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Post by Chris & Dixie on Mar 17, 2015 18:58:47 GMT -7
3/9 was crate rest start dateIt was about three weeks ago that I noticed that my baby girl (4yo mini-dox / 9-10lb) wasn't right. She was shaking and didn't want to go up or down stairs. I took her to the vet (of course she was acting fine with some tenderness in her back) and she got an immediate prednisone shot and prednisone and tramadol to go. She also had her anal glands cleaned out and the vet said that it was bad. No further instructions from the vet other than the meds. Once I got home, she seemed to be pretty much her old self, so I assumed that her anal glands were the problem, so I let her do as many normal things as she wanted and carried her when she didn't. I did run through the weeks worth of meds, but by the end of the week... I knew she wasn't right. I took her again to a different vet, who gave me a sheet about IVDD, but nothing more. This vet added a muscle relaxer (Methocarbamol). Fast forward another week and trip out of town, she still wasn't doing that well. We took her to the vet again and they could tell where the problem was (Can't remember which part of the back, but the worst part for a doxie). Vet said a CT scan would be necessary and most likely surgery. We decided to wait and see. Dixie was back on the three drugs and we were told two weeks of kennel "jail", as my Dixie would call it. I did some research online, as I felt that surgery would be imminent and I would have no issues spending the money on her to get her better. I found this site and she is now on week 2 of crate rest and I believe that the conservative route is the best option vs. surgery. I do have to be honest. Dixie is in better shape than many of the puppers that I've read about on this site. She has complete bladder and bowel control, can walk around, wags her tail left/right and eats and drinks like a champ. Her issue is with balance on her left rear leg, which seems a bit like a drunk walking around at times. So far she hasn't really improved nor gotten worse, but I am determined to keep her on the 8-week treatment. She is just starting to cycle down on the prednisone, so we'll see how she does. I know that I am blessed with how limited her issues are, but I just want her to be back to her old self. I used to call her the "Secretariat" of mini-wiener dogs, as she used to run faster than any dog that I have ever seen when the treat jar is shaken outside to get her to come back into the house. Picture of Dixie below and one with her Rescue Brother Ernie (AKA "Big Ern") prior to her injury.    
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 17, 2015 19:51:54 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist Chris! First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your pretty Dixie to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm Sounds to me like Dixie is a great candidate for healing with conservative treatment. Most Vet's won't operate on a dog that can still walk. During the taper of Prednisone, discuss with the Vet about stopping the pain meds so a test for swelling can be made. Pain= swelling. If you don't see signs of pain, the taper can continue until the last dose and then no further pain meds would be necessary. If you do see pain, let her vet know right away so she can be restarted on her pain meds as well as the twice a day dose of the Prednisone (The anti inflammatory dose, once the taper starts it is no longer the anti inflammatory dose).. You might discuss with the vet what they would want you to do should the pain show up over the weekend when they are closed. Have a plan in place so she won't be in pain for very long. (Extra meds for example) In order to help you more, could you please answer these questions? ☐ Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)? ☐ So glad you started the all important 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks & only out at potty times for this current disc episode? …. STRICT means No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM)? ☐ Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. Your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds ☐ Please list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mg’s and times per day given? What was the start dose if a steroid, date of taper?
Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason for my dog not take Pepcid?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving doxie weight dogs 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the anti-inflammatory. ☐ Poops OK - normal firmness & color -no dark or bright red blood? ☐ If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs. Excluding an emergency of pain not being controlled or diminishment of nerve functions that require prompt vet help, we have excellent resources for many IVDD questions members have. While you are waiting for a reply, do check out our "All things IVDD" resources for getting the recovery suite setup to an overview of just how Conservative Treatment works: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmHealing thoughts and prayers! |
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Post by Chris & Dixie on Mar 17, 2015 20:13:56 GMT -7
Pauliana,
Answering your questions...
1) DVM (This was the third vet, 2nd at her normal clinic). I wish I would have been told by the first or second (The one that gave me the literature on IVDD) about crate rest, I would have done it immediately.
2) Only time she gets out of the kennel is potty time, which I keep her on a short leash (Pun intended) and when eating/drinking. Otherwise, it is back to the crate.
3) I don't think that she is currently in pain. When I let her out of the crate and carry her, she shakes a bit, but is also anxious to jump out of my arms and start moving around (Which she is obviously not allowed to do). No yelps or anything along those lines.
