Jen's Caspian 4/5 conserv, — NECK - Fr./Chi- GRAD: 5/31

Jen, welcome to Dodgerslist. Glad you are here. First thing is Caspian is in too much pain, simply can't be allowed.

Is he siezure therapy dog?

Did vet say he has a neck disc problem. Sounds like it because of not wanting to open his mouth to drink. These are the extras you can do at home www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htm

Call and tell of the very bad pain because meds are not lasting long enough and ask for a muscle relaxer: methocarbamol. Ask about gabapentin. Tamadol will not likley control pain unless Rx'd 3x/day.
As if there are any health issue why he may not take Pepcid AC 2x/day while on prednsone to prevent extra stomach acids.

Hello Jen, my name is Debbie. I agree with Paula, any pain is to much pain and you need to speak with your vet today about this. Tramadol used with a disc episode is normally prescribed every 8 hours and given on a schedule, so please ask about that. Caspian may not be getting enough in his system to control the pain plus the additional pain meds that Paula listed may need to be added to the mix. Also, my initial thought was a neck disc as well as Paula. Neck discs are very painful, even more so than discs lower in the back, so he very well may need a variety of pain medications.

Please ask about the Pepcid AC and get it on board immediately, the prednisone causes tummy upset and the Pepcid helps with that and you might even want to get an additional stomach medication on board, Sucralfate. Sucralfate does not negate the extra stomach acids that the NSAID or Steroid causes. Sucralfate works to gel coat when a damaged area of the stomach appears. Since Caspian is refusing to eat makes me think he has stomach upset.

Try boiling up a hamburger patty in a cup of water. When cool remove fat disc. The broth can be used to soak kibble and then sprinkle 1 teaspoon of the crumbled meat on top for even more tastiness!

Please keep us posted and talk to your vet today about the pain, pain hinders healing.

Talked to the vet:
She suspects neck due to his refusal to drink on his own, but before that presented suspected lower back. There have been no images taken, but when he was first injured he was tender about an inch or so above the tail. I'm not sure if I ever gave his age, but he is 3 and will be 4 April 1st.

Meds are now:
[22 lbs]
Pepcid - 10mg 2x daily
Tramadol - stay at 50 mg 2x daily as it is lasting longer than 8 hours
Prednisone - 10mg 2x daily
Gabapentin - 20mg 2x daily

In other news, he moved his tail today. When I lifted him to clean and change his pad he moved his tail up and down, which he couldn't do yesterday. He also barked at the door, which he has not done since Tuesday, and having chihuahua in him this was his favorite past-time.

He seems to be pain free, he is laying in a relaxed state and not rigid anymore, with his head laying loosely instead of tense. He is also demanding attention and pets, and ate a small piece of chicken.

Thank you all so much, already, I've learned a lot today and will keep going for my little buddy.

We haven't taken him outside because I am so afraid to move him. He cannot use his back legs at all, if he is uncomfortable he will try to move using his front end only and try to position himself in a sitting position. Where his hind legs are straight out in front of him and his front are on either side of them. The only tail movement I've seen was the up and down when I had him lifted to change his pad, my son says that he moved it slightly when he was petting him earlier.

He doesn't seem to be dribbling, he is peeing, but it's not a little bit at a time, it's the roughly the same amount as he would before. He isn't leaking on me if I lift him. I just don't like moving him because he'd get so rigid, I'm hoping the new med regiment will help this.

Question, if the new meds are controlling the pain, will that also mean he won't be in pain when I move him? I am just so terrified to move him more than to adjust his position so he doesn't get sore, afraid I'll undo any healing.

I've expressed a cat before, but never a dog. Part of why this is so stressful is my niece's cat lost use of her back legs after a car ran over her tail and she tried to run away. She, unfortunately, did not make it. The nerve damage was too severe. So, of course, my son immediately made connections between the two.

Thank you, that makes me feel better about being able to move him at some point!

I have washable chuck pads that I am using on top of a waterproof pad. I'm checking every half an hour or so for wetness and changing as needed, and wiping him down if he's wet at all. He doesn't like this of course and tells me all about it with a look.

