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Post by K & Porter on May 13, 2023 6:29:55 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Introducing Porter!]
I’m Mama K & My cuddle buddy, Porter, is about 6 or 7 years old and weighs 12 pounds. He’s a miniature long haired dachshund. On
5/11, he got up walking funny, so we went to our vet Dr Sarah (DVM).He has 2 possibly 3 slipped discs just above his L-1. Doc prescribed meds and crate rest, although surgery is potentially an option.
He got a steroid shot before we left & he’s prescribed
•Prednisone 1 1/2 5mg tablets daily for 7 days, tapered to 1 for 7 days, then 1/2 for 7 days
•Gabapentin 1.5 ml 2x day
•Methocarbamol 250 mg 2x day
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
12 lbs 6-7 y.o.
Dex shot 5/11
prednisone as 5/12: 7.5mgs 1x/day for 7 days, 5/19 test taper for: _pain / _neuro
gabapentin 250mg/5 mL: 75mgs (1.5mL dose) 2x/day
methocarbamol 250 mgs 2x/day
Porter needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board for duration of prednisone! ]
Porter is on strict crate rest. When taken out to potty, his hind legs flop over. He is able to poop and pee, although pooping seems difficult.
I learned of this site so I’ll be carrying him & using a sling now
Porter when I carry him shivers and grunts a little. His back is arched and he is slow wobbly walking when he’s out to potty. He does seem to be resting ok, seems comfortable in his crate although he has a little trouble getting back comfortably positioned after potty breaks.
He’s not wagging his tail as often as usual but I can coax him into it.
His appetite is good so far. He loves his treats (cubes of steamed butternut squash) which are perfect pill pockets, too. I’ve been feeding him a little mush of minced chicken, oatmeal, broth, & kibble.
After he slung his first dose of gabapentin all over the place, I’ve been stirring it into his mush. I hope that is ok.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 13, 2023 9:13:05 GMT -7
K welcome to the Forum! We are glad to hear you've already learned to limit movement of the spine in order the disc may heal. More great tips and ideas to carry out strict rest: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/PAIN
It is not clear for us, but appears Porter may still be in pain and the need to adjust his meds over the phone today. Be accurate in observing and reporting pain so the vet can understand. Med adjustments over the phone are typical with vets who understand a car trip in can involve a potential for too much movement of the spine so they take updates and do meds adjustments over the phone. MONITOR FOR PAIN There should be no sign of pain from one dose of meds to the next. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. Look for your dog to be acting their normal, perky self when pain is fully under control round the clock. P.ain meds (gabapentin abnd methocarbamol) are effective for 8 hrs. Typically they are prescribed for 3x/day (every 8 hrs)
SIGNS OF PAIN: ⚙︎ shivering-trembling ⚙︎ yelping when picked up or moved ⚙︎ tight tense tummy ⚙︎ arched back, ears pinned back ⚙︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ⚙︎ slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shift positions ⚙︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves -- Learn about Prednisone and what your job is on the taper, how to arrange for a Plan B with your vet. QUESTIONS
1 What date did you give the first prednisone 1½ tablet dose?
2 What was the name of the steroid shot?
3 What is Gabapentin's formula? Often written on bottle in a format: 25mgs/mL , 5mgs/2mL, etc. Gabapentin is VERY bitter. When it is compounded into a liquid, it should have a taste a dog would like. The problem with mixing meds into food, if he does not eat it all, he's not getting the full dose. 4 Are his poops formed, not too soft (loose stool) and not too hard (constipation)?
5 Let us know when Pepcid AC (famotidine) is on board after confirming with your vet. The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory.
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Post by K & Porter on May 13, 2023 9:54:33 GMT -7
Porter started oral prednisone on 5/12. His gabapentin is liquid and is flavored. I don’t think he objects to the taste but doesn’t like the syringe. I have fed in small amount of mush, which he loves & eats it all.
I will ask about the famatodine, dosage amounts. I already have some so hopefully I can get correct dosage from that. His stool are well formed but soft. He doesn’t seem to be in pain except when I pick him up to go potty. I believe his shot on 5/11 was prednisone but will check on that.
