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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 13, 2013 16:28:15 GMT -7
I don't want to be negative but I do need some reality at times, is there a chance at 8 weeks there may be no change or progress?? Is it possible for them to decline? I have been reading some stories that give me hope.
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 13, 2013 17:06:28 GMT -7
Hi Michele! The goal of the 8 weeks on crate rest is for Sherm to have built up secure enough scar tissue to protect his disc(s). Neurologically, Sherm's body doesn't have any "time limit" for healing. "Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms... There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer." www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmIf you see a decline in neuro function, that's a situation in which you call the vet asap, because it could mean the current disc has worsened, or there could be a problem with another disc. Here is a great sign to print and put on your fridge so that you know what situations would need vet attention asap: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdfAfter all that - right now Sherm should be 100% pain free, and not losing any ground neurologically. "True success with IVDD is measured by the most important goal of returning your dog to a pain free, happy and full-of-love quality of life after crate rest. Should paralysis occur, please know that dogs do not view the lack of ability to walk as a minus as humans do. Dogs adjust to what is and then get on with the business of fully enjoying all that life has to offer until nerves repair!" www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmneurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Is Sherm showing any signs of pain? ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 14, 2013 13:19:37 GMT -7
Thank you Sabrina. I can't wait to go to the vet tomorrow. Sherm has devolved some weird rash on his belly, around his penis and his thigh. Its theses red circles with white middles. He has never had any issues in the 8 years I had him until now. They don't seem to itch him or cause discomfort. Not sure what is going on or if possibly a side effect of prednisone? I guess we will see tomorrow.
Also, today is our start to wean off prednisone to one pill a day for seven days.
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 14, 2013 21:37:27 GMT -7
Not a good day today and we still have vet appointment Friday. I believe Sherm has developed a UTI. He is constantly wetting himself tonight three times and on his pad there seemed to be a small dark spot. He also has increased mucus he sneezes out and has no attempts to want to go to bathroom but when I pick him up to go back inside he urinates all over. And this weird looking rash on his belly is getting worse. I'm sad as I feel he is declining. So scared and worried.
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Sabrina
Helpful Member
My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 14, 2013 22:09:29 GMT -7
Hi Michele, I'm so sorry to hear of Sherm's symptoms.
Please call whoever's on call at your vet, and discuss all of this with them, so that the on-call vet can advise you as to whether this can wait until the morning. I don't have any medical training myself, but I know that worsening symptoms, especially with multiple symptoms, have me dialing the on-call number for our vet.
When you can, let us know what the vet says. ))Hugs!(( - Sabrina
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Nov 15, 2013 6:38:24 GMT -7
Just popping in to see how Sherm is today. Hoping he is feeling ok and you are getting to the vet today. ((HUGS))
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 15, 2013 8:48:51 GMT -7
Thank you both! Can't wait for our appoitment. I feel inside that things are not feeling positive. He is showing all signs from the link Sabrina sent me of an infection and worsening condition. wish they could talk! But we know inside how they feel And he isn't well. I'm going to continue to give him the best love and comfort I can. I work all weekend but I have a wonderful brother who will be caring for him while I am away. Will update after vet appointment.
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 15, 2013 20:18:03 GMT -7
UPDATE!! Ok so it's been a long night! Vet agrees Sherm has went backwards a little but he still has deep pain sensation . He also has a UTI. I was taught how to express him tonight since he was having some difficulty with that and continues to wet bed. Also the rash and sores are urine scolding from all his irinating the past two days from when I was at work. I was suggested to use desitin and wash him with antibacterial soap when it happens again. As for his meds... We continue on: Prednisone 5mg 2 x's a day. Tramadol 50mg 1-3 x's a day 1/2 a pill, Methocarbamol 500mg 1/4 a pill 3 x's a day, since he is exhibiting pain again. For the UTI: Simplicef 100mg 1/2 a pill once a day( I have 7 pills). Since I explained to her surgery is not an option, she introduced me to laser treatments and that they may or may not help but it sure is worth the try. So he had his first session tonight. My Vet is so wonderful, realistic and hopeful. Glad we are in good hands!
