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Post by John & Max on Oct 30, 2018 6:56:41 GMT -7
The final every other day dose was 7.5mg. I thought it might be ok to taper the amount on the final day. Should I give him the other 2.5mg?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 30, 2018 7:11:01 GMT -7
Very good on there being an every other day concluding dose. Check with your vet on whether that final 5mgs dose would be sufficient.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Oct 30, 2018 8:47:13 GMT -7
John, you're doing a great job of helping Max recover!
Make sure whenever you have time you read up on IVDD.
The more that you learn the better off you and Max will be.
The main website has a section called IVDD 101.
I highly recommend boning up on both conservative crate rest and surgery.
Also, what to do after recovery.
The very best way to protect and advocate for Max is to understand the enemy, IVDD, and how to treat it.
Healing thoughts and prayers to you both.
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Post by Alix & Gretta on Oct 31, 2018 12:06:56 GMT -7
gretta used to shake her toys really hard. She seems to self regulate and not do that so much anymore - I think it maybe causes her discomfort? If she does start to do it, we just redirect her to playing another way. I'm not sure if Max would be distractible, but maybe if you were there to help it would mean he wouldn't have to shake?
I think gretta's laser therapy helps her a lot. When she started rehab we found a problem in her hip, too, so she gets laser on her back and hip both at the end of every rehab session. By the time we get to the laser, she's pretty worn out from all the exercise, but then she's ready to go again after! She doesn't like the goggles at all, though. I hold her and pet her the whole time so she doesn't try to get them off (she doesn't struggle, just if i'm not holding her, she'll try to use her paws to get them off her head).
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 31, 2018 12:49:46 GMT -7
Pred is such a strong medicine that I think the best choice would be to taper exactly as directed by the vet.
Most of the tapers I have seen slowly cut down on the frequency and not the dosage of the pred although some vets may prefer to taper differently.
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Post by John & Max on Nov 2, 2018 15:48:24 GMT -7
UPDATE:
Max is off of all pain meds and anti-inflammatories is doing much better.
39 days to go until graduation from crate rest. (Thank You Trazodone!)
I bought a shower head type cold laser for around $200 and am treating him for 10 min/day 3 x a week. I would like to have the treatments for 20 or 30 min. each, but it is hard enough to keep him still for the full 10 min.
I am happy to report NO tipping, NO paw folding, can stand indefinitely and is back to barking at invisible intruders when I take him outside to potty.
Thank you to EVERYONE for all the wonderful advice and guidance. I will keep everyone posted.
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Post by Alix & Gretta on Nov 2, 2018 16:42:06 GMT -7
This is awesome! Go, Max, go!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 3, 2018 6:43:48 GMT -7
Wonderful news, John! Continue to keep the crate rest very strict. Max is well on his way to recovery.
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Post by John & Max on Nov 5, 2018 10:57:39 GMT -7
Thanks, I see you know human nature and the desire to ease up on the crate rest when they seem to have gotten back to normal. Looks can be deceiving though. 5 weeks to go
I think we can safely take Max to ROM status. Yea!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 6, 2018 15:20:40 GMT -7
I am so glad to hear how well Max is doing. No pain no meds is excellent to hear Since Max is not paralyzed and can stand and move himself in the crate he can keep his joints and muscles in shape. No additional therapy is necessary during crate rest. The ROM that is described on the page below is for paralyzed dogs that cannot move the legs: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm
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Post by John & Max on Nov 6, 2018 16:38:26 GMT -7
Oh, I'm Sorry. I thought it meant Removed Off Meds. BTW - I talked to my Vet today and she seemed surprised to hear that Max had 5 more wks to go on Crate rest. Should I be looking into another Vet, since she thinks that a disc can scar over this fast?
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 6, 2018 21:25:19 GMT -7
Haha, heard about the mom who thought WTF meant well that's fantastic? Acronyms are so confusing.
If you're happy with your vet overall, I'd stay.
Help educate them about IVDD. On the main website you can get free literature.
Vets are like family doctors for animals. They aren't specialists in one disease like IVDD.
However, you can be!
