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Post by robin11234 on Oct 14, 2013 17:56:42 GMT -7
My 5 yr old doxie lost the use of her back legs today. The vet put her on carprofen and tramadol w strict cage test. Shouldn't she be in prednisone? And if she doesn't regain the use if her legs, how can I get a cart for her??
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 14, 2013 18:55:47 GMT -7
Robin, welcome to Dodgerslist. What is your doxie's name? Did you vet think it was a disc problem. There are two class of anti-inflammatories. And they should have a washout of 4-7 days before switching from the NsAID, Carprofen, to a steroid. When there is neuro loss most vets will choose the strongest class…the steroids. A blood test should be given with either to know the health of organs. Did she get one? Is her pain fully controlled with tramadol alone… no shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? How much does she weigh? -- Are you ding the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty …. to include no laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? -- What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. -- Currently can your dog wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? -- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? -- Eating and drinking OK? -- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood? -- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.htmlIs surgery a consideration for your family? Education is a critical element to know this enemy, how to care and monitor your dog while on meds. All this and more has been compiled and waiting your checking it out: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htmIt is way too soon to even think about a cart. Right now the focus for the next 8 weeks is to let the disc heal. One step at at time. We look forward to learning more about your girl. |
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 14, 2013 20:10:40 GMT -7
Her name is Déjà. She us 9.5#, just a smidge overweight. We did not do ex rays as the vet thought her symptoms were classic disc problems. I am a vet tech for about 10 yrs now, and the hospital I work at now I've only been at since April. I'm not used to these drs when it comes to my own pet, so I seek as much advice as i can. I've seen this happen to a number of dogs and it's just different when it's my own!
The tramadol is 10 mg 2-3 times a day, the carprofen is 25 mg 1/2 BID. She is shaking some. She cannot stand at all. She does not want to go potty. Her poop is normal as if this morning
It breaks my heart to see her like this.
She is strictly in her kennel. She will be coming w me to work to continue the strict rest
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 14, 2013 21:18:31 GMT -7
Hi Robin, welcome to Dodgerslist. So sorry to hear that Deja lost the use of her back legs today.. I woke up on January 28th to the same discovery with my Tyler. I know just what you are going through.. Deja is so lucky to be in your capable hands with your experience as a Vet Tech. I know it's different when it's your own dog though.. I know all those emotions having gone through it. By the way Tyler is doing great now. He is enjoying his careful new normal and after 8 weeks of crate rest your Deja will enjoy her careful new normal too If she doesn't want to pee, it is likely because she has lost bladder control. I am sure you know how to express but here is our page on the subject: Helpful videos with tips on expressing both urine and poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmTramadol is more effective at 3 times a day because of it's short half life of 1.7 hours.. if she is still in pain, her pain medications need adjusted. Ask if the Tramadol dosage can be increased. Gabapentin for nerve pain or hard to control pain and Methocarbamol for muscle spasms are two drugs that work well with Tramadol that are commonly prescribed for IVDD.. The important thing right now is making sure she is out of pain, because pain deters healing.. Top Priority! Pepcid AC needs to be on board to protect her stomach from the Carprofen. Here is our literature page that has lots of information about IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmWelcome aboard and please do keep us posted on how Deja is doing.. |
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 15, 2013 1:41:21 GMT -7
Ugh it's 3 am and no change!!
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 15, 2013 5:41:59 GMT -7
Hi, I am not a moderator just another mom of a sweet doxie going through this. Sorry you have to go through it too. You may want to talk to your doctors about increasing her Tramadol and perhaps adding Gabapentin for the pain. My Mimi is only 2lbs more than your sweetie and her Tramadol is 25mg 3x per day and Gabapentin 40mg 2x a day. I know the moderators feel strongly about having no tolerance for pain, so maybe talk to your vet. So hard to see your own baby suffering. |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 15, 2013 5:46:13 GMT -7
I'm so sorry you had a difficult night, Robin. Shaking is a sign of pain. If Deja is still in pain today, please contact your vet to increase the Tramadol and to possibly add Gabapentin and Methocarbamol. And be sure to add the Pepcid AC. The main thing, as Pauliana said, is to get Deja's pain under control. Once the right mix of medication is found, she can then continue her crate rest and heal in comfort. Don't worry about not seeing any improvements in her leg movement yet - that can take weeks or months to improve.
