|
Post by Pauliana on Feb 20, 2014 23:25:06 GMT -7
Hi John, The only way for the Vet to know if the swelling is down, is to begin a taper and back off the pain medications.. If Marley shows he is in pain, it means the swelling is not gone and to go back to the twice a day dose of the Prednisone.. Be sure since the taper begins over a weekend to have a plan in place with the vet that you can go back to the twice a day dose should he show signs of pain.. Some dogs require from two weeks to a month on the Prednisone but tapers are done earlier just to check the to see if it has done it's job getting the swelling down.. You don't want him on the Prednisone any longer than absolutely neccessary, so it is good to taper to see what status Marley is on the road to healing.. With dogs on conservative therapy, PT isn;t done until crate rest is over.. The focus is on healing the disc, the muscles will come back when crate rest is over when he starts easing back into gradual activity.. Here is a peek into the article about after crate rest is over to give you an idea on how to handle Marley in 5 weeks.. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Feb 26, 2014 15:42:21 GMT -7
Well Marley started his ▼Taper on Sat to one a day for Sat , Sun and Mon. He wasn't exhibiting the extreme pain shaking or trembling like he did 2 weeks ago. But for him he has made a few sounds he doesn't normally make. So we were at the Vets on Tuesday for his Laser Treatment and got more Prednisone and Tramadol and put him back on Tuesday: 2 a day on ▲prednisone and tramadol for Tues, wed, thur and fri Maybe Sat and then start a taper to one a day for 5 days and then alternate on off for 5 X's.
Since this back incident started on Feb 5th and wasn't under proper meds the first 11 days and was in severe pain most of them Im starting the countdown on his crate rest starting as of Feb 17 , so he is only a week and a half on his crate rest. 6 1/2 to go. Since the 14th of Feb Marley has gotten 6 Laser Treatments and is scheduled for 2 more this week and one next week. He has gone 2 in one week then 3 in next week and 3 in next week. Im planning the following week at 3 treatments the 2 the following week and then 2 more the following week. That would put him in Week 6 of Crate rest and 15 laser Treatments. What type of schedule for laser treatment's did other do ? How many times a week and how many weeks did they do it for ?
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,603
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 27, 2014 13:45:13 GMT -7
I hope one of our members can chime in on the Laser Treatment question you have.
Laser is not just for pain but is also useful in kickstarting nerve healing when there are neuro deficits. I would say as long as he is on pain meds and pred, likely laser is of help with associated pain in combo with meds, if it is in your family's budget to continue.
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Mar 1, 2014 16:11:44 GMT -7
Update on Marley, He seems like his normal self no expression of any pain or discomfort . Eats and potty's normally. He is a excellent Patient he stays in his crate / space he never pushes his boundary's and obeys and has adapted to his confinement of 24 days.
Today is his last day of his 2 X a days of Prednisone (round two). Marley was on Prednisone for 5 Days at 2 X a day then went to Prednisone for 1 X a day for 3 days at which time I mentioned a few things I noticed to the Vet at the Visit. We decided to put him back on Prednisone for 2 X a day for 5 days then taper him off. The Vet said to go ahead and taper after 5 days to 1 X a day for 5 days then 1 Prednisone every other day for 5 X's. I asked the vet and he said its no biggie to taper after 5 days to 1X for 5 Days.
My question is , since Marley was on Prednisone for 5 Days @ 2X a Day 3 Days @ 1X a Day 5 Days @ 2X a Day
He has been on Prednisone for a combined 10 days @ 2X and only Tapered for 3 Days in the middle of that Course. Is it wise to Taper for 5 Days at 1 a day then go 5 Times alternating on off With Prednisone ?
Or since he was 10 days on at 2 X and tapered 3 days at 1X should he 10 - 3 = 7 Should he taper for 7 Days at 1X then go to 7 times alternating 1X a day to finish his taper.
What have others done on Tapers when they have given Prednisone for more than 5 days, like 7 or 10 days ?
|
|
|
Post by Pauliana on Mar 1, 2014 22:11:33 GMT -7
Hi John,
It would be a good idea to discus the Prednisone taper timing with your Vet since you have questions. I can't tell you the best way to do it since my dog was on Metacam and no tapers required. Hopefully some of our members with experience with Prednisone tapers will chime in.