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 15, 2013 22:04:30 GMT -7
Hi Michele,
Glad the vet appointment went well and Sherm is back on medications for pain and for the UTI. Glad you had an expressing lesson as well. Hope he feels better very soon.. Thank you for keeping us posted.. Laser treatments can be very beneficial for kick starting the nerves to regenerate.
How is Sherm doing now that he is back on his pain medications.. hope the Pepcid AC is back on board 30 minutes prior to the Prednisone..
Sending soothing thoughts your way..
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 16, 2013 15:57:28 GMT -7
Yes I have been using Pepcid ac from day 1. Today I came home from work and his was soaked again. Took him outside and he starts to go and I apply pressure to keep it going. Also Gave him a mini bath because he gets very messy and he is a long hair Doxie. Desitin is doing wonders as his sores are clearing up. This is lots of work! Spent an hour and 15 mins cleaning him and potty. But he's my baby and I'm dedicated! Today he seems ok, I think having pain med and muscle relaxer back he seems to do better. When we went outside to potty he tried running from me dragging his behind like he had tons of energy! One day at a time! Go back for second laser session Monday night. Oh by the way I told my vet about this site and she never heard, I explained how helpful it has been and the purpose of this site. Spreading the word!
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StevieLuv
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Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 16, 2013 17:18:07 GMT -7
Many members have had great success with using green tea to clean up after a potty accident. Brew a pot of green tea and let it cool. You can wipe down his skin with it - it will neutralize the urine and prevent, as well as help clear up urine scald. Beware of creams with zinc - they can be toxid if he licks it off of his skin. Hope that the UTI is taken care of quickly and that he feels better soon!
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 17, 2013 5:50:59 GMT -7
I am really having a tough time with his urination. Wake up he peed himself then I clean him put him back in and he does it again so I cleaned him again and then he does it again! Does this mean he is losing control? He will go outside but then he just wets himself again. Tried to express but I am having a tough time getting anything out.
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StevieLuv
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 17, 2013 9:29:40 GMT -7
As discouraging as this is right now, it isn't uncommon when there is a UTI. If you have ever had a bladder infection you will remember how going pee just made it feel way worse for a bit - causing straining and the desire to urinate even more. That is from the irritation of the bladder and urethra caused by the infection. As the antibiotics kick in this should clear up - it can be hard to express for that reason too - everything is irritated - and it can also indicate returning bladder control. Hopefully he will start to feel better soon - hang in there!! (((hugs)))
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 17, 2013 9:39:37 GMT -7
Is this still the current med list? How often are you actually giving tramadol? 17 lbs Prednisone 5mg 2 x's a day. Tramadol 50mg: 25mgs 1-3 x's a day Methocarbamol 500mg: 125mg 3 x's a day Simplicef 100mg 1/2 a pill 1x day til 11/21 Pepcid AC ?mg's ? x/day? Michele put on your detective hat and let's see what conclusions you come up with. 1. Can he pee on his own or not? ---Bladder control is determined by being able to pass the sniff and pee test. So can Sherm sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then choose to release urine? A dog with bladder control might also show he can lower his body, try to lift a leg before releasing urine. ---Loss of bladder control is indicated when a dog leaks when being lifted or finding urine leaks in bedding.
