PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 12, 2018 17:49:19 GMT -7
Katie, you own Tango. It is your job to protect him by learning all about disc disease. Like how long it takes for a disc to heal is one very important thing to know. Not all vets or other veterinary folks will know. Shorting the rest time in preference to get exercise can spell disaster to the early healing disc. For you it will be a matter of some guilt as you had access to know how long it takes a disc to heal, more vet bills, and starting crate rest from scratch. For Tango, a relapsed disc can mean a great deal of pain, maybe nerve damage that could be permanent. March 10 is Tango's graduation day where the disc scar tissue will be healed enough to begin a gradual introduction back to physical activity. I hope you will not give up on Tango's still healing disc. Here is your ROAD MAP... print it out for the fridge to keep you from making dangerous detours. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm
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Post by Katie & Tango on Feb 14, 2018 18:47:10 GMT -7
Thanks Paula i just really needed to hear that! My vet is so sharp over 16+ years we’ve had two disagreements this being the 2nd one 27 yesterday 70 today so Tango got to set on the deck in his portable cage and Enjoy Valentine’s Day
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Post by Katie & Tango on Feb 22, 2018 12:35:12 GMT -7
Well things are going great, except Tango thinks he is healed and digs and shoves his paws as high as he can n stands (bent over) in his cage . Still taking methacarbanol 3 times a day. [14 lbs Novox 75mg tab as of 1/13: 37.5mgs 1x/day for 14 days, then Sat. 1/27 stop to test for pain/neuro loss as of 2/2: 37.5mgs 1x/day for 14 days, then Fri 2/16 stop to test for pain/neuro loss Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day]
I’ve got a big flat coffee table that I put a sheepskin on and pull it right up to the couch when I watch TV. He lays there quite and good and never moves, thinks he’s in my lap I guess . We’ve only got 16 days to go and I’m not going to blow it now!!!!!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 22, 2018 15:01:45 GMT -7
I am happy to hear that things are going great.
When you say he is shoving his paws up, do you mean while standing on his back legs? If so, this will put too much pressure on the back. I know that you have tried draping a blanket over his crate and he thought it was a toy. I had this problem for a while also. What we did was got some long, light weight pieces of wood and put them on top of his crate. We then draped the blanket over this. The blanket was then too far away for him to reach from the crate.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 22, 2018 18:09:17 GMT -7
Katie, do let us know Tango is safely inside of a recovery suite when on the big flat coffee table which has a sheepskin rug on it.
What is the reason that the pain-masking methocarbamol is still on board since the test-for-pain stop of Novox began on Feb 16?
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Post by Katie & Tango on Feb 22, 2018 21:21:47 GMT -7
I have a lowered roof solid wood on the cage, it’s only tall enough so he can sit in it, but, yes he shoves his paws into the wire and stands bent over.
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Post by Katie & Tango on Feb 22, 2018 22:00:00 GMT -7
I have a lowered roof solid wood on the cage, it’s only tall enough so he can sit in it, but, yes he shoves his paws into the wire and stands bent over. Pauline, well sort of, it’s blocked 3 ways with wall and solid chair and the forth is me laying on the couch. He’s right in my face so if he twitches an ear I feel it. Thought this was a much better way for him to relax when I am watching tv than doing the dog paw climb, beg, ......I can stop that by opening the crate and laying in it, however my back has sever arthritis and disk problems from breaking it and I can only do so much floor time. It’s also not for long periods, perhaps and hour or so, and ONLY while I am right there to stop him if he decides to do some move. now the methacarbonal, the last time we saw the vet he said keep him on it. But, if u remember he also said to start taking him out of the box for walks also. He kind of gave me a dismissed for this case, so I am muddleing through doing my best useing the advice I read here to get through the last weeks and into The rehab period. So so do you think I should wean him off of it? I have gone [methocarb] from three times a day to twice.
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 22, 2018 22:37:16 GMT -7
Methocarbamol doesn't need to be tapered, it can just be stopped so a true test for pain can happen. If you see pain, that means swelling is still happening and the need to go back on Novox and the Gabapentin and Methocarbamol.. If no pain shows up, then no medications would be necessary, just the continuation of the remainder of crate rest..
Have you stopped the Gabapentin?
