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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 18, 2018 15:27:23 GMT -7
Hello & thank you for existing. This site has been very comforting during a really scary time. Last Thursday (9/13/18) Theo woke up from a nap and was paralyzed from the waist down! His legs were really stiff and sticking straight out. I have only had him since Feb, adopted from the pound. He weighs 22 pounds & is actually 50% Chihuahaha & 50% Rat Terrier (I did a dna test on him). Anyway, I rushed him to the ER vet closest to my house (it was 9:30 pm) and they referred me to the NC State Vet School’s neurlogy Dept. He received an MRI and had a herniated disk. He got surgery the next morning (Friday 9/14). All went well & they let us take him home yesterday (9/17) after they gave us two lessons on how to express his bladder. He has no deep pain sensation. He did have it before the surgery. He was operated on 12 hours after the event. I will have to look at his paperwork to tell you all the meds he is on & I don’t have it with me right now. We have him on strict crate rest for 6 weeks per the doctors orders. Only coming out for potty breaks. He really wants to walk and keeps trying. It is heartbreaking to watch. Earlier, he lightly bit one of his legs as if he had an itch. Could this be a good sign? Thank you, Angie & poor little Theo
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Post by Julie & Perry on Sept 18, 2018 15:59:57 GMT -7
So sorry about Theo.
The fact that he had deep pain sensation before surgery is good.
For the first two weeks after surgery there's a lot of surgical swelling so I would try not to worry if he doesn't have it right now.
As for biting his leg, it could be nothing. But just in case, I want to mention a condition called neuropathy.
It's when abnormal nerve sensations cause everything from pins and needles feelings to intense pain.
Dog's have chewed off toes and worse trying to stop the pain.
Watch Theo carefully and if he continues biting, licking, ECT you can put an emergency e-collar on made from a towel and duct tape until you get a regular one.
Gabapentin helps with nerve pain. Is Theo taking it now?
It could be nothing but better to be forewarned just in case.
Sending Theo healing thoughts and prayers.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,544
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 18, 2018 20:09:09 GMT -7
Angie, welcome to Dodgerslist. Sounds like Theo was well cared for at NC State U and you got him in for surgery in a timely manner. We look forward to hearing what meds he was sent home on. That could make a difference as to how often to express. Let us know he is staying dry in between expressing sessions. How often are you expressinging? When first learning it may take every 2-3 hours. As your fingers learn to feel the shape of the baldder, and you can feel when it gets so flat that one hand can almost feel the other because the bladder is pretty empty, then expressing can move up to every 3-4 hours. AGain depends on which meds he is on. Good review for both expressing the bladder and for expressing poop: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmDo stay on top of observing for any more signs of licking moving to chewing on body parts as this can lead to a tragic situation. Immediately put a e-collar on or a lengthwise folded towel and secured closed with duct tape. Get to a vet for a medicine that can help to control these very painful sensations. The name of the drug is called gabapentin. directions for DIY temporary e-collar: forum.greytalk.com/index.php/topic/220138-create-your-own-surgical-collar/
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 19, 2018 16:22:43 GMT -7
Hello- I told the vet school about this site. I think I read every single success story & was prepared to bring him home, with recovery stations etc.
Theo is on the following: Gabapentin 100mg every 8 hours Pepcid AC 20mg a day Carprofen 75mg (a quarter of a tablet) every 12 hours Phenoxybenzamine 2.5 every 12 hours Valium 5mg every 8 hours Fentanyl patch - worn from day of surgery 9/14 & removed this am
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 22 lbs Carprofen as of 9/19: 75mg tab: 18.75mgs 2x/day Gabapentin 100mg 3x/day Pepcid AC 20mg 1x/day Phenoxybenzamine 2.5mgs 2x/day Valium 5mg 3x/day]
The NCSU vet school gave us three bladder expression lessons and a sling walk lesson before he was discharged. We practiced on a bag filled with liquid that had a lime sized ‘bladder’ inside. Then we practiced on Theo.
So far, so good. His kennel has remained dry. We are expressing him every 6 hours. He starts getting fussy right around the time for him to go. Today on his very short potty sling walk he peed when we got outside.
He has pooped 3 times since he has been home & each time he became vocal & we took him out and he pooped on a pee pee pad.
I read several horror stories about nerve pain, so I will definitely watch out for the biting, chewing.
His diagnosis: grade 11/V1 left apical heart murmur. No arrtthymia. Paraplegix with Schiff-Sherrington posture, hyperextension & rigid forearms.
Procedure: a left sided t10 -13 hemilaminectomy performed. A large amount of extruded calcified disc material was removed ventral & lateral to the spinal cord, admixed with bruised & constructive fat. The cord was decompressed. Disc fenestration were performed on t11/12- L2/3 & was markedly productive at all sites.
More to come. Angie
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 19, 2018 17:18:21 GMT -7
So— I just took Theo out of the kennel at 8:10 pm (to express & give 8pm pills) on Wed 9/19 and he turned his head to look at me & began SCREECHING in horrific pain. Nothing has changed in our ‘new normal’ routine, except his Fentanyl patch was removed this AM. By the way, his total vet bill was $5500. Do you think his kennel is too big? I’ll post a pic. Thanks, Angie
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,544
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 19, 2018 17:41:33 GMT -7
Angie, when you reported this pain to the surgeon, what did the surgeon say/prescribe?
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 20, 2018 8:30:42 GMT -7
The surgeon doubled his ▲Neurotin dose.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 22 lbs Carprofen ass of 9/19: 75mg tab: 18.75mgs 2x/day for 14 days til 10/3 ▲ Nerontin (Gabapentin) ▲200mg 3x/day Pepcid AC 20mg 1x/day Phenoxybenzamine 2.5mgs 2x/day Valium 5mg 3x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,544
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 20, 2018 9:09:30 GMT -7
Angie, are you now seeing post-op swelling pain fully in control with the doubling of Neurontin? For how many days is the carprofen prescription. When things settle, would you consider helping another trying to make decisions… We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-postingState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments:
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 20, 2018 17:49:27 GMT -7
Hello, Theo has been very relaxed all day. He has pooped three times and peed four times. This could be crazy, but Theo seems to be letting us know when he has to poop. He starts grunting and wiggling in his kennel. So we get him out and place him on the pee pee pad and he poops. He has not soiled his bedding one time! I’m sure he will eventually. We are expressing his bladder on a schedule but have also expressed it when he seems restless. He has not been left alone since coming home. My husband & I work opposite schedules so one of us is always at his bedside.
The double dose of NEURONTIN has seemed to really help. They did not tell me how long to keep it doubled. I will call tomorrow and ask.
His appetite has been good (as long as it’s not his normal kibble- although he just sat up and started eating that) and he had a pedialyte popsicle today that he really enjoyed.
He will be on the NSAID/carprofen for at total of 14 days.
I will fill out the form for others that you sent in the link. Thanks for all the help! Angie & Theo
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 22, 2018 15:47:43 GMT -7
Theo has been very relaxed all day, sleeping in his kennel. My husband took him out to express his bladder and noticed some movement in his left back leg. Could this be a muscle spasm? I would think with all the drugs he is on nothing would spasm. Also, earlier today I was doing the 15 min massage prescribed by his neurologist on his back legs and he turned around and looked at me each time I touched his left foot. Prior to today he hasn’t responded at all to being touched from the waist down. It has been 9 days since his injury and surgery.
I don’t remember if I posted that he is having his first electro-acupuncture session Monday morning.
Thanks, Angie & Theo
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Post by Julie & Perry on Sept 22, 2018 19:38:43 GMT -7
Wow, to me that sounds like Theo could be regaining nerve sensation!!
Very encouraging signs😄
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Post by Michelle & Keira on Sept 22, 2018 20:14:47 GMT -7
Hi Angie,
It is quite common for one leg to show function again quicker than the other leg. This happened to our dog. Fingers crossed it’s a good sign.
Great that Theo seems to have bowel control too.
Wishing Theo a speedy and quick recovery.
Michelle
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 23, 2018 14:30:37 GMT -7
Today is Sunday 9/23, ten days since injury & surgery. He is being very vocal about wanting out of his kennel. I just did his 15 min PT and then I pinched in between his toes on both back legs and he felt it! He has not responded to this deep pain test since I first took him to the ER vet and he had very little response then. He is eating like normal, growling at our Boxer (Petra) when she enters the room & pretty much acting like his normal self. He did the awful howl this am and my husband took him to the pee pad and he pooped. Can anyone tell me their experiences with acupuncture? If you feel like it worked how many treatments did you do & how often? How much did they cost? The vet coming to my house tomorrow is $120 for the first session and then I think she said it’s $90 after that.
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Post by Merriem & Spike on Sept 23, 2018 17:58:55 GMT -7
Spike had acupuncture 10 sessions as part of his water therapy. I personally did not think it made any difference. This was the real deal when the vet put the needles in. It was worth a try, but I think the cold laser..when he still had some inflammation...but more than anything the water treadmill is the best thing.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Sept 24, 2018 6:01:09 GMT -7
Each dog responds differently but my Jeremy had quite a bit of improvement from acupuncture. Here in NJ, where things are usually quite costly, the holistic vet charges $94 per visit and that's at her office, not at home. Many dogs have recovered well from hydrotherapy. My Jeremy didn't do well with hydrotherapy. He just let his hind legs float in the water. So each dog is different. It's certainly something that many dogs have found great benefit from. There are also exercises that can be done in the bathtub or a kiddy pool - run them by the surgeon for approval before trying any: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htmWhat I found very helpful were the post-op exercises on this page. Run these past the surgeon to see if and when Theo could start any of these: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmDo let us know how the acupuncture goes. Some acupuncturists also perform chiropractic treatments. Chiropractic treatments can be dangerous for an IVDD dog so be sure to just have them do acupuncture.
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 24, 2018 11:39:59 GMT -7
Electro-Acupuncture was today and it was $150 for the first visit. He didn’t feel the pins anywhere or seem to care. He did turn around when she dialed up the electrical part.
My neurosurgeon has been very difficult to get in contact with. She left a vm today saying she would add tradazone to Theo’s meds but didn’t say the dose. Has anyone else used tradazone & what is the dosage standard per pound?
Thank you for the feedback on the acupuncture. He is having a second treatment in a week. He will start hydrotherapy when his stitches are out.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,544
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 24, 2018 11:48:00 GMT -7
Angie trazodone is a prescription item. The vet who prescribes it will Rx based on Theo's weight. Trazadone is used for anxiety to help calm.
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 27, 2018 21:19:40 GMT -7
The neurologist prescribed 50mgs of ✚Tradazone to be taken twice a day. I haven’t started him on it because he has been relaxed and calm since Monday’s acupuncture treatment.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 22 lbs Rimadyl (Carprofen) as of 9/19: 75mg tab: 18.75mgs 2x/day til 9/29 as of 9/29: ▼ 9.5mgs 2x/day til Oct 14 Neurontin (Gabapentin) ▼100mg 3x/day Pepcid AC 20mg 1x/day Phenoxybenzamine 2.5mgs 2x/day to relax Valium 5mg 3x/day for expressing ✚Tradazone 50 mgs 2x/day-- not yet given/needed]
I took him to his regular vet on Wed 9/26/17 and he removed his stitches. He has no deep pain sensation, but excellent reflexes. He also has a lot of strength in his back legs and can almost hold himself up with very little support (but only for short periods). One of the pills [Phenoxybenzamine] Theo has to take is a compounded drug, he takes it twice a day to help us express his bladder. It’s very expensive, I think he said $18 a pill!! It is time for a refill so my regular vet called it into a compounding animal pharmacy in AZ called Roadrunner. They called & are charging $84 for 120 pills. Major price difference. Oh, my regular vet told me to give him one fish oil pill a day as well as glucosamine. He said there are no studies to back this up, but it can’t hurt. We already take fish oil pills so we have a ton. Theo chewed it up & loved it. Gross! Stinky! He also advised I purchase mental stimulation games - I did. A wooden game with hidden treats. He figured it out in less than 30 seconds. I haven’t purchased the glucosamine yet.
We did buy a big dog stroller. It is KILLING him not to go on walks every day when we take our other two dogs. It should be here this weekend. It’s got huge inflatable wheels for a smooth ride, safety belts & a mesh enclosure. I’ll let you know how that works out.
The neurologist called this AM & told me to cut Theo’s ▼Neurotin back to 100mgs, three times a day. She also told me starting tomorrow try to wean him off the ▼Rimadyl (half of what I’ve been giving him) & keep it like this for two weeks at which point they will check in again to see what to dial down further.
Made Theo’s first PT appointment which is at the NCSU vet school’s Health & Wellness Center. They will decide on the best treatment plan for him. The assessment is $150 & they send us home with a package of how to treat at home. They also have packages for 5 all day sessions (drop off at 7 am & pick up at 4:30) for around $650. They have hydrotherapy, cold Lasar, all types of modalities.
I gave Theo his first bath tonight now that stitches are out. I filled the tub to chest height and he could stand on his own. He smells SO much better. I massaged him a long time & he got really sleepy afterwards. I am hoping he will sleep past 6am tonight! Mama needs some sleep. We are so emotionally, physically& financially drained.
But, we are hopeful & looking forward to crate rest being over. Today is two weeks since his injury/surgery.
All feedback is welcome. Thank you!
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Mary & Mila
Helpful Member
FEMALE— DACHSHUND
Posts: 218
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Post by Mary & Mila on Sept 28, 2018 1:34:58 GMT -7
Hi Angie, What a good dog parents you and husband are to little Theo, and what a good dog he is, being vocal about the need to pee and poop! I would take this as a good sign as he obviously knows when he needs to go. Nerve repair.