2. Is his bladder given a chance to void often enough? ---While on pred dogs are thirstier and need to relieve themselves every 3-4 hours IF they have control. IF the do not have control then they would need to be expressed every 2-3 hours
Expressing is a new skill to learn, expect you will have to go back for another lesson where you express in the vet's office and have the vet tech check your work, give extra tips, etc. The goal is to be able to actually feel the bladder with your hands. At the last stage of emptying it will be so flat that you can almost feel the fingers of your other hand. Can you discern the shape of the bladder? Have you re-reviewed this expressing video/information: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm
Be aware that a shotgun approach to killing bacteria is often first tried in hopes a broad spectrum antibiotic will target the culprit causing the UTI. Simplicef may or may not be the right antibiotic. IF is is not, then the bacteria are still continuing to breed and symptoms are remain the same. At the end of the course 11/21, a urinalysis is a good idea to see if infection is still present. If it is, a urine culture would be a good idea. With a culture the bacteria are grown in a couple of days so they can be identified and the right match antibiotic can be prescribed.
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 21, 2013 7:54:55 GMT -7
UPDATE! Sherm is doing extremely well! We have done three laser treatments so far and three more left and he has improved significantly since last week. He has not wet the bed in four days. He has regular bowel movements. His sores from urine scolding from wetting the bed has disappeared. His excessive drinking has stopped. When we go to the bathroom he starts to pull himself up. His body is no longer tense and appearing painful. And he's now anxious and wants to get out of his crate but I give him a bone to relax. I am very impressed with the laser treatments, that are inexpensive at my vet. I am feeling so positive and hopeful! He appears himself again. We still continue on crate rest (day 18 today!), still has a couple doses of the antibiotic. I give one dose of tramadol in the morning and he seems to not need it anymore throughout the day. Also, give methocarbamol once daily now with the tramadol. I also ordered a rear end harness at a reasonable price, since I did not make a good one, it seemed to hurt him. I give pep talks everyday!
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Nov 21, 2013 8:25:48 GMT -7
Sounds like Sherm is doing well. Yay for peeing on his own!!! and double yay for no pain!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 21, 2013 9:32:46 GMT -7
He is making wonderful progress - well done!!
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 26, 2013 5:51:42 GMT -7
Sherm is still doing amazing! No signs of pain. The sling I bought doesn't suit his body, so I made my own and its perfect! Just finished a round of 6 laser therapy treatments and waiting for follow up appointment with vet. Still continues on prednisone 2x a day. Pain meds on hand if needed. Urinating and bowel movements back to normal schedule, no accidents. At week four of crate rest. Thank you all for the support. Will continue to keep posted!! He is my little fighter!!
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Nov 26, 2013 6:30:42 GMT -7
Go Sherm!!! Sounds like he is doing awesome. My Mimi had to be on her steroid for longer than two weeks too. Seems like it happens (((HUGS)))
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 26, 2013 12:04:12 GMT -7
Great update! Can you tell us about the sling that you made? We are always looking for ways to help and you may have invented something that will really help someone else
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 27, 2013 13:30:24 GMT -7
Sure!! Since I was so disappointed spending $30 on a sling that didn't fit his body. I was determined. I actually made the figure 8 using the expanding part of a fitted bed sheet. So it gives some flexibility. Then I just used the regular part of the sheet for the handlse. It works perfect for him!! I did not have good success with a scarf as it seemed to hurt his pee pee area, I think putting too much pressure. Not sure how to post pictures but I could attempt to post a picture of it.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 27, 2013 14:51:02 GMT -7
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 29, 2013 9:45:29 GMT -7
Maybe I spoke too soon. Not sure what is happening but the two weeks we did laser therapy Sherm seemed to be doing so great. The past two days he appears to be back in pain with the tense stomach. I can't understand. Is it normal for them to just continue to be in pain and have to have meds? How long can they take these pain meds for? He still is on two doses a day of steroids since 11/4. I didn't give pain meds for 3 days he seemed so great. Then yesturday and today I gave him tramadol and methocarbamol because he has the tense tummy. Every day is a roller coaster:(. Is it possible that some dogs will always have pain?
