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Post by Gayle Mullins on Jul 19, 2017 6:43:46 GMT -7
I am new to forums so hello to all who are reading. My wonderful, four-year old dachshund has been hurting for a week. He played too roughly with another dog on Tuesday, and I noticed he yelped when I put him in my lap, and also when he tried to walk rapidly. By Saturday, I decided this was not just a pulled muscle. Even though he was walking fine and wagging his tail, I got an appointment for 7:00 pm on Saturday and the doctor manipulated his neck and fingered his spine. Suddenly Elmer bit him. I was shocked. The doctor dropped to his knees moaning and groaning after screaming an obscenity, and Elmer fell off the table. After an x-ray, he came back and diagnosed Elmer with IVDD and told me to put him in a crate 24/7 with only bathroom breaks, and a prescription for Tylenol2. When I brought him home, he stopped walking and was much worse. I think the fall from the high table didn't help. On Sunday, I brought him back to the vet hospital where another doctor examined him and wanted him to have surgery right away. She gave him morphine and told me to drive three towns away, about 60 miles where the team would be waiting. I was in shock. The cost would be $ 5,500, which I didn't have. I'm retired on a fixed income. I told her I would have to think about alternatives, and she gave me three prescriptions, Gabapentin, Prednisone, and Famotidine. I have been in contact with Paula via email, and she has been a very valuable resource. [21 lbs Tylenol (acetaminophen) 300 MG with codeine #2 15 MG as of 7/15 STOPPED Prednisone as of 7/16: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days then test for pain taper Gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day Famotidine 10 mgs 2x/day]My biggest problem right now is feeding him. He won't eat a thing, and he hates taking the medicine. I have tried putting a pill down his throat, but he struggles to the point of further injury. I ground it up and put it in water, then squirted it down his throat he slung it out, and I am not sure how much he got. I put it in peanut butter, but he hates peanut butter, and won't eat anything. This is a horrible dilemma.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 19, 2017 7:43:42 GMT -7
Gayle, glad you have joined us all here! Welcome! When you can, do give it a try to register so you can login. That makes it easier for you to post AND it allows us to best tract Elmer. I would not grind up any of the pills as they can be very, very bitter. Meaning once Elmer gets that bad taste it will take a conserted effort to gain his trust again. THREE PILL TREAT methodPut the pill into the well of a small mashed banana ball, a cream cheese ball, liverwurst ball or inside of a sticky small marshmallow and sealed completely so no pill dust taste is on the exterior. Use the three treat method. Prepare 2 treats with no meds inside PLUS the med ball. 1. Give plain treat while holding the med ball in front of eyes. The idea is Elmer will be greedy after the first treat to get the 2nd. 2. Immediately hold the 3rd plain treat in front of his eyes so he will hurry to swallow the med ball to get to treat #3. In preparation for his regaining your trust. Throughout the day give him a a similar small version of the non-pill treats. This way he can learn that these special treats are safe and do not taste bad. Be sure if you are splitting a pill, that you wash your hands to avoid transfering any pill dust to the outside of these special treats. PILLLING a dog.It is important that he get his meds, of course. Hopefully you will have good success with the three treat method. This demonstration by a vet shows you the trick for putting a pill down the throat quickly if need be; Can you tell us how Elmer is doing pain wise today. Any signs nearing his next dose of the pain med gabapentin? ~~ doesn't turn his head but rather only moves his eyes left/right to watch things? ~~ Yelps, shivers when he tries to reposition himself in his recovery suite Does he have bladder control? This is a very important health issue to know. If you find urine leaks in his bedding or he leaks on you, that is loss of bladder control and the need to learn how to manually express the bladder to keep urinary tract infection from staring. If he can sniff an old pee spot in the grass and then release ursine that is bladder control. Let us know what you are observing. The single most important care you can give other than making sure he is not in pain is the 100% STRICT rest 24/7 for the full 8 weeks. That means that transporting to laser or acupuncture may be a risky thing to his damaged disc. Movement of the back or the neck can cause worse damage to the disc and then transfer to damaging the spinal cord.... making it possibly for there to be permanent paralysis. Weighing the benefit to be gained from transports has to be weighed against the risk. REASONS for a SPECIALIST CONSULT~~ If Elmer's pain is not being controlled by one pain med (gabapentin) and your local DVM vet is not comfortable in prescribing the right combo of pain meds. So again the risk to the early healing disc with a transport to a vet visit has to be weighed for the benefit. If you are not doing surgery, if Elmer's pain is in control, then what is the benefit to seek a consultation with a specialist. That money could perhaps be used on a recovery suite that is more suited to Elmer's needs. RECOVERY SUITEsA plastic crate without the top on is a potential danger. Even with the top on most dogs do not like the less visibility. Consider these ideas.
