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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 14, 2013 9:17:45 GMT -7
Just a few questions today:
1. Kobe has always travelled with me (loves "car ride") and I have to go out-of-town next week. Before we began strict crate rest but after his episode, he did travel and seemed to do well. The vet prescribed a mild sedative for the trip which he has never needed before but to keep him extra-calm this time. I really can't afford to board him and maybe he would be happier with me. Any wisdom on this issue?
2. The crate I'm using is pretty small. I'd like to try some "find-it" activities or puzzles while he's crated but can't really get down to his level very well to work with him. Would a larger crate for these activities be acceptable? He's turning up his nose at his food and I'm afraid it's because I've given him edible treats and his kibble isn't "good enough" now. He really seems to need some mental stimulation.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 14, 2013 13:30:37 GMT -7
Sally, in looking back through the postings, I don't see where Pepcid AC was ever added. Turning his nose up at his food could be a sign of a GI tract problem from the side effects of the anti-inflammatory. If he hasn't been on the Pepcid AC, please get your vet's permission to give 5 mg of Pepcid AC (generic is famotidine) 30 minutes before each dose of the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours). Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep him from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board. You should also ask the vet to prescribe a second stomach protector, Sucralfate, which works in a different way. This can be a serious problem so it's best not to assume his not eating his usual kibble is because of the edible treats. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms.
Please only give him his usual kibble and not too many treats. He's inactive and dogs on crate rest can easily put on weight, which is bad for their backs. He also needs his regular diet and nutrition as his body has a lot of repair work to do.
As for traveling with a dog during an IVDD episode, it would really be best if you could work out something at home. Possibly someone could come in during the day to check on him. Maureen had just mentioned recently that there are a lot of AHTs ( Vet Techs) that house and pet sit - check with your local Vet, maybe they have staff that are willing to come and stay. How far would you be traveling and for how long? Would you be in one place while you were away?
Also, it's best not to get a larger crate just for activities. The crate acts as a cast for his back and you don't want him to have too much room to move around. Only enough room for him to stand up, turn around and lie down with his legs extended comfortably. As for activities, what he needs is rest. The calming music that Pauliana suggested would be better than mental stimulation. I know that crate rest can be difficult but time does pass and it is what they need to heal the disc.
All the best to you and Kobe.
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 14, 2013 15:35:33 GMT -7
Sorry about that- he is and has been on a vet-recommended Pepcid product. I discovered that he wants to eat, just not in the soft-side crate. In fact, he doesn't like that crate at all and seems calmer in his small wire crate. I've learned some things about him in this process: he seems to prefer being in another room in his regular crate. As far as travel, I have to carry him down a flight of stairs to potty here at home and am really hesitant to bring someone in to do that. The trip is Monday afternoon to Wednesday morning. He stays in his crate in the hotel the whole time except to potty. I really can't afford boarding and an really nervous about what would be involved for someone to care for him here. I am nervous enough carrying him myself and would hate for someone else to trip/fall while carrying him.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 15, 2013 5:07:01 GMT -7
I'm sure you know all of this Sally, but if you do decide to travel with him, be sure to pad his crate well so he doesn't move around too much. And you'll need to drive with very slow starts and stops so he doesn't fall in the crate. Check out the area where you're going to find out where the nearest vet ER hospital is in case of any problems while you're away. And be sure you have enough medication with you. I'll be praying for a safe journey for you and Kobe.
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 15, 2013 7:34:36 GMT -7
Thanks, Marjorie. He has always laid down in the seat immediately (calmer than he has been on crate rest) and is very good in his crate "on the road". The vet is giving him a mild sedative just to keep him extra-calm. Good idea about the ER. I am nervous about either way. The ultimate best would be boarding but I simply cannot afford right now.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 15, 2013 9:43:03 GMT -7
I had to travel with Stevie too - and I was stressed out too. The trip went fine, she did great! One other tip that I got from the Vet was to take a copy of her medical records with me, so that if there was an emergency the new Vet in the city we were visiting would have all of her info right to hand. Safe travels
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 18, 2013 18:31:46 GMT -7
We made it to Pittsburgh. Kobe is mad about being right back in the crate. He usually explores and runs down hotel halls. Please remind me that recovery happens in fits and starts. He seemed more wobbly yesterday and today. Please remind me we'll get through this.
