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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Dec 24, 2020 9:56:17 GMT -7
Kaia ivdd Hi my name is Terrina Aebly my dogs name is Kaia her first vet vet visit was December 18 with lethargic and wobbly gait still had stool continence. Sent home with azium oral steroid, after a weekend of rest dog became much worse lost ability to walk and hold her self up with her back legs
second vet visit December 21 She was left at veterinary clinic to start steroid IV till [12/23]Wednesday, [Wed]December 23 at that time we picked her up and took her to Iowa State University Eugene and Linda Lloyd veterinary medical center to have surgery for IVDD upon arrival and after initial examination Kia was unable to walk and had no deep pain stimulus. [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 10lbs
Name of steroid IV as of 12/21: for 2 days, Azium (dex as of 12/18: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, 12/21 back legs pararalyed as of 12/24 5mgs 1x/day for 2 days, then 12/26 4 days of EOD taper Name of NSAID? Date to start? dose in mgs and ?x/day, gabapentin ?mg ?x/day needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/any anti-inflammatory such as Azium, or other steroid! ]Prognosis was that since she had more than 24 hours of no deep pain stimuli that the surgery had a 10% or less chance of success at that time my husband and I decided to bring her back home and try a more conservative approach. Kaia is a 10 pound miniature Doxie currently on our last three days of steroid draw down before starting nsaids and taking gabapentin for pain she doesn’t seem to be in much pain and is eating and drinking well as of December 24 complete loss of usage of rear legs and no stool continence any help or advice would be appreciated thanks
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 24, 2020 11:15:31 GMT -7
Welcome Aebly! So glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you. ❖4 Please give us an understanding that you're are now PLUS have been on the same page about the SINGLE most important care of strict crate rest since 12/18. STRICT means: ◼︎No laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎No chiro therapy whys: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/ ◼︎No dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎No PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎If wanting laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage. at-home therapy is the best option over risky to the disc travel to a vet office. ◼︎ Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit. Handle things with phone updates, to get meds adjusted, etc. ◼︎ Avoid dangerous detours. Follow the "Roadmap." Tape it to your fridge. D/L and print out from here: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf It will help us work together with you and avoid offering ideas that could cause harm or lead the discussion in the wrong direction delaying help for your dog, if you would fill us in a bit more. QUESTIONS❖1 Is there still currently pain? Not "much" pain is not good enough! Should be all pain is fully control dose to dose of gabapentin. Otherwise the vet needs to adjust the pain meds today over the phone. Which signs of pain are you current observing?◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves If the pain meds are not yet right, as the eyes and ears for your vet, please call your vet ASAP to report your observations so meds can be adjusted. Advocate for any of the pain meds be given 3x/day (every 8 hours) for round the clock coverage, dose to dose coverage. — Methocarbamol works on the pain of muscle spasms. — Tramadol is the general pain reliever. — Gabapentin works on nerve pain. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. Understanding the roll each kind of pain med plays in providing full comfort, will aid you best in advocating for what your dog needs. Good overview here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/30/pain-medicationsNeuropathic pain is not common but you should be aware of it. This kind of pain is abnormal, phantom pain sensations with severe spinal cord damage. Signs are obsessive licking of paw, leg, genitals, tail. Escalates to biting, life-threatening chewing off parts. Immediately put on an e-collar (or lengthwise folded towel around neck and duct taped closed) to prevent access to lower body. Contact vet immediately for Gabapentin or stronger Lyrica (pregabalin) for neuropathic pain. More info: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/10/neuropathy/❖2 MED LIST Please fill us in on the missing details from Kaia's med list 1) Azium (dexamethasone) as of 12/18: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, then a reduction
2) name of steroid IV as of 12/23: for 3 days, then 12/24 tapering to doses of ?mgs ?x/day
3) name of NSAID? Date to start? dose in mgs and ?x/day, date to stop? NOTE stomach safety requires 4-7 days of washout from steroid before start of any NSAID. There is a safe way to switch w/o a washout, but you have not mentioned any of those meds. We are VERY concerned.
4) gabapentin ?mg ?x/day
5) needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/any anti-inflammatory such as Azium, or other steroid!