Please update us today and let us know what her vet says about adjusting the medications for pain.
Blessings to you both.
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 15, 2013 10:33:56 GMT -7
Thanks! Her ▲ tramadol is increased to 20mg tid. She waged her tail! We also added 25 mg of trazadone bid
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 15, 2013 12:18:28 GMT -7
Robin, I am a bit concerned her GI tract is not being protected. Is there a reason Pepcid AC (famotidine) is not being used?
9.5 lbs
tramadol 20 mg 3 times a day
carprofen 25 mg 1/2 BID
trazadone 25 mg of 2x day
Pepcid AC ???
Was she being rambuctious in her recovery suite and thus the Trazadone?
Know there are still pain meds that are typically used with IVDD for good pain control (methocarbamol and gabapentin) so you vet still has more options if you see Tramadol 20mgs 3x a day is not giving full dose to dose pain relief. Let us know what you observe.
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Post by twosmooches on Oct 15, 2013 18:20:21 GMT -7
Oh Robin.... so sorry it's rough for you both. I am not a moderator but,I feel your pain for sure. I had almost a week of misery for both me and my Detour before we got as far as you are already. Today is the first really good day we have had at our house. You hang in there because from what I read, the pups get thru it. Good pain control, anti-inflammatory therapy(steroids),and absolute strict crate rest seem to be the high points.
Whether they walk again is really moot....even the ones that do'nt get their mobility back seem to live wonderful quality lives. Don't give up!!!!! I envy your expertise - Deja is lucky indeed to have an advocate like you!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 15, 2013 18:48:06 GMT -7
Thank you twismooches! And good luck to u!
I did start the famitadine as well. Deja always has food in her tummy before giving the carprofen, but I can't be too careful!!
She was a little restless in her kennel at work today and the trazadone helped a lot!
Famitadine 5mb bid
This forum has been very helpful! Thank you all for the kind words and concern!!
I am hopeful déjà will recover!
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 16, 2013 20:07:08 GMT -7
Déjà could bear weight in her back legs in her own for just a bit today!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 17, 2013 4:52:07 GMT -7
What wonderful news, Robin! Continued prayers for more improvement for Deja.  |
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 18, 2013 10:31:27 GMT -7
Déjà has no deep pain sensation today  ? |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 18, 2013 10:45:25 GMT -7
Robin I am sorry she isn't doing well today. How do you know about the deep pain sensation?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 18, 2013 10:48:05 GMT -7
Did a board certified specialst ACVIM (neurology) tell you about deep pain sensation? To many general DVM vets without the years giving neuro exams and the practiced eye often get it wrong. Can you specfically tell us if she can wag her tail if you do some happy talk to her? Can she sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then maybe attempt to lower herself, release urine? That is proof of bladder control. Or are you now finding urine leaks in her bedding or she leaks on you when lifted…that is a sign bladder control has been lost and your vet need to show you today how to express the bladder. Get more out of a lesson by reviewing this first: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmPlease know the neuro functions to watch for in the very good article: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htmIs surgery an option for your family? Has the vet been advised of neuro functions and discussion of moving to the most powerful of anti-inflamamtories….steroids? Caution..there is a risk to switch w/o a 4-7 day washout…use double stomach protections (pepcid ac AND sucralfate. There needs to be a decision between you and the vet risk vs. benefits about steroid use. Let us know know what your vet says. |
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 19, 2013 4:22:53 GMT -7
No pain response in her front legs now!!!
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Post by Linda Stowe on Oct 19, 2013 6:02:14 GMT -7
Robin, is she showing any other kind of symptoms?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 19, 2013 6:58:40 GMT -7
Robin, because we are not there to know all that you observe in addition to now loss of front leg DPS, we want you to be aware. I'm not writing this to scare you but to remind you that with any spinal cord injury another disease could follow on its heels… Myelomalacia. It is important that owners are familiar with symptoms in order to promptly get their vet's help at any hour of the night or day.
With Myelomalacia, what happens basically is that the spinal cord starts to die from the point of the spinal cord trauma moving forward toward the head. It can happen fast, within hours. It is a very painful ending.. making a dog unable to breathe.