Had to check my records. On 5/11, he received.63 Dexamethasone injection and the Gabapentin is Sol 250mg/5 ml
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 13, 2023 10:42:21 GMT -7
K had you been syringing in this manner to avoid aspiration into lungs and for kicking in the swallowing reflex? Dosing liquid meds Place the tip of the Syrine in the mouth, just behind one of the canine teeth. Angle the syringe slightly to the side and deposit the medications onto the tongue.  * source: vcahospitals.com/Do you believe he is in pain nearing next doses of two pain meds? Have you been able to contact your vet if so? The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the prednisone for the duration of prednisone. Thank you for the details on the gabapentin formula. |
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Post by K & Porter on May 14, 2023 18:53:43 GMT -7
I did see the vet video on syringes and had a little better success with it after watching that. Dr Sarah ok’d Porter to take 5 mg of ✙famatodine.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
12 lbs 6-7 y.o.
Dex shot 5/11
prednisone as 5/12: 7.5mgs 1x/day for 7 days, 5/19 test taper for: _pain / _neuro
gabapentin 250mg/5 mL: 75mgs (1.5mL dose) 2x/day
methocarbamol 250 mgs 2x/day
✙Pepcid AC (famotdine) 5mgs 1x/day for duration of prednisone! ]
I adjusted the times he gets his meds to they are at 8 & 8 yesterday.
I had been giving them when we got up around 6-6:30 & at bedtime. He did much better.
I’m not sure if it’s a good thing or not, but he has rolled over on his back & wiggled around in his bed, which he does when he’s feeling playful. And he’s wagging his tail and smiling more. He’s eaten really well today, and peeing, pooping without difficulty, and his hind legs aren’t falling over when he’s on potty break.
We are looking into the possibility of acupuncture and laser therapy at the animal hospital. It’s a bit of a drive but if it can help him, it will be worth it. I think we all felt better today. ☺️
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 15, 2023 16:25:59 GMT -7
K, Porter is on such a good path of healing with your report improved neuro function and not in pain. The single most important care is what you do at home.
By that I mean he is in his recovery suite with limited spine movement. He is only out to potty where there are limited footsteps. His disc is healing. A trip in to a clinic means the potential for too much movement of the spine and ensuing disruption of the disc scar tissue trying to heal. Re-damaging the disc with too much movement means starting from the beginning again in the counting out 8 weeks for the disc to heal. And if increased neuro damage happened, then more time for self repairing nerves. Porter will suffer with pain upon damage to the disc. Any time Porter is out of his suite is a danger to the healing disc. If you insist on laser/acupuncture, then hire a mobile vet that comes to your home. Just because a therapy is for sale, does not mean there is a need to purchase it. During a disc episode carefully weight what the benefit is vs. the risk of a transport into a clinic. Acupuncture/laser could help with pain. However the best solution is proper adjustments to the pain meds used at home which you say are doing the job. Acupuncture can help to kick start nerve healing. However you say there is neuro healing going on with now no longer falling over. As long as Porter is gently rolling on his back (indicating he is not in pain), that is ok. Any behavior that is rambunctious of course can't be allowed. Stay the course with STRICT rest to let that disc heal. Print out the Conservative Roadmap to put on your fridge. It will help you to stay the course and not make any dangerous detours to Porter's healing disc..  ***VIEW, DOWNLOAD and print: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdfAre you giving 5mgs famotidine TWICE a day?
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Post by K & Porter on May 16, 2023 6:56:36 GMT -7
Thanks for the pointers on acupuncture and laser. I understand the need to keep him crated and your thoughts about weighing the risk of moving him when he’s already responding well at home makes a lot of sense. Especially since it would be an hour drive from where we live, so we will hold off on that.
What I’m dealing with last night was lots of whining. Not pain. Wanting to get out of the crate. He’s very aware big brother Willie is not in a crate, and Willie had been hanging next to his crate at first but more going about his business. The only way Porter would be quiet is if I was right next to his crate letting him lick my finger. He’s more laid back today but if that becomes a common situation, I’m not sure he’s getting the healing rest he needs & may need to see about getting something to settle him down.
Also, forgot to add, Porter is getting the famatodine 1/2 hour before his prednisone, which is once a day.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 16, 2023 10:50:29 GMT -7
K, Pepcid AC (famotidine) lasts for 12 hrs in suppressing acids. A dose of prednisone could stay in the body for 16.5 to 22 hours depending on the rate of metabolism for each dog. Give prednisone every 12 hrs. Consider some of these ideas to help Porter be able to relax:-- For during the day when you are at home, many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Many dogs do like being up higher to better survey happenings in their home. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/17/pet-stroller-conservatve-treatment/--- Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. Dogs are generally much calmer when they are focused and aware of how to act to get what they want. To achieve this, reward your dog with a high-value food treat the moment he looks at you. You can also say "yes" or use a clicker to mark the exact moment your dog looks at you. Then quickly follow up with a treat [NOTE: for crate resting dogs, shift your body a bit] Wait for your dog to look up at you once more., Say, “Yes,” before giving treat. After about ten repetitions, say, "All done," and put the treats away. Come back later and repeat the exercise until you notice that your dog is genuinely beginning to make eye contact automatically in anticipation of hearing "Yes" once more and receiving his reward. [NOTE: treats should be deducted from the normal daily kibble intake to prevent weight gain gain weight during crate rest. The size of the treat is irrelevant to dogs. ] wholedogtraining.com/images/stories/Are_all_dogs_trainable.pdf If the amount of meat protein in treats is increased by more than 10%, the balanced kibble formula may become unbalanced. For example, if you feed a dog 1/3 cup (5 TBSP) kibble: • 5 tablespoons = 15 teaspoons • Meat treats limit: 1.5 to 2 teaspoons • The math: 15 tsp x .10 = 1.5 tsp -- Provide a lick mat in the recovery suite. Freeze with some soaked and mushed up kibble, a slight slather of canned dog food or other lo-cal smear, as a very tiny treat but one that will take a lot of work and time to enjoy a treat. Use as long as your dog is not exceeding the requirement of little neck/back movement during the recovery rest period www.amazon.com/s?k=lick+mat+for+dogs&hvadid=78202818358910&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvqmt=e&tag=mh0b-20&ref=pd_sl_3b30nygjvi_e-- At night, try placing the crate on a sturdy bedside table to sleep next to you. This way he can see you and you can feel him thru the crate wires. -- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate at night so he can smell you as he sleeps. -- Thundershirt® to calm anxieties similar concept as swaddling an infant to calm. thundershirt.com/products/thundershirt-for-dogs-- Make the crate or ex-pen more cozy at night by draping a blanket over part of the top.  ** --- Consider calmers? Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these calmers to start working - it isn't immediate but they can provide a sense of calmness through out the day with less side effects. Heavy duty vet prescription sedatives (ACE, alprazolam or traZODone) likely would work immediately and could be reserved for prior to bedtime. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffusor level with where the recovery suite is: --DOG Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/Use diffusor with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbac 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php Let us know which of these ideas works for Porter. It may be helpful to other members with same issue to know your observations. |
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Post by K & Porter on May 18, 2023 20:29:25 GMT -7
Thanks for the suggestions. Porter seems most anxious during the day, so I ordered some of the composure chews. I think as he is feeling a little better he doesn’t want to miss out. & his older brother is out, so he doesn’t understand why he’s not. (Background: they’re rescues from a puppy mill and a bonded pair after spending their lives in the same crate, so we fostered them as a pair & then adopted when they were available for permanent placement) He gets anxious when they’re separated, big brother Willie is much more laid back, although he does come and lie near his crate much of the time, which helps. Bedtime is ok, because we are all in our beds, so it seems normal to him. Hoping the chews will help!
I’m looking for a pet stroller, but also thinking about repurposing a rolling tea cart & setting his small crate on it, so he can still see us when we are eating meals, or doing dishes. I’m so glad our house is basically a great room/kitchen/dining and our bedroom, so he’s not really away for everyone. I think his hardest thing is he’s a total lapdog since he got here. I will sit next to his crate as much as possible & let him lick my fingers & that helps.
I added a shirt of mine and then decided to add one of brother Willie’s chew toys to Porters crate. At first I thought he was annoyed because he was tossing them around &!pushing them to the edges of his crate. but then he apparently got them positioned right(?) and he settled in with the stuffed Gumby under his chin and my shirt behind him/under his shoulders.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 19, 2023 8:34:10 GMT -7
K, didn't not hear back....has Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs been moved to TWICE a day yet? Describe his stools today, are they still soft? Any issues with not eating as well due to nausea?
Hope to hear of continued good results in being able to relax with the various things you have implemented! I loved reading your description of Porter settling in with all the new items you placed in his recover suite.
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