|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 8, 2021 13:21:06 GMT -7
[Original Subject Post-surgery for a doxie who lost mobility in all 4 legs]
☀︎1-- 10.5 year old Dachshund (he may be mixed with Min Pin, he has longer legs than a typical doxie) named Bennett Heather Rowe, we're in the US ☀︎2-- 20-21 lbs. ☀︎3-- at Upstate Vet Specialists in Greenville, SC ☀︎4-- He just had surgery today, 6/8/21, before noon (a little less than 24 hours after the injury, which happened some time between 1 and 3pm yesterday, 6/7/21) and is still at the clinic and will be for another 3-5 days. We will follow strict crate rest and any other directions provided by the doctor. ☀︎5-- What did your surgeon direct for PT (always a supervised, eye-ball to eyeball controlled therapy)?Unknown at this time ☀︎6-- How many weeks did the surgeon want for crate rest including his directives for supervised and controlled PT? Unknown at this time ☀︎7- currently pain? -He's being monitored at the vet clinic. ☀︎8-- Pain meds are being administered at the clinic. ☀︎9-- Prior to the surgery he was paralyzed from the neck down, no motor skills in any of his legs and knuckling on both the front and back. He did have some deep pain sensation. The neurologist considers him very severely affected but has given him a very good prognosis (80-90% recovery). According to the MRI, he had a herniated disc at the C4-5. The doctor said it was causing moderate compression and that she was able to remove what she needed to during the surgery and that the spinal cord looked good after (nice and flat were her words). ☀︎10-- Unknown at this time, the clinic has been expressing him. ☀︎11-- He had not been given any food yesterday since they figured he would be having an MRI and surgery this morning. They were going to offer food this afternoon so I'll check when the dr. calls tonight with the update. I am just beside myself with worry and have been trying to focus on getting the house ready for his return. Though I've had doxies for almost 20 years, this is my first spinal surgery and I am just so scared. Is it common for this type of injury to cause loss of mobility in all 4 limbs? Could it be something else or something more than the herniated disc at the C4-5? Also, what do you recommend for the recovery suite? We have a wire crate that is the perfect size for him that I'm pretty sure we can use your tips for making it a flip top, is it better to get him through the regular side opening or lean over to pick him up, especially is he has no mobility? Thank you! |
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 8, 2021 14:23:42 GMT -7
Welcome back to Dodgerslist, Heather. We are glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve learned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you! Learn more about us and how we team up with veterinarians: dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/Disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions? Re-think things: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/hope-quality-life/A cervical disc herniation can cause paralysis in all 4 limbs. Unless the surgeon told you otherwise, the symptoms are almost certainly caused by this.
When your Bennett comes home, the surgeon will probably recommend between 4- 6 weeks of crate rest to allow the surgical site to heal. The surgeon may recommend some PT to perform at home. There is additional information about post-surgical PT here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/27/surgery-dog-pt
We have information on setting up a comfy recovery suite here:
It may be difficult to pick Bennett up from the top as he weighs 20 lbs and it is important to keep the back straight when lifting him. It may be easier to place a fleece sheet on top of the mattress where you can slowly pull it along with Bennettt closer to the crate door to more easily reach him.
There are some tips on caring for a dog with neck disk issues here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tipsDr Isaacs DVM, ACVIM (Neurology) answers some questions about surgery here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/12/dr-isaacs-surgery-answers
Discharge day will be very exciting, and it will be easy to forget to ask all of your questions. Here's a starter list of questions to which you can add some of your concerns. That way you will have everything at hand to make sure you get the answers you will need.:
It is very scary when our dogs are diagnosed with IVDD. The more information you have about the disease, the less scary it will be. We have a lot of information at our main website. www.dodgerslist.comUse the search bar at the top to search for specific topics.
Please keep us up to date on Bennett's recovery. |
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 8, 2021 15:26:25 GMT -7
Oh my goodness, thank you so much for all of the information!!! I will be reading through everything tonight and tomorrow and cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate this. I feel very lost so the questions will be a huge help when he gets discharged.
I just spoke with the vet for his nightly update and he appears to be comfortable. The doctor confirmed that when it's all 4 legs it's the neck, basically it's where the injury is on down that can be paralyzed. They will try giving him something to eat around 8 tonight, they wanted to wait a little after the anesthesia. And they told me it's likely he won't tonight and maybe not even tomorrow morning since he's on some pretty heavy opioids. As much as my heart wants to see him, I'm not going to visit him and disturb him or make him upset or sad but I did let them know I would absolutely go down to visit him and try to get him to eat if needed.