~~ An ex-pen for better ease for you in caring for Elmer.
~~ A wire crate. You could put castors on it and have the ability to roll it to which ever room you are in to keep Elmer near you.
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Post by Gayle Mullins on Jul 19, 2017 10:13:55 GMT -7
New Forum account: dodgerslist.boards.net/user/5546I will try the treat method. He hasn't taken any food yet though, so I don't think he will take it, and I will have ruined his meds. I did find the video helpful. No vet has ever taught me how to do that. I do not understand why they haven't. Thank you for the information. At this time, I am reluctant to move him out to the yard for potty. I am putting tissue paper under him to avoid moving him at all. I spend every minute with him, so I can watch how he is reacting to the meds, and I am so upset that I now need medication. I can't tell if Elmer has bladder control. I think he tries to hold, but I am not sure. He doesn't seem to be in pain. He just rests. I think after struggling with his idiot owner to get meds down him, he just goes to sleep. I will send a picture via email, Paula. He is in his crate which is open on the top. He has towels under him. His crate is on my bed where he and I are resting together. I want to watch him and be able to stroke him.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 19, 2017 11:48:53 GMT -7
Gayle on this Friday 7/21, the test for pain prednisone taper will begin. There has been a 5-day course of pred prescribed and then a reduction, a taper. Gabapentin would be stopped or backed off so that this pain masking pain med will not interfer with your ability to give a prompt and accurate report to the vet. If pain, then all meds are back on board. If no pain then, the taper continues to conclusion. 1. Which does your vet want at the start of the Pred taper on 7/21--- backing off gabapentin or a stop? Let us know which 2. If you are seeing any hint of pain before the scheduled taper this Friday, then obviously no test for pain taper is needed. Your vet would need to know if you are seeing pain so that she can extend prednisone. Sometimes the course will be for 5-7 days or could be for 14 days. 3. If Elmer is releasing urine in his bed, is that because he is in so much pain you can't care for him properly to take him outdoors for the sniff and pee test? Why are you reluctant to carry him to and from the potty place? You should be taking him outdoors every 2-3 hours while he is on pred for a potty break. Carry your dog to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very, very few limited footsteps with his front legs. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep his back aligned and butt from tipping over since his legs are not working well. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!
4. If he leaks on you when lifted that is a very sure sign he has lost bladder conrtol. He may already have a bad urinary tract infection. If you observe him leaking on you, then today would be the time to get a urinalysis, see if there is infection and start antibiotics before infection would be in danger of moving up to the kidneys where it can become life threatening. You are learning so many new things here, it may be a bit overwhelming and stressful. Do know it has been the same for each of us. I'll bet you'll find as we all have that it may take a week or so til you get in a good routine that all settles down to be your new normal and gives you much relief from stress. The important things to do now, today, are: ~~ verify if he has bladder control with the sniff and pee test, if not go into get a hands on top of your hands bladder expressing lesson. First reviewing the video will allow you to get more out of the lesson at this link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmYou can express for poop. Easily learned by just watching the video here www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poop~~Touch base with your vet in any event to know which she wants on the pred taper this Friday - backing off gabapentin or a full stop on 7/21.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 19, 2017 14:24:28 GMT -7
Elmer turns his head fine. There seems to be no problem with his frontal area. He last pooped yesterday, but since he has eaten nothing, he has not pooped since. Getting ready to try the pill procedure on the video to administer the famotadine 30 minutes before the Prednisone.
