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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 9, 2017 5:44:30 GMT -7
Saturday morning update. All is still going well with Nelli. Appetite is great and more active than I'd like. Trying to keep her still. I'm not sure if depression is an issue with dogs, but she's not happy in the crate....but I'm not giving in! Thank you for suggestions on keeping her from jumping in the crate. I will read the link for other suggestions. I cannot that you enough for being here for people you don't even know....and of course for getting us to this point!!
PS...question about duration of crate rest. I know you say 8 weeks but wondering if that starts from the time I first started crating her or if it starts now that she's stable? In other words, do that past two weeks count toward crate rest?? I sure hope so! :-)
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 9, 2017 7:25:19 GMT -7
Crate rest is all about getting the disc to heal via limited movment. So the count starts from the date you started strict rest. Nerve healing is a different matter that does not depend on crating. Self repair of nerve function improvement may or may not happen in the short 8 weeks it takes a disc to heal. So graduation day from crate rest to heal the disc will be on Sept Oct 22.
We are glad to be able to contribute in some way to help you to help Nelli! Thanks for letting us know, makes our day to know being at the keyboard makes a difference.
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 9, 2017 7:37:45 GMT -7
It makes a HUGE difference and it's very, very much appreciated!
Regarding graduation day, do you mean October 22?? Would be awesome but September 22 would only be about 4 weeks...?
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 10, 2017 7:19:46 GMT -7
Good Sunday Morning! Nelli still progressing the same. Still has a good appetite and all is looking good. I'm thinking ahead to next week and thinking about the next step of what you call taper and test for pain. I'll be headed back to the vet on Thursday to start this process. Can you give me more information on what I should expect in terms of both taper (lower dose of pred and how will Tramadol be treated)? I guess I'll be looking for pain in the same terms as before (little movement and not her perky self). Thanks!!
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Post by Jean & Mimi on Sept 10, 2017 8:40:32 GMT -7
Hi Roxanne, Do you have to go back to the vet to start the taper or would your vet consider a phone consultation to begin the process? You have to remember that any time out of the recovery suite is a chance for more damage to occur. You need to be sure to weigh the value of a vet visit vs. helping to keep Nelli stable and allow time to heal. When I did my taper, my vet was very willing to do phone consults through the process, telling me how to decrease the meds and how to watch for pain.
In terms of the taper, my vet had me do a slow decrease on pred and doing a slow decrease on other pain meds. They will tell you exactly how to do this.
Signs to watch for are main of the same signs you originally saw with pain..decreased movement, yelping, shivering, not being their normal perk self etc. You need to notify your vet immediately if you see any signs of pain during the process.
When I say I did a slow decrease in the pred...it took me weeks to get her off. My dog was very sensitive to changes so we literally decreased by .25 over a series of days. So consider that if your dog is really sensitive.
Good luck!
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 10, 2017 15:32:44 GMT -7
Hi Jean and Mimi! Great point about taking her to the vet. I'm sure he would discuss via phone...or one on one without her. She's currently on 5 mgs 2x/day...and I don't think she's too sensitive or I'd have probably lost her by now (kidding but it was a challenge getting to the anti-inflammatory dose). Just wondering what the average step down is and over what period of time so I'll know what I should be advocating for! Thank you again for your guidance!!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 10, 2017 15:42:48 GMT -7
Roxanne, the only thing you would advocate for re: prednisone is IF on a taper you see pain. You would report pain. Advocate for another course of prednisone.
It is the vet who knows the correct way to taper off of prednisone. That is the reason prednisone must always be used under the direction of a vet.
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 11, 2017 5:59:15 GMT -7
Got it! Thanks again for everything. Won't bother you with daily updates but will make periodic reports as things progress! Thanks again to all the moderators who volunteer their precious time to help total strangers and our pups. You provide an amazing service and it is greatly appreciated!!!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 11, 2017 6:54:11 GMT -7
Roxanne, let us know what prednisone taper is prescribed for Nelli. The test-for-pain Prednisone taper would include either stopping all pain meds or backing them off. This allows you to quickly recognize if there would be an hint of pain resurfacing and give that feedback to the vet. Let us know which your vet wants stopping or backing off of gabapentin.
