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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 2, 2015 18:06:47 GMT -7
Hi, I just joined today. We have three Daschunds but Sandy is the dog was diagnosed today and was immediately sent for surgery and is in recovery now. They removed two vertebrae to remove the pressure on her spinal cord. I am a bit overwhelmed at the moment but here is the rest of our information.
1 What breed? daschund What is your dog’s name? Sandy Your name, too? Sylvia
★2 Did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, Yes, degenerative disc disease by regular vet and sent to neuro immediately today She was immediately sent for surgery today, date of surgery? July 2 ★4 Is there still currently pain - yes, she just came out of surgery ★5 How much does your dog weigh? 19 lbs Please list the exact names of meds. None yet ★6 Eating and drinking OK? She didn't eat at all yesterday and barely drank either. Loss of bladder control also ★7 Currently can your dog wobbly walk? Not with rear legs move the legs at all? Only front legs or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? No wag ★8 Can your dog specifically sniff and squat: No control
We were told that we can call to check on her tomorrow and we would know more about her prognosis on Monday.
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Roy & Abbie
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Post by Roy & Abbie on Jul 2, 2015 20:18:50 GMT -7
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Post by Heidi & Hershie on Jul 3, 2015 18:36:08 GMT -7
Hi Sandy,
We joined Dodger's List a couple of weeks ago when we too suddenly had Hershie diagnosed with IVDD. Medicine wasn't enough and surgery was required. Hershie had her staples removed yesterday and is doing well. The people here have been a great help with information and comfort for the soul. We have 3 dachshunds currently as well. I've had doxies for almost 20 years and we have never had a problem before. It's been difficult, but it's getting lots better!
Praying Sandy is feeling better soon and the pain is resolving. The hospital has stronger medicine than at home so they can keep them comfortable!
A wire crate helped a lot and reading all of this information was so helpful. Post surgery things will change at home, but the good news is our puppies can get better! Praying for Sandy and her family. Best wishes, Heidi
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 3, 2015 19:51:04 GMT -7
Thanks for your kind replys cdrroy and heidiweber. I am still feeling extremely overwhelmed at this point and not feeling very optimistic about her recovery at this point. She did make it out of surgery ok, but he had to remove two vertebrae to relieve the pressure on her spinal cord. She must have been in pain for a long time and we didn't know. ? I was able to talk to the doctor again today and was told that she is comfortable and not seeming to be in pain earlier, but also that there hadn't been any improvement yet. They said that we should know by Monday if she will ever walk again.
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Roy & Abbie
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Post by Roy & Abbie on Jul 3, 2015 20:25:23 GMT -7
Hi Sylvia and thanks for the update It can seem overwhelming at first but IVDD is a disease of patience. Try to take it one day at a time and live in the moment, as Sandy does. Dogs don't regret the past or worry about the future. They live in the now. So enjoy each moment with your girl right now. She made it out of surgery OK and pain is under control so that's the first goal met! With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The goal of our Forum is to support you, to teach you how to look up things at the original source point (a credible and authoritative resource), question everything and read so you become the most important part of your dog's health care team. The unknown is simply a scary place. Are your ready to get up to speed on all things IVDD and fight the IVDD enemy, again? Excellent page to start with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmSandy had surgery yesterday (July 2) and Monday, 4 days after surgery is way too soon for your vet to say if she will ever walk again. Sure the surgery may have released the pressure on the spinal chord but there will be swelling caused by the surgery itself and anti-inflamatories are given to reduce the swelling - this takes time. Read some of the other posts, many will sound just like yours and as you read on you will be amazed how the dogs recover. Remember to print out the pages about what to expect discharge day. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm#dischargeHere is a list of questions to ask on discharge day, too. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/dischargequestions.htmHang in there - it will get better....Roy
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 4, 2015 16:33:18 GMT -7
Sylvia, I hope with all the emotions going on that you misheard what the surgeon said. There is no way anybody but those with a functional crystal ball would be able to know by Monday if a dog is ever going to walk again or not. First of all the surgical caused swelling and the temporary nerve setback will take about 2 weeks to resolve. THEN at that point you may have a better idea of the direction of healing. Nerves are the slowest part of the body to self repair. Think in terms of months rather than days. Dr Isaacs ACVIM (Neurololgy) says: "I also advise that at 2-4 weeks we are not seeing the end result of the healing process - this typically does not occur for 6-12 months and in some cases even longer." This answer plus many more in the interview Dr. Isaacs did for our IVDD community about surgery and what to expect post op: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmThank goodness the surgeon did not tell Bridget she only has til Monday to know if she will ever walk again. Dogs follow mother nature. They get on with the business of enjoying life while waiting on nerves to repair. For now getting post-op pain in control in order to move over to oral pain meds for at home, making sure she is stable are the priorities. So good news Sandy IS comfortable!