The meds in a piece of marshmallow worked!! I am so thrilled!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 19, 2017 14:35:21 GMT -7
Great news with the marshmallow. It will make it so much easier if he takes his medslike that.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 19, 2017 14:36:07 GMT -7
Gayle, isn't that the best news, marshmallows for Elmer!!! Yeah!!! Now that he is taking his meds ok, it is time to focus on if he has bladder control and about the test-for-pain prednisone taper this Friday. The important things to do now, today, are: ~~ verify if he has bladder control with the sniff and pee test, if not go into get a hands on top of your hands bladder expressing lesson. First reviewing the video will allow you to get more out of the lesson at this link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmYou can express for poop. Easily learned by just watching the video here www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm#poop~~Touch base with your vet in any event to know which she wants on the pred taper this Friday - backing off gabapentin or a full stop on 7/21.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 19, 2017 14:36:19 GMT -7
If transporting Elmer to the vet is dangerous, I am keeping him completely still now while at home, so he hasn't been moved in 12 hours. I am just changing his pee pad without moving him.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 19, 2017 14:44:43 GMT -7
You can bring in a urine sample to the vet to have them run a urinalysis. I really, really do not believe he has bladder control
IF a dog who is overflowing when his bladder reaches the overstretched point, the reflexes will kick in. The problem is not all the urine is released. The part that remains very quickly in days will develop into a bladder infection (UTI). A UTI not treated can move up to the kidneys where it can become life threatening.
Do you have a friend who would drive a urine sample to the vet for you if you don't drive yourself? Call your vet ahead of time to learn how they would want you to collect urine.
If he has not moved at all in 12 hours, has not shifted sides, turned around, the he IS in pain. We aren't there to observe so we are just like your vet, you are his eyes and ears. We, too, depend on all the itty bitty details of what you see. Otherwise we are in the dark. Let us know if Elmer does move his body himself in his crate from time to time during this last 12 hours. To lie still without moving would most definately be a sign of pain.
EAch vet visit needs to be weighed. What is the benefit? What is the risk. IF he has no bladder control then the benefit of learning how to express and getting infection delt with before it becomes deadly is what you do...go to the vet for help.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 20, 2017 6:37:01 GMT -7
Elmer drank water twice during the night, and this morning I took him out to potty. No poop yet, but . Not the sniff test because he is struggling with his new situation, and the ground was wet. I held up his back end and pressed on his bladder.
The good news is that he ate a little chicken and rice this morning! I put it in front of him and left the room. He ate all I gave him which was about a quarter cup. Hoping it will stay down and he will digest.
Today I am going to look online for an ex-pen.
[Post by Gayle & Elmer on July 19 via mobile] I saw the video and will have a vet lessen tomorrow when we have to go.
He has shifted sides. He is not showing any signs like yelping or crying, but I haven't tried to move him in or out in the crate. I just change his pad so he doesn't have to be moved.his urine does not seem infected, no strong smell, etc. He is drinking water and now he has drunk some milk. I got his stomach pill and Prednisone down him with the marshmallow, but he would not eat the marshmallow with the Gabapentin.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 20, 2017 8:51:09 GMT -7
Gayle, are you stlll scheduled for a neuro appt today where you could get a hands-on-top-of-your-hands expressing lesson? Expressing is a new skill so you DO want that hands on lesson to improve the speediness of learning how to get all the urine out. That takes knowing how the bladder feels and where it can slip to as it starts to empty. When Elmer's bed stays dry expressing session to session every 2-3 hours, then you know you have learned to feel that last stage. One hand can almost feel the fingers of the other hand the bladder is so flat, so void of urine, Not all UTIs will have observable foul odor, change in urine color, etc. That is why a dog who has not been expressed when they don't have bladder control, very likely develop bladder infection. Does Elmer regularly drink milk? IF not, best not to give milk as many dogs are lactose intolerant. He doesn't need any more issues on top of all he is dealing with. I'm glad you are searching for a recovery suite that will be better for Elmer and easier for you to care for him as well. Is Elmer inside of his current recovery suite when you feed him? Let us know how pill giving time goes today. You can make some DIY bowl holders to attach inside the recovery suite:
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 20, 2017 13:55:44 GMT -7
Actually the neuro is scheduled for next Thursday. Today he saw the laser therapist and the vet. She showed me how to express urine and anal. He had the beginning signs of a UTI and she gave him an ✚antibiotic injection that lasts two weeks.
