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Post by Lisa & Charlie on Jun 11, 2021 22:44:45 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Lisa's Charlie - IVDD diagnosis on 5/23]
Hello! I’m Lisa and my dog Charlie is a 9 year old Havanese. He weighs about 18 lb, which is a healthy weight for him (though he’s a little taller than the breed standard).
On 5/23, Charlie was started yelping whenever he made a sudden movement, followed by intense trembling [5/23]. I felt his body all over to see if I could determine what was wrong, and felt a large bump (about 2”) to the right of his spine in the mid/low back that hadn’t been there before. We took him to the emergency vet, who gave a preliminary IVDD diagnosis [ER] but did an x-ray to rule out a tumor. He said the ‘mass’ was actually a muscle knot caused by the IVDD. He gave him a shot of methadone dor pain, and prescribed the following:
-3 500mg methocarbamol tablets: 1/4 tablet twice daily for 5 days
-Metacam oral suspension (1.5 mg/ml): .6 ml once daily for 5 days
-100 mg Gabapentin (every 8 hrs for 5 days, 1-2 times daily for another 10 days)
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
18lbs 9 y.o.
X-ray to rule out spine tumor
Metacam® as of 5/23: 1.5mg/mL: 0.6mL 1x/day for 5 days then 5/28 test stop for _pain/_neuro
methocarbamol 125mgs 2x/day; STOP 5/28
gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day, then 5/28 1-2x/day for 10 days; STOP 6/6]
He finished his meds [6/10] two days ago, and seems to be comfortable, though isn’t particularly happy with confinement. He can walk fine and is eating, drinking, and going to the bathroom normally. He’s still got a slight bump, though it’s much better, and he seems slightly hunched but not too bad. The ER vet who diagnosed him told us crate rest no for 2 weeks [ER]. We contacted his regular vet, who said 4 weeks [DVM]. I have read here and heard from others with experience 8 weeks. I’m inclined to be very conservative to ensure he has time to heal, but curious to hear your take, especially since he is a little old to be having his first IVDD episode based on my research. I asked if we could confirm the diagnosis and they both said that the only way to be 100% sure is with a more invasive procedure like a MRI, which isn’t indicated in his case. They also said seeing a specialist isn’t necessarily warranted unless the pain continues or returns.
The one other piece of history that may be relevant is that about 2 years ago he was diagnosed with mild arthritis in his hips. His main symptom was kicking his back legs… kind of holding his hips low to the ground and kicking out his back legs (like some dogs do to cover up their poop with dirt) . Is it possible this was actually an early IVDD symptom?
I’m just wondering what the long term should look like for him. We have already decided no more jumping or stairs— it’s not worth the risk. But he loves going to the beach, running, and digging in the sand. He also loves walks around our neighborhood (usually around a mile)? Do we need to cut back on or stop these activities too? We were also in the early stages of considering adding a puppy to the family— he loves other dogs, and we finally have enough space for two. But is a puppy a terrible idea? Charlie is of course our #1 priority, but I wouldn’t want him to miss out on a companion if it would likely be ok (I’ll add that he is highly trainable, so we don’t think it will be too much of an issue to train him to do things differently).
Thank you so much for any advice!!
Best,
Lisa
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Post by Jessica on Jun 12, 2021 10:04:18 GMT -7
Welcome to the forum, Lisa! We are glad you have joined us here. We have valuable information to share from our own experiences with IVDD and the vets that Dodgerslist consults. Learn more about us and the veterinarians we team up with here: dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides the limited movement needed to allow good strong scar tissue to form. With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. Dodgerslist advocates for 8 weeks to ensure the disc has had adequate time to heal. Too much movement and the damaged disc can rupture or tear more, causing more pain and a worsening of neurological damage. Charlie is a good candidate for conservative treatment, and you can go off the presumed IVDD diagnosis. A MRI is usually needed when surgery is recommended. STRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/ ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎At home laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best. Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place (no stairs) and then allow a very few limited footsteps. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to a minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!  As Charlie feels better, strict crate rest does become more of a challenge. There are a few things you can do to make it go more smoothly for both of you, for example: - Place the suite near a window with a view, on the coffee table in front of couch where you sit.
- Place the suite so the dog will be in the middle of family activities, near your bed at night.
- Secure the suite if a wire crate to a flat moving dolly (or put casters on plywood) to easily move the suite room to room.
- Fill a kong or a lick mat with a small amount, a slight slather of soft dog food and freeze.