I would say to do the taper the way your Vet suggested and if you want to lengthen it to 7 days instead of 5, run it by your Vet first. Prednisone is one of those drugs that has to be supervised by a Vet.
|
|
Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
|
Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 3, 2014 10:21:46 GMT -7
Hi John! Ready to share your physical therapy secrets with Emmie and me? We have been given permission by the vet to start free movement and physical therapy!
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Apr 3, 2014 12:57:58 GMT -7
Hi John! Ready to share your physical therapy secrets with Emmie and me? We have been given permission by the vet to start free movement and physical therapy! Tried sending you a private message , keeps telling me : The following member(s) do not exist: vita & emmie
Try sending me a private message to talk.
|
|
Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
|
Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 3, 2014 18:42:37 GMT -7
Hi John, they moved me to Updates - I guess because we got out of the crate? I don't think this forum allows for a private chat among members- so everyone can learn from each other. Can you reply to this message? Can you see me now? We do exist! It's funny because when I looked for you earlier, you didn't exist either!
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Apr 15, 2014 19:32:41 GMT -7
Marley first exhibited back pain on Feb 5, 2014 and was given Meds by the Vet. He was still able to stand but gingerly and never lost control of his bladder. Unfortunately for 3 days he suffered cause we got stuck in a snow storm and nothing wasn't open for him to get help. He wasn't on the right meds for him and he was shaking and running a high Temperature until he got on the right meds on Feb 17.
The lesson learned was MAKE SURE you get the right MEDS or change VETS. Time is of the essence. Once on the right Meds- he didn't exhibit any pain and he ate normally and drank and drank and did his biz while in a sling. He spent 24/7 in his crate otherwise, even when going to the Vet ( 21 Trips ) he was carried on a padded Metal Tray so not to jostle his back.
He has been 3 weeks and 2 days since finishing his Meds Taper and is not exhibiting any discomfort.
To date he has had 19 Laser Treatments with 2 more to come over the next two weeks.
Yesterday, Monday April 14th he started he started his Rehab. ( 2 days shy of 10 weeks from when he first went down ) Having more freedom on the grass area ( 10 x 10 area )walking doing his Biz and then walking into the enclosed Patio where he has a 12 x 10 area to walk max. He is going out side 5 + times a day and enjoying the sunshine and fresh air. After his time outside he is back on Crate rest for week 1 + 2 of his 4 weeks of rehab.
Each Week forward for the next 4 weeks total he will walk more and have more time to get stronger, he will not be rushed or cut short his time to get stronger.
Before his back Issue happened he lives in a ranch house so he doesn't do stairs - the one step out the front or back door always had a ramp. He doesn't go up on furniture so there is no jumping down or up, nor does he stand up on back legs and beg. So there is no pointing a finger at what and why it happened - but bad things happen.
If you saw Marley walking now you wouldn't know he had a back problem 10 weeks ago - but we will not get his rehab cut short just because he looks normal. Getting him stronger and stronger is critical to reduce the chance of a relapse so the 14 weeks window from beginning to end is a blip in the time line of his long term health.
Thank You to every one on Dodgers List for all their help and knowledge shared from info about pain - drugs - crate rest - therapy - and most of all the proper way to lift your dog.
Just because your Dog is short - don't take short cuts in his recovery.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,603
|
Post by PaulaM on Apr 16, 2014 12:18:12 GMT -7
John, you have done such a wonderful job in caring for Marley and now with graduation providing a slow introduction back into physical activity. Kudos for a job well done!
Because Marley was born with disc disease, you are right when you comment there there is no pointing a finger as to the why for this current disc episode. That is correct, outwardly we do not see what is going on with prematurely aging discs. It is at the point the disc becomes too aged it can no longer provide the function of being a cushy flexible cushion for the vertebrae. Without flexibility when squeezed by the bones of the spine the disc starts with painful tiny cracks and progress to tears which can mean loss of neuro functions.
|
|
Vita & Emmie
Helpful Member
Currently graduated for the 3rd time; walking and running!