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 29, 2013 13:23:34 GMT -7
Michele, sometimes the swelling in the spine goes down in a week or two - sometimes it takes a month or more. Pain = swelling = more time on steroid and pain meds. Keep Sherm on the Tramadol and Methocarbamol 3 times a day, even if he does seem to be feeling better. You want to consistently keep the pain under control. At some point, your vet will want to try a taper of the steroid. A taper of the steroid is done as a test to see if the swelling is down. At that time, the pain meds are also tapered or stopped so an accurate test can be made. Until that time, please keep him on all of the meds even if he's feeling better.
In looking back in the postings, I don't see confirmation that you have Sherm on Pepcid AC. Please confirm that you have added 5 mg of Pepcid AC 30 minutes before the steroid and every 12 hours thereafter to protect his tummy from the side effects of the steroid.
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 29, 2013 20:01:01 GMT -7
He gets Pepcid regularly for the past 27 days, along with the meds. There may have only been a day or two where pain med was not needed but for the most part his meds are the same since day 1. He showed great improvement with laser treatments we did six sessions and they ended this week and he seems to have declined again. Not sure what else there is too do but I guess time. He had one good week and he just seems to decline again. He is always in the crate no exceptions but potty time where he has no ambition to want to go outside. It's a roller coaster that seems to keep going backwards.
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 29, 2013 22:20:46 GMT -7
Sounds like the Laser treatments were working great for him. Is there any way those could be continued?
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 30, 2013 19:10:27 GMT -7
It's a really bad night. How am I suppose to know if it's time for him to go to heaven yet? He was getting better then he gets worse again. Peeing all over. I have to keep bathing him and I think it's hurting him I have to clean him so much. He's tense and I'm wondering if he has a uti again cause the peeing himself started again today. I can't call vet til Monday and I know what an ervet will say. He looks exhausted and it's been a month
That probably came out really wrong and I needed to vent. I'm so overwhelmed and he just looks so sad. He's in pain and nothing seems to help. What do you do then? I don't know what else to do?
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Sabrina
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My Charley-dog, a Dodger'sList grad enjoying life!
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Post by Sabrina on Nov 30, 2013 20:24:35 GMT -7
Hi Michele, I'm so sorry to hear of Sherm's pain and possible uti. I can imagine how hard this is for you! ))Hugs!((
Has Sherm been consistently on his 3x/day doses of Tramadol and Methocarbamol? If so, and he's still in pain, ask the ER vet to work with you to adjust the doses and/or discuss adding Gabapentin to the mix.
Also, I would have the ER vet do a urinalysis, so if Sherm does have a uti treatment can start asap. If there is still an infection, then I would also ask them to get started on a urine culture (which takes a few days) to figure out what antibiotic Sherm needs to get rid of the infection.
With the right doses/combo of pain meds so that he's pain-free dose to dose, and treatment for the uti (if that's what it is), then Sherm's body can get back to working on his recovery from this disc episode.
))Hugs!(( - Sabrina
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Post by Michele & Sherm on Nov 30, 2013 20:43:07 GMT -7
I keep thinking its a uti cause his penis comes out and stays out, he goes to pee a little them moves a step pees a little more and repeats the same thing. Not sure if that's signs but seemed like it to me. I just gave him another tramadol last does I gave him was 4 hours ago or that and methocarbamol. This is so stressful. And I know he's not enjoying it one bit. This dog always was hyper active and now he can't do anything. What happens when pain meds don't help anymore?
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 30, 2013 20:59:43 GMT -7
Please don't wait until Monday to get a urinalysis done, Michele. As Sabrina said, have an ER vet do a urinalysis to determine if Sherm has a UTI and discuss Sherm's pain with the ER vet. Please don't increase his meds without a physician's direction. The correct mix of meds needs to be determined by a vet. Adding Gabapentin is an option that needs to be discussed with a vet. Sometimes it take all three pain meds to get the pain under control.
I know this is all very stressful. But Sherm was at a good place just a short while ago and he can get to that good place again. It's just a matter of getting the right meds on board. So please hang in there.
Let us know what the ER vet says.
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