We'll have our fingers crossed that the 6-day course of pred will show all pain is really gone. Keep us posted!
Pain= another course of prednisone + all pain meds back on board. No Pain= follow taper to the conclusion... finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal.
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 14, 2017 10:18:17 GMT -7
Hi (finally was able to post, please disregard the message I sent). Talked to the vet this morning and he said to taper prednisone as follows: 7.5 mg (1/2 2x/day) for three days; 5 mg (1/2 2x/day) for three days; and 2.5 mg (1/2 2x/day) for three days. He also said to stop the Tramadol. He said that if I see she's experiencing pain again that I should resume the 10 mg (1/2 2x/day) for five days. I hope this is consistent with what is normally prescribed for taper process. Thanks and will let you know how she does! ----
Thanks Paula. Will post following vet visit with info on taper. She's currently only on Tramadol for pain. The Gabapentin was stopped following a couple of vomiting episodes. She seems to be doing well. Thanks again!!
[Moderator note, please do not edit 13.5 lbs Carprofen as of 8/23 12mg 2x/day for 5 days STOPPED 8/28! Prednisone: as of 8/27: 7.5 mg 1x/day for 1 day as of 8/28: 5 mgs 1x/day for 3 days as of 8/31: 5mgs a.m/2.5mgs p.m. for 1 day as of 9/1: 5mgs 2x/day for 1day, Self prescribed by owner! then 5mgs/2.5mg for 1 day as of 9/3 STOPPED w/o taper as of 9/5: 5mgs a.m/2.5mgs p.m. for 2 days, 9/7 assess for increase as of 9/7: 5mgs 2x/day for 6 days, , then 9/14 test-for-pain Prednisone taper Tramadol 25mgs 3x/day STOPPED 9/14 Prilosec 10mgs 1x/day Metronidazole 62.5mgs 2x/day ]
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 15, 2017 6:35:36 GMT -7
Trying again.... Began Nelli's Prednisone taper yesterday (Thurs, Sept 14) as follows: 7.5 mg (1/2 2x/day) for three days;5 mg (1/2 2x/day) for three days; and 2.5 mg (1/2 2x/day) for three days. Vet also took her off Tramadol altogether. If pain resumes, I am to put her back on the 5 mg 2x/day dose. If not, I am to follow up with vet at end of prescribed taper. As of this morning, she's doing well. Thanks again and will provide periodic updates!!!
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 19, 2017 7:02:41 GMT -7
Good morning. Thought I'd let you know Nelli is still doing well (want's out of the crate in a bad way tho!) I have one more day of prednisone 2.5 mg 2x/day taper then will reduce to 1.25 mg 2x/day. No signs of pain whatsoever so hoping we will continue this trend until she is off the medicine altogether!! Thanks again for all you help. I can't thank you enough. Oh, and thanks for using Nelli's picture in one of your recent FB posts! I've subscribed to your newletter and look forward to my first edition in October! :-)
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,549
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 19, 2017 7:29:34 GMT -7
Roxxane, you continue to report good news on the pred taper --- no pain surfacing! It really warms our hearts that you are helping us! Your subscription to our quarterly Digest helps us pay for our webpage, printing of Dodgerslist brochures and business sized cards so that each of you can hand out at no cost to vets and owners about IVDD, and for this Forum -- free of irritating ads. Thank you so very much!!