The doctor has said that it may be up to 4 weeks before he starts to show improvement and thankfully I work from home so I'll be able to do everything I possibly can for him and to help with his recovery. I just want to do the right things! We are committed to this little guy, he is so precious to us, so we will do whatever it takes!
You are a fantastic resource! Thank you for responding so quickly and I will absolutely keep you posted, and am sure to have many more questions!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 8, 2021 17:04:02 GMT -7
Heather, having deep pain sensation prior to surgery can be a predictor of future nerve healing to take place! You have the right attitude and positive energy to be a great caregiver post-op. Love hearing you are reading and getting up to speed on IVDD things— Bennett will be in good hands at home.
We will be looking forward to more updates as you get them
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 9, 2021 9:37:00 GMT -7
The morning update from the neurologist included the report that he peed on his own! They found the little puddle in his crate. No neurological changes but she said that's normal within the first 24 hours after surgery. He hasn't eaten yet but that could be due to the heavy pain meds they have had him on and they will begin transitioning to oral pain meds this afternoon so hopefully he'll eat dinner or at least breakfast tomorrow. I will go down if he's not eating by tomorrow afternoon to see if I can get him to eat, but I really don't want to disturb or upset him. He also showed his teeth this morning, which is normal for him. He does not really care for strangers so that's true to his personality...he's a sweet boy who can also be snarly with those he doesn't know and trust.
So, now my biggest fear/concern is how to how to pick him up safely, without hurting him, from a laying position if he's unable to help. The vet assured me it would be fine and that they would show us how. It's not so much the carrying part as we have already been doing that for years with him to go and down the stairs, it's the getting him up. Do you have any pointers?
Thank you!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 9, 2021 9:53:06 GMT -7
Heather, we'd love to hear some head level association with release of urine. So when you next get a report ask if there was a sniff and then release of urine. For us humans to be able to distinguish between reflex and brain directed, we have to see some sort of head level involvement with the tail, with a limb or with release of urine so we know the movement was done with purposeful thinking. --- Sniff (head level nose) on an old peed spot, then release of urine would be brain directed. --- Hear (head level ear) you doing some happy talk and then tail wags is brain directed. Tail and leg movements during potty time can often be a reflex --- Itchy sensation at neck and then tries to scratch would be purposeful movement. Tickling paws, etc. can cause reflex leg movements of pushing in or out. It is easy to properly lift and carry Bennett. Here are different ways. It is all about keeping the back horizontal to the ground to support the spine and protect discs. LIFT and CARRY (support both ends, back horizontal to the ground)  When lifting from the floor, be sure to protect your own back by squatting and using your legs to raise up with Bennett in your arms:
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 10, 2021 14:28:46 GMT -7
I got to see our boy today! He's eating well and the doctor told me last night that based on the volume of urine they have been seeing that it's purposeful peeing. And when I saw him today, his tail made a couple of tiny moves. He gobbled up some boiled chicken I had brought and snarled and gave a little bark when the tech tried to put the muzzle back on (he's pretty protective of me and she was in our space) and it was wonderful to see his normal little personality. I laid down on the floor with him and he was calm, not focused on me but I think he could smell the chicken... he was definitely happy about the chicken!
The doctor also said he is using his nose to try to move himself/prop himself up. The tech showed me how she lifts him from him laying down and how to flip him, which they're doing 3-4 times a day and we will continue doing. The moving him is really the only scary part for me! I'll be practicing on our other dog!
We have his normal crate, which is 30" long x 22" wide x 25" inches high and we bought an additional one so he can sleep upstairs in the bedroom with us and that one is 36" long x 23" wide x 25" high and came with a divider so we can shorten the length. He is about 23" long and with his paws stretched out about 14" wide...will both crates be a good size for his recovery suite?
Thank you!
|
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 10, 2021 15:00:14 GMT -7
Bennett's moving his tail, even just a little, upon seeing you is good news.
With moving him, just as with lifting, the key thing is keeping the back straight. It can't hurt to practice on your other dog, but it may be different with Bennett. Your other dog may cooperate by moving himself a bit, while Bennett cannot.
The crates sound a bit large. The crate should only be large enough for him to stand up, turn around and stretch out while lying down. If the crate is bigger than that, simply pad around the edges with a rolled up towel or blanket.
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 10, 2021 16:00:33 GMT -7
We'll pad out the edges of the crate, that will give him a pillow as well and the vet tech said he likes his little pillow.
I also should have mentioned that the doctor told me he has feeling in his limbs! When I was visiting today, I asked how they know and the tech showed me by lightly messing around with one of his back feet and responded by lifting his head and looking at her.
Thank you!