Dodgers List has seen thousands of cases and a clear pattern of best results with the most conservative treatment has been observed.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 7, 2018 10:02:11 GMT -7
John, we see, too often, dogs doing less than 8 weeks of conservative crate rest, have a relapse to the early healing disc. We do also see that some few dogs whose owners prefer less crate rest do fine with fewer weeks of rest. There is no way to tell ahead of time which category the dog will be in. At Dodgerslist we are very cautious and follow the vets who do recommend 8 weeks of rest having seen too many dogs on the Forum re-injure a disc with less crate rest ending up with more pain and may need a $4000-8000 surgery. 8 weeks of rest is of course not scientific proof, just an observation for many years and 1000's of dogs. The focus of the 8 weeks is getting the disc to form good secure scar tissue. Muscles may atrophy during crate rest, but when it is safe to do active PT, muscles soon bulk up. How long does a disc take to heal? There are no clear cut research studies to answer this question about disc tissue. Usually there would be no $1000+ MRI with conservative treatment to look at the disc's progress. So again it is a guess for each dog how long disc healing takes. Dodgerslist does err on the side of being conservative on crate rest time. Since 2002 and well over 8000 dogs we observe dogs who complete the 8 weeks more often avoid a relapse during the conservative treatment period than dogs who have a shorter confinement period. Below are comments that give some sense of disc healing and how much crate rest. All of life is a weighing of the risks vs. benefits. Is 8 weeks to give the most assurance the disc has healed too much? Is 8 weeks in the total life span of a dog too much time to invest? I can say that I've not observed since being here in 2007 a dog harmed from 8 weeks of rest, but I have observed too many being harmed with less crate rest. == Don’t Administer or prescribe analgesics or steroids without assuring that the owner understands and is committed to adequate confinement of the dog ... Confinement to a bathroom is not adequate (slippery floors and too much space). Also discuss that when the dog starts to feel better, he still needs to be confined to prevent further extrusion of the disk and sudden relapse with potential for profound worsening of neurologic status. Strict confinement is crucial and is considered the cornerstone of conservative therapy for IVDD (the dog is kept in the crate at all times and only taken outside to relieve him/herself). In order to accomplish the goals of preventing further extrusion of the nucleus of the disk and to promote healing of the outer layers (the annulus) of the disk, strict confinement is necessary. Activity can easily push more of the nucleus into the spinal canal and dramatically worsen the neurological status. It is not uncommon to see dogs that have “gone down” (paralysis) after a short course of pain relievers given without insuring that the owner would enforce strict cage rest." Dr Larry Carpenter DVM MS ACVS == Canada West Vet Surgeons Dr. Nicholas Sharp, DVM, ACVIM (neurology): Strict rest needs to be maintained by keeping the dog in a small cage for 6-8 weeks and then preventing it from running or jumping for a further month after that. It is necessary to continue rest for conservative treatment for this long period because a disc takes on average about twice as long as a broken bone to heal, as a disc has a very poor blood supply compared to most other tissues including bone. canadawestvets.com/disc-disease/#table-7-1 == WSU - Mildly affected animals (animals back pain alone or those with mild weakness who are able to strongly walk) may be managed medically. Medical management entails strict cage confinement and appropriate pain medications for a total of 6-8 weeks. Confinement is very important to allow for healing of a degenerative disk. vth.vetmed.wsu.edu/specialties/neurology/information-for-owners/disc-disease== Curtis W. Dewey, DVM, ACVIM Neurology Cornell University - Stable patients with intact voluntary motor function are candidates for medical management consisting of strict cage rest for 6-8 weeks. A Practical Guide to Canine and Feline Neurology. 2nd ed. Blackwell Publishing 2008. Chapter 10. "Myelopathies: Disorders of the Spinal Cord"; By Curtis W. Dewiey. pp 412-413
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Post by John & Max on Nov 8, 2018 8:05:21 GMT -7
Max will be finishing out his last 33 days for sure. I am a little concerned about how to keep him from running after he is released though. the first thing he wants to do when I take him out to his 5ft diameter pen I made up for him to go potty, is to roll over on his back and wiggle/scratch. I prevent him from doing that as soon as I see him doing it. But he would like nothing better than to run and check out what he has been missing if he got the chance.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 8, 2018 10:11:27 GMT -7
As you are nearing graduation day on Dec 6, we'll have lot's of ideas how to gradually introduce him back to family life and physical activity and how your mind can wrap around your fears with the new normal for Max.
You are doing a good job in attending to Max' needs.... an instrumental roll in his healing process!!
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Post by Alix & Gretta on Nov 10, 2018 13:30:52 GMT -7
gretta was rolling over for belly rubs. I panicked at first, but Romy & Frankie reassured me that it was okay.
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Post by John & Max on Nov 12, 2018 13:15:12 GMT -7
I was just reading that the impact of a small dog jumping off a bed or couch is equivalent to a person jumping off the roof of a one story house.
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Post by John & Max on Nov 28, 2018 20:31:44 GMT -7
7 Days to go. Thank you everyone!
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Post by John & Max on Dec 11, 2018 20:51:42 GMT -7
Just wanted to let everyone know that Max is doing Great. Thank You everyone. Merry Christmas.
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Post by Merriem & Spike on Dec 12, 2018 7:10:47 GMT -7
That is wonderful news. Happy Holidays
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,571
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 12, 2018 12:57:15 GMT -7
John, congratulations on having Max complete all 8 weeks of crate rest. How you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Also check out how to teach four paws on the floor! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmGot your furniture blockers in place? www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm
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