[21 lbs Prednisone as of 7/16: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days then test for pain taper Gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day Famotidine 10 mgs 2x/day ✚Convenia ]
She administered his three pills and showed me how to get it done. I hope it is that easy for me in the following 8 hours. I now have a cart for his plastic crate! It works great. No more back strain. Elmer is resting nicely now.
Elmer stays in his current recovery crate 24/7, and he did eat from a bowl this morning. When he is inside the house, I take the top off of the crate, so he is accessible.
I love the DIY plastic cup idea.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 20, 2017 14:04:52 GMT -7
I am glad that you got the hands on lesson in expressing. Expressing can be a bit tricky to learn and we all get better with practice. Once you become proficient at expressing, taking care of Elmer will be much easier.
Let us know how the expressing goes later.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 21, 2017 8:51:13 GMT -7
Pain capsule went down ok just now .Next one due in 8 hours.He seems to be in no pain, but hates his predicament. Prednizone and famotadine went easily with a marshmallow earlier. The vet did not recommend a belly band to keep him dry. She said infection was a problem with those.
I forgot to ask. I will call tomorrow. Thanks for the videos, too.
Elmer ate chicken and rice three times thus far. He drinks water without the syringe now. He cannot control his urine as he peed some on me. He would not let go of his urine when I took him out. Trying to get him to take pills this morning with the marshmallow. He turns his back to me. He has scooted out a little from his crate. I will send a picture via email. Calling the vet next, and will let you know what she says.
I spoke with the vet about tapering the Prednisone and Gabapentin, but she said to continue giving both
[21 lbs Prednisone as of 7/16: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days as of 7/12: 5mgs 2x/day for ? days Gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day Famotidine 10 mgs 2x/day Convenia ]
Elmer scooted out of his crate to be on the bed this morning. That was a first. He is using his front legs only. He took Famotidine and Prednizone but not his pain capsule. I am going to try to give to him now. I really need pee pads. I am washing my soft towels every time he has a spill. I really think bladder control is a big issue now. No bowel movement yet. I am pressing where the bladder is, but his tummy is hard so I can't feel it now.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 21, 2017 8:55:15 GMT -7
Gayle, make sure the priority is that there is no way at all that Elmer can "scoot out of his crate" Limited movement is the goal in order for the disc to heal. Any time he needs to be out of the crate, you would lift him and put him where you want him to be so you can express his bladder. No scooting is allowed at all. For how many more days does the vet want prednisone to be used at 5mgs 2x/day? I am glad to hear that he is eating and drinking now. That is a much better indication Pepcid is now able at 2x/day to suppress stomach acids. When you can, transition back to the more nutrious kibble. Chicken and rice is not a balanced diet--- only for a couple of days use. When his bladder is full you would not feel the shape of the bladder. As the bladder would fill the entire tummy area. To help Elmer relax his tummy muscles before expressing, hold a warm from the dryer towel against his tummy area. A gentle jiggle of his tummy muscles can also help to relax his tummy muscles. When the bladder is full, just the pressure of lifting can cause release of urine on you! Same when you press on the tummy area when expressing, should be easy to cause release of urine. It is when the bladder starts to empty that you do need to feel around for where the bladder is to trap it wth both hands. Re--reviewing the video is helpful. And don't hesitate to go back and express in the vet's clinic. Then have the vet tech check your work and give you some helpful pointers. VIDEO here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmADDED info True belly bands are not a good idea because of urine scald to the skin. The key is learning to express so that he will stay dry session to session. Are you trying to express every 2-3 hours while he is on prednisone?
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 21, 2017 9:13:17 GMT -7
As soon as I have a baby sitter for him, I will go get pee pads unless you have a better recommendation. I have taken him out three times but no urine could be expressed. He is freely letting go of urine on his towel which I change several times per day.
The chicken and rice is supplemented with green peas and sweet potato plus some Paul Newman dry food. Just glad he eased into the bland diet for the past couple of days.