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Post by Katie & Tango on Feb 23, 2018 8:27:07 GMT -7
Yes we’ve been off novox and gabapentin for at least 2 weeks maybe longer. Didn’t give him his afternoon or evening dose of metacarpal. And so far so good today!!!
Friday Feb 23 off all meds
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 3, 2018 9:55:51 GMT -7
Katie's Tango 3/2 Conserv- NECK-Chinese Crstd- GRAD 4/27 I am so depressed, Tango has been doing perfect pain wise, hasn’t had any meds since Feb 23. No pain. However his Feisty level has been going up and up and up..... he shoves his feet thru the cage as much as possible, climbs them above his head, putting pressure on that neck. I will come in and sit for hours beside him, this keeps him calm, and correct him verbally in the crate. Take him outside in his “traveling crate on wheels” made a very small (a little bigger than his crate nough so he can pee off leash) high fenced enclosed area outside . Because he has become a DEMON ON LEASH, HE stands more on his hind legs than on all fours. Feb 28 ( the last day of Feb) he jumped in the air on a 40” leash hit the end and flipped himself. I grabbed him up and examined everything and all seemed ok, no pain response when I had him bend his neck for treaty. Last nights late pp trip, he cried when I took him out of th box, but seemed ok when I put his clothes and harness on. this morn March 3 he cried a lot and when I sat him down to go pee, he went into the hunched back lowerd neck walk. I am IN. TEARS March 10th was suppose to be his 8 weeks crate rest. What do I do now? I’ve still got his methacarbanol , should I put him back on that? Are we going to have to start the 8 weeks over or, do I need to go to the Veterinary collage at MU and pay the big bucks for an mri and perhaps surgery ? The thought of loosing Tango or having him suffer in pain his life is tearing me apart. I have a 15 year ol Crested who has had lymphoma for 3 years and , I e cooked totally organic and fresh foods for him, all natural supplements and NO chemo drugs! even though he is still doing good I am starting to see some things that are not good. We adopted Tango and his brother last March because couldn’t face not having a happy go lucky loving Crested’s in my life. ADVISE
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 3, 2018 11:01:29 GMT -7
Got my vet to answer my call on a Sat, he wants him back on Novox , methacarbanol and ice on the neck.
Still would like to hear from any of you, pertaining to extended cage rest or what else I should do. BTY I have an indoor 2 person jacuzzi bath tub that I can also control the temp of the water . It is deep enough that I can put a life jacket on my dogs and hold them up and they have to paddle in place . I use this a lot on Orca my 15 year old helps his arthritis tons! I keep the water temp around 110 or 105. When I swim him.
I’m sure this isn’t what I should do w Tango right now, but I want d to check your opinions on this.
Thanks for being here, I actually feel better about your opinions than my vet, he isn’t as strict, and I’m betting hasn’t seen as many disk problems as you guys ha e
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Mary & Mila
Helpful Member
FEMALE— DACHSHUND
Posts: 218
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Post by Mary & Mila on Mar 3, 2018 12:24:13 GMT -7
Hi Katie,
I'm just updating on Tango's story. I'm really sorry to read that things don't seem to be progressing for him at the moment.
May I just ask you a question though, you were saying Tango pulled on a leash and flipped himself, and also that you are putting clothes on him? I'm not sure clothing it good idea when he has a neck issue? I think I'd also forget the harness and carry him to potty, place him in a pen outside to do potty, where his movement is restricted and then pick him up and carry him back to his crate.
Ok so you know not to put him in a jacuzzi as it's a crate rest principal. When he is recovered make sure to ask the vets permission before doing it. And just to refresh on those principals: •no laps ----> •no couches •no baths --> •no sleeping with you •no chiro therapy •no dragging or meandering at potty times.
I do hope things improve again soon for him. kind regards Mary
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 3, 2018 12:49:10 GMT -7
Katie, it is best to NOT touch the neck, not put ice on it. IT is properly prescribed pain meds and adjusted so there is not pain that masks pain. When meds have been properly prescribed, then you would see in one hour or less that the pain is in control. So in one hour of giving the methocarbamol, if pain is not in control, call the vet and STRONGLY advocate that all pain meds be back on board every 8 hours. The time to be chinzy with pain meds is on the stop of Novox where the pain meds are either back off or full stopped to test for pain.
It would be helpful to always be specific when speaking about meds: mgs, how often you are to give, etc. Please update us on the missing information in pink.
-- What is the reason all three sources of pain are not going to be masked? ---Why is gabapentin for nerve pain not on board? ---Why is tramadol as the general analgesic not on board. Tramadol and gabapentin together increase the effect of each other -- Let us know for sure you have Pepcid AC back on board. -- How many day course of Novax is being called for? 7-day cours, 14-day course or ???
Has ACE nor another such as Trazadone not been working to keep him more calm. Or the other night was he not on anything to calm him?
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 3, 2018 13:10:04 GMT -7
Hi Mary, Thank you for your response. Tango is a hairless Chinese Crested and they need protection when it’s cold outside. I have lots of ez on coats, Velcro around belly and neck so I don’t do any pulling or pushing when I put the coat on. I carry him out the door to his favorite p n poo tree where generally he does his thing, pick him back up n come in to the crate. So I did make a pen for him outside so I wouldn’t be pulling on the harness when he has the feisty feet... However, he won’t poo in it....no way no how..... he won’t poo in his crate either, and 2 Weeks ago we were in the vets office because he was totally stopped up. I give him green beans n pumpkin, but it’s a brain thing. On leash he will go pee n poo but not in a small pen.
Crestds are little clowns all my boys spend almost as much time walking on their hind legs as all fours....so when they feel good ( like Tango did) it’s a challenge to keep them grounded.
Paula he has him back on 125 mg methacarbanol every 8 hours have enough for 28 days 5mg famodtidine twice day before meds and meals all meds given after a full or small meal Novox 17 1/2 mg x 2 day. Have enough for 28 days vet didn’t want him on gavapentin [for nerve pain] because he is not having mussel spasms He also said no tramadol unless he would have sever pain again, he said it’s too dangerous on the kidneys to Maintain on tramadol. Also another reason why he uses only minimal drugs needed to be pain free.
[14 lbs Novox 75mg tab as of 3/3: 17.5mgs 2x/day for 7-day course then 3/10 stop to test for pain/neuro loss Methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day tramadol up to 25 mg 3x/day —but not giving ACEpromazie 5 mg 2-3x/day if needed Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
I have premission to use tramadole or ace to reduce pain ocassionally only
start out with 7 day dose, me reevaluate and up to 2 weeks before he wants to see him if pain is still appearing after meds are discontinued again.
From Feb 23 until last night he had no pain and was on no meds
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 3, 2018 14:34:00 GMT -7
It is a good idea to use only the minimal amount of pain meds that control the pain but the pain should be controlled. Pain will only slow down the healing process. Are the new meds taking care of his pain? If not, let the vet know that Tango is still in pain right away.
I am a bit confused by this sentence, but it is probably just a typo. "I have premission to use tramadole or ace to reduce pain ocassionally only." Did you mean trazadone or tramadol here. Trazadone, like ACE is to reduce anxiety. Tramadol is a pain reliever.
What meds are to be stopped in seven day so that Tango can be evaluated? All of them?
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Post by Gen & Speedy on Mar 3, 2018 20:08:49 GMT -7
Hi Katie - Man, you've got your hands full with this busy little guy. He sure is cute, though - crazy hair! My Speedy is also a lunatic, figured out pretty quick he was going have to be stoner-doggie for the next few weeks in order to get through this confinement. Although he is off pain meds, he still gets trazodone at least twice a day to keep him from banging around in his crate and undoing the thousands of dollars already spent. Its taken some playing around to get the timing/dosage just right so that he's mellow but not so zonked that he can't pee steady. Hope you can find a good dosing strategy for Tango with the trazadone and/or acepromazine that will help both of you get some rest and cut down on his shenanigans ~g
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 3, 2018 21:30:25 GMT -7
Romy tramadol [25 mgs 3x/day] for the pain, and yes Ace cause Tango has. Very low pain tolerance and goes into an anxiety attack if he has bad pain, he tenses up and really adds fuel to the already fired up pain level. His first week I was giving him right at 1 a Day especially first pee of the morn. If I could get him thru that he stayed chilled and not freaked most of the day
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Mary & Mila
Helpful Member
FEMALE— DACHSHUND
Posts: 218
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Post by Mary & Mila on Mar 4, 2018 1:26:45 GMT -7
Hi Katie, He sure does sound like a live wire alright! Fair enough about the EZ clothing, I wasn't aware such clothing was available. And I saw videos online with obviously Chinese crstd standing on their back legs almost like dancing to music, and I wondered was it the real deal? Now I know I guess regarding pooping and peeing they all have their own little rituals. I hope with the Ace or trazadone you can get him chilled out a bit and back on the road to recovery. warm regards Mary
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 4, 2018 12:01:32 GMT -7
tramadol up to 25 mg every 8 hours
Acepromazie 5 mg every 8-12 hours if needed
I gave 1 dose tramadol and 1 dose ace yesterday because he was in more pain than he had been since the start. Today he seems a lot better, only wined a bit when I took him out of his sleeping crate to go out to pee. It’s the smaller crate on a wagon so he can be right at my face in the bedroom. YES he is that spoiled. LOL.
He has adjusted to being a fairly non vocal boy in the bigger day cage in the living room when I leave, but OMG I’ve tried a bunch o times to sneak out of the living room at night, even when he’s asleep. I might make it 5 mins in bed before the boogeyman crawls out from under the couch and try’s to (by the sounds of the yells) kill him.
So so we are now back to 8 full weeks crate rest??? I feel so depressed, why do u think at 7 weeks he re-injured himself? Is it possible this isn’t going to heal?
Been reading as many threads as my eyes can stand since last night.... I have a question
Laser Therapy, I am confused as to when to do it? Seems like some posts indicate not until crate rest is done?
We have already done laser on Tango, when the sever pain settled down, 5ish -6 weeks ago. Now with his relapse should I pursue laser again or wait until he is ready to come out of the crate?
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Post by Julie & Perry on Mar 4, 2018 15:27:38 GMT -7
Laser therapy can be very helpful however any time out of the recovery suite a dog is at risk for further injury.
So laser is usually recommended after crate rest is over.
However, last year my dog was having another disc episode and was down in both back legs. Several weeks into crate rest she wasn't responding.
So I decided to go ahead with laser therapy. I transported her in a crate with rolled blankets all around the edges.
She responded very well.
You have to balance risk with reward.
Hope this helps.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 4, 2018 16:22:56 GMT -7
Katie, it would be good if you, yourself, are able to work out in your own mind when a treatment is in Tango's best interest or not. This is how you protect Tango by applying the principals of strict rest. As Julie mentioned weighing when something is so important, so benefical that it merits a risky-to-the-healing disc vehicle transport.
Tango's pain is in control with current pain med regimen and he is not even on an aggressive med level. Laser therapy can be an adjunct to pain relief when an aggressive use of pain meds is still not fully controlling pan. What ya think about laser in regard to Tango's pain situation?
Tango can walk. Laser therapy can kick start nerves to self heal and with time bring back neuro functions. What ya think about Laser therapy in regard to Tango's current neuro function?
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 4, 2018 21:34:03 GMT -7
LIGHTBULB MOMENT...... when we did laser at the beginning of this nightmare, several times he was worse the next morning. I told the techs this but no one really seemed interested, like it was just normal.
Yeah he has total fuction of all his parts, and I wouldn’t want anything to jeopardize that. I thought the sooner the laser the sooner the healing would be.
I have dealt with darn near every kind kind of disease and injury EXCEPT the back....and I am so lost at this . Thank you for your patience and guidelines I sure need them!
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 7, 2018 8:34:45 GMT -7
Has anyone ever used CBD full spectrum hemp oil ?
Tango is doing springy feet and doggie dash when I open his crate to go p....
Had some people tell me to try this that it helped their pets with things like thunderstorm anxiety, fear of riding I. Cars, and various either problems like that. And that isn’t also a good natural anti inflammatory....
My vet has no idea about it and no opinion
that's supose to read it IS a good Natural anti inflammatory
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 7, 2018 10:34:44 GMT -7
Katie, the strength of anti-inflammatory Tango needs is the big gun one he is on. Just because something is natural does not mean it doesn't have side effects or other problems. Did you know water can kill, if not used in a safe manner? Best not to jump on any bandwagon hype unless you understand. This is a good jumping off point to finding if there is any newer research since a year ago: skeptvet.com/Blog/2017/01/evidence-update-new-review-of-medical-marijuana-research/
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 14, 2018 8:47:50 GMT -7
I have a question, I need a harness that is much softer than what I’m using. Chinese Crested have skln like a baby’s butt and it takes very little to chaff. The harness I’m posting the pix works good EXCEPT we r starting to have some warm days where we r going out to p with out his coat. The harness espically the webbing is starting to rub sores on his skin. Lord I need NOT to do that! So a soft yet STRONG ACROSS THE CHEST and soft straps, been looking and can’t find any. I see espically daushounds wearing what appears to be a mesh vest type harness, where do u find these and are they designed for daushounds only? Orrrr any other idea anyone has. THANKS .... DR changed Tango to 12 mg of Novox 1@day until September. Went back in for a neurological exam, and they were delighted with how he responded! [14 lbs Novox 75mg tab as of 3/3: 17.5mgs 2x/day for 7-day course then 3/10 stop to test for pain/neuro loss as of 3/14: 12mgs 1x/day for 150 daysMethocarbamol 125mgs 3x/daytramadol up to 25 mg 3x/day —but not givingACEpromazie 5 mg 2-3x/day if needed Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 14, 2018 9:22:21 GMT -7
Katie, can you explain the thinking behind continued Novox til September? What were the credentials of the vet, a DVM or a DVM with advanced training of neuo (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS)?
Is Tango still on all the other meds: methocarbamol, tramaodl, AC and Pepcid AC.
Have you looked at a Puppia harness?
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 20, 2018 11:31:38 GMT -7
He wants him on a light dose to keep any inflammatory problems at bay.
Rught now only on the 12 mg Novox and pepcid ac 1 a day
[14 lbs Novox 75mg tab as of 3/3: 17.5mgs 2x/day for 7-day course then 3/10 stop to test for pain/neuro loss as of 3/14: 12mgs 1x/day for 150 days Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
can not find good.vest harness to fit . He has 20” chest and 12 neck . Plus Chinese Crested hairless have baby’s Butt soft and easy to irratate skin, so tight will eat up his arm pits because the holes r on everything I’ve tried are snug
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 20, 2018 11:49:41 GMT -7
You may find a strap type of harness best suited as you can buy for the chest size. and snug up other parts of the harness to fit as needed. More flexible than the fabric harnesses. Purchase a set of real (not the fake stuff) sheepskin shearling car set belt strap coverings. Usually about 12" in length. Either glue in place. I have a sewing machine so I sewed it to the inside of the harness. Cut the shearling with scissors to fit the inside of the harness as needed. The shearling will provide softness and avoid abrasion to the hairless skin. You can buy on-line or maybe at your local auto parts departs shop, Target or other box stores. I had a harness that was too big, so I used the shearling to make it smaller for my dog. You'd be doing it for comfort.
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Post by Katie & Tango on May 5, 2018 19:07:38 GMT -7
Tango is doing Awesome! Completely out of cage now, he’s been a good boy about not running like an idiot and jumping, course I have a. Vest harness on him A lot . You guys have been so wonderful helping me out THANK ALL OF YOU SO MUCH!!!!!! All our Love Tango, and Katie
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Post by Pauliana on May 5, 2018 21:01:33 GMT -7
Congratulations on Tango's crate rest graduation! He has done really well. We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team in any way that makes you happy. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal. --- You've been there, and are doing it....if you see another member on the Forum needing support or information share what you know to be true or point them to one of our many IVDD articles. The "search box" on each page makes quick work to find the right helpful link: www.dodgerslist.com/-- "Share" our FB/twitter/ posts to widen the reach of IVDD knowledge www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist twitter.com/DodgersList -- Hand carry our literature. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) to give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you our free packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm-- We have a store where you might find something you absolutely need! Our earnings go to paying for our webpage and literature to hand out. www.dodgerslist.com/store.htm-- Don't forget to add a photo to the gallery and 1-2 sentences. Give inspiration to others just starting a scary IVDD journey. Directions to u/l here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendar
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