… C PEPCID AC: Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health issues” answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).** Pepcid AC box 10mgs famotidine in one tablet: NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html❖5 What were the credential of the vet saying no deep pain sensation? - a general DVM vet? or..... - a neuro DVM, ACVIM or ortho, DVM, ACVS vet? Did you get a lesson on expressing the bladder and expressing for poop at ISU ? Poop expression is easily learned w/o a lesson it is so simple.
Bladder expression is a health must to do if your dog can no longer can sniff an old pee spot and then make the decision to release urine. Expressing is to prevent urinary bladder infection (UTI) moving up to the kidneys, a serious situation. Please clarify if Kaila has bladder control. If not have you been expressing her bladder every 2-3 hrs to keep her dry as you learn this new skill? -- Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted which are indication of an overflowing bladder and loss of bladder control? -- Overflowing bladders need to be expressed to avoid UTIs. Review the video then get a hands-on-top-of-your-hands expressing lesson or a 2nd lesson at your local vet if you need to still perfect this new skill. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/❖6 Currently can your dog move the legs at all? Wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? ❖7 Setting up a “recovery suite” with room service! * Ideas to deliver effective STRICT rest recovery during Conservative Medical treatment. Recovery suite tips, how to set up the suite and more: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/ The very STRICT rest part of conservative treatment is key to avoiding a disc relapse and potential for possibility of permanent severe nerve damage. It is far easier to meet your dog's care needs if you understand things. Learn and scoop up all the good tips and ideas for doing conservative treatment here: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/healing-discs BE WELL ARMED Good tools, your own knowledge and know how, can really make all the difference for your dog's outcome! Know the 4 phases of healing (pain, disc, inflamamation and nerves). How long each takes to achieve, what meds are used with each. Read ALL FOUR articles listed here to be the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog will rely on: dodgerslist.com/category/healing-phasesOur main goal is to help you become educated about IVDD so you can better work with the vet you’ve hired, protect your dog and give proper care during this episode, but also to be able to live many happy years ahead with the disease your Kaia was born with. Very much looking forward to your answers so we know best how to help.
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Dec 24, 2020 16:27:08 GMT -7
As far as pain goes she doesn’t seem to be suffering from any discomfort at all is sleeping a lot at this time when I expel her bladder her tail wags somewhat don’t know if that is a reflex action🤷🏼♀️
Azium tabs are 5mg [owner corrected to 0.5mg tab] 1 tablet every day for two days and one tablet every other day for four days that is all that’s left starting 12/24 we have peptid [sp?] don’t know the name of steroid or IV as paperwork is forthcoming don’t have nsaid Rx yet - the gabapentin is50 mg every 8-12hrs have 48 pills left.
Nathan Eslick dvm from Clinton IA was kaias original and referring vet Solari Francesca [intern] did the exam at veterinary medical center at Ames Iowa she has been deep pain negative since Tuesday dec 22 diagnosis was t3-L3 myelopathy she cannot move her legs at all no tail wagging except for as mentioned earlier.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 10lbs Name of steroid IV as of 12/21: for 2 days, Azium (dex) as of 12/18: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, 12/21 helps back legs paralyzed as of 12/24: 0.5mgs 1x/day for 2 days, EOD for 4 days NSAID Date to start? TBA: dose in mgs and ?x/day, gabapentin 50mg 2x/day peptid (SP!) should be Pepcid AC (famotidine) ]
Being new at this we are gathering things for a recovery suite and anything else we may need at this time of course it Has to be over the holidays makes it harder
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 24, 2020 17:32:50 GMT -7
Terrina, during expressing of the bladder, any tail, leg movements are likley to be reflex. To determine if tail, leg movements are brain directed, there needs to be observation of head level involvement when the tail or leg moves. --- Sniff (head level nose) then release of urine would be brain directed. --- Hear (head level ear) you doing some happy talk and then tail wags is brain directed. --- Itchy sensation at at neck and then tries to scratch would be purposeful movement. Tickling paws, etc can cause reflex leg movements. Let us know if you have observed any of the above tail or leg movements.The reason to give a steroid is to get the painful spinal cord swelling gone. Steroids will not aid in the body self healing damaged nerves. NSAIDs also will not heal nerves. SO..... It may be at this point with an IV and steorid tablets given after the relapse to the disc on Mon Dec 21, that all swelling might be actually gone. No one can know UNLESS a true test for pain taper is employed with stop or backing off gabapentin which masks pain ---12/21 IV steroid for 2 days
-- as of 12/23 Azium (dex) 5mgs for 2 days Call your vet about either stopping gabapentin or backing it off in mgs or how often given when Azium goes to every other day taper on 12/26. The pain med gabapentin blindfolds you to finding out if there actually is still painful swelling or if it is all gone now. No one wants a dog on a NSAID nor a steroid if all the work of ridding the body of painful spinal cord inflammation would be gone. Rule of thumb is pain on the taper = cord swelling still exists = back up at anti-inflammatory Azium dose, gabapentin and Pepcid AC