Yes, I am trying to express, but we need to synchronize pee schedules.i really need a home visit from an expert.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 21, 2017 9:52:19 GMT -7
While we do not recommend belly bands, sometimes for a short period of time they could be used while you are learning to be proficient with expressing. Any rectangle of cloth can be the belly band. Doesn't have to be fancy and doesn't matter if edges ravel abit. Cut out with a scissors from an old towel or old pillowcase. Adhere a sanitary napkin. You would secure it closed with duct tape, a safety pin. If you sew, then velcro as an easy closure. Easy to feel if napkin it has become damp and change it out. Do you have his mattress set up to make maintenance easier while you are learning to express? The tip below plus many other wonderful tips from our supplies list here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies.htm__ Blankets and change of bedding: 100% synthetic (no cotton) Fleece fabric as a bottom sheet wicks moisture away from skin (have 2-3 on hand) and dries quickly in the dryer or outdoors in the disinfecting sunshine.
Inexpensive synthetic fleece throw can be cut to sizes at Big Lots, Walgreens 2/$10. You can buy fleece yardage at JoAnn Fabric Store or the like. This is a no-sew project as fleece does not ravel.
Layer in this manner: Trash bag enclosed mattress, pee pad on top, fleece bottom sheet tucked in all around the mattress.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 22, 2017 9:36:17 GMT -7
Update on Elmer and Mom. I am very sick with bronchitis, Elmer is behaving more like himself. He barks at noises, responds to friendly visitors. He pees on his pee pad, and he let's me know when he has to poop. He loves attention, so I stay right by his side. Thankfully I have no place I have to be, and with bronchitis, we are both in the bed. I keep him hydrated. He is eating normally. Monday we go back to get more laser therapy on his spine. Thursday is the neuro consult.
I love the expen. Great ideas come from this sight. I got plenty of pee pads that I can use and toss for a while. Next appointment is Monday.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 22, 2017 11:48:53 GMT -7
Gayle, I'm so sorry to hear you are sick, oh boy.
Now about Elmer. Sounds like he is getting meds on time and is out of pain with his feeling like his old self again. Good work, Gayle!
Can you be specific about what "peeing on the peed pad" means?
~~ Are you expressing his bladder on the pee pad? Does his bedding then stay dry expressing session to session every 2-3 hours? We LOVE to hear every detail.
~~ OR are you lifting him out of his recovery suite and placing him on the pee pad. He doesn't leak on you when lifted. Instead he can wait til on the pee pad and then he releases urine? That would be proof he now has bladder control
A word about the decision for laser therapy. As you know anytime Elmer is out of his recovery suite is a danger for the healing, still weak disc. Since meds are working to control pain, you have to consider the risk to his disc with transports. Even the risk to go for laser light therapy
What is the benefit to be gained if pain is in control with a neuro consult? The reason to seek a consult is if pain is not being control. I sounds like you would need to give consideration in canceling the Thursday neuro appt.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 22, 2017 16:12:11 GMT -7
The laser therapy is very easy. I never have to move him. He stays in the base of the crate and she rolls the laser over his spine. It stimulates nerve endings and helps the healing process.
