Pam's Dozer 8/8 conservative- hypothyroi Lab/Chow/Min pin-

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The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply, discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. In Dozer's case, the 8 weeks would be from the date of the relapse. We have information about how crate rest works and tips on setting up a comfy crate here:
dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/
dodgerslist.com/nursing-care-during-the-disc-episode/
The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference.
--To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with 1 teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight, 1x a day.
I tried pumpkin for my dog's constipation. It helped and he really liked it.
Dogs on pred may have to be taken out more frequently, sometimes as often as every two or three hours. For overnight accidents, try giving Dozer the last drink of the day a few hours before bedtime. Of course, he must have free access to water during the day.
Help all of your family recognize emergency signs and action to take. Print this flyer for your fridge:
dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/emergency-fridge-flyer.pdf
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Pam, did you get Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board as Romy mentioned yesterday?

What are the names of these meds and the food fiber?
name of hypthryoidsm meds
name of dietary fiber 1x/day

Dozer is doing too much movement of his back with that pacing.  
I do think you need to start with a stronger anti-anxiety med to get him relaxed in the recovery suite.  You could also be giving some calmers a try to see if those would be enough once used for several days. Then possibly a transition full time to the callers would be all he needs. It is just a case of try and see what works best to keep him from pacing.

USING CALMERS
Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best.  It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription meds (ACE, alprazolam or traZODone). Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog.

Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is:
--DOG Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/

Use diffusor with one oral calmer from below:
Oral calmers:
1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health
2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine.
www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php

Pam here is the info on Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient of famotidine.

C.. PEPCID AC: He seems to burp quite a bit will this help?
(NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html )
45 lbs Dozer  X 0.44mgs famotidine = 19.8mgs famotidine.  
Round up to a full 20mgs famotidine tab and give every 12 hours (2x/day)

When you can, verify with vet Dozer does NOT have any health issues to not take Pepcid AC.  Since he IS having diarrhea, may be a good idea to start now as it suppresses acids that Prednisone causes.


SIDE EFFECTS of psyllium husks
Digestive distress: Psyllium fiber can create bloating, gas, abdominal discomfort, cramping and diarrhea

Is there any red or black blood in the diarrhea?

PLAIN PUREED PUMPKIN
There have been no reports of dogs having difficulty with pumpkin since I've been on the Forum since 2007.

Plain pureed canned pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. Give a teaspoon of pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight,
NOTE: alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potatoe

--To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each already re-hydrated freeze-dried meal and soak overnight.   The idea is more water means the pumpkin will loosen stool.  You may need to use less water, just see how it goes.
   At mealtime add 4 1/2 teaspoons of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day to his dinner.

-- To firm up the stool add 4 1/2 teaspoons  plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day to kibble.

PREDNISONE
  For how many days is he to take prednisone 5mgs 3x/day?  
Then what is rest of the Prednisone schedule til the last days of every other day?


How is Dozer today?  Any signs of pain nearing next dose of pain meds (Gabapentin, Methocarbamol)?

Pam, the idea with using pain meds with a disc episode is to be consistent VS up and down with  only when pain appears. When pain surfaces then you are too late! Always assume a painful disease is painful and give the meds promptly on time every 8 hrs as prescribed (not on a up and down basis every several days or so).

In general the only time to lower meds (usually it would be a full stop of pain meds) is on the date Prednisone taper starts. The taper is the time to test for pain.

Dozer IS currently in a taper now at 5mgs 3x/day.
-- You report signs of pain (muscle spasms in his shoulder and limping with the right shoulder.
-- You are the eyes and ears at home for your vet and need to quickly report signs of pain and any new or increased neuro function loss.
-- With your report of pain, then clearly it would not be time to continue with the taper going to 8/28 5mgs Pred 1x/day.
-- Instead your vet would very likely go back up to the original anti-inflammatory Prednisone level dose of 10mgs 2x/day. Your vet might say a 7-day course (and then try another pred taper at the end of the 7 days to test for pain).

Did your vet say Dozer had a neck disc or did he suspicion the disc to be in the back?  Even if not a neck disc these extra things you can do at home won't hurt:  dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tips/


Did you have any trouble setting up email alerts to you for #2) Bookmark a thread when posts have been made on Dozer's thread?  dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread   

Pam,  Composure can take several days to build up before it works to calm. It also works best with used along with a DAP fall plugin diffusor.  What date did you start giving Composure?

You reported pain on Friday 8/27. Did  the prednisone taper continue on 8/28 to a further lower to 5mg 1x/day?

Panting can be a sign of pain OR a sign of anxiety OR can possibly be related to prednisone use.

If pain, you would very likely also see other signs of pain besides the shoulder muscle spasm and limping with from leg. On the taper of prednisone, this means it would not be time to continue with the taper doses of going down to 5mgs 1x/day scheduled for 8/28. Your vet would likely go back up to the original Prednisone anti-inflammatory level dose. Were you able to contact your vet on Aug 27 and report pain?

If panting is related to Prednisone use:
-- Try a fan near crate but not pointed at the dog to help circulate air some.
-- Try a frozen broth ice cube to lick on.

Dr. Isaacs discusses this issue: www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/panting.htm

If related to stress, anxiety, then first he may need the vet's help of a prescription med.  Composure works best when also used with a DAP plug in diffusor.  When the combo DAP + Composure has had days to build up, then experiment by stopping the vet Rx sedative to see if the two calmers are enough to help Dozer relax at night and during the day.  If not, then Dozer may just need to continue on with the vet's anxiety medication.

When your brain is calm and rested and Dozer is OK, please do paint a full picture for us with all the details of dates, his current pain situation, any changes to meds.

So update. Around 2 pm 8/29 he woke up, had a big drink, ate the rest of his breakfast, went outside to hang in hi x pen a bit. Enjoyed an ice pack on his back fell asleep. Woke up around four pacing panting and had pooped the crate. Wouldn’t drink. I put a compose in his mouth and he ate it-seems to have settled a bit but I’m afraid he will hurt himself more if I try to hold him so I put him back in his cleaned crater

Poop is normal.

His crate is 2ft by 3ft so you wouldn’t think he could pace in it, but he is.
I’ve called two emergency vets -both suggesting roughing it out until tomorrow.

Meanwhile, panting and pacing nonstop. Nearest vet open on a Sunday around her is an hour away

Dozer was put to sleep at 11am this morning. Vet believed spinal or brain tumor.