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Post by Sandy & Harley on Jul 6, 2016 0:55:20 GMT -7
i am a new member and not so sure my message was received yesterday. Please let me know if it posted or if you have seen the story about our boy Harley. I really need to be a part of this forum.....and your tips and stories are so helpful. Thank you.......iluvdoxies (Sandy)
Moved to the Forum on behalf of Sandy
We have a 5 yr old doxie (Harley) who is 17 lbs. perfect weight for his size. We took him to the vet 3 weeks ago because he was favoring his back a little. The vet did X-rays and concluded that his t11/t12 were bulging. Harley was walking when we took him in, actually we thought maybe he had just pulled something. The vet put him on rimadyl and tramadol twice a day for 3 weeks and said strict crate rest 24/7. We have stuck with that plan to the tee and this past Friday, his meds were done. I called the vet and told him that Harley was about the same, perhaps a little better. Harley potties by himself and walks by himself to potty but we carry him out and then back to crate. His hind legs are weak but 3 weeks ago he would lift his leg to pee and fall slightly into the plant he was peeing on. Now he pretty much has control of that. Our vet said on Friday.....it's good news that he is not worse and he would like us to continue what we are doing for 3 more weeks, and as far as meds, he just wants us to continue the Rimadyl.
[16 lbs
rimadyl as of 6/10: ?mgs ?x/day for about 27 days
as of 7/1: ?mg ?x/day for ? days]
We have never seen Harley in any pain, nor has he whined or cried, except he misses his other doxie buddies. I am so happy to have a place to learn more about this issue with discs in dogs. I have always been very careful to keep their weight in check and we try to never allow them to jump off of couches etc.
I am just not sure where we headed with this. The vet said just as a precaution.....we may want to start a fund for for Harley in case he needs surgery.......it can run around 8k in our area.
Please give me any suggestions you may have.......and I was reading about the Pepcid a/c......should that be a concern for me. My vet has not mentioned that at all. Oddly enough....our vet has a dachshund that has wheels, so I felt like we're in good hands. Thank you for any help or tips you can give me.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 6, 2016 4:15:59 GMT -7
Sandy, I don't see any postings about Harley. Possibly you sent a private message to one of the moderators? I didn't receive a message myself. If you reply to this posting with Harley's story, we'll get it and respond. Looking forward to being of support to you and Harley.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 6, 2016 9:14:04 GMT -7
Sandy, welcome to the Forum. We are glad you found us! You know, no one knows how long to keep a dog on an anti-inflammatory drug. The only way to know when all the spinal cord swelling has been resolved is to make a guess and stop the Rimadyl. If the stop shows no hint of pain surfacing and no diminishment of neuro function, it has done its job is accomplished and there is no need of any medications. If there were to be pain or regression of nerve function, then everyone knows Rimadyl has more work to do. No one wants to use any of the anti-inflammatory drugs one bit past the benefit point (all painful cord swelling is gone). To use these strong meds when there is no benefit left to gain, means the dog is subjected to only the adverse side effects. Often a vet will call for a prudent 7 or 14 day course and then a test for pain stop of the med. If there were to be pain, another course and another test for pain stop. Non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID) like Rimadyl carry some bad adverse side effects all owners need to be aware of and know the prompt action to take. The FDA has beautifully presented the facts owners need..well worth reading this one! www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htmAll anti-inflammatory drugs can cause GI tract damage without much warning. Stress the dog is under with change in routine can cause extra stomach acids. This is why we follow those vets who are proactive in GI tract protection during a disc episode and use of NSAIDs. Nausea, not eating, vomit, diareah can quickly lead to serious bleeding ulcers Pepcid AC (famotidie) blocks the production of stomach acid. The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) with a disc episode for doxies is 5mgs 2x/day (0.44mg mg per pound every 12 hours.) Get at the grocery store but FIRST do ask your vet in this particular way: Is there any health reason (heart, liver, or kidney) my dog may not take Pepcid AC (famotidine)? Know all about your pet's meds, reading IS important: www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html and marvistavet.com/famotidine.pmlDo let us know when the test for pain stop of Rimadyl is set for. At this point Harley appears to have been on an 18-day course of Rimadyl and now another 21 day (3wks) course? What is the date he started Rimadyl...guess is it was on 6/15. Has Harley had a blood test to verify health of organs to be on Rimadyl? 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks Sometimes everything is going along pretty nicely, the dog is not painful, getting around better etc, and it seems like what harm to let the dog out of the recovery suite, sit on your lap, walk around at potty time. The harm is too much movement! The early healing disc bursts open the rest of the way and the poor dog may be paralyzed for life. Just so you know 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out at potty times for 8 weeks is how the disc is able to heal and prevent damage to the spinal cord. It won't take much to bone up and get up to speed on your Harley's disease. Follow the button that pertains to the situation now at hand. As time permits in the next days, do check out all the colored buttons on this page for many happy years ahead of living with an IVDD dog. Today you will want to click the YELLOW button "Conservative Treatment: Overview essentials" at this link: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmYou may wish to bookmark Harley's thread here on on the Forum so you can return to it quickly to make a post.