I keep a pee pad under him. I cannot express the urine. His belly is very tense when I take him out so I cannot feel his bladder. He just wets and let's me know. I take away the wet one, wash him, and put diaper rash ointment on him. That's all I can do being as sick as I am. He is my "therapy dog" because I have MS, and I am sometimes confined to resting all day. He is my best friend. I don't know how to have him declared a therapy dog, but he is the best therapy for me. I cannot lose him, and I am looking for some place where he can get inexpensive rehabilitation for him. I cannot work with him to the benefit he probably needs.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 23, 2017 5:51:16 GMT -7
When you say that you're looking for inexpensive rehabilitation for Elmer, I do hope that you meant for after the 8 weeks of strict crate rest. He should just be resting and healing with as little movement as possible at this point. Can he move his legs at all and move around a bit in the crate to adjust his position? If he can move his legs and re-position himself, then he is keeping his muscles and joints toned. If he can't move his legs at all, then once he is off of all meds with no sign of pain returning, then we can give you some very light passive PT and massage that can be done. They're not too hard to do so hopefully you'll be able to manage them. But no PT at this point. A tense, tight belly could be a sign of pain. Do you see any other sign of pain, such as shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, nose held to the ground, head held up high, arched back? If you're taking him outside to express, the excitement of being outside can sometimes make it difficult to express. If you haven't already been expressing inside, try to express inside on a pee pad. Or if you can, lean over the crate since you mentioned you can take the top off and express him on a pee pad which you can then remove. Use a warm towel from the dryer to help him relax. Tapping lightly on the belly may help him to relax. Regular expressing of the urine from his bladder is the best way to keep the bladder healthy and avoid UTIs. I know you're not feeling well right now but when you feel better, do take a look at our page on expressing for more tips: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmYou can also speak to the vet about prescribing some medication to relax the sphincter muscle to make it easier to express. Be sure the diaper rash ointment doesn't contain zinc. Zinc is poisonous to dogs if he were to lick it off. Decaf green tea is very good to use to wipe his belly and legs with. Green tea neutralizes the acidity of the urine so helps avoid urine burn/scald and leaves a nice fresh scent. Just brew up a pot of decaf green tea, let it cool and dampen a cloth to wipe his belly and legs. The leftover tea can be stored in the refrigerator and then re-heated when used. You're not going to lose Elmer. You're doing the best you can for him. Hang in there and stay positive. I do hope you feel much better soon.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 23, 2017 7:42:24 GMT -7
He can move himself around inside the crate and adjust his position. I see no sign of him moving his back legs at all. He does Yelp if he is moved or just touched sometimes. My problem is that I cannot get his Gabapentin capsule down his throat. I need help.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 23, 2017 7:57:25 GMT -7
Gayle, you are right, you do need help. With bronchtis on top of MS, you are in a challenging situation.
The friend that takes you to the vet, would that person be able to lend you a hand to get over this period of challenging time with Elmer?
We always can help much better if we have specifics. --- what part of the getting the Gabapentin in him is not working? - he won't be tricked any longer with the three treat method? - he won't allow you to physically push the pill down his throat as the video showed? As your vet demonstrated? - Is your ability to give the pills impaired by MS in any way?
Instead of spending money on laser therapy, if money is tight that money may well be better spent on helping Elmer with protecting his bladder. His bladder is continually overflowing as it reaches the stretching point and his reflexes allow some of the urine to escape (overflow). This is a danger to Elmer not just for bacterial infection. Continued overstretching will ruin the tone of his bladder so that when the brain can connect and send messages, the bladder will no longer work properly.
Can you call your vet, explain your health issues. Inquire if there is a vet tech you could hire to come to your home to express Elmer, show you again how to get meds down the hatch? Hiring a vet tech may be in your budget, never know if you don't ask.
Is there a neighbor close by, a church member, a teenager who would like to earn some money? Would they be wiling to learn how to express, helping pilling Elmer?
I'm just trying to think of all kinds of possiblities, hoping that one of them will be workable for you thereby getting Elmer the help he needs.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 23, 2017 8:06:05 GMT -7
I will call the vet and see if I can hire a tech. That is a good idea. I may have to stop or delay the laser treatments because I am too sick to go. Thank you!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 23, 2017 8:17:12 GMT -7
We always can help much better if we have specifics. --- what part of the getting the Gabapentin in him is not working? - he won't be tricked any longer with the three treat method? - he won't allow you to physically push the pill down his throat as the video showed? As your vet demonstrated? - Is your ability to give the pills impaired by MS in any way?
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jul 23, 2017 8:19:16 GMT -7
Hi Gayle, Sorry to hear Elmer is having pain issues and that you're unable to get him to take the meds that will help relieve his pain. Pain management is so important for overall healing so it's necessary to get this under control.
Our Chloe was also difficult when it came to taking pills. One method, l learned, is to put the medication in a yummy piece of cheese or peanut butter. There are some soft "pill pocket" treats you can buy. They are expensive, but an option if other treats don't work.