I'm concerned he may not have control over it. We have a harness and we will make something to hold his hind end up so we can try this tomorrow. What are the signs of a UTI to look out for?

We talked about it, he understands that Cas may never have use of his back legs again. Honestly, at first we didn't even know that healing and regaining use was even possible. His biggest concern was Cas not making it period. We are completely fine if he needs wheels some day. We'll just put some mini ramps up for him on the porch. Right now, we are concentrated on getting his pain completely under control. So far the tramadol with the gabapentin seems to be working. But man does he hate the tramadol, he will take every other pill no problem, but he bites me with the tramadol. And if I try to put it in a treat, he digs it out.

Update for today:

Thank you for the tip on the three treats! No biting when he took his tramadol. He will now drink on his own from a bowl of water and is eating his regular food like a champ! He is repositioning himself in his crate. No bladder control as of now, but I am expressing it (which he is not pleased about, let me tell you).

It's hard to explain, but it seems like his personality is coming back, which I can only attribute to his pain being under control.

I have to say, last night I went to bed with a heavy heart and head. I really felt unable to be strong enough to do all he needs done. When I woke up this morning and he was more like himself, giving licks and in a different position than I'd settled him into the night before; it just seemed like it would be okay. We could figure it out.

A big part of that is the support you've all offered!

Quick question:

Is there a best way to pick him up?

Thank you, thank you, thank you! He is much happier when I pick him up now. I'm trying not to be too excited, but when I picked him up to change his pad, I noticed his back legs were less floppy for lack of a better word. I had my son touch his paws and he straightened his legs. Only for a second, but he did.

Honestly, I'm okay if he doesn't regain full use of his legs again, we will figure it out, but maybe, just maybe he'll regain bladder control.

I will have to pick up some green tea, we have Moroccan mint green tea, but I'm not sure he'd appreciate the mint. Cas' stubborness is showing again for sure, he does not like being helped. Pain wise he is still doing well, when we opened the gate to get better access to him last night, he tried to take advantage and crawl out. Still no control, but I'm still expressing and no blood or overly strong smell. His only discomfort seems to be more discontent with the whole process.

This isn't to do with IVDD, but as you're all dog owners, maybe you guys could give me some advice for our second dog, Miya.

She's a rescue who was abused, we've had her for two years now and she has gotten insane with stealing food. She has taken it out of a child's hand who was still eating it. Unfortunately she is big enough (Shepherd mix) to reach the counter/table. While I was mixing Cas' food/meds this morning, I turned to put the container back in the fridge and she had snuck in and took his food off the counter. She also will find and eat any other animals food she can find, while she has a full bowl, and only return to her's when she can't get anyone else's.

We've fixed the issue with the cat's food by just putting it up higher, and we're keeping her separated or closely supervised in the room Cas is in. But with taking care of Cas and five kids, I'd really like to be able to break her of this habit. Gently, as again, she was abused and I have never believed in being rough or angry with a dog for being a dog. We do everything we can to make sure food isn't left out, but just yesterday my son made a sandwich and turned to get a glass of water, she stole it. We've tried gates, but she can jump them and our five year old cannot operate the foot pedal ones, he and our eight year old just aren't heavy enough.

Now that I think about it, it's gotten worse since Cas' injury. I know she's been a little stressed, and also Cas (even though he's much smaller) has always been the dominate of the two. Not sure if that is a contributing factor or not.

Thankfully, no. I hadn't mixed the gabapentin in yet. I was actually grabbing the meat for the tramadol when she did it. Just so frustrating. I have no way to corral her, our house only has doors on bedrooms and she can open them.

I think we are going to have to go the professional training route. I'm worried she's going to get something someday and hurt herself. She's already scared us by getting into an easter basket last year that was up on a counter. I swear, she's eaten a kite string before. It's insane.

She is not, it's something we thought about but she reacted very badly to it. Confinement in any form causes her to freak out. I am not sure of the details of her abuse before we got her unfortunately. She is a very anxious dog. Extremely sweet and loving, but very needy. The kind of dog that follows you absolutely everywhere and is always under foot.