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 18, 2013 22:32:31 GMT -7
Hi Sally, glad you and Kobe made it safely to Pittsburgh. You and Kobe will make it through his recovery and you are taking great care of him. I know how traumatic all of this is, having taken care of our Tyler through out his episode.. Yes there is a light at the end of the tunnel, you two will get through it.
Hugs and soothing throughts and prayers..
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Nov 19, 2013 9:23:44 GMT -7
That is so great that the trip went smoothly. I know he hates being crated, but you will get through it. The first weeks were REALLY hard...I totally get it. Hang in there.
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 19, 2013 17:00:25 GMT -7
Thanks all! I feel the hugs and need them more than you'll ever know. I send them to you as well. I couldn't do this without you.
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 23, 2013 9:44:51 GMT -7
Just need some more hand-holding. Kobe isn't knuckling as much and even held a chew stick with both paws yesterday. However, I'm still having logistics issues. I have to juggle a rigged-together ramp when taking him outside; he "escaped" and went running down the hall before I was ready to put his halter on him. Also, that little lip at the bottom of the door on both crates still creates real problems. He either hops over it (which is what set this episode off in the first place) or his hair gets tangled in it. Neither crate is large enough for me to left him into directly and completely or place a ramp up and over the lip. If I try to lift him into them, he ends up almost doing a header. I've tried to keep him in a crate in the same room with me but he barks and cries more than when I have his crate in another room. I may truly have mental health issues but my thoughts have turned gloomy: he's scheduled for a teeth cleaning on Monday and I think "what's the point - he'll never be able to be outside his crate or play again". Any hugs would be appreciated.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 23, 2013 13:38:42 GMT -7
Sally, I would hold off on that teeth cleaning until after Kobe's back has healed. Anesthesia causes risks for any IVDD dog, especially one having a disc episode. The core muscles all relax while under anesthesia. Please read this article: dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/precautions.htmlI'm not quite sure why you're using a ramp when taking him outside. He needs to be carried in and out to do his business. Possibly you could take his crate into a small room, like a bathroom, and get his harness on in there so if he does get away from you, he won't be able to move around too much. Here's the proper way to lift and carry an IVDD dog. If you pick him up like that, you should be able to lower him into the crate safely. Here are some good tips on getting Kobe calm in the crate: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmThat's very good that Kobe isn't knuckling as much. Please don't get discouraged. Crate rest will be over and he'll be back to a more normal life. And he most definitely will be able to play - just no rough housing. Keep your thoughts positive and tell Kobe every day that he's getting better - and you believe it, too!
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 23, 2013 18:56:53 GMT -7
I use the ramp to get Kobe over the lip on the crate. Once he's out, I carry him as illustrated in the video. One crate doesn't open from the top and the other has a top opening too small to lower him through. He has to enter the crate from the front and the 2" lip I'm referring to makes it very difficult for me to ease him into the crate. And I really am confused about the teeth cleaning: the OSU vet said to proceed as did his regular vet because of the health risks associated with his gum disease.
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 23, 2013 20:28:53 GMT -7
Sally,
Many Vets are pushing yearly dental cleanings when it isn't necessary.. Marjorie is right, a dog in conservative treatment for IVDD does not need to be put through the dangers of anesthesia during an episode because the core muscles relax and his discs would not be protected.. The only reason to put an IVDD dog through anesthesia would be for disc surgery.. I would put off the cleaning for now.. When he has recovered and has had time to settle into his new life after crate rest would be a better time.. His recovery from his disc episode should take center stage for now..
Sending lots of Hugs!