Some dogs are resistant even then. If Elmer is, you could try giving him one or two pieces without the pill and sneaking the pill in when he thinks it's just a another treat. Another trick I used with Chloe was to give her the pills in treats right before a meal when she was hungry. I've also used a finger to tuck the pill behind her tongue, but that was always the last resort as it's not pleasant and she would struggle and oftentimes spit it out. Chloe had pancreatitis not IVDD, so I did not have to be as concerned about excess movement. With an IVDD dog, like Elmer, you would need to be very cautious and if you know he's likely to squirm do not try that method.
Luckily, for us, our IVDD dog, Buster, takes pills either in his food or tucked into a treat.
Hope that helps and hope Elmer starts feeling better soon.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 24, 2017 19:01:32 GMT -7
Thank you! I have an update. I got several injectable doses of Prednizone that I will administer myself every two days. The reason I couldn't get the Gabapentin down his throat is that the capsule stuck in his throat. Today we explored several ways to do it. We settled on coating the capsule with a little piece of chicken flavored Pill Pocket, putting it in his throat and squirting some water inside his mouth. The water makes it slimy so it slides down. I also discovered that it isn't my fault that I can't feel his bladder. Two other techs tried it and they said he is too tense. He is emptying his bladder every 10 or 20 minutes as I constantly give him water. He is no longer throwing up. He ate supper and held it down! They think he might have feeling in his feet. He can wag his tail, and the vet said that's a good sign. Thank you for all this support! I am overwhelmed with all the information, and extremely grateful.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 25, 2017 10:47:04 GMT -7
Gayle, when you get the chance, would you bring us up to date on the new details of his meds? Sounds as though the vet is having you taper off of prednisone with an every two day injection. Is the exact name of the injection "prednisone"?
21 lbs Prednisone as of 7/16: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days as of 7/12: 5mgs 2x/day for ? days was he taking Prednisone injections at home as of 7/24: How many mgs each injection you do every two days? How many injection vials did you get? Gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day Famotidine 10 mgs 2x/day Convenia
Thank you very much for sharing that excellent tip of using a piece of pill pocket to pill and some water to make is slide down the throat.
How much water are you giving Elmer and how often does "constantly" mean?
Is Elmer's pain fully in control now? Are you feeling better enough that you can give hime the sniff and pee test to see if he has bladder control? Once a dog has the ability to give a joyful tail wag because you did some happy talk to him, the next nerves to self repair is bladder control nerves. It would be good every other day or so to bring him outside for the sniff an pee test.
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Post by Gayle & Elmer on Jul 25, 2017 11:59:37 GMT -7
Hi, sorry I forgot to update on the meds. Every two to three days I inject dexamethasone 4mg/.1ml under the skin. No other changes. No more Prednisone pills. They made him vomit.
Continual means more often than he has ever drunk water. As much as he will drink offered about every hour. I am constantly with him monitoring his pee pad.
He had a Gabapentin capsule yesterday with the Pill Pocket trick. None today, and no need for the Famotidine. I have another dog coming over today to do the sniff and pee test. When his mother, Heidi, visits and pees in the yard, he goes right behind her to mark his territory.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,567
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 25, 2017 12:25:35 GMT -7
Gayle, thank you for being very specific on the name of the steroid. Dexamethasone is 10 times more powerful than prednsione. It is notoriously known in the medical community for the damage that it does to the GI tract. Red flag signs start as not wanting to eat, vomit, loose stool, bleeding ulcer, blood in stool. So now MORE THAN EVER you do need to give Elmer the famotidine 10mgs 2x/day EVERY day. Dex is long lasting and it stays in the body for about 3 days.
Dex doesn't cause the thirst that Pred causes. So you may not see Elmer desiring so much water.
Dex is not given every two to three days. It has a definite day interval. Which did the vet want every 2 days or every 3 days?
How many doses of the Dex do you have? In other words trying to find out for how long it is to be used.
Am also trying to clarify how may mgs of Dex he gets in that injection. How many mL or CCs is in the injection?
You put a decimal point in the liquid. Is there really a decimal point in .1mL -->> 4mg/0.1mL ???
Look forward to the results of the sniff and pee test today!
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