Another kind of bookmark to receive an email alert when someone has replied
1. Go to your Profile> Profile Edit > Notifications: checkmark BOOKMARKS
2. Go to the XXX Board: checkmark your dog's thread, then use the ACTIONS button to select bookmark
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Post by Sandy & Harley on Jul 6, 2016 14:53:36 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie.....I look forward to being a part of the forum. This is all new for me and I appreciate any conversation on Harley's disc issue and learning from others.
We are just not sure what step is next....
[7/6 post MOVED to the Forum on behalf of Sandy]:
Harley first started rimadyl on June 10th.......along with the tramadol for his 2 bulging discs....t11/t12, I believe.
[16 lbs
rimadyl as of 6/10: ?mgs ?x/day for 27 days
as of 7/1: ?mg ?x/day for 21 days
Pepcid AC ?mgs ?x/day]
On July 1st the vet suggested since Harley was no worse and a bit better, we would continue for 3 more weeks of rimadyl, but not the pain med. I spoke to the vet today about the Pepcid a/c and was told it would be fine. Other than continuing the 100% crate rest, I'm not sure what to do. Harley is in good spirits, eating and pottying. He struggles a little on bowel movements. His little tail quivers as he is pushing....but always succeeds. And his tails wags as always. I just don't know what is next....besides patience !
Do we need to pursue any other treatments at this time or should we hang in there ? We still haven't seen any signs of Harley being in pain but we want to make sure we are doing everything possible. The vet said we could allow him to do limited walking on a leash, just for exercise.......and I would love to but I think it's best to keep him on crate rest, do you agree?
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 7, 2016 4:41:06 GMT -7
Since Harley is still walking, Sandy, he's a good candidate for conservative care. Just be sure to keep his steps to a very, very few at potty times. Too much movement and the damaged disc could tear more, causing pain and the possibility of nerve damage. It takes a full 8 weeks of strict crate rest for the damaged disc to heal. Think of the crate as a cast for the spine. Please do contact the vet this morning to get Pepcid AC on board to help protect Harley from the side effects of the Rimadyl as Paula recommended. That's very important as you don't want Harley to have more problems to deal with. Read all that you can about IVDD so you're armed with the knowledge you need to fight this disease. This link is a great place to start learning: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmWe're here for you and Harley and will help you through this. Healing prayers for Harley. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 7, 2016 8:11:35 GMT -7
Sandy, let us know if you now can post to the Forum with your iPad by clicking wherever you see a reply button. Clicking on a Moderator's blue link name sends to a private mailbox---these are not checked in a timely manner at times plus others are left out of the loop on information.
Good job on getting Pepcid AC on board for the time Rimadyl is in use.
Rimadyl will not help nerve function with weak legs. Nerve function heals on its own..there are no meds to help nerve healing. Rimadyl has only one purpose with a disc episode... to resolve spinal cord swelling.
I am concerned with the use of Rimadyl, however, with the data you have relayed. No one wants to use Rimadyl beyond its purpose of resolving all painful spinal cord swelling. No one knows how long to use Rimadyl without doing a test for pain stop of Rimadyl. With a disc episode we observe 1000's of vets making a guess the swelling is all gone by stopping Rimadyl at a 7 or 14 day course. It appears that Rimadyl has been in use for 27 days since 6/10 and now another 21-day course of Rimadyl has been prescribed on 7/1.
Please discuss what it would hurt to do a test stop of Rimadyl to find out if Harley even needs it any more. If on the stop of Rimadyl any hint of pain surfaces then you and the vet know to try another course (maybe 7 days, maybe 14 days) and then another stop.
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Post by Sandy & Harley on Jul 12, 2016 14:02:48 GMT -7
So after getting your feedback about my boy Harley being on the rimadyl for another 3 weeks, I called the vet to see if they would go along with a test stop. The vet said yes, that would be fine but let's slowly wean Harley off the rimadyl. We gave him one a day on Friday, Saturday and Sunday instead of two. And now he is off all meds to see how he is doing. Oh and by the way we used Zantac (1/4 of a 75 mg once a day) upon our vets advice.
I must honestly say he is doing quite well. We have continued the 100% strict crate rest 24/7, other than potty time. Harley has much better stability in his hind legs and you would hardly know he has a problem. I am feeling very positive about his future and I will keep you posted. Your support here on the forum has already been invaluable.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 12, 2016 14:22:59 GMT -7
Great news that Harley is doing well off all meds. All that he needs now is the remainder of the 8 weeks of crate rest. Go Harley!
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Post by Sandy & Harley on Jul 26, 2016 16:12:31 GMT -7
So just a quick update on Harley......he has completed 6 1/2 weeks of crate rest and appears to be doing very well.
He has control of his hind legs and no longer loses his balance when lifting his legs to pee. The only problem I can see ahead
Is his rambunctious bottled up energy. The vet said yesterday that if Harley is doing well, there is no need to bring him back in.