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jul 5, 2015 8:19:47 GMT -7
Ditto what the others are posting about whether or not Sandy will walk again. A few days after Buster's surgery his neurologist told us to get him a cart as he would never walk again. After he completed his crate rest and the vet approved it, we decided to get him a cart so he would have the freedom to move around. It really was the right choice because he loves his cart and seemed so thrilled to be able to be more independent. I also believe it reminded his muscles how it felt to be in a normal walking position. We continued doing the PT to keep his muscle tone and soon we saw signs of improvement. Then his hind legs began to move in a walking motion when he was in the cart. Today he is walking again. It's not perfect, but he gets around remarkably well after such a dire diagnosis.
Like your Sandy, Buster didn't show obvious signs of pain before he went down. I can't tell you how many times we wondered why we missed seeing the signs. But dogs a notorious for masking their symptoms and also having high pain tolerance.
It's too early to think in terms of "never". Hang in there and Sandy may surprise you with how determined she is to recover from this.
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 6, 2015 8:13:34 GMT -7
Thanks everyone for all of your kind words! I am holding out hope that she will respond favorably to treatment or at least be pain free. When I talked to them today they said that she is refusing to eat and turned her back to them because she is upset about being there. She is comfortable as far as pain wise, and she is not responding to deep pain at all. I was told that this is sometimes, and that she should be improving so I'm at least every other day. I was also told that I could come see her and bring her her food or snacks today so I'm going to do that in just a little bit.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 6, 2015 9:05:23 GMT -7
Sylvia, it is often the case that dogs heal much better at home where they are in familiar territory and with the ones they love. The criteria for discharge at about 2-5 days post op is that pain is being covered fully with oral meds which can go home with the dog. That the dog is medically stable. Do speak with them about getting a hands on top of your hands expressing lesson so that you can bring Sandy home. First review the video and tips so you will get more out of the expressing lesson: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htm Once home your local vet/vet tech can give you refresher tips and technique if needed.
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 6, 2015 13:49:18 GMT -7
Thanks Paula for your reply. I just got to see her and she's doing way better than I expected. She was excited and tried to scoot all the way across the counter. The doctor came in to talk to me and show me the Mileogram (not sure about the spelling?). Here's a whole lot of calcification and she had A space where three bones were totally calcified together we're nothing could move three which is where he thinks the paralysis came from. There was also leakage from some disc that he cleaned up. He said he usually sends them home like tomorrow but because of the extent that he had to clean up and everything was so extensive that he wanted to keep her probably another week so that they can start her rehabilitation. She did eat shortly after I got off the phone with them before I went and she also will now respond to this girl that works there since I went today. He did also say that there is some slight deep pain in her right rear leg what she had before but he said that he wanted to give it 4 to 6 weeks before he gave it any call on the prognosis or and or a wheelchair anything like that, but she absolutely cannot drag her rear legs anywhere. I can go see her anytime, so I am relieved to hear that for sure.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 6, 2015 15:52:51 GMT -7
Good news that there continues to be some deep pain sensation in the right rear leg. That means there IS potential for more nerve heaing to take place over time. With Sandy willing to eat and you being able to visit anytime, that should really lift her spirits during the upcoming rehab week. Do keep us posted, snap a photo at rehab or at the hospital. We'd love to include Sandy in our gallery! Where to upload: Directions here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendar
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 6, 2015 17:21:40 GMT -7
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Post by Heidi & Hershie on Jul 7, 2015 14:56:22 GMT -7
Thanks Sylvia. She's beautiful. I couldn't tell if she was an Isabella or a Chocolate based red on my computer screen. I saw her brown nose. Our Hershie is an Isabella and our Peaches is a chocolate based red, both have green eyes and brown noses! Praying she's well soon, Heidi
Sylvia,
She's beautiful! What color is she exactly? It's hard for me to see on my screen. Her eyes are beautiful. What a sweet baby! She's going to get better. Lots of get well wishes and prayers from Louisiana!
