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Post by NinaColada on Apr 28, 2021 19:21:40 GMT -7
Please do no edit this post. If info needs to be update or corrected, make a new post. Thank you!
[orig subject line : Bubba (rottie) 4/20 Conservative Lumbar?? Unsure! ]  Hi everyone, I have a 10 year old Rottie who just had TPLO [knee surgery: Tibial-plateau-leveling osteotomy] surgery in November. A couple weeks ago our dog jumped up on the couch and yelped loud but didn’t start limping and seemed he was fine. Our surgeon said he probably twisted his knee. Fast forward two weeks later and he had low energy and did not want to get up for a day or two- only to eat or go outside to go to the bathroom. Then two days later we notice he [date?] can’t stand on his back legs. [added from a 4/29 post: The first night he could not walk, we gave him one Rimadyl (100mg). there was only one day inbetween him taking the one Rimadyl and Prednisone. ]The next morning we took him to our surgeon (who is amazing btw) and they run xrays. This whole time we think it has to do with his knee surgery. They found it actually has to do with his spine in the X-rays. They found his left hind leg is paralyzed.
Our doc said it looks like it could be IVDD or something similar, FCE (spinal stroke), injury or possibly a tumor. He said in order to know exactly what it is, we would need to do an MRI, however at his age, they do not suggest doing spinal surgery (if they end up finding anything on the MRI). Everyone agreed it makes sense to opt out of the $2k MRI especially since we spent $6K on TPLO six months ago and try a conservative approach to see if it helps. The doc suggested we try steroids ( prednisone) for the next 10 days to see if we see any improvement. Luckily we have! He has his energy back, he can sit up and he also has his appetite. He is now able to control his bladder and bowels (which was a struggle the first couple days). His bowels were bloody the first couple of days and same w his urine. The blood in his urine is slowly going away but it still has us concerned. Does this happen with IVDD sometimes? We thought it was because he was holding it in for so long. (Approx 3-4 days) I wanted to reach out to see if anyone knows if this sounds similar to IVDD and if anyone knows of any therapies available in Southern California. Or if anyone knows of a specialist in So Cal who can point us i the right direction so we can start doing some therapy (acupuncture, laser therapy, etc) and if that would be a good idea considering the situation. I appreciate your help and any suggestions. Thank u for having this website! It has helped ease my mind about all the worry! ☆ 1 pain? Not that we are aware. He has his personality back and seems to hide pain well. He sometimes whines because needs to adjust he needs something or. He has vastly improved since last week. ☆ 2 100 lbsPrednisone started on 4/21 at 40 mg first two days, 20 mg for the next two days and now he is on 10 mg for five days (we are currently at 10 mg once a day) Pepcid AC - 10 mg with prednisone [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
100 lbs 10 y.o Rottie
Rimadyl as of 4/29: 100mgs 1x/day for 1 day
4/21 no double stomach protection Pepcid + sucralfate for switch to pred
prednisone as of 4/21: 20mgs 2x/day for 2 days, 4/23 test taper for: _pain / _neuro
Pepcid AC 10mgs 1x/day ]
☆ 3 -- Vigorous eating like his usual self. Food motivated. Had slight red last week but has improved. Blood in urine. He has been subsiding but still has us concerned ☆ 4 Bubba Rottweiler 10 years old - My name is Nina ☆ 5 Did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: Unsure. Surgeon suggests $2K MRI ☆ 6 Saw vet on 4/20 for conservative treatment ☆ 7 No, he is able to hold his urine until we can take him outside but he is unable to stand without help. He would not be able to stand on his own without support and finish urinating.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,535
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 29, 2021 7:15:50 GMT -7
Nina, until you know this is not a disc episode, it is prudent to act like it is. A current disc episode mean STRICT REST for 8 weeks to allow the disc to heal. Nerve healing is a separate issue where the body will self heal to the degree possible. With bladder control intact that bodes well for nerves to self-repair over time. Nerves are slow to heal so expectation might be months ranther than days/weeks.