He said to begin slowly walking him and getting him back to his old routine. We no longer have steps for our 4 doxies....since my husband built a beautiful ramp to the backyard.
Do you have any other suggestions for integrating Harley back to his previous life with his other doxie buddies? No couch, no big bed and no stairs...for starters. Do doctors usually want to follow up and see how the dog has improved? I appreciate that the vet is not wanting to charge me for a needless visit, but should there be a check of his progress? Thank you so much for all your help....it has made such a difference in Harley's healing.
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 26, 2016 21:38:50 GMT -7
Hi Sandy, This article about how to ease Harley back info life after crate rest graduation on August 5th should answer your question. Lots of information here: dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmIt's not a good idea to spring him from crate rest early.. We have found there are more relapses on those quitting crate rest early. When you leave the house it is best to crate Harley to protect him from being injured by his buddies until you know for a fact there is no aggression or good natured rough play that could injure him. IVDD can change pack dynamics as the IVDD dog can be attacked for being the weaker member of the pack.. Or the IVDD dog can become aggressive to protect himself.. That is the case with my Tyler who growls and snarles whenever he sees another dog.. He was friendly to other dogs before his diagnosis and surgery. It doesn't always happen in every case but it is wise to be cautious until you know for a fact that all dogs in the family are on good terms with Harley. That is wonderful you husband built a ramp to the backyard for Harley! It isn't necessary to have Harley checked unless he is having a relapse.. Most Vet's don't track progress of their patients.. I think it would be a good idea if they did, but as busy as they are they tend to focus on the sick pets that need their help rather than monitor those that have recovered. Thanks for the update! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 27, 2016 9:06:28 GMT -7
Sandy, do give high priority to providing all 8 weeks of strict rest so that the disc can heal. Dr. Becker, DVM, explains "During your dog's mandated rest time for recovery, her movements will be restricted, but her mind will still need stimulation. Teaching her tricks and games appropriate for her temporary physical restrictions will help relieve boredom." Sandy do make sure to choose only the activities that can take place inside the recovery suite and do not cause movement of the back: Dr. Becker's "Help Keep Your Pup Happy When She's on Crate Rest" and Dr. Horwitz' video demoing mind stimulation activities on the Dodgerslist "Emergency Crate Training" page: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm |
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Post by Sandy & Harley on Aug 21, 2016 5:07:36 GMT -7
I am so happy to say our boy Harley has made a great recovery. Harley did his 8 weeks of strict crate rest and has now been out for 2 weeks. Folks...I can't tell you how important it is to read this forum. Use all of the resources available on dodgerslist ! Thank goodness I found this group because my vet didn't guide me as to exactly what to do through the process. The crate rest and the recovery suite info is invaluable ! We stuck to it and did everything they said and it has paid off. Although we know, we are not out of the woods, and never will be. I took Harley to the vet the other day for a progress exam and he got a glowing report ! No more knuckling and walking with complete stability ! Good luck to everyone and thank you to Dodgerslist !!!!  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,565
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 21, 2016 7:21:02 GMT -7
Sandy, congratulations on completing all 8 weeks of rest for Harley! Most wonderful news that walking is back to normal now. After graduation there is a gradual working into more normal activity that you have probably already started? The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information for an idea how to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Also check out how to teach four paws on the floor! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmConsider making those home modifications so that you can reduce the stress on Harley's spine in the future. No more stairs, ramps up to furniture, or blocking furniture all together. All those ideas and more are in this link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/aftercraterest/furniture-blocker300.jpgWe invite you to help us, join our educational bandwagon about IVDD! Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal. We would like all of our members to pay forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate!
We depend on you. Here are two ways to help... -- "Share" our FB posts www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist-- Hand carry our literature to your vet especially our "Crate Rest Recovery" brochure for your vet's tool box. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you a free packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htmWe love it when members have a mind to pay forward and help another. We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team in any way that makes you happy. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal.
--- You've been there, and are doing it....if you see another member on the Forum needing support or information share what you know to be true or point them to one of our many IVDD articles. The "search box" on each page makes quick work to find the right helpful link: www.dodgerslist.com/-- We have store where you might find something you absolutely need! Our earnings go to paying for our webpage and literature to hand out. www.dodgerslist.com/store.htm-- Don't forget to add a photo to the gallery and 1-2 sentence caption. Give inspiration to others just starting a scary IVDD journey. Our annual calendar will be published this Fall. Directions to u/l here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendar |
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Post by Sandy & Harley on Sept 15, 2019 4:59:34 GMT -7
Just an update on our boy Harley. Its been 3 yrs now and he is doing wonderful. Thanks to dodgerslist, and following the conservative protocol to the tee, we got back our happy healthy doxie. Hang in there everyone and follow the protocol strictly, and it is possible. We make sure none of our doxies jump on or off furniture, built a ramp for outdoors and monitor their playtime (especially Harley) to stop any excessively rough play.
Thank you again Dodgerslist for all the great work you do !!!!
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