4) Meds
[9-12 lbs]
Prednisone - Initially [on what date... 2/25?] 5mg 2x/day. Tomorrow will be day 3 of only 5mg/day for her (I give it to her in the morning)
Methocarbamol - 62.5mg 3x/day (500mg pill cut into 8ths)
Tramadol - 50mg 3x/day (it does say 1/4 tab, so it may be only be 12.5mg 3x/day)
I have not given her any Pepsid, but have not seen any issues with stomach thus far.
5) No issues with poops. As mentioned she has full control of bladder and bowels. Poop has been a lighter color and not too firm (constipation) nor too soft.
Thanks for your support!
She's a great pup and so wants to be back to her normal life. She has a long ways to go before her eight weeks are up. I will be reaching out to the vet in the next couple of days to provide an update that he requested.
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 17, 2015 20:52:11 GMT -7
Hi Chris! All anti-inflammatories (steroids or NSAIDS) can damage the stomach and other parts of the gastro intestinal tract. Proactive vets don't wait til there is nausea, vomit, diarrhea, leading to serious bleeding ulcers from the extra stomach acids a steroid causes. The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) with a disc episode for doxies is 5mgs 2x/day (0.44mg mg per pound every 12 hours.) Get at the grocery store but FIRST do ask your vet in this particular way: Is there any health reason (heart, liver, or kidney) my dog may not take Pepcid AC? Pepcid is generally considered a safe-over-the-counter suppressor of stomach acid production for a healthy dog and good insurance. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. Know all about your pet's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htmwww.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.htmlLooking forward to Dixie having her fun life back too! |
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Post by Chris & Dixie on Mar 23, 2015 16:56:03 GMT -7
An update on Dixie... Her status remains the same, not better or worse. She is still in good spirits, eats/drinks/pees/poops on her own and wants to have the free reign of the place. She is starting week 3 of crate exclusivity. Her left rear leg still is a problem for her with balance, but I have not seen any leg crossing and her reaction to me flipping her paw seems a bit faster. Tomorrow will be a big day for her as I continue the tapering of the▼ prednisone. Tomorrow she will not have any as we are moving to every other day. I spoke with the vet and he recommended that we keep the tramadol (up to 3x day) and methocarbomal (3x day) at the same levels. Please let me know if this is a concern.
Thanks!
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Post by Pauliana on Mar 23, 2015 20:22:42 GMT -7
Hi Chris,
The only reason for concern during the taper is that the pain masking drugs are still being given so you won't know if the swelling in the spinal is gone or not. Pain equals swelling. The taper is actually a test to see if the swelling is gone or not. You won't be able to tell unless the pain meds are stopped or tapered down.
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Post by Chris & Dixie on Mar 30, 2015 16:43:14 GMT -7
Dixie is still plugging along. Now in week 4 of crate-rest. She is now pretty good about going back in... must be the bigger blanket that I put in there. She only has a few prednisone doses left (Every other day) and I have begun to ween off the Tramadol and Methocarbonal. No pain issues... still has the lingering "drunken back left leg". She is very happy and that tail wags like no other when she gets to go outside for her bathroom break. Unfortunately, now I have a second dog that is somewhat out of commission. Ernie (Black Doxie in the picture above) who we rescued last year was at the park with my ex-wife yesterday... he was bit by another dog and lost about a quarter of one of his ears. Another Emergency procedure, but he is all sutured up and is better today now that the anesthesia drugs have work off. He hates his cone. Makes for interesting logistics getting them both outside, fed, etc. We'll get through it and hoping both pups make it through their issues in good shape. Thanks to the board for the chance to talk about them.   |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 30, 2015 17:45:59 GMT -7
So sorry to hear about Ernie! You have your hands full for sure.
Very good news that the taper has been pain free so far with a reduction of the pain meds. Tramadol and Methocarbamol don't have to be weaned and can be stopped so a true test for pain can be made. As long as any pain meds are masking pain, there is no proof that the swelling is gone. If there is still swelling that the pain meds are masking, then the Prednisone needs to be returned to the anti-inflammatory level (original dosage) ASAP. It's the swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine that cause the pain and can also cause the nerves to die, resulting in nerve deficits. So it's important to find out if there is pain that's being masked by the pain meds. If the pain meds are stopped and the taper of the Pred finishes with no sign of pain returning, then no meds are needed any longer. Please speak to the vet about stopping both pain meds to see if pain returns.
Please continue to give the Pepcid AC 2x/day for as long as Dixie is on the Prednisone.
Prayers for a fully pain-free taper for Dixie.
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