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Sept 24, 2017 12:48:04 GMT -7
Hi...Just wanted to let you know that today is hump day! Four weeks in the crate and four weeks to go. Nelli is doing great. She's off all meds and no signs of pain. She's a little wild and doesn't want to be in the crate at all. Have been putting her in a small x-pen outside to give her a change of scenery but she'd prefer a boat ride! Thanks again for helping us get this far! :-)
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Oct 5, 2017 11:41:41 GMT -7
Greetings!! Checking in to report Nelli is coming up on six weeks this Sunday and still no signs of pain. Don't want to jinx this but need to start looking for info on graduation day! Thank you, thank you, thank you (again and again) for your guidance through this journey!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 5, 2017 13:09:42 GMT -7
Crate rest is almost over, wonderful! Now is the time to take these steps to modify your home to make it back friendly. Here are some great tips. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmA dog finishing up 8 weeks of crate rest needs to gradually build up muscles and stamina.The best thing is to gradually reintroduce your dog back to activity. We have some info on that, including a possible timeline for you to review here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Oct 8, 2017 6:24:45 GMT -7
Thanks so much for the links!! Another question about a procedure that a friend made me aware of. I can't remember what it's called, but she said her vet did something to each of her dog's disc's to prevent future eruptions. She said the dog needed to be stable (not having any disc issues) and it seems she said it was around $3,000. Have you ever heard of it? If so, what are risks and does it work?? Thanks again!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 8, 2017 6:38:25 GMT -7
Your friend was most likely talking about laser disc ablation. In our previous group's location at Yahoo, there were several who did the laser disc ablation procedure (LDA). The archives at the old location show 14 dogs had LDA and 5 dogs later had another disc episode. One member in our current group had a very bad experience with this procedure. dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/5314/susans-demo-9-surgery-wksThere are a few other dogs since who have had it done that have not had any problems but it has only been a few years and we have not had any updates from them. As far as we know to date neither Oklahoma State Univ nor DFW Surgeons maintain follow-up records on the patient's disc problems following LDA and so they don’t have any 1 year, 3 year, 5 year etc. records following the procedure in order to be able to provide actual success rates long term. Every single disc in the spine has the potential to be effected by the ongoing IVDD disease process. During LDA, the surgeon only selects 7 discs to zap (those that seem to herniate most often) and that leaves all the others that can go bad. Plus, we have had one dog that had it done at Oklahoma State and was one of the first to have LDA on cervical plus thoracic and lumbar discs and the dog went on to have a cervical disc problem in one the discs that had been zapped in the LDA procedure. When the owner contacted OKC saying “how could this be possible?” they said that could be “the disc didn’t get zapped well enough.” Your Nelli and any other dog born with the prematurely aging disc disease (IVDD) could suffer other disc episodes. So that means all his discs have the potential to become hardened and no longer cushion the vertebrae. This disease is very unpredictable. Some dogs will have only one disc episode during their entire lives while others may have multiples.
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Post by Linda Stowe on Oct 9, 2017 8:51:10 GMT -7
Roxanne, as a follow up to Marjorie's answer:
I emailed Dr. Dugat at Oklahoma State last year on their follow-up research. Here is her reply:
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Oct 9, 2017 16:29:38 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie and Linda for all the information. Marjorie, I can't read the link re: Demo's poor result because these issues are too upsetting to me. With all the positive results, I'm not sure if it's worth a 4% risk... Sure would like avoid further IVDD for Nelli tho!
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Post by Roxanne & Nelli on Oct 22, 2017 17:09:34 GMT -7
Greeting to all you angels out there that volunteer your precious time to help frantic pet owners like I was just eight weeks ago. I'm happy to report that Ms. Nelli graduates today and is doing well. I've had her out of the crate a few times for short walks and she's not showing any signs of weakness or pain. Thanks again for all you do....I don't think I'd be having the same outcome without y'all!
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Post by Pauliana on Oct 22, 2017 20:39:29 GMT -7
Happy Crate rest graduation to you and Nelli! Thank you also for the kind words, we were glad to help! www.dodgerslist.com/forumads/Graduate.jpgWe love it when members have a mind to pay forward and help another. We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team in any way that makes you happy. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal.
-- "Share" our FB/twitter/ posts to widen the reach of IVDD knowledge www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist twitter.com/DodgersList -- Hand carry our literature and introduce us to your vet. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) to give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you our free packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm
-- We have store where you might find something you absolutely need! Our earnings go to paying for our webpage and literature to hand out. www.dodgerslist.com/store.htm-- Oh! and don't forget to add a photo to the photo gallery and 1-2 sentences. Give inspiration to others just starting a scary IVDD journey. Directions to u/l here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendar LOGIN LOGIN www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=4 : username: Dachsie password: dodgerslist14 Or you can email (owner's name, email addy, dog's name + photo caption) to : photogallery@dodgerslist.com Enjoy many happy years with Nelli!
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