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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 12, 2021 9:35:01 GMT -7
[Original subject line:Tango is back with another bad IVDD attack ] Last time Tango was here was 2018, Sunday he had an allergic reaction to something and his throat started to swell, I ran him to the emergency vet clinic in town. They were doing only curb [3/7] side protocol, so besides the report of what they say they did I have NO idea how they handled him, I made it CLEAR he has IVDD. I just didn’t have a good feeling about this place (only thing open within 4 hour drive) and when your dogs throat is swelling and he’s breathing hard u gotta go for help now. Tango also has Dilated cardio myopathy, in fact since last he was here we lost his littermate Yoshi from this, in October, he and I both are still mourning Yoshi. Tango had never been away from Yoshi in his life, they were littermates and Yoshi even though the smaller one was the pack leader, so now Tango looks to me . I’ve been sleeping in the living room on the couch next to his hospital crate. Right now we are back on gabapentin 50 mg x twice a day, metronidazole 125mg x 2 a dat, methocarbamol 125 mg every 8 hours, novox 12.5 x2 day, and famotidine 10 mg X 2 day. Plus still on 12.5 Benadryl severe 8 hours for the allergic reaction. ( the metronidazole , Flagle, given because he had raging diarrhea with the original allergic type reaction) my vet did extensive blood work and X-rays, everything looks good nothing elevated . So the original problem is a complete mystery. [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
16 lbs
Novox as of 3/12: 12.5 mgs 2x/day
gabapentin 50 mgs 2x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
metronidazole 125mgs 2x/day
benadryl 12.5 mgs 3x/day
famotidine 10mgs 2x/day] A clawless cat whapped him in the nose last Sat, I am wondering HAS ANYONE EVER HAD THROAT SWELLING WITH A IVDD INCIDENT?  ? He ate Sat night, but that was the last time I got a solid meal down him until I saw my vet Tues morn. I could on,y get him to lick baby food from my finger and get water in him thru a 5cc syringe. My. Vet also put him on entice Tues and he actually went back to Eating. Sleeps all day and night . I’m waiting on back surgery so We are a mess!!!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 12, 2021 10:22:25 GMT -7
Katie, so very sorry to hear about the loss of your Yoshi.
Could you speak to the the symptoms Tango has regarding a current disc episode diagnosis that requires surgery?
Is there neuro diminishment in front legs? In back legs? Explain what you observe.
---- has lost the ability to move front limb? Can move back limbs.
--- Paws knuckle under. Can either right them or can't at all
--- can walk but it is wobbly
Is pain fully controlled round the clock dose to dose with two pain meds (methocarbamol and gabapentin)?
--- can't bear weight on a front limb because it hurts
--- only looks with eyes, hurts to turn head
--- holds head in a high or low position
How much does Tango weigh?
IVDD is a disease of prematurely aging discs. When a disc reaches that stage, we may or may not see an action of too much movement and associate that was the last straw to cause the inflexible disc to tear.
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 12, 2021 11:35:08 GMT -7
I am the one waiting back surgery, not Tango...
he is painful when moving neck, back. Was shivering from pain, will not lift leg to pee, very hunched back hen we sit him down to go pee, wobbly on back legs for the couple steps we allow him to take to go poop or pee. Is able to lift neck a little to drink, and eat.
tango is now 9 years old and weighs 16 lbs
yes he can walk, is wobbly in back end, but he dose t want to walk, feet are all forward a d in good placement, his back knees will turn in when he walks. Back is hunched up , and he prefers to lay on his side in his crate. It is painful if he sets up with legs in front to get food or treat, but once he gets into that position he is fine.
head is in a lower position although not pointing down, just does not extend neck. Since I put him in the recovery crate Tues the 10 of March, he has not stood up or sat up. We use blanket under him to slide out so we can support back while picking him up to go to the bathroom
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 12, 2021 14:31:14 GMT -7
Katie, when is your own surgery scheduled for? Who will care for Tango? Tango is is in pain simply because he is being undereducated for a neck disc episode. It is very difficult to properly care for a dog whose pain has not yet been brought into full control, round the clock. Call in the ER place that saw Tango 3/7. Or has your own vet seen Tango for this episode? The point is to be able to call in so you avoid a risky to the disc transport. Vets who know IVDD can adjust meds over the the phone. The ER place has Tango's records, meaning another vet on duty can access the file and also Rx meds. Report all signs of pain you are seeing when Tangle has to move, nearing next dose of pain meds, etc.
Resolution of spinal cord inflammation/swelling provides the relief from pain. It can take a non-steriodal NSAID anti-inflammatory (Novox) a range of 7 to 30 days before all swelling is gone.