no pain on the taper= all cord swelling resolved = finish the Azium taper. Then no meds at all are needed
The body will self heal leg nerve damage by it self on it's own time schedule
🍫The full details on how steroids like Azium, an anti-inflammatory, works with a disc episode. Good reading to be able to ask the right questions and discuss treatment: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/Can you post a picture of the Azium bottle label? 5mgs of Azium is VERY, VERY high for a 10lb dog! We want to see the vet's Rx (if you are to give a portion of a 5mgs tablet or actually to give the entire 5mgs tablet once a day.) Can you make sure of the exact name/spelling of the "Peptid" product. How many mgs do you give and how often. Make sure it only has one active ingredient listed on the bottle/box: famotidine) Which do you actually give gabapentin 50 mgs every 8 or 12 hrs? Can you tell us if you had been doing True 100% very STRICT rest for Kaia after the Dec 18 vet visit? Trying to understand a possible reason for the relapse to her disc that caused back leg paralysis/loss of bladder control on Dec 21.Does Kaia stay dry til the next time you express her bladder? That is you do not find any urine leaks in her bedding? How often do you express her every 2-3 hrs or ???? Hang in there. I know you are doing your best to make sure Kaia has the optimal chance to heal her disc and with time to see how she heals her back legs and bladder control. You are right, having the holiday at this point in time makes things more of a challenge in communicating with vets, etc. During the short 8 weeks of STRICT rest it takes to heal the disc, you may or may not see nerve healing take place. Self healing of nerves is one of the slowest part of the body to be able to heal. Think more in terms of it may take months rather than days/weeks to see what Kaia can do. Do stay in touch, as we are very interested in learning how Kaia progresses and improves in all 4 of the phases of healing during a disc episode.
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Dec 25, 2020 9:24:33 GMT -7
Sorry the azium dose is .5mg
after first vet visit we were told to restrict her movement don’t let her run jump and could take her outside to go to the bathroom although we did just leave her go to the bathroom outside on her own after which her walking got progressively worse.
We realize our lack of knowledge from the onset of this hurt Kaia. She gets gabapentin at 8am and 8pm so every 12hrs her bedding does not stay dry in between releases every 4 hrs I am wondering if using a diaper would work better than pee pads?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 25, 2020 12:49:39 GMT -7
Terrina, it is the vet's job to convey just how STRICT rest is to be ("THE" single most import part of care needed during a disc episode). Failure to instruct you would fall on the vet for Kaia's loss of nerve function unless you were instructed but ignored an Rx for STRICT rest. It is valuable to know the credentials of a vet. DVM vs. a specialist (ACVIM or ACVS) maybe, might tell you if they know IVDD, know about conservative treatment. That means it will be on you to read and gain as much info on the disease Kaia was born. Knowledge will allow you to identify when any veterinary person is not comfortable in their IVDD knowledge. They may offer well-intentioned but harmful advice for Kaia which your IVDD knowledge would tell you to politely say no thank you. Are you ready to take on this task for the love of Kaia? You will be very amazed how quickly you can learn a lot about just one disease. Follow the menu items, use the orange search bar at the Main Dodgerslist website
You are learning a new skill (expressing the bladder). It can take a weeks worth of expressing before the lightbulb comes on as how to feel for the bladder, where the bladder goes as it empties. And finally how flat it feels when you've voided the urine. Start with expressing every 2-3 hrs. As your skill improves you can move to every 3-4 hrs. Eventually you will be able to express every 6-8 hrs and Kaia stays dry. Don't hesitate to go back and get another expressing lesson. Always re-review the video first so you can get more out of another hands-on-top-of-your-hands type of expressing lesson: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/ When reflexes kick in to release urine that is a BAD thing! That bad thing is called overflowing bladder. Bad for two reasons --- The bladder must be overstretch in order for reflex to kick in. Constant over stretching of the bladder could ruin the bladder tone where the bladder can't function properly when nerve repair fixes the brain to bladder connection. --- Urine that remains in the bladder after overflowing can quickly breed bacteria for a urinary tract infection (UTI). A urinalysis at the vet can determine if there is infection and a need for an antibiotic. --- Not all UTIs will show signs you can see...some do and some don't show: foul odor, change in color, red blood in urine. UTIs not treated can move up to the kidneys, a very serious health issue. Diapers have their own health issues. The healthiest thing to do is improve your expressing proficiency as quickly as possible. Get another expressing lesson if you need it. Let us know how staying dry goes, when you move to every 2-3 hours expressing. Have you noticed any foul smell to the urine? Have you been expressing for poop?