Although Myelomalacia was thought to be rare, we are finding that perhaps it is not as uncommon as once thought. Perhaps vets are becoming more aware and educated about it now and are diagnosing it more now. But, your vet may have never seen a case of Myelomalacia so you might want to print out the information and to discuss whether it may be a possibility. There is no cure for Myelomalacia and it is fatal. Should Deja be developing myelomalacia, before she has difficulty breathing, you would want to help her cross to the bridge to spare a very painful death.
I'm hoping and praying that Deja is not developing Myelomalacia but I felt it important to make you aware of it so that you can discuss it with the vet and be aware so you would know what symptoms to look out for.
Myelomalacia can be confirmed by your DVM with the following:
* about 3-4 days into recovery, they become painful. Within the first week, they are in a LOT of pain.
* development of excruciating pain (more than just pain from the original disc herniation)
• even the strongest pain meds do not help
* acute disc extrusion with no deep pain sensation
* loss of anal tone, the anus hangs open, (anal flaccidity) and areflexia (below normal or no reflexes)
* loss of cutaneous trunci reflex at a level more cranial to a previous evaluation over a period of hours to days with or w/o surgery
* development of fever (normal rectal temperature is 100.5 to 102.5 degrees Fahrenheit)
* sudden twitching or jerking of the neck and/or head
* loss of voice, hoarse bark
* can't hold body up, can't hold head up
* increased respiration/ labored breathing
• hyper-esthesia (over-reaction to any touch sensation on body)
We anxiously await hearing from you. ((hugs))
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 19, 2013 7:04:30 GMT -7
Prayers for Deja!
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Post by robin11234 on Oct 19, 2013 9:29:07 GMT -7
I said good bye to my girl this morning. I think that's exactly what she had. She became very painful, her bark was very hoarse as she cried. My heart is broken
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Post by Nancy & Polly on Oct 19, 2013 9:51:29 GMT -7
I'm so very sorry for your loss.
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StevieLuv
Helpful Member 
Conservative Treatment 3x. It really does work!
Posts: 1,335
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Post by StevieLuv on Oct 19, 2013 9:54:12 GMT -7
Robin I am so very, very sorry for your loss. There was absolutely nothing you could have done to prevent myelomalacia. You have set her free, and she will always be with you in spirit. Deja is running fast and pain free now, and will meet you again at the Bridge.
(((hugs)))
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,598
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 19, 2013 9:58:38 GMT -7
Robin, my heart is broken to read your words. I, know from personal experience with Myelomalacia, that there are no words to soften the pain you feel. Chief Seattle said "There is no death, only change of worlds" and I believe that is so her body is no longer here she now running pain free at the rainbow bridge. Her spirit will always remain with you in a warm and loving place…your heart and continue to participate in your thoughts. Allow yourself to grieve and then may Deja begin to help you laugh again as you are reminded of her antics and unique quirky personality. Choosing some sort of action can help during these grieving days. On behalf of Deja, a legacy of helping to educate about IVDD. Ask Linda to send you a free packet for your vet and business sized cards to hand out wherever you see owners of IVDD prone breeds. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htmThere is a lovely website called the Dachshund Memorial Garden where you can pay tribute and even place a photo. Many touching poems to help in this time of grief: www.dachshundmemorialgarden.comThere is a new Facebook page for those who have lost dogs to myelomalacia www.facebook.com/groups/381150025318109/ if you feel like checking it out. ((Warmest hugs)) with my sincere condolences. |
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Oct 19, 2013 10:12:08 GMT -7
Robin I am so so sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you. Know deja is running through the fields and she will be there waiting for you.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 19, 2013 12:28:32 GMT -7
I'm so terribly sorry to hear this, Robin. My heart goes out to you and your family. My sincerest condolences. You did all that you could to help her and she was blessed to have you in her life.
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lupi
New Member
Doing better every day!
Posts: 52
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Post by lupi on Oct 19, 2013 12:44:50 GMT -7
I'm very, very sorry to learn of your loss. You did all you could for Deja, and I'm sure she had an absolutely wonderful life with you.
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Post by Samantha & Shorty on Oct 19, 2013 13:34:16 GMT -7
I am so very sorry for your loss. My heart breaks for you and your family.
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Post by Pam & Dobby on Oct 19, 2013 13:51:11 GMT -7
Hugs and sincere condolences to you. RIP Déjà.
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Post by agneslulu on Oct 19, 2013 14:55:25 GMT -7
So sorry to hear about Deja ((hugs))
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