Posts: 189
|
Post by Vita & Emmie on Apr 16, 2014 18:54:48 GMT -7
Hi John, I'm so happy for Marley getting a bit of freedom and the sunshine that makes everyone feel better! I agree about your not rushing - when you come this far and do everything "by the book", why take a shortcut that will jeopardize everything? Your patience is a great thing for Marley and you set a great example for me and the others on the forum. Best wishes from Emmie and me
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Apr 16, 2014 19:11:47 GMT -7
Thanks for the warm wishes and wishing you and Emmie the Best.....
|
|
|
Post by Jean & Mimi on Apr 17, 2014 5:33:47 GMT -7
Congratulations John and Marley!!! SO happy for both of you and that Marley is doing so well Enjoy your snuggle time and the new normal. Here's to Marley living a happy, pain free life
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on May 23, 2014 10:19:20 GMT -7
Marley is now done with his 6 weeks of Rehab after doing 10 weeks of STRICT CRATE REST. He has full roam of the house ( we have no stairs and never ever did furniture then or now ) Did change his eating arrangements where he doesn't have to go on the tile floors in kitchen and to be excited and risk slipping. Have a rubber backed carpet ( in the kitchen ) so he cant slip when he is leaving the kitchen or coming back in from the porch going to the back yard as well as for the front door entry way. Each entry way is only one step up - 4 inches in height but there is a carpeted ramp so that's one less risk factor. He walks and runs like the wind, you would never know he injured his back on Feb 5th. Marley finally sleeping with dad in bed at night, he missed that a lot. 16 weeks from then till now - for us life is back to normal, Marley is lucky.
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on May 24, 2014 10:40:39 GMT -7
It's wonderful to hear how well Marley is doing, John. He is a lucky boy. He's particularly lucky to have such a loving owner who educated himself about this disease and applied what he learned to Marley's recovery. And such an excellent recovery it is! Thank you for the help you've given others here on the forum and I hope you'll stick with us. Prayers for many happy years ahead for you and Marley with no more disc problems.
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Aug 5, 2014 10:16:08 GMT -7
On Feb 5th Marley went down with his back.
He did 10 weeks of Extreme Crate Rest. Only picked up out of crate to go POTTY. Even going to the Vets he was in his crate for his 21 Laser Sessions. Started Rehabbing mid April and was back walking the 2nd week of May. He is back 100 % Walking with no indications of a back issue what so ever.
Thanks to all the wonderful knowledge that was shared with me on Dodgerslist it helped me get the proper Meds for Marley from a 2nd Vet after the first Vet was out of touch with what was needed.
Marley never did stairs before his incident nor was he allowed on the couch , so jumping and climbing wasn't why it happened, it just did.
Marley's Conservative Treatment of Crate Rest, Proper Meds, Laser treatment and Support from Dodgerslist got him back to a healthy happy dog once again. Over 2 months of being back to his old self running and sniffing.
Thanks,
Marley John
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,603
|
Post by PaulaM on Aug 5, 2014 16:26:53 GMT -7
What a wonderful report on Marley.... back to running and sniffing!!!
You and Marley are great inspiration to those just starting the IVDD journey. The reason for a disc episode is as you say, it just happened... happened because Marley was born with this degenerative disease.
Hope to see you around giving new members concrete proof there is light at the end of the tunnel.
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Feb 5, 2015 7:49:17 GMT -7
ONE YEAR ANNIVERSARY
It was a year ago today that Marley, my 18 lb Long Hair Dachshund developed IVDD. Marley has made a complete 100 % Recovery from a year ago Feb 2014.
The first day Marley showed pain and inability to want to walk we took him to the Vet that same day. He was evaluated and given Meds and went home. Unfortunately the Meds this Vet prescribed weren't right for what he needed. His conditioned worsened , showing more pain - shaking and running a temperature, unable to stand like he did when it first started. Then we got snowed in for 3 days where no Vets were open and he wasn't able to get to a VET and on the proper Meds for over 10 DAYS since he went down. Fortunately he was able to pee + Poop on his own.