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 23, 2013 21:15:35 GMT -7
I'd rather follow crate rest protocol than risk anything. When we say "new life" I get worried. Kobe and I never roughhoused really but he loved to run/fetch his Kong. Is it possible we could ever do that again?
I'm just in such a blue sad mood about my boy. I blame myself for all of this because I tripped over him which I think kicked the whole episode off. I feel like I've destroyed his life and it won't ever be better.
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 23, 2013 21:42:10 GMT -7
Your Kobe can still have a fun life after his recovery.. Tyler and I take long walks that he worked up to gradually after his crate rest graduation. We have hard wood floors so we put out carpet runners and carpet pieces all over so he wouldn't slip and slide when playing. We don't allow stairs or jumping but he does run now and he has fun playing with his toys.. He knows to wait for help if he wants to go outside or go up or down stairs. We spent a lot of time in training him on what he can and can't do and he just seems to know. It's been 9 months since his surgery and 4 months since his mild episode in July.. Here is a great article that tells how to ease back into life after crate rest.. We followed this to the letter.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm They know to take life a moment at a time and enjoy it for all it has to offer. They know that the very best meal of the day is the one they’re eating right now. Perhaps we humans should look at life a little more like a dog does? A fun and loving quality of life is in the future for your IVDD dog!!
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Nov 24, 2013 1:23:41 GMT -7
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 25, 2013 16:53:20 GMT -7
I found a top open soft-side crate rather than try to deconstruct Kobe's metal ones. I'm not handy and would've had to buy the tools. I put the plastic pan from the wire crate in it. Still struggling to get him out but can lift in. The issue now is that Kobe's redeveloping some behavioral issues I haven't seen since I rescued him- food aggression, etc. He has been an exceptionally active dog and 3 weeks of crate rest boredom seems to be causing him some regression behaviorally. I get mixed messages: find some in-crate activities/no activity at all. He barks if he's in the same room with me. What do I do to help this poor dog feel less bored and not regress to the always caged rescue he was?
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 25, 2013 18:01:34 GMT -7
Sally, my Jeremy is also a rescue dog and he had so many behavioral issues when I adopted him. I had just gotten him to a good place in life when he went down with his first disc episode. He had surgery and completely regressed. He was so aggressive in the hospital that they had to send him home because he was causing himself more harm than good there. And then he had problems while on crate rest. But once his back healed, he lost the aggression and mellowed out once again. Then he went down a second time and we did conservative care. I think he had learned from his first episode that the crate was a safe place to be and he was much better in there the second time around. Now he loves his crate and has no problem being in it. I did share this link with you before but you may not have had a chance to read it with so much going on. There are very good tips in there on calming a dog down while on crate rest. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmTo calm Kobe in the crate, it would be a good idea to cover the top with a towel. That should discourage the desire to stand up on his hind legs and should mellow him. It also creates a den like feeling that dogs love.. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog. Hope this helps!
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 25, 2013 18:18:06 GMT -7
Thank you again, Marjorie. You did send the info and I reread. I need you all so much. I worry about Kobe day and night, he's all I think about. I know my husband and friends are trying to be patient with me but I've never dealt with this situation before and love my boy so much. I'm on the road toward crazy-town but without you all, I'd be WAY around the bend!
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Post by Pauliana on Nov 25, 2013 20:16:31 GMT -7
Totally understand Sally.. When IVDD first happened to Tyler, I was in just as worried and focused on him as you are with Kobe. We got through it thanks to help from Dodgerslist but it wasn't an easy time to be sure..
I hope the new crate works out better for you and Kobe.. We bought a Comfort Zone pheromone diffuser for cats to keep our rough housing kittens calm during the night and it worked very well. As Marjorie mentioned once off crate rest Kobe's personality should go back to normal but in the meantime if he makes noise while you are in the room with him walk away but give him lavish praise when he is quiet, once he realizes he gets the praise and attention he wants when he is quiet that should break him of whining and barking when you are in the room.. Dogs and other animals have a way of training us to do what they want.. It is up to us to do the reverse and train them to behave the way they should.