Tips to adjust to the recovery suite: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/tips-to-help-with-recovery-suite/%E2%80%8BCalming aids: dodgerslist.com/tag/calmersSuper tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more!: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/After the strict crate rest period, there are some activities to avoid (like the no stairs/jumping you mention), but plenty more Charlie can participate in. There are some great ideas here: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly and here: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/16/have-fun-nose-work. You can build up gradually with walks and make adjustments for a puppy friend by avoiding too rambunctious play. We'll have more to share when Charlie graduates. I'm glad to hear Charlie does not seem to be in pain now, but do keep an eye on the arched back. Is this new or did it start when symptoms began? These are the signs of pain typically associated with a disc episode: shivering-trembling, ears pinned back, tight tense tummy, arched back, yelping when picked up or moved, restless, can't find a comfortable position, slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shifting positions, not their normal perky selves. My dog was around 10 when he had his first IVDD episode. It does get a little murky with slight arthritis in the mix. Call your vet if you notice worsening or more than one symptom of pain. Helpful flyer on emergencies and actions to take: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/emergency-fridge-flyer2.pdfRoadmap for conservative care: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 12, 2021 11:17:22 GMT -7
Lisa, do be sure to scroll back up to Jessica's excellent post on the single most important care of STRICT rest to allow the disc to heal. Since there was pain only and the anti-inflammatory Metacam treatment got the inflamed spinal cord resolved, it is very likely a disc episode. There are no medications to help a disc heal. The body will self heal the cartilage of the disc. This is similar to a person staying off and resting their ankle's cartilage ligament. We've been observing over 15,000 dogs since the beginning of Dodgerslist Forum 2002. Members have not reported harm with 8 weeks of rest, but those members who shorted the 8 weeks of STRICT rest, have often reported a relapse to the disc. That costs the dog pain, often a degree of neuro function loss and the need to begin from square one in the 8 weeks count of allowing the disc to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. A disc episode typically will present (if the dog was born with IVDD) in a range of 3-7 years old. Not always, but usually in that range. For example one of my doxies had a surgery at age 1 for her disc. On the Forum, many 7+ y.o. dogs have a disc episode. Now that you have an understanding that Charlie was born with IVDD, it is prudent to learn all you can, so that you and your family can enjoy many happy years ahead. Below are a couple of pointers to the Dodgerslist Main Website to start you off in your readings. Check out the handy orange search bar at the top of each of the Dodgerslist webpages too! 1) Shortcut through IVDD: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/26/time-and-ivdd/2) Tips for making STRICT rest go smoother, including how to handle times out of the suite such as potty time how to's : dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/At the 8 week graduation date, we'll have lots of good safe and gradual ideas to re-introduce physical activity and family activity of long walks to maintain core muscle strength and back safety training for Charlie. Those things would be good puppy training, too. So mark your calendar for July 18th! You know Charlie best how he might handle a puppy. My 17 y.o. was not into joining in with rambunctious puppy play that might not be suitable for an IVDD dog. But did he did like snuggling to sleep together. A puppy takes a lot of attention that you may need to devote to Charlie during the STRICT rest period that ends on July 18th.  We'd love you to keep us posted on how things are going with Charlie during the next weeks AND, of course, definitely on graduation day July 18th. |
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Post by Lisa & Charlie on Jul 18, 2021 18:03:11 GMT -7
Thank you so much for the advice and resources! Happy to report that charlie has graduated from his crate rest today! We have a ramp for the couch and to get down from our porch into the back yard. He is thrilled to have some freedom, but we’re trying to get him to take it slow— a little easier said than done now that he feels fine!! We have some puzzle toys now for non exercise-stimulation, but are excited to reintroduce short walks little by little, and eventually hopefully get him back to his happy place- the beach! We also started him on a supplement called Ligaplex in addition to the glucosamine he’s been on. Has anyone used this? Any other suggestions to keep him healthy and avoid another episode? Thanks again for all the great resources and time you put into this! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 19, 2021 8:16:47 GMT -7
Lisa, congrats on Charlie having completed 8 weeks of rest to get the disc to heal! Right you are to slowly introduce physical activity! If there were to be pain, you'd want to rule out it was not sore muscles due to overdoing things, but might be a different disc issue to seek vet help on. Fingers crossed for a very good re-entry to family life for Charlie.  GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION Determine how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free riegn of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Here is a sample schedule to slowly introduce your dog back to family life and physical activity: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/?highlight=sample%20schedule **So glad to hear you have made your home back friendly with ramps instead of stairs/steps. What about blocking off furniture and training to keep all four paws on the ground? DIY PVC blockers and other ideas: dodgerslist.com/2020/07/09/home-protect-ivdd-backs Lots more ideas and tips in living with an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tipsPT THERAPY Since Charlie CAN walk, the PT is to slowly build up his stamina and leg strength and to strengthen his core muscles which support the spine. --- Walking in water and the sand at a beach would be wonderful exercise. --- Increase daily walks slowly to build muscle strength. --- Swimming is a good exercise for all muscles including the core muscles. --- --- Do some therapy at meal times. Feed dinner a few kibbles at a time, for sit to stands. Reward for pushing up from a sit to a stand. Reward for command "sit".
 ** Please celebrate Charlie's graduation! Add a graduation photo to our Gallery to give other members inspiration about your IVDD Survivor! dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/add-dog-dodgerslist-photo-gallerySUPPLEMENTS Joint supplement may or may not work. If in your budget, then no harm to give them a try. |
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