The best pain medications control is using more than one approach to address pain from multiple fronts (tramadol-general analgesic, methocarbamol- muscle spasm pain, gabapentin-nerve pain). All three pain meds need to be prescribed three times a day (promptly every 8 hrs.).
SIGNS OF PAIN to report: ⚙︎ shivering-trembling ⚙︎ yelping when picked up or moved ⚙︎ tight tense tummy ⚙︎ arched back, ears pinned bac ⚙︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ⚙︎ slow or reluctant to move in suite such as shift positions ⚙︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves ➕if a neck disc: ◻︎ head held high/ nose to the ground ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg up flamingo style not wanting to bear weight Other diseases Tango has may have to be taken into consideration Find out the reason why a med is not being Rx'd so you have an understanding of things. So in general advocate for: 1) Tramadol as the general analgesic. Promptly every 8 hrs. Look for a 50 mgs tramadol dose every 8 hrs to be Rx'd. 2) Gabapentin - advocate for an every 8 hrs dose. 3) methocarbamol is the typical dose and times per day 4) Novox (carprofen) NSAID to work on swelling. For how many days was this Rx'd for?5) Have the wobbly back legs increased since 3/7? Then that would need to be reported asap today and get this attendeed to! It may be prudent to switch to the more powerful anti-inflammatory the steroid (prednsione). Having two stomach protectors on board (both famotidine PLUS sucralfate) made an immediate switch possible without the usual 4-7 days of washout from Novox before the start of pred.
-- Learn about the NSAID Novox. An informed owner is a dog's best defense when taking an anti-inflammatory. What your job is, how to arrange for a Plan B with your vet should pain surface during the test stop of Novox. -- Be informed on each med your dog takes: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pml Please keep us posted on what the vet Rx's so we know Tango is not being left to suffer with needless pain. Thanks!
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 12, 2021 20:02:18 GMT -7
My husband lifts and carries Tango outside, my surgery hasn’t been scheduled yet and it’s just a outpatient.
my Vet has seen Tango, he is the one who diagnosed him with IVDD in 2018 he is very well educated in treating this. Tango also has DCM, predizone is out of the picture because of his heart condition, and tramadol isn’t advised as long as he is comfortable in his recovery pen. Dr Mallard, my personal bet will dispense meds over phone for me. He is totally on board for not moving Tango anymore than necessary. We saw him Tues.
I wouldn’t go back to the emergency clinic for anything, I think they shook or dropped Tango, he has hand print bruises under his legs and belly. They may be responsible for this episode. He had been perfectly fine since 2018 until the night of the allergic attack when I took him to the emergency clinic.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 13, 2021 8:05:08 GMT -7
Hi, Katie. I'm so sorry that you had such an unpleasant experience with the ER. There are several things that you should do to help Tango's neck heal, such as softening hard kibble, raising food/water dishes so he doesn't need to bend his head. More info here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tips/I do hope that Tango is resting comfortably. Pain does hinder healing so have no patience with it. As Paula mentioned, Gabapentin has a short half life and works best when given 3x/day. Tramadol works well with Gabapentin. Healing prayers for Tango. And prayers that your surgery goes well. |
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 13, 2021 10:12:59 GMT -7
Thank you, he is so much better today, yesterday was his first full day on the back drugs [3/12]. This morn he stood up in his recovery crate so it was easy to lift him correctly to go out to pee this morn. Even lifting his head today with no pain. 7 weeks 4 days left to go.
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Post by Katie & Tango on Mar 29, 2021 16:02:26 GMT -7
Update on Tango he DID NOT HAVE ANOTHER IVDD, something attacked his immune system, his red blood cells went down way to low, his platelets were practically nonexistent. His back weakness was caused by the anemia,. He was in pain from a swelling that started under his jaw and then went into his throat and chest. He ran an extremely high fever for 10 days. We’ve been to MU vet collage and 3 diff. Vets.
He is strong well eating and appears over what ever it was. I thought I was going to loose him,
No one really knows what caused all of this but Dicyclomine love and lots of home made foods have him back up.
Had a CBC again today and all blood work is NORMAL
EVERYONE needs to advocate for their dog, do not take one vets diagnosis make u not question why other things are going wrong.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,534
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 29, 2021 18:09:22 GMT -7
Katie, so very glad to hear Tango overcame the immune system thing!!!! And good for you for pursuing til you found the right diagnosis. Thank goodness!
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? He ate Sat night, but that was the last time I got a solid meal down him until I saw my vet Tues morn. I could on,y get him to lick baby food from my finger and get water in him thru a 5cc syringe. 