Blessings, Heidi
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 7, 2015 16:18:08 GMT -7
Thanks so much Chelsea! Same to your Charlie! I have been trying to search and read other posts but I am a grad student taking two summer classes AND I also have a very high needs child so trying to write four different papers and check on Sandy has been tough. I'm posting two pics from when I went to see her today. How is Charlie doing? Heidi I just saw your post now. I bet that they are both beautiful! I love that they come in so many colors. We have three: one Black and Tan, one dapple, and Sandy who is an Isabella fawn. u
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 8, 2015 17:09:13 GMT -7
Update on Sandy...she yelped in response to deep pain today in one leg! The vet is hopeful but suggested that I order or make a drag bag and said that she should probably come home next week. I am a bit anxious because they are doing things somewhat different than what I have read. They keep them ten days with complete crate rest, remove staples then let them come home to rest. Complete crate rest is not required they said she can sit on my lap some.
Still not regaining strength in her back leg muscles but they have started hydrotherapy and she loves it so I ordered her a lifejacket today for when she comes home so that she can still swim in our pool.
My Dad also offered to construct her a wheelchair so he is researching plans and reading about the best options too.
Can anyone tell me if they know of essential oils that can be diffused to help with our dogs? I am a Young Living consultant and I know some that they suggest but I want to know if any of you had success with them?
I'm glad to hear that he [Charley] is resting. He needs it to heal. I'm just getting really sad because I want her home with me.
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Post by Chelsea & Charley on Jul 8, 2015 18:25:02 GMT -7
Hi Sylvia, Thank you for the kind words, I've been thinking of you and Sandy as well and I hope she gets to come home soon. Charley finally settled down early afternoon and has been resting since. This whole thing is so scary Stay strong! My Charley is recovering from Surgery as well (went in on July 3rd) and we want to send lots of thoughts and prayers to you and Sandy!
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Post by Kayla & Remi on Jul 8, 2015 22:17:25 GMT -7
I hope Sandy gets better soon! My Remi had his surgery June 25th and I just got to bring him home yesterday July 8th! He too had a lot that had to be removed and difficulty getting his bladder under control but they also had a water treadmill there they wanted to get him on (I live 4 hours away from where he had to go to have the surgery). It was difficult being that far away, I only had a chance to visit once since it's so far but I can tell trusting the Dr was totally worth it because now he is back to his sweet self and is completely off any medication. He is not supporting himself or anywhere near walking yet but he does respond pretty well during range of motion exercises and that is so comforting to know they think he will make a full recovery just in weeks, or months time. We cooked him up a "recovery suite"-- an exercise pen with rolled up blankets boxing in the sides and I got a mesh covering for the top. We got ordered 5 weeks of crate rest so I was a bit worried how he would be whiny or what not but he actually is comfortable and hasn't made a peep! I hope your sweet Sandy gets the ok to come home soon but know and have comfort that maybe her being at the Vet is what is best at the moment. She will have lots of recovery time with you soon! I also put a few drops of lavender oil on the memory foam to help keep him calm and sleepy. :-)
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Roy & Abbie
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Post by Roy & Abbie on Jul 9, 2015 4:40:45 GMT -7
Hi Sylvia, In your post you wrote "They keep them ten days with complete crate rest, remove staples then let them come home to rest. Complete crate rest is not required they said she can sit on my lap some."
This is an extract from questions and answers about IVDD Surgery written by Dr. Andrew Isaacs, DVM, ACVIM (Neurology)
During the post-op healing process why is crate rest prescribed and for how long? Crate rest is important post-operatively to help prevent damage to the surgical site. If a dog gets too active bleeding can occur that leads to a hematoma (blood clot) compressing the spinal cord. Also, it takes 2-4 weeks for the rent/hole in the intervertebral disk to heal and seal over. So, if a dog gets too active post-operatively additional disk material can rupture and we are right back or worse than we were to to begin with. Therefore, it is very important to keep your dog strictly confined for 2 weeks and then after rechecking with the surgeon at 2 weeks devising a plan to slowly reintroduce activity. Lifelong, there needs to be a lifestyle change to minimize activities that can put the dog at risk at a later date in life.
- - Did your surgeon provide you with a plan to slowly introduce activity and if so what is the plan?
The safest place for Sandy is in the recovery suite, if she is on our knee and the door bell rings or she is startled by a sudden noise then she will leap off and you will be back to square one or worse.