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Dec 25, 2020 13:56:17 GMT -7
I think that her urine has had a very dark yellow color since we brought her home Thursday morning from UOI. But not as bad today, but still has a strong urine smell. When I was expelling her today at 2:30 she turned her head as to let me know it was hurting her and to stop, I am worried I may be pushing to hard and rupturing her bladder. Is there a way to know if this is happening? She has had an involuntary bowel movement 2 times since coming home. I have not got her to poop by helping expel it tho
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Dec 25, 2020 15:11:29 GMT -7
A dark color and strong smell could indicate a UTI. UTIs are fairly common with dogs that need to be expressed despite our best efforts. You will not rupture her bladder, so you do not need to be concerned about that but a UTI may make it painful for her to be expressed.
Consider getting a urinalysis to rule out the need for anti-biotics. It is usually possible to just bring in a urine sample for the vet to run in the clinic.
Just continue to try expressing for poop. Like expressing for urine, it is a skill and needs to be practiced to be learned. Not expressing for poop is not the health issue that not expressing for urine is. But unexpected poop is messy and upsetting for the dog and the pet parent, so it is a good skill to learn.
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Dec 26, 2020 18:10:23 GMT -7
Have been getting poop expressed ok, she has a red swollen vulva now and is licking all the time, does this mean she has feeling there? Otherwise why would she be licking because it’s sore. She still leeks between expressing. Is this common? Or am I doing something wrong? I got a ✙prescription to put on her vulva 2 times a day, hope it helps..
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 10lbs Name of steroid IV as of 12/21: for 2 days, Azium (dex) as of 12/18: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, 12/21 helps back legs paralyzed as of 12/24: 0.5mgs 1x/day for 2 days, EOD for 4 days Crate rest not started til 12/21 NSAID Date to start? TBA: dose in mgs and ?x/day, gabapentin 50mg 2x/day ✙panalog (Nystatin-Neomycin Sulfate-Thiostrepton-Triamcinolone Acetonide] for ulva, on 12/26 peptid (SP!) should be Pepcid AC (famotidine) ]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 26, 2020 19:27:42 GMT -7
Terrina, we are in the dark about some things. Would you be able to fill us in? Of course we always want to know dates that go with any Rx's for meds. The exact name of meds, too and the doses in mgs where it makes sense. Volunteering information avoids delays of back and forth to ask questions.
Name of ointment, Date prescribed? Had it been prescribed at a earlier date for something (what?) and now you are using it for her swollen vulva? What is the vet's name who Rx'd it?
Are you giving Pepcid AC or Pepcid? how many mgs, how times per day?
Leaking means the bladder is not being emptied often enough and fully. An overflowing bladder means urine remaining is getting out when the bladder is overstretched enough for reflex to release some urine. The urine remaining can quickly become a breeding ground for bacteria.
Dogs have a much more keen sense of smell to detect, something not right with their urine. We hear often, the dog is licking and when a urinalysis has been done, it turns out the dog had a UTI. I believe that is the case with Kaia...she very likely has a UTI that needs prompt attention.
It is important to have a urinalysis done in the vet's office on Monday a.m. Bladder infections can quickly move up into the kidneys where it can become life threatening.
We are anxious to hear from you on the questions asked and what the urinