Aleisha & Emma
New Member
FEMALE - Nova Scotia Duck Toller mix
Posts: 18
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Post by Aleisha & Emma on Sept 4, 2021 14:35:45 GMT -7
[Aleisha's Emma 9/3 conservative-Beagle mix 3rd episode over the last 9 months]
Hello! Unfortunately, I am here posting because we are in the midst of a disc episode or “flare up.” Yesterday [9/3] morning when I took Emma out to go to the bathroom, she walked significantly slower and stiffer than normal. Occasionally, this happens in the morning and I attributed it to morning sleepiness. However, when my boyfriend got home, it was worse. She was walking significantly slower and acting like she was reluctant to move. When I got home I observed this same behavior, as well as her tummy felt “tight.” She didn’t act her normal, happy, excited self. We made the decision to take her to an emergency vet [9/3] last night . She received her first dose of ✙ prednisone at midnight last night. Symptoms: Isn’t acting like herself. Reluctant to move. If she can, she will scoot herself to adjust in her ex-pen instead of standing. Her body, especially her stomach, feels tight. However, she can walk and stand, there is no loss of mobility that we can see. No whining or panting. We felt slight shaking before she started medication, but have not noticed it since. When she does walk, it is very slow and stiff. She has complete control of her bladder and bowel movements. When I take her outside, she will drop her hips to pee without issue. When she stands back up, one foot will knuckle once, but she will correct it and it does not happen again. Eating and drinking fine. She officially started crate rest last night at midnight. She had her first dose of prednisone and pains meds at the same time. Medications: Prednisone 5mg tablets - 1.5 twice a day for 7 days, 1.5 once a day for 7 days, 1.5 every other day until gone Codeine 30 mg tablets - half a tablet every 8 hours Gabapentin 100 mg capsules - 2 tablets every 8 hours Acepromazine 10 mg tablets - 1 to 2 tablets every 12 hours or as needed for sedation Omeprazole 20 mg tablets - 1 tablet every 12 hours Famotidine 10 mg tablets - 1 tablet every 12 hours [MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 39lbs 4 y.o. prednisone as of 9/3: 7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then 9/10 a test taper for: _pain / _neuro Codeine 30 mg tab: 15mgs 3x/day Gabapentin 100 mg caps - 200 mgs 3x/day ACEpromazine 10 mg tab - 10 to 20 mgs 2x/day for sedation Omeprazole 20 mg tablets -20 mgs 2x/day Famotidine 10 mg tablets - 10 mgs 2x/day ]
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 4, 2021 15:42:41 GMT -7
Aleisha, so sorry to hear of another disc or maybe the same one as before. The good news is how fast you took action to see a vet and crate!!
Today are you seeing any signs of pain nearing the next doses or when she has to move to change position in her suite?
If today she is still showing signs of pain (slow, ginger to walk, tight tummy) alert ER. Often there are 3 pain meds to each work on a different source of pain. Methocarbamol is to work on muscle contraction pain.
Watch/observe the neuro deficit of paw knuckles but can quickly correct that it does not increase to very slow or can't correct the paw at all.
Does Emma still weigh 39 lbs?
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Aleisha & Emma
New Member
FEMALE - Nova Scotia Duck Toller mix
Posts: 18
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Post by Aleisha & Emma on Sept 4, 2021 16:50:05 GMT -7
Emma had 2 acepromaziine at 8am, on top of the pain medication. She has been sleeping most of the day besides potty breaks. She is slow to walk and does still seem somewhat tense, but outside of that there are no other signs of pain that I would connect to movement. There is no shaking, panting, whining, or tenseness in the tummy. Is it possible that she is experience side effects of all of the medication?
Yes, Emma is still about 39lbs.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 5, 2021 10:59:27 GMT -7
Aleisha, since you've been given a range for ACEpromaziine, maybe try one 10mgs tab once a day to see if that is causing too much drowsiness in regard to slowness in walking. ACE does not provide any pain relief, its job is to tranquilize/ sedate. Always good to be fully informed with a fact sheet for each of your dog's meds. I like the Mar Vista Veterinary Drug directory's fact sheets: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pml Let us know what you observe in figuring out if slow walking is due to drowsiness or a sign of pain. Existence of back pain can be a type of referred pain that appears as a tense tummy. Where is Emma's tenseness? How old is Emma, now?
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Aleisha & Emma
New Member
FEMALE - Nova Scotia Duck Toller mix
Posts: 18
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Post by Aleisha & Emma on Sept 7, 2021 6:11:20 GMT -7
Emma is 4 years old. This is her 3rd episode over the last 9 months.
Emma is experiencing a lot of side effects from all of the medication. The codeine is upsetting her stomach and has made her vomit a couple times. The gabapentin is making her ataxic. And the prednisone is making her excessively thirsty and have to pee almost every 45 minutes to an hour.
Our primary vet has not been open because of the holiday weekend. We took her to an emergency vet Friday night, that also has a neurology department. She was treated at this emergency vet for her first 2 episodes. The first time, the neurologist did surgery and then told us she could resume all normal activity after only 4 weeks. The second time, we went with medical management and saw great success. When we took her to this emergency vet for her second episode, neurology would not treat her because we told them we weren’t willing to do a second surgery, especially within a such short time frame. The first surgery was $6k, and the episodes happened only 6 weeks a part. The emergency vet tried to use euthanasia to guilt us into wanting to pay for a second surgery. We allowed them to hospitalize her for a couple days, with their intention being on neurology at least examining her to advise on medical management. Neurology wouldn’t even call me to discuss the exam and when she was discharged, the vet techs allowed her to walk outside several feet instead of carrying her.
This emergency vet with the neurology department has the only neurologist in the area and only 1 of 2 in the state. This place was our best option Friday night, so we took her since we’re a lot more educated now on what treatment she needed. However, we’ve had such terrible experiences with them and I really don’t trust their judgment/advice.
During her second episode, when we had questions or were experiencing things that we weren’t sure were emergencies or not (vomiting from the medication, ataxia, whining randomly if we had to lift her, etc.) we’d be lucky if we could get a call back, let alone talk to someone in neurology. My point being, we don’t trust this place, but this is where we’re constantly referred to since they have neurology and our primary vet is not always open when episodes happen on nights and weekends.
After the initial 24 hours of all the medication, Emma started to vomit and became severely ataxic, as well as excessively urinating. Emma would only vomit about an hour and a half after eating, and only if she had codeine recently.
When we left the emergency vet on Friday, they gave us a paperwork listing out all her medications and how much and when to give them, but did not review normal side effects. However, that same paper did say to monitor her symptoms and if she develops vomiting, diarrhea, acts lethargic, becomes paralyzed, or has trouble walking, to call them. When we did call them this weekend since she has puked a couple times and we didn’t realize the ataxia was what it was, they refused to talk to us, answer any questions, or give any guidance or information about her medications and told us just to “bring her in.”
When I told them that they had placed her on strict crate rest because she’s having a disc episode and we weren’t comfortable transporting her unless is was absolutely necessary, they told us that was our choice but there’s nothing else they could do otherwise. We decided not to bring her in. I tried calling a different emergency vet, and they simply referred us back to this other place since they have neurology.
As of this morning [9/7], Emma is comfortable and doing well. We started staggering the gabapentin and codeine as well as giving her food a half hour before instead of with the medication. Once we made this change, she stopped puking completely.
Our biggest issue at the moment is the constant urination. Given she’s ataxic, getting her to stand a take a couple steps to go to the bathroom, even on a pee pad indoors, is extremely difficult not to mention at the frequency that she’s going (every hour if not more). We have pee pad in her ex-pen as well as we’re using diapers. I’ve stayed home from work today and tomorrow so I’m able to change these and clean them constantly. Thursday and Friday, we are both at work all day, how do we handle her excessive urination then?
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2021 9:00:13 GMT -7
Proboards Forums is experiencing slowness for me Sep 7, 9:59am MST.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 7, 2021 9:27:56 GMT -7
Aleisha, very good to hear you have figured out on your own, a med and feeding schedule that has alleviated med side effects! Good job.
As for the prednisone side effect thirst, necessary for more drinking of water and the frequency need of urination, it is clear Emma needs care. Consider speaking with your own vet about boarding Emma during your work hours. The vet, too, may also be able to discuss with you about catheter use at home during your work hours.
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Aleisha & Emma
New Member
FEMALE - Nova Scotia Duck Toller mix
Posts: 18
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Post by Aleisha & Emma on Sept 8, 2021 8:53:11 GMT -7
I finally spoke to our primary vet [9/7] yesterday. I explained what was going on in terms of symptoms (constant urination, nausea, ataxia). He said to stop giving her the codeine all together unless she acts painful. He also reduced her ▼gabapentin to once every 12 hours instead of once every 8 hours.
[MED LIST/HISTORY- Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 39lbs 4 y.o. prednisone as of 9/3: 7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then 9/10 a test taper for: _pain / _neuro Gabapentin 100 mg caps - 200 mgs ▼2x/day ACEpromazine 10 mg tab - 10 to 20 mgs 2x/day for sedation Omeprazole 20 mg tablets -20 mgs 2x/day Famotidine 10 mg tablets - 10 mgs 2x/day ]
It’s been about 24 hours since we made these adjustments. Emma is no longer nauseated. She peeing and drinking at a normal frequency. She’s sleeping through the night. And she’s starting to show movement in her hind legs and paws.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 8, 2021 9:59:22 GMT -7
Aleisha, wonderful to hear Emma's excessive urination issue was turned around with the stop of Codeine. Did your family say what the relationship of Codeine was to alleviating more drinking and more peeing was?
What a change for the good for Emma and you all now able to sleep the night through!!!
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