Luckily I found Dodgerslist where I found tons of Information and knew what to ask the NEW VET about what was needed. The information I got from Dodgerslist is why Marley is walking and running now. I always thought I carried him in a safe way and one night - the way I carried him in from a potty break he started to shake and shook in pain for 75 minutes. its when I learned from Dodgerslist the safest way to carry him. And to this day I still use that same method , I highly suggest making it part of your routine.
Marley did not have surgery but did do Conservative Crate Rest. Since the first 10 days of his recovery he was in pain and not on the proper meds I didn't consider that in his time line of recovery of 8 weeks. So Marley spent those two weeks in addition to 8 weeks of STRICT CRATE REST for a total of 10 weeks in his crate, no laps, no couch no beds. Each time he went out to potty he was carried and a sling was used for support. I wasn't concerned about muscle atrophy because I know first hand you can rehab that back over time. During his 8 STRICT weeks of Crate rest he went for 21 sessions of Cold Laser Treatments. Marley doesn't like the Vets office but during the Treatments he layed their and closed his eyes most of the time for the 10 minutes it took. So to me that meant it felt good to him. ( When he went to the Vets he was carried in his crate and the Crate was put on the exam table so I truly mean STRICT CRATE REST is what he was on. ) As for the Laser Treatments I did not do it at my normal Vets because he wanted $40 a session I shopped around and found a Vet that had package deals of $120 for 6 Sessions. So shop around , its your Dog, your money their health.
Marleys Rehab was done slow , like I learned here on Dodgerslist. This started in Feb his IVDD and it was June when he was walking for ten 15 minutes 2- 3 times a day finally.
I learned more about IVDD and got more help here on Dodgerlist than I did with the 4 Vets Marley went to see. Sure the Vets did blood work and prescribed the Meds - but on Dodgerslist I got the Knowledge to know what to ask to question their logic and go to another Vet when needed, how to carry, what to look for, how to protect his tummy with Pepcid ac , to do a full 8 weeks of crate rest not just 4 to 6 suggested by the Vet. So on and so on - so much to list.
Marley is 7 yrs old rescue, his first 3 years were some where else where he did stairs and jumped on and off furniture. The next 2 years with me, he never did stairs- EVER- never was allowed on the couch or did any furniture - so there was no jumping he also never stood up and begged. Yet some how his back went out and he got IVDD, he still does not do furniture or stairs or doesn't beg.
He gets Fed a Raw Food Diet, Fish oil, Vit C, Probitoics and Wholistic Pet Organics Canine Complete Joint Mobility ( I only give half their suggested dosage ) and I cant comment on his back with it but I do see his fur on his pads growing back faster and longer and this is the only thing new added to his diet. He goes for walks daily with me and just yesterday did a hour long hike in the woods off leash.
Best advice I can offer is read what is here to help. Don't rush the recovery, 8 weeks may need to be 10 weeks before rehab starts or longer. There is not set timeline in concrete on how recovery of the spine takes. So don't give up after 6 or 8 or 10 weeks. It takes time.
Special Thanks to all the Moderators for their insight and help. !
Now Marley and I are going out to enjoy the winter sun and do a nice long walk to celebrate his 1 year comeback.
|
|
|
Post by Debbie Blackwelder on Feb 5, 2015 12:12:45 GMT -7
John, your post just made my day! It is so encouraging to read about how a dog is a year later. Give Marley a belly rub for me and I hope you guys have many, many more years of enjoying life together. Life is good, God Bless!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,603
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 5, 2015 12:40:07 GMT -7
John, we love to get followup updates! We appreciate your comments about our help. The true thanks goes to you... you read, applied and gave Marley the care he needed. That is what we live to hear about and as Debbie said that makes our efforts here on the Forum so worthwhile. I also want to thank you for taking time to help other members just starting what can be a scary journey.
|
|
|
Post by John & Marley on Feb 5, 2016 14:59:57 GMT -7
2.5.14 to 2.5.16, Two Years SInce marley went Down Feb 5, 2014 exactly two years ago Marley went down.
