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Post by Nicole Menzel on Jan 14, 2021 17:13:59 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Second Episode, Different Concerns]
1 currently pain? YES reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow, ginger movements
YES shivering, trembling
SOMETIMES yelping when picked up or moved
NO tight tense tummy
YES can’t find a comfortable position, appears restless
YES Arched back
YES, HIGH head held high or nose to the ground
NO Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight
YES Not their normal perky selves?
☆ 2 42#
Gabapentin: 300mg 2x/daily (every 12 hours)
Methocarbamol: 250mg 3x/daily (every 8 hours)
Carprofen: 37.5mg 2x/daily (every 12 hours) date of a NSAID stop? after 10 days (started 01/13/2021)
PEPCID AC: haven't started yet, but will tonight
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
42lbs
Carprofen as of 1/13: 37.5mg 2x/daily for 10 days, then 1/23 stop test for _pain/_neuro
gabapentin 300mgs 2x/day
methocarbamol 250mbs 3x/day
Pepcid AC as of 1/14: 10mgs ?x/day]
☆ 3 -- Eating and drinking OK? Eating some, drinking very little, no vomit/nausea
Poop- didn't poop or pee for 24+ hours, went to vet on 01/14/2021 and pooped/peed there @12:30pm, then pooped during laser treatment, and pooped on me while carrying outside to go to the bathroom 01/14/2021 @ 5:30pm
☆ 4 Kai is a mixed breed rescue dog (DNA test said American Pitbull Terrier, Chow Chow, Chihuahua, Poodle, German Shepherd, Staffordshire Terrier)... I, Nicole, am his owner.
☆ 5 Did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: Yes, diagnosed in February 2019 during first episode, confirmed second episode by general DVM 01/13/2021.
☆ 6 What was the date you saw the vet for CONSERVATIVE treatment?
01/14/2021 (but picked up and started meds 01/13/2021)
☆ 7 He can pee and poop on his own, but has been stubborn about going. The vet said the disc affected this time is pressed when in the "squat" position, so it hurts him to do so.
☆ 8 Currently wobbly walking, not dragging back feet, tips over in snow, does wag tail
During Kai's first episode, after we figured out what was going on, I don't remember him being this stressed/in as much pain (he lost function in legs during first episode in 2019). He is struggling to relax, continues to pant with his head held high, and is quite shaky. He is an anxious dog, so is predisposed to being easily stressed. The vet added in muscle relaxers today (01/14/2021) along with the first of four laser treatments. He felt better after the laser treatment, but wagged his tail too hard and yelped (then back to pain). Looking for any extra tips on keeping him comfortable (and keeping me sane) this time around. I thought I was prepared for this to happen again, but I'm feeling anything but at the moment!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 14, 2021 18:02:29 GMT -7
Welcome Nichole! Unusual holding of head typically confirms a neck disk episode. Where did the vet say the disc was in the neck or the back? Neck discs are just a more painful thing. All pain meds stay in the body about 8 hours. So an Rx for every 12 hours (2x/day) is not cutting it in keeping pain away. ADVOCATE on the phone for gabapentin to be every 8 hrs (3x/day). Advocate for a general analgesic TRAMADOL also every 8 hrs. It often takes a 3-way combo of pain meds to address each of the three sources of pain. Not eating and drinking can also be due to GI tract damage from the carprofen. Very glad you are getting Pepcid AC start tonight. Keep the vet in the loop next time you speak. Are you giving 20 mgs Pepcid AC (famotdine) 2x/day? (0.44mg famotidine X dog's weight. Given every 12 hours.) Extra things you can do to help with a neck disc and it won't hurt even if it is a back disc: Help the neck heal by softening hard kibble, raising food/water dishes, etc. Even more info here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/cervical-care-tips/BOOKMARK: No need to reinvent the wheel with at home nursing care during a disc episode: dodgerslist.com/nursing-care-during-the-disc-episode covering: ◽️Lots of member tips for things to gather up from around your home. ◽️Useful supplies in setting up the recovery suite ◽️Review on bladder expressing if Kai is leaking on you when lifted or pooping on you. ◽️ Cervical (neck) disc care and more. EMAIL ALERTS Please enable receiving email alerts when someone has posted. Timely interaction/communications is needed when helping your dog. How to set up: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread
REGISTER
The guest board is a temporary Guest courtesy to get immediate help until you can register.
I encourage you to register and login. That way all the features of the Forum are available to you, making it faster to reply and get an email alert about replies. It also makes is far easier for us to track your dog and give the best assistance.
How-to here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread
Will be watching for your next post to learn that Kai is out of pain and resting comfortably in his suite. |
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Post by Nichole & Kai on Jan 14, 2021 20:46:48 GMT -7
Thanks so much for such a speedy reply! The vet thinks it’s a disc in his middle back because of his unwillingness to squat/go potty even though he can walk... although he started ✙knuckling [1/15] tonight, so he might be losing mobility. I was just giving him one Pepcid (10mg) as the bottle said no more than 2 pills per 24 hours for humans. Should I up that? I will call tomorrow and advocate for some med changes! We just went with what worked last time, but that clearly isn’t working this time. I will keep you updated on his pain level and if I have any further questions. This community is a life saver... and helps significantly with my peace of mind. Thanks again!
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 15, 2021 6:31:24 GMT -7
With a dog of Kai's weight, he should be given 20mg of Pepcid AC 2x/day. Give him 20mg 30 minutes before you give Carprofen and then every 12 hours thereafter for as long as he's on Carprofen. Be sure you let the vet know that you're giving Pepcid AC when you speak to them this morning. Also be sure to let the vet know that Kai is now knuckling. A worsening of condition is of concern. Be sure to keep the crate rest very, very strict. Are you able to carry him in and out to potty? He should not be walking out to potty. If you're unable to carry Kai, you'll need to think outside of the box as to how to limit his steps. Movement is what disrupts the scar tissue trying to form. If the disc tears then very likely neuro functions will worsen as the disc pressures the spinal cord. So your focus during the 8 weeks of restricted movement is to do everything possible to limit movement of the back to avoid loss of leg and bladder function, to avoid a surgery. The restricted area should be only enough to stand up, turn around and when lying down fully stretch out the legs. If he'll go on a pee pad inside, that might be helpful as you could just place the pee pad right outside of the crate door. Train to use a pee pad by putting dirt with Kai's or another dog's urine on it. Always save a used piece of pee pad in a ziplock bag to use at potty time. Kai can learn it is ok with you to pee on the pee pad, be sure to use the command go potty and when he does give lavish praise. Caster wheels can be purchased and put on wire crates so the crate can be wheeled outside. Keep the recovery suite by the exit door. Make a ramp over steps. Transport involves the risk of too much movement of the spine. See if you can find a vet or vet tech who could come to your home to administer laser treatments. The benefits of a treatment must be weighed against the risk of transport. It's more important to limit movement of the spine and avoid transport. You're already doing what's best for Kai with the 24/7 strict crate rest for a full 8 weeks. There may have been too much movement of the spine which has caused a worsening of his neuro condition. If you are able to get Kai safely outside to a potty spot by carrying him or in a wheeled crate down a ramp, be sure to use to sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) to avoid his tipping over. Stand in one spot to limit his steps, use a halter and a 6' leash.  Please let us know what the vet says after speaking to him this morning. Healing prayers for Kai.
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