ACTION TO TAKE1) Red or black blood in poop is due to GI tract damage from the prednisone. Some dogs will need not only Pepcid AC but also precription SUCRALFATE added in. Discuss this with your vet. 2) Blood in urine can be due to a bladder infection starting. A urine sample that your vet runs an in-house urinalysis on verifies if there is a bacterial infection and need for antibiotic. Discuss today with vet a means to get a urine sample in. Transporting a large dog is a lot of potential movement when STRICT rest is the key to healing a disc! 3) Whining or crying out when having to move IS a sign of pain. TODAY report this sign of pain and discuss adding a pain med AND if prednisone needs to be extended. The taper of prednisone is a test to find out of there is pain — Pred is currently in a taper. EDUCATION is INSTRUMENTAL in RECOVERYPlease read so you get a sense of how, why the STRICT REST is essential with a disc episode. Browse through the tried and true ways to provide Effective STRICT Rest Recovery for your dog: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/Avoid dangerous detours, follow the "Roadmap" VIEW, DOWNLOAD and print a copy for your fridge from here: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdfQUESTIONSWhat are the credentials of the surgeon: 1) DVM 2) DVM + neuro ACVIM 3) DVM + ortho ACVS ?How many times a day is Pepcid AC given?EMAIL ALERTS The guest board is a courtesy until you can register. Timely interaction/ communications is needed when helping your dog. How to register and set up: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread Thank you! |
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Post by NinaColada on Apr 29, 2021 11:00:21 GMT -7
Thank you PaulaM!
Our surgeon is: DVM Diplomate ACVS
We give him the Pepcid when he takes the prednisone.
Right now he is taking 10 mg once a day of Prednisone. He is taking 10 mg of Famotidine (Pepcid AC) once a day at the same time.
The TPLO surgery- he tore his ACL back in November. Tibial-plateau-leveling osteotomy, is a surgery performed on dogs to stabilize the stifle joint after ruptures of the cranial cruciate ligament.
Thank you so so much for your help!
One thing I want to mention is the first night he could not walk, we gave him one Rimadyl (100mg) we had leftover from the TPLO surgery. We thought it would help him until our meeting with the surgeon the next day.
The next day is when we did the X-rays where they said it was a spinal problem. Our dog was prescribed Prednisone but we were told to wait until the next day to give it to him. So there was only one day inbetween him taking the one Rimadyl and Prednisone.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,535
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 29, 2021 11:16:59 GMT -7
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Post by NinaColada on Apr 29, 2021 12:06:16 GMT -7
Hi Paula, Thank you for sending me the harnesses! We got one from the vet but it ripped. He is a big dog. We also got one from Petco but it doesn’t quite fit him. I will definitely check it out. Yes he is on a tapered dose. He started at 20 mg 2x a day for 2 days then 10 mg 2x a day for 2 days Now he is on 10 mg once a day for five days (we are on day 3) |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 29, 2021 13:15:15 GMT -7
I hope you can find a harness that will fit Bubba and make it easier for you to move him. I used the "Help em Up" harness after my dog's surgery. It made things much easier.
Are you continuing to see blood in his urine or is that completely resolved now?
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Post by NinaColada on Apr 29, 2021 23:31:57 GMT -7
It looks like blood in his urine and poop has subsided from what we can tell. However, he has some hotspots on his elbows and he has been bleeding from his elbows. We think they are like bedsores and he is constantly laying on them so we think that is why? Or if the prednisone may cause increased bleeding?
Another thing that happened tonight is that he got a bloody nose which he never has had before.
So now he has front knees spotting blood and also a bloody nose. I will keep an eye out with his urine and stools to confirm but we didn’t see any blood in them today.
Also- he is only able to poop laying down. We do not know if he has control over pooping because he does it inside and outside the house laying down. But he does have control over urinating now and he waits until we take him outside and we can help support him up.
Thank you all for your help! I am so happy I found this site!
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Post by Nina & Bubba on Apr 29, 2021 23:47:08 GMT -7
I registered an account so here is my new profile. Thanks again everyone for your help and suggestions!
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Post by Stephanie on Apr 30, 2021 6:36:27 GMT -7
Hi Nina, Glad to hear the blood in his urine and poop seems to have subsided. What specifically do you mean by a bloody nose? Is it a sore or is Bubba's nose actually bleeding? I am going to provide some information on the hotspots, but you should definitely check in with your vet as well. Are the sores open and raw, or no broken skin but redness?