Sending hugs and soothing thoughts..
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Nov 25, 2013 21:38:04 GMT -7
Hi Sally and Kobe, I haven't posted in awhile but reading your thread thought I would share a little and give you some hand holding My baby Fred went down a while back..while it was mild and he could still walk we opted for the 8 weeks. It was ROUGH!! Like you, Fred went everywhere with me..seriously lol..so the seperation was aweful.. barking, stomping, crying and even growling was nonstop. Here is what helped us throught it.. We put his crate on a Ryder wagon..this allowed me to move him about the house..it was also bed level so at night he was right up against the bed about 2 feet from his usual spot on the bed. I would put my hand in his crate to try to give him snuggles and comfort..we also covered the crate at night with a blanket Now..this next one is huge..potty pen..potty pen potty pen..had major anxiety during potty time until we did this. It cost about 30.00 got little garden rails from home depot.. this kept him from pulling on leash and didn't allow him to walk much at all. Lastly..when all else fails ..hide..lol Fred went nuts when I was in the room and he was crated..i felt bad but he needed to stay calm. So..I got Netflix on my phone and hid in the bathroom, garage and lanai.. Now about Kobe's moral..Fred went back down again about 3 weeks after he finished his 8 weeks. He had to go back in..while I caught some slack that I was being mean..I dug.my heals in and stuck with 8 more weeks..they were bad..very bad..hence me not posting for awhile..it was too hard if that makes sense.. I thought Fred hated me..got to the point where he was distant..looked sad and basically just stopped barking..kind of giving up. I really thought I lost my Fred's love and personallity. I was wrong..it took a while for Fred to come around but he did..I get all the kisses I used and twice as much snuggles because we know how precious they are You and Kobe will be ok it is just a very hard time for you both but you will get through this and before you know it he will have his old personality back. So hang in there, stay strong..you got this and are not alone Sorry for the long post..ilol..but sending you warm and comforting wishes across the net
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 26, 2013 5:20:57 GMT -7
Stacy, your post means so much to me. Very reassuring and helpful! I have to trust the process and reread your post a lot!
I DID IT! I converted one of Kobe's crates into a top entry one! AND I got a furniture dolly that the crate fits perfectly on! I still have a little trouble getting him out safely but better. Thank you all so much! It was easy and I'm going to do the other one!
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Nov 30, 2013 11:04:26 GMT -7
Healing is sometimes slow...Fred still has those days..but he continues to show progress..been walking him almost everynight..except on those days when he is not up to it. He made it all the way around the block the other night Our new "norm" isn't as bad as what I feared. I do spend more time with him on the floor and have our couch area blocked off. Our king size bed now looks like a giant crib LOL. We put bed guards around it so he has to use the ramp. Hang in there and don't let those not so great days get you down..eventually there will be less and less of them
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Nov 30, 2013 21:12:55 GMT -7
Thanks, Stacy! I did find kind of a cool thing: I borrowed one of those furniture dollies that are basically 4 pieces of wood, rubber/carpet on the ends and 4 wheels. Kobe's crate sits perfectly snugly between the rubber pieces and I .can "change his scenery" more often. It feels like I'm wheeling a tiny, fuzzy Emperor around the house. My greatest wish is that he would stay calm when we're in the same room. I've used a diffuser, calming spray, chew bones and pleading to no avail so he spends more time alone in another room but settles right down. I am so grateful for your posts!