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 12, 2021 15:13:30 GMT -7
We were able to visit our boy this afternoon! He was alert, bright and interactive - we got lots of kisses! He was laying on the exam table and I wrapped my arms around him and he rested his little head on my left arm. My right arm was against his front and his front legs were curled up against his chest - he stretched one of his front legs out! We were not messing with his paw or anything and all of a sudden he stretched it out and pushed against my arm!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 12, 2021 15:56:50 GMT -7
Heather, it sounds like a wonderful visit that lifted Bennett's spirits..... that is really good for healing! Once released to home, too, will be extra benefit as most dogs do much better in familiar surroundings/smells and family faces. Has there been any discussion when discharge day might be?
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 13, 2021 6:22:38 GMT -7
We are expecting to bring him home tomorrow, Monday 6/14, afternoon! I have my list of questions and will be getting the crate ready for travel today. We're going to video the tech picking him up and flipping him so we can be sure to move him correctly when we get home.
I know it will be good for his recovery to be home where it's quiet and familiar. Thankfully I consult and work from home so I'll be with him during the day with the exception of an errand here and there.
He's used to his crate and has often spent time in it; we also crate him when we leave the house. He used to sleep in a crate in the kitchen up until a few years ago so we're hoping he's okay being in a crate at night as well. We have a crate set up right next to our bed and we have put our mattress on the floor to be closer to him so hopefully he will be okay with that...any suggestions if he's inconsolable in the crate?
I read the tips on the crate-training but am mostly wondering about how he'll adapt at night, to being in the crate next to us.
Thank you!
|
|
|
|
Post by Ann Brittain on Jun 13, 2021 7:03:25 GMT -7
It's great that Bennett is doing so well and will be coming home.
We arranged to sleep closer to Buster when he came home after surgery. We were able to reach in and touch him when he fussed. It worked out good for us. Since Bennett is used to being crated, I expect he'll be okay sleeping in it too, especially since you'll be nearby.
I worked at home, like you do, and had a recovery area for Buster in my office. That way, I could keep an eye on him and he didn't feel isolated in another room. We also spent time with him on the floor when we were watching TV or in the living room.
As Bennett heals, and is off meds that help him sleep and relax, he may become more insistent about getting out of his crate. But it's important to stick to crate rest for the recommended period of time, so Bennett's nerves can heal. It really goes quicker than you'd think and you'll be so happy when he's able to resume some of his normal activities!
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 13, 2021 7:38:31 GMT -7
Guess who's getting himself onto his chest now?! The dr. gave us the morning update and said she's seeing him upright in his crate more often now! She thinks he may have more movement than he's letting on. When she takes him outside and tries to get him to advance, he goes limp but she thinks some of that may be him being a little lazy. She says sometimes patients are more motivated at home. His neurologist will call us in the morning and let us know if he'll be able to come home tomorrow afternoon (6/14)!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 13, 2021 9:51:43 GMT -7
Heather, just the best ever report on Bennett's progress!!!! Do be sure to discuss when Bennett can pursue underwater treadmill if it is in your budget and in your area. He would really be able to greatly benefit from this particular kind of therapy. Here is why: The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again. Here is more on water therapy plus some you can do at home: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/We are very excited to hear if discharge day can be tomorrow and what all your Neuro says. |
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 14, 2021 15:08:41 GMT -7
Our boy is home! Gobbled up his dinner, gave us a full tail wag, and has himself upright in the crate! Here's a photo...  He's on Gabapentin 50 mg 1.5 tablets every 8 hours and is on his final taper of Prednisone 5 mg 1/2 tablet every 24 hours. We also have Trazadone 100 mg that can be given every 8 hours as needed (he has not had any in over 8 hours). [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
prednisone in final taper doses
gabapentin 75mgs 3x/day
traZODone 100mgs up to 3x/day as needed]4 weeks of strict crate rest. Perform standing and passive range of motion exercises 3-4 times per day. And we have a recheck appointment scheduled for 6/22. He's currently resting under a blanket in his crate right next to me. We are so grateful to have him home!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 14, 2021 16:07:11 GMT -7
Heather, that makes the whole family happy at home. Bennett is looking very good lying there upright all by him self! Let us what tomorrow brings after having good nights sleep tonight.
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 15, 2021 11:14:33 GMT -7
So far he's been resting well today! Last night and this morning I was able to get him to pee outside after he sniffed where our other dog peed (he likes to claim things as his!). He did urinate in his crate overnight so we cleaned him up at 4am, but that was my fault, I gave him way too much water before bed.
Now, we just need him to poop! The last time he pooped was yesterday (6/14) at 1:00 am. I'm not worried yet, the doctor said not to be concerned unless it's been 2-3 days. We do have canned pumpkin ready if needed though. Any tips for encouraging him to poop? He was going on his own while at the clinic (was not being expressed).
Thank you!