In the interim until you can get to the vet and discuss protection methods for the sores on his elbows, some people use self adhering Vetwrap® tape that can hold to his fur with some padding of gauze underneath the tape to act as a barrier. Your vet may have other ideas. There is brand X of the Vetwrap® on grocery store shelves.
VetWrap
3M Vetwrap® or brand X at grocery store. Be sure to not stretch and wrap too tightly that it will cut off circulation. Self sticking stretchy material to hold the gauze pad in place.
Neosporin
Antibiotic cream on grocery store shelves should pink skin become broken and open to infection.
Is Bubba's bed made of memory foam which is very good for preventing pressure point sores? Find memory foam at fabric shops, where baby bedding is sold for small size pieces. Can be cut with scissors into two or more mattresses. You could also find a dog bed made with memory foam as the insert.
Also, shifting the weight occasionally off of the sore areas can help, keeping in mind that you're moving him infrequently! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,535
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 30, 2021 9:10:49 GMT -7
Nina, very good suggestions for caring for bed sores supplies. With your reporting the sores are open and bleeding, do not wait. Call now today. Open sores can become infected by staph bateria. Your vet may want to prescribe an antibiotic. Staph is nothing to fool around with.
Let us know what your vet says...this is important so we are anxious to learn what he says about
--- how often to reposition the weigh from his knees/elbows
--- what padding might help reduce pressure points. ARE you using a memory foam mattress?
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Post by Nina & Bubba on Apr 30, 2021 13:14:02 GMT -7
Thank you both for your responses. I emailed the vet since that is the quickest way to get a reply. He is calling in antibiotics to our local pharmacy. Not sure yet what they will be sending but I will update once I know.
As far as the nose bleed, he said it could be a coincidence and it is not a side effect of the steroids. He said he is worried it maybe a more alarming sign related to a tumour/cancer we maybe seeing a coagulopathy or blood clotting disorder.
The thing is- we have since noticed the nose bleed is only in one nostril. And I also have a friend who mentioned a few days ago that their dog bled when taking prednisone so hoping it’s just a coincidence. We will see and I will update once I have more answers.
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Post by Nina & Bubba on Apr 30, 2021 13:16:28 GMT -7
Also, he does not have “memory” foam but we rotate him on different foam dog mattresses. I also bought a large furry waterproof blanket from paws.com which was a huge help during this time. We have the different pee pads which we switch out regularly.
He has always had hotspots throughout his entire life. They just seem to be more irritated and bloody even though we haven’t seen him lick them like he used to.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 30, 2021 13:44:24 GMT -7
I think even with memory foam and frequent rotation pressure sores can sometimes happen. Treating with antibiotics before an infection sets in is definitely the way to go.
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Post by Nina & Bubba on Apr 30, 2021 21:26:05 GMT -7
Hi all,
So our vet prescribed ✙Amoxicillin 500mg 2x a day for five days for the hotspots and bleeding. I will give it to him shortly with some food.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
100 lbs 10 y.o Rottie
Rimadyl as of 4/29: 100mgs 1x/day for 1 day
4/21 no double stomach protection Pepcid + sucralfate for switch to pred
prednisone as of 4/21: 20mgs 2x/day for 2 days, 4/23 test taper for: _pain / _neuro; final taper dose TBA
Pepcid AC 10mgs 1x/day ]
Our vet is concerned because of the bloody nose and said we can come in to see Internal Medicine for more testing. He says we may need to be looking at much bigger picture now essentially screen for cancer, medical work up which would be separate to the MRI scan for the spine. He is worried this is might be a blood clotting disorder linked possibly to cancer.
We all agree that even if we do these tests, there is no guarantee they will even find what is wrong and also if there will even be treatment available especially if it ends up being cancer. We are still going to go the conservative route as this still could possibly be a disc injury.
Luckily the bloody nose has ceased. I also wrapped his elbows with the gauze and medical tape you suggested and he hasn’t been spotting or leaking everywhere! Yay!