Today 2 years later he RUNS LIKE the WIND
No jumping off the bed, or couch - not allowed there. Lives in a Ranch House so no stairs doesn't sit up and beg. No rough housing with other dogs or traumatic incident, just one day he went down.
He could walk but gingerly tense hunched over guarded slow to move. Took him to Vets was given Meds. Marley was allowed to walk outside to do his business - MY BAD, I gave him too much freedom and his condition worsened, then we got hit with a major snow storm and could not get to the VETS for 3 days during which he was shaking for a hour at a time and running a fever. During those 3 days of being snowed in I found Dodgerslist and learned the error of my ways and saw the LIGHT... Thanks to all those who answered my questions over and over - it gave me peace of mine being able to get a education on what was happening to Marley.
The Vet that saw Marley gave him Meds that were insufficient to handle a back incident- making me realize that this Vet had no experience with a dog with IVDD. So a 10 days after going down Marley saw another Vet and got on the right MEDS and he recovery started. But for 10 days he suffered in pain.
Marley did STRICT CRATE REST for 10 weeks not 8 but TEN WEEK,. he then did REHAB for 10 weeks as well. I extended his Crate Rest and Rehab to make sure he had the best chance of healing. Marley went 2 - 3 times a week for a total of 21 visits for Cold Laser Therapy. He seem to enjoy it - I sensed that since at Vets office he always wants to Leave but during the sessions he layed down and closed his eyes...
Some 6 months out Marley was back to normal, walking fine but I slowly brought him a along to get him stronger to recover what muscles may have atrophied.
Now, 2 years later at almost 8 years of age he runs like the wind, just 2 weeks ago he went to the horse stables with me and ran off leash for a hour and tomorrow we are going down to the river and hike for a hour and watch the sunrise over the river then off to Cabelas and then home . He so loves his outings.
There is that cliché that "time heals all wounds " well with IVDD maybe not all wounds but TIME is one of the key ingredients to recovery. You cant bake a cake for the suggested time of 45 minutes and pull it out of the oven at 25 minutes and expect it to be any good.
Words of Wisdom that I can share are :
Question your Vet . Find out how much experience he has with IVDD ( I didn't and lost 10 days of recovery and saw Marley shake and in extreme pain ) If your Vet is iffy - Thanks Bubye go to another Vet. Even after finding a good Vet you trust - QUESTION Everything .
Make sure of all the Meds and side effects and time periods to be given.
Take notes write things down keep a journal -- things become a blurr from lack of sleep - did I give that drug today at the right time. I kept tabs on his progress , his poos, his drinking , his state of mine.
TIME : Done rush Crate Rest - Don't rush Recovery don't take short cuts - Oh he looks better i'll let him walk out to potty, its been 6 weeks not 8 weeks..I wont use a sling , I wont keep him in his crate, he looks so sad, Do not give into your dogs quilting you into taking a short cut. Do the TIME,
I have had three dogs with IVDD, one with 2 surgeries and the most recent - Marley with STRICT CRATE REST. Vets are making a educated guess and can not see the spinal column healing so they are guessing to what really is happening. My dog with his 2nd surgery at 10 weeks no leg movement nada nothing,,, Vet said he will need a cart to get around, then at 12 weeks movement at 6 months walking with a hitch in his walk Vet said that's the best it will be with the limp, and at a year he was 110% normal and chased rabbits down, no limp nothing,,,
Do your research, Do not give up, Question your Vet No Short Cuts Give it TIME
GOOD LUCK....
MARLEY JOHN
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
|
Post by Marjorie on Feb 5, 2016 16:53:13 GMT -7
Very good reminders for our members, John. I'm glad Marley is doing so well. You and Marley are both an inspiration to others. Keep up the good work!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,603
|
Post by PaulaM on Feb 6, 2016 10:06:22 GMT -7
John, love your updates and right on words of wisdom! Wow two years now and Marley is disc episode free...that is just wonderful. Don't forget to add Marley's JPG to the 2016 Photo Gallery with a couple of sentences. This is great inspiration to our new members! LOGIN to the 2016 gallery: www.dodgerslist.com/gallery/ username: Dachsie password: dodgerslist14
|
|