UPDATE: I just got pretty excited to see poop! Bennett just went outside (6/15 at 5pm) when I set him down in one of his favorite spots and it was perfect poop!
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 15, 2021 15:13:49 GMT -7
Heather, sounds like things are going in a good direction with a good poop, now.
Be sure to focus on Bennett when outside to potty. No other dogs should be around at that time. You might give it a try about 2 hrs before bedtime to give a last lap of water to Bennett. That will give him time for a before bedtime potty break.
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jun 17, 2021 13:22:58 GMT -7
We are getting lots of tail wags, which is fantastic and normal for Bennett! I've also seen him stretch his legs while sleeping/resting and sometimes he pushes back against the range of motion exercises. We've also seen him rub his front paw over his nose, which is something he does when he's being extra silly and cute. And, when I have him upright to eat, I place his front legs off the edge of the bed with the paw pads on the ground and he has tried to push [front legs] up a few times in that position. So, all good things!
He does seem to be getting restless in the crate. He'll sit up/roll up onto his chest and whine. He's not acting painful (still moving his head around, eating with gusto, flinging the blanket over his head), more frustrated than anything else. He woke us up this morning (6/17) at 3:30 am whining and being restless and we took him out and he peed. He did the same thing at 5:30 am but did not do anything when we took him out. He loves mornings though, prior to the injury he would climb up us and give us lots of kisses, so I think he was just ready to get up. He did the same kind of whining this afternoon around 3:00, it's like he can't get settled. He receives his Gabapentin at 7am, 3pm, and 11pm, which I know helps him be more restful.
Any tips on what we should do? We do have some Trazadone, should we give him some?
Thank you!
|
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 17, 2021 13:40:49 GMT -7
Great to hear that Bennett is doing so well. Often when dogs start feeling better they want to get moving. They think they are fine but we, pet parents, know better. We know that it is crate rest that will help the disc to heal. Prescription medicines like trazadone, are sedatives which will help keep a dog calm in the crate, but there are other more natural ways to consider. DAP diffusers contain Dog Appeasing Pheromones which are given off by nursing mothers. Use the DAP diffuser with an oral calmer for best results. We have information about these and other methods for calming in the crate here: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/tips-to-help-with-recovery-suite |
|
|
|
Post by Heather & Bennett on Jul 21, 2021 8:36:48 GMT -7
Our little boy is a miracle! He had an excellent check-up with his neurologist and she is impressed with his progress! She removed him from strict crate-rest though we are still placing him in it quite a bit (this is no different from when I used to work away from home) and she wanted him to still sleep in it at night for now.
She also moved us to walking him on his leash in the flat parts of the yard for short periods of time 2-3 x per day because he has progressed so well - see latest video below! And we can increase his time walking a little each week.
We are so incredibly fortunate...between divine intervention, his strong-will, and all the support we received, Bennett has showed us just how amazing he is!
Now, I just need to work on being a paranoid mama and not treating him like he's too fragile so he can be his normal doggy self!
Thank you!
|
|
|
|
Post by Jessica on Jul 23, 2021 10:00:57 GMT -7
Way to go, Bennett! It's wonderful to see the progress he has made. Great job to both of you.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
|
Post by PaulaM on Jul 23, 2021 12:31:14 GMT -7
Heather, congratulations for Bennett's graduation! He does look great in his walking gait!! Keep on doing what you are doing with the surgeon's gradual increase in walking each week. I think you will find this essay by one of our members to help in your perspective of letting Bennett be Bennett! The essay in on our graduation board here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivdd?page=1GRADUATION Have you considered these ideas to help make your home back friendly for Bennett? Make your home back friendly with ramps instead of stairs, blocking off furniture and training to keep all four paws on the ground: dodgerslist.com/2020/07/09/home-protect-ivdd-backsLots more ideas and tips in living with an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tipsPlease celebrate Bennett's graduation! Add a graduation photo to our Gallery to give other members inspiration about your IVDD Survivor! Heather, education about disc disease is our number one mission! We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Too many dogs have been put to sleep because owners lack education about IVDD treatment. STRICT crate rest and proper medication has helped many dogs recover. We would like all of our members to pay it forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate everywhere! Pick what suits you....
We depend on you. Here are some ways to help... -- "Share" our FB posts www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist-- When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) give out our free little wallet cards. Hand carry our literature and print out our letter of introduction for your vet. Ask Linda to send you a free brochure packet for your vet and wallet cards for you: dodgerslist.com/free-literature-2/---- Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions about surgery? We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/13/member-reported-surgery-costs-recommendationsState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: Please don't be a stranger. Periodically let us know how Bennett continues to do, it helps new members to see there is always hope ahead for a good life. |
|