Jen, I thought you might find this interesting. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. After the steroids finish then the nerve healing begins and it often follows the reverse order of the function loss.

1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails scuffing floor
4. Paws knuckle
5. Legs do not work (paralysis, dog is down)
6. Bladder control is lost
7. Tail wagging with joy is lost (Sounds like Caspian made it To Here on his decrease)
8. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function

When nerves are initially pressured they can loose function. If the NSAID or a more powerful steroid can turn about the swelling in the spinal cord, then that nerve loss can be temporary and come back in days. HOWEVER, if the swelling continues on too long, the nerve cells will die. Then in order for nerve function to come back the body has to regrow nerves. That can take a long time...think in terms of months. Thousands of dogs on Dodgerslist have regained functions in as little as 2 weeks, others 11 months, and still others 3 years later. IVDD is a disease of patience to allow the body to heal on its own terms. Acupuncture and Laser Therapy stimulate the cell’s metabolism that leads to the body’s natural repair abilities and can be started at any time.

Once nerves have repaired then muscles will also have to be retrained to relearn proper placement of the paws. Some muscles will need to regain strength for walking. Consider learning to walk again as it would be for a stroke victim or a baby learning to walk. At first, the steps will be weak and a bit unstable. Relearning to walk takes coordination, building up strength, and lots of patience.

All of this only started on March 10, so Caspain is doing very well so keep up the faith. We here at Dodgerslist try our best to persuade individuals that they will settle into a routine and things will get better as we adjust. Never give up hope that Caspain will regain the use of his legs. My Rooter was down 6 months before he walked again, around 3 months for bladder function to return and he started just like Caspain. He started regaining control little by little, he would pee some and then I would check him to make sure it was all out. It seems now like that phase did not last very long at all and he was completely peeing on his on. So Caspain is doing great and before you know it things will start getting better and better.

Since he is still on pain medication, is he still on a steroid? Because if there is still any pain at all then it means there is still swelling present in the spinal cord. The rule we use is:
Pain = Swelling = More time on Steroid or NSAID and Pepcid AC is still needed.

Update us on the med list and let us know about the pain and steroid or NSAID.

Again, congrats on his improving - he is doing great!

I have the shampoo, but right now we're still on just green tea until he's off crate rest. I just really like how the green tea works and smells (and he doesn't seem to mind it either) so when I found green tea and bergemot shampoo on sale, had to grab it. I did have to use a tiny bit today as he had a bowel movement while he was sleeping and his tail was tucked under him. I try to set him up so that his tail is out of the way but now that he's feeling a bit better he likes to readjust himself. But he was just laid on his pad while I worked to get the poop out of the fur.

He is still on
Pepcid - 10mg 2x daily
Prednisone - 10 mg 2x daily
Gabapentin - 20mg 2x daily

He had been on Tramadol 3x's as twice was not enough, even with the Gabapentin, but is back to 50mgs 2x daily.

Next week we're going to talk about what to continue, adjust, etc. We've been doing an "every ten days" plan unless something comes up, like pain.

He did still have deep pain sensation when we went to the vet so he did stop at the tail wagging step.

I tell you, right now the hardest thing is keeping him in the pen. He's such a character and he is pulling everything he can to try and talk his way out in much the same way he used to try to talk us out of bacon.

Question time.

How to help him stay dry overnight??

I am expressing his bladder before bed and I don't want to restrict his water too much because we are still on prednisone. We are using a male wrap with antibacterial bamboo cloth diaper inserts, and by morning (around six to seven hours later) he is sopping wet. It's not so much the extra laundry but I don't want him to get irritated.

Am I just going to need to resign myself to getting up in the middle of the night for right now? I mean, if I need to, I'll work around it.

Also, he is on prednisone twice a day (10mgs each time) and when I talked to his vet about weaning him she said I could and to just do it how I felt best. We are limited on vets here, so I'm turning to you guys. How should I proceed?? And yes, I know the vet is, well, leaving a lot to be desired.