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Dec 1, 2013 9:18:49 GMT -7
Panic again. Kobe has been very restless today and was shivering earlier ( that has subsided). He was very thirsty and needed a potty trip early. I gave him a small dose of sedative earlier and he's calm for now. My concern is the brief shivering and he seemed to stumble a little more than yesterday or Friday. While he's not knuckling all the time as before, it increased . He's eating voraciously and completely, pottying with no apparent problem and his nose is wet but that panic started up again. Does healing plateau sometimes or happen in "fits and starts"? He seemed to step awkwardly on a twig this morning and I'm afraid he's totally reinjured. Also, I start to wonder if he has a broken leg/ dislocated shoulder- it seems "loose" and splays out sometimes. The only time he's ever cried was the very first day he was injured (not the crate jump he went down on 10 days later). I've modified crates, borrowed a furniture dolly ,haven't held him other than to go outside and don't sleep with him. He 's on pepcid and is at the end of a month of Metacam. I give him .12mg alprazolam PRN. What am I doing wrong? The stumble over a twig? I can't afford an X-ray immediately and have spent nearly $200 on all of the above. I am afraid it's all been for nothing and if he's not going to get better, why not hold and cuddle him? I desperately need more hand holding
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
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Post by StevieLuv on Dec 1, 2013 9:34:55 GMT -7
Hi Sally, We all panic when our dogs do anything that even faintly resembles a setback. He had one bout of shivering and you are right to keep an eye on him to see if it repeats. Try not to panic (easier said than done, I know). The one leg/joint that seems to be loose is one where the nerve damage is more apparent and will take longer to heal. Stevie was injured on Jan 26 and her left hind leg sometimes moves like it is attached to loosley (for lack of a better description) and will splay out or collapse. She just gets up and keeps on going His leg would be hideously painful if it was broken or dislocated, you would know that something was very wrong, so put that worry aside. It is easier for them to stumble over things because their nerves aren't responding properly, these things heal with time. Stevie is blind, so that made her trip even more often. We do the best we can. You are doing a great job with Kobe, don't ever doubt it. We all have days where we need a shoulder to lean on, and that's what Dodgers List is all about. Keep an eye on the shivering, see if it repeats, and keep on doing what you have been. Taking great care of Kobe
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Dec 1, 2013 10:48:16 GMT -7
Oh how I need you. When I calm down a minute, I remember him shivering at the vets one time and she said he wanted to get down and smell everything- excited -and indeed the shivering stopped. He's always been a pretty fearless and enthusiastic explorer and not being able to do that with such delicious smells around has to be frustrating. Thank you for calming me down enough to think a little more clearly. I will of course watch for shivering but it's not without a benign precedent. You and Stevie are such inspirations. Not everyone in my life understands my absolute devotion to Kobe but you all do. I feel safe here and because of that, I can be there more fully for him. Thank you!
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Post by Stacy & Fred on Dec 4, 2013 22:28:12 GMT -7
Hey sally..sorry I missed your posts..how is Kobe? Anymore shivering? Hang in there and stick with the crate rest. No snuggle time stinks bad!! Especially when they are not feeling well. Once we got the potty time under control it became my favorite time. Got to hold him for a couple of seconds. Every now and then Fred's little limp will come back..but it doesn't stay and it seems weather related but that panic comes back every time..eck..scary.. You're doing great. Emperor Kobe is lucky to have you for a mom Let us know how that leg is doing..sending both you and Kobe warm healing wishes and prayers across the net.
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Post by Sally & Kobe on Dec 5, 2013 12:48:50 GMT -7
Hi Stacy - thanks for your note! His Majesty is only shivering when I carry him outside and his head is in the air sniffing like crazy! I do enjoy schnoozle-ing him during potty breaks. I hope I am doing OK - no bed-sleeping, no lap/couch-cuddling, etc. but I worry I let him walk too much at potty time and that I let him move too much when putting his halter on. Otherwise he is in his crate 24-7. He doesn't potty on command and now doesn't seem to be a good time to train him to! I worry that I haven't been totally strict enough. He is stumbling quite a bit (although knuckling still seems improved) but no pain, potty-ing with no problem, etc. I do bow down to his Royal Highness daily! He seems to be getting more restless/bored: crying and barking more, etc. I'm glad Fred is doing well but I sure know what you mean about the scary part. Thanks so, so much!
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