When Abbie came home after surgery we had a 2 x 2 recovery suite (folded x-pen), after about 3 weeks and on advice from the neurologist we were told to enlarge the x-pen to 4 x 2 to allow a little more movement, a week later and again on advice from the neurologist we enlarged to 4 x 4.
Please keep us updated
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 9, 2015 10:57:00 GMT -7
1, make a drag bag and said that she should probably come home next week. === Often dogs do often come home in 3-5 days IF they have transitioned to oral pain meds for at home. A drag bag, scooting, etc may best be waited on til graduation day for two reasons. TAMU explains why to their clients: Many clients are confused as to why exercise restriction is often necessary after spinal cord injury in veterinary patients. While limited scientific study has been devoted to this topic, a period of exercise restriction combined with physical rehabilitation is believed to hasten recovery from spinal surgery and certain spinal cord injuries. Vertebral column injury and surgery can disrupt the normal stabilizing structures of the spine such as muscles, bone, joint capsules, and the intervertebral disk. Excessive, unrestricted activity after surgery or certain injuries can lead to vertebral column destabilization and prolonged healing of the injury site. .... Additionally, animals that are weak or incoordinated may accidentally traumatize themselves, leading to orthopedic and soft tissue injuries.
So scooting is not physical rehab and thus no need of the bag. Scooting or sitting on a lap can be a dangerous situation for a post-op dog who has not yet graduated. Dogs always do the unexpected and may set back all the good work of the surgeon. Proper expressing of both the bladder and for poop eliminates the need for a drag bag. 2. My Dad also offered to construct her a wheelchair. ==== It is best to wait til graduation day to best assess if a wheel chair at all is even needed. Wheels chairs if needed do need to be constructed so as not to do harm to an IVDD dog. www.dodgerslist.com/links/cart.htm Having some deep pain sensation bodes well for nerves to be able to self repair over time. 3. essential oils. ==== Lavendar for some dogs can set off siezures if they have epilepsy.
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 9, 2015 12:04:56 GMT -7
First...Sandy moved her rear right leg today! It is the one that she has had no feeling in since before the surgery. Could it be a reflex or do you think that maybe she is gaining feeling back in that leg???
Doxiemomofremi, I am glad to hear that Remi is adjusting well and was finally able to come home. The suit sounds great and I'm glad that he is comfortable and isn't whining.
Cdrroy, I read what Dr. Issac's said a few days ago, which is why I am said that I am concerned that our vet said something different. I know that different doctors do things different but I am more in line with what I have read here and being conservative and keeping her confined longer to make sure that the nerves are repaired.
Paula, as always, thanks for your help. The vet that told me to look at ordering a drag bag or wheelchair wasn't meaning for now. She was meaning to use after her post op when she is released. I was told that the reason that she will need the drag bag is because it is to protect her from getting scratched up if she doesn't regain the use of her legs. I'm a teacher and a special needs parent, so I like to be prepared for any situation, so I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. It is one of the ways I try to trick myself into thinking that I am in control of something in our life (haha). Does that make sense?
She hasn't even started any PT yet, just hydrotherapy. I did read the material about the cart a few days ago. I am just anxious for her to be able to come home on one hand because I miss her and I am a worry wart because she is such a mama's girl. On the other hand I think that she is getting more rest there now than she would here with my son here. This is just so hard and frustrating!!!!!
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 9, 2015 12:20:58 GMT -7
Sylvia, thank for the specificity on when a drag bag could be used and that is after crate rest has been completed. We have a lot of readers here and just did not want anyone to get the wrong idea. As you can see we are a group who LOVE the detail...it keeps us all on the right track. Depending on whether Sandy would scoot like a seal or frog like with legs in front you would then decide which protective garment to choose. I like the airy type protective garments opposed to bags where air circulation might be diminished promoting humidity. Check out some of these protective garments, make yourself they are pretty simple, find a sewist at your local fabric store who could make for you or buy. Check out #6 here www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmHydrotherapy is PT. Which kind is it in a swimming pool or an underwater treadmill?
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 9, 2015 19:51:23 GMT -7
Paula,
Thanks so much for your kind words and for sharing your knowledge. You are seriously a blessing for so many. I want to know the correct way to do things because I want her to walk again. Thanks so much for posting the links. I read on this site every day when I have time and I am nowhere near done reading the information.