It's very early days in his recovery, the stroller is a great idea to get him out and about so that he doesn't go stir crazy with boredom, however I definitely wouldn't be ruling out his ability to walk again in the future. There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. All dogs are different, have a look at this link - it's very helpful in explaining nerve repair and signs to watch for. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htmPost op rehab
Angie, this link is helpful in explaining the other different modalities available and may help you decide on which to opt for - though it sounds like the acupuncture is really relaxing him at the moment. The hydro and cold laser I can personally recommend, from my own dog Mila's IVDD experience, the all day long package you mentioned I'd steer clear of, it would be too much for Theo at the moment and I know you wouldn't want to set back his recovery. He has had a major surgery. If you wish you could choose one of the other therapies along with the acupuncture for now and see how he responds. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/rehab.htmHere are some photos of my own dog Mila doing her hydrotherapy a couple of years ago. To say she loved it would be an understatement. I'll finish by giving you a link on nutrition for IVDD dogs and just to say at the moment I'd keep him on whatever food he is used to, again it goes back to the healing process and the body needing and getting as many nutrients as possibly for this to happen. No harm in giving him the fish oils, sounds as though he really enjoys them!! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Supplements.htmYou are doing an amazing job with this, keep up your good work, Theo is a very lucky little dog. Well done. wishing little Theo a speedy recovery, kind regards, Mary.
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Post by Angie & Theo on Sept 28, 2018 21:55:23 GMT -7
We have been testing leaving him alone. We did it yesterday (2 hours) & then increased the time alone to 4.5 hours tonight. Clean bed.! Pooped & peed on the pee pee pads when we got home.. We were super worried because he hadn’t pooped since last night (found it this am). He was very vocal about the poop this AM. I am finding it VERY hard to keep him in kennel. This is auto correcting me like crazy. Anyway, I have set up an outdoor kennel so he can feel normal. He wants OUT. He wants to drag himself. Why can’t he be in a body cast. I’m joking. Last of my humor. This is really horrible. My brother in law asked us if we had a financial cap. He asked us if they had told us $20,000 what would we have said. What a jerk. My sister told him to STFU. Someone give me some guidance. I watched his children all day— I should have asked him that. What would you do for you kids? How do I load up pics?
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Post by Julie & Perry on Sept 28, 2018 23:10:09 GMT -7
Some people just don't get that our dogs are part of our family.
I too have told others that recommended pts, " So if your child broke their leg you'd euthanize them?"
Try to educate and if it's not possible just agree to disagree.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,544
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 29, 2018 10:27:52 GMT -7
Angie, some people just either lack social skills or a filter between their brain and their mouth. Either way it's not personal and you can't get yourself all worked up over it. It isn't healthy or productive for you. Make a choice, either avoid them when you are vulnerable or knowing ahead of time that they ARE going to say something STUPID and you aren't going to let it get to you. But you have to be in control of your emotions, don't let them have control over you.
The "Quick Reply" area does not have the feature to up load a photo.
To up load pictures, choose the "reply" button for full feature posting which does include the button "Add image to post" at the top of the area where you write in.
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Post by Merriem & Spike on Sept 29, 2018 13:00:38 GMT -7
Oh I have had some strange looks and questions. Spike has poor bladder control, and some neighbors ask what the "thing around him was for" the belly band. I nicely looked at them and said....he dribbles...I wanted to say..I bet you do too. Its hard for some people to understand why we do the things we do, and it is...because it is the right thing.
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Post by Angie & Theo on Oct 1, 2018 18:19:34 GMT -7
It is day 18 since the episode & surgery. Theo had his second electro-acupuncture treatment today. The vet noted movement in both his legs before we began!! He also yelped and turned his head when his left paw was pinched. He definitely felt the electo part. She had to put it on the lowest setting because he freaked out. She said she felt he was definitely going to regain mobility, it was just going to be a very slow process. She also suggested I put him on Chinese herbs. I ran this by my regular vet and the neurologist and they are fine with it.
He is now on 50mg of Tradazone twice daily. It has really helped to calm him down. He started that Saturday 9/29. Well, I think- I have all of this documented in a log week keep daily of what we are giving Theo & when. We are doing four very short sling walks a day at potty time, and four 30 min ROM sessions a day per the neurologist.
He wants to eat and wants all kinds of attention. He seems to be stretching out his back legs when we remove him from the kennel to go potty.
He hasn’t soiled his bedding at all, but I think the Tradazone has caused major constipation and I’m sure I’m going to wake up to a giant mess sooner or later. Fingers crossed that I don’t!
Has anyone here used Chinese herbs? She is going to drop them off at my house- so I don’t know the specifics yet. I did have a dog, several years ago, that had a massive brain tumor and we tried herbs then. She lasted a long time, comfortably.
Thoughts? Thanks, Angie & Theo
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 2, 2018 4:00:19 GMT -7
When my Jeremy's hind legs were paralyzed and I was taking him for acupuncture treatments, the vet prescribed Chinese meds. They were for his incontinence, though, rather than his paralysis. The Chinese meds didn't help and in fact Jeremy has never regained full bladder/bowel control, although he walked again. The nerves were just too damaged for acupuncture or Chinese meds to help. He now takes some Chinese meds for hind end weakness.
Chinese meds are made up of numerous different herbs and I remember when I asked the vet years ago which herbs were in the mix she prescribed, she had no idea. She just knew that this particular blend was helpful with incontinence. Herbs can cause side effects and can have contraindications with other meds. Check with the vet which herbs are in the Chinese mix she gives you and google each one so you're aware of side effects and any contraindications. Sometimes the Chinese meds combo will have a specific name that you can Google to find out which herbs are included.
Pumpkin can help to loosen stools. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. Note alternatives for constipation: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato.
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Post by Angie & Theo on Oct 2, 2018 20:55:01 GMT -7
At 6am Theo woke me up howling. I got him out of the kennel to take him to potty and as soon as I picked him up he peed on me, steady soaking stream, the way male infants urinate when trying to change their diapers. He did not soil his cage. I took him out anyway and tried to express and was only able to get a few dribbles out. My husband tried 15 mins later and got a lot of urine out. He is the bladder expression master.
I stopped Theo’s Rimadyl & Pepcid AC today (actually going down to every other day for a week)-I’m weaning him off as per neurologists instructions.
The rest of the day went normally. And then Theo STOOD up at 5:30pm when I opened his kennel to take him out for his potty break! I couldn’t believe it!!! I think it is day 20 since the injury/surgery. He usually tries to start dragging himself towards me & the kennel door, but he actually stood up (only long enough for me to pick him up!)
It’s a miracle! The neurologist told me, 50/50 chance he would regain sensation in his legs! I am so happy. Anyway, after the potty, I started his ROM exercises & he started wiggling his hips & butt while I massaged him. He was in a very good mood and giving me lots of kisses. He could feel the massage, he kept looking at his feet & back legs.
I haven’t received the herbs yet. Will let you know when they arrive and what they are before I give them to my baby.
So happy! Angie & Theo
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 2, 2018 21:35:03 GMT -7
Angie, Theo is on his way to nerve healing! Check out the list below to see where he stands! Very exciting indeed!! Sometimes they heal in a different order like standing before they get bladder control etc.. The point is, Theo is on a roll! He will have more surprises to come!
Once nerves have repaired then muscles will also have to be retrained to relearn proper placement of the paws. Some muscles will need to regain strength for walking. Consider learning to walk again as it would be for a stroke victim or a baby learning to walk. At first, the steps will be weak and a bit unstable. Relearning to walk takes coordination, building up strength, and lots of patience.
There is no timetable anyone can give you when to expect nerve repair to happen. In fact, there is no time limit for nerves to heal...it can take weeks to more like a year or even longer. However, it is known that neurological function usually returns in the reverse order of the damage. The first big sign you want to look for is that wonderful tail wag!
1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.)
2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk.
3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test.
Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine.
4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a stand, and then wobbly walking. << Theo!! 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws.
6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
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Post by Angie & Theo on Oct 5, 2018 6:16:15 GMT -7
Today is day 22 since injury/surgery. This morning Theo started wagging his tail during happy talk! My husband yelled for me to come in the bathroom, he was preparing to express his bladder and Theo was really happy about it. He did it for what seemed like a long time!
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Post by Julie & Perry on Oct 5, 2018 17:33:39 GMT -7
Yay, that's awesome! I'm doing my Snoopy happy dance!!
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Post by Angie & Theo on Oct 8, 2018 15:36:15 GMT -7
We took Theo to NCSU vet school rehab for an evaluation today. He has deep pain sensation back! The orthopedic & rehab (certified) vet said she didn’t want to put him in a cart & she thought 80% chance he would recover. She also said she was fine with fish oil & glucosamine supplements. No studies , if it were her dog she would give it to them. She wants Theo to come for exercise twice a week for 5 weeks at first. He starts hydrotherapy on Thursday. He can stand a little bit on his own! She said they would adjust therapy plans based on how he is doing. It is $100 for each session. They will give you a take home plan for therapy. Sorry for typo’s. I need bifocals. Xo- Angie & Theo
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