We are hoping this is not a blood clotting disorder/cancer and it is just a coincidence or has to do with the medication. He urinated standing up and also pooped laying down outside. We did not see any blood in either. I will keep everyone posted. Thank you all for your helpful messages.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,535
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2021 8:02:40 GMT -7
Nina, glad to hear bloody nose stopped and no blood in poop or urine! Would it be a doable thing to add a memory foam topper which could be placed on top of any one of your different mattresses? Changing positions is, of course, very important. Memory foam alleviates pressure points. You might find it locally in the baby dept of local stores, big box store or on-line? I'm not sure how large Bubba's bed is. Do know the foam could be cut in half with scissors or a knife if needed — yielding two toppers. Here is what they look like/dimensions: www.amazon.com/s?k=memory+foam+crib+topper&i=baby-products&ref=nb_sb_noss_2Let us know if prednisone has now stopped with the final taper dose on 4/30. Pepcid stopped too? You are doing a good job in caring for Bubba with challenging circumstances. Bubba's got a good mom! |
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Post by Nina & Bubba on May 1, 2021 18:59:56 GMT -7
Hi all,
Thank you so much for all of your suggestions and help. The nose bleed subsided last night but when we rinsed him this morning we noticed his hotspots were bleeding and his blood seemed thinner and it would not stop unless we wrapped the wounds. He also is more lethargic and he is still on the same dose of prednisone (10 mg once a day).
It looks like our vet is right and this may be linked more to a blood disorder/coagulopathy. I don’t want to waste anyone’s time here and all of you have been so helpful. Our vet said we can come in and run more tests but agreed the investment on further diagnostics might offer some answers but with little consolation.
I asked our vet if there are any other steroids we could try to give him a little more energy while we make arrangements for the inevitable but he said all the other steroids cause gastric issues.
Praying for a miracle. Thanks again for your help. Your suggestions and quick replies helped us during this difficult time.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,535
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Post by PaulaM on May 1, 2021 20:47:05 GMT -7
Oh, dear Nina, I'm so sorry to hear this about your precious Bubba.
You've not wasted our time. Anything we can do to assist you in home care we are glad to do. The only disease we know about, though, is IVDD. So we would not feel comfortable to comment on other diseases.
Hope that miracle comes. We will be thinking of you both and praying for good news.
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Post by Nina & Bubba on May 5, 2021 19:17:15 GMT -7
Hi all,
I wanted to update everyone. Bubba ended up passing in his sleep on Sunday night. We do not believe this was IVDD. His body just couldn’t keep up anymore.
Thank you all for your help and guidance during this difficult time for us. We appreciate all the support and wish you all the best of luck with your fur babies.
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Post by Cindy & Charli on May 5, 2021 20:38:32 GMT -7
Dear Nina -
Your Bubba was a beautiful boy - and obviously very lucky to be so loved.
My heart breaks for you in your loss.
Sending hugs, thoughts and prayers.
Dogs give us all of the best days...and one of the worst.
My heart goes out to you and your family in this difficult time.
-Cindy
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Post by Julie & Perry on May 6, 2021 1:37:35 GMT -7
Nina, you did everything that you could for Bubba and obviously loved him very much.
Hold his love and happy memories close and know that he will always be with you.
Hugs to you as you grieve his loss.
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Post by Stephanie on May 6, 2021 7:08:44 GMT -7
Oh no, I'm so sorry Nina to read about Bubba's passing. He will always be alive in your heart.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,535
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Post by PaulaM on May 6, 2021 7:36:38 GMT -7
Oh dear Nina, I'm so sorry that your handsome Bubba had to leave. The pain of losing a loved one is great and deserves your attention and time to process. Maybe what Carmen, one of our members, has written about the grieving process will help you, too. dodgerslist.com/2020/07/28/tears-heal-grief/As you continue life’s journey you will come to see all the gifts Bubba left for you. All the wonderful days of happiness, all the doors of opportunity opened for you to meet people, all the quiet peaceful times you spent together. May you find Bubba soon bringing you smiles again, as you think back on all the funny antics and all the years of joy. Warmest of ((hugs)) and my sincere condolences to you and your family. |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 6, 2021 13:06:16 GMT -7
I am so sorry to hear of your loss of sweet Bubba. It is clear from your posts how dearly he was loved.
My deepest sympathies to you and your family
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Post by Jessica on May 7, 2021 9:41:33 GMT -7
I'm so very sorry, Nina. I send you and your family all my best wishes as you go through this difficult time.
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