Sandy is doing PT in the swimming pool. They say that she has "walked" the length of the pool and back each day. They are waiting for her staples to come out before they start another type PT due to how much bone had to be cut out, at least that is what I think that she was trying to say.
We have decided to put her in my office out of the way of foot traffic and most of the noise to keep her safer and calmer (we hope).
Also, you may know the answer to this...Sandy moved her rear right leg today! It is the one that she has had no feeling in since before the surgery. Could it be a reflex or do you think that maybe she is gaining feeling back in that leg???
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Post by Pauliana on Jul 9, 2015 21:11:52 GMT -7
Hi Sylvia!
It does sound like Sandy is getting feeling back in her right leg since she is moving it. Certainly a good sign for more nerve healing to come.
We had a crate or ex pen recovery suite in every room we spent time in (our office, bedroom and living room)as Tyler healed from his surgery. This way he didn't feel isolated and he could see we were right there with him and it eased his anxiety.
I hope Sandy is back home with you very soon.
Healing thoughts and prayers.
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 10, 2015 7:14:26 GMT -7
I just received a call from the doctor saying that I can go pick up Sandy!!! 9 hours ago: Thanks Pauliana, we can actually set her up more than one as well. That is a great idea. I am just ready for her to come home. She has been gone a week today and it seems like at least a month.
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 10, 2015 11:54:27 GMT -7
We are home and she is testing in her crate. I tried to express but got nothing so far. It has only been 3.5 hours though. We are taking her out for therapy and potty breaks every four hours during the day and otherwise she will be resting. I'm so nervous! She isn't hurting and is no longer on pain meds. Oh, and after the doctor gave me this long speech about how many of these he does and how he thinks she is doing "so-so" but he would feel a lot more excited if she responded to pain in both rear legs...not feeling extremely confident at this point, etc. so then they bring her in and...drumroll please...SHE HAS FEELING IN BOTH REAR LEGS and SHE TRIED TO TAKE A WOBBLY STEP TOWARDS ME!!! I'm so excited and hopeful now! I know that is journey is lifelong but I am praying for her to just be happy and pain free. I want her to walk again but I don't want her miserable. Thanks for listening.
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Peyton
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Post by Peyton on Jul 10, 2015 12:48:54 GMT -7
Great news, Sylvia! Stay with the program on strict crate rest, and celebrate every positive moment! Keep us posted!
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Post by Megan & Joe on Jul 10, 2015 14:00:52 GMT -7
I hope Sandy is doing well at home! It will be a rough adjustment for all, but you will get it and she will begin to heal don't give up hope of her walking again. It most definitely can happen!!! Good luck and good wishes your way.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 11, 2015 8:27:55 GMT -7
Sylvia, what did the surgeon direct for at home PT now that you are seeing she IS trying to take wobbly steps on land? Did the surgeon give you a more firm number of weeks he wants for crate rest (rest + his directed supervised PT) I would definitely give Sandy the sniff and pee test. Likely now that she can wobbly walk, she has some degree of bladder control. Take her out to an old pee spot and let her sniff and see if she will choose to release urine there. After she releases, do a quick express check until you are confident she voids fully at each potty break. Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions… We have a directory where you can share surgical costs: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting State: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments:
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Post by Sylvia & Pio on Jul 11, 2015 17:00:07 GMT -7
Hi everyone just wanted to check in today and give you guys an update even though I'm not at home because I had class in New Orleans today so I'm still not home. Sandy is at home with her dad and doing good today.
I will definitely fill out the questionnaire when I get home to let folks know what the surgery cost..
He recommended that we do hydrotherapy and PT at the same time that we take her out to express her urine. We are just lying her on her side and moving her legs in a walking motion. For hydrotherapy I'm just using a tiny treat to get her to walk all the way across the tub one direction and back a few times.
He said that he was not going to give up on hopes of her walking for a long time but he's looking for improvement during the first six weeks.
I also have some really awesome news to share. Yesterday when my son came home I had just taken that Sandy out of the bathtub and I was holding her in a towel. When he came in to see her to give her kisses on her head she wagged her tail back-and-forth at least six times I got so excited that I lost count!
I finally learned how to express her and now that I know it doesn't take long but it takes about four hours in between I think for her. Does that sound about right? I did take her out and let her sniff sniff around but then she just lay down in the grass but she did let me express her with no complaint.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 11, 2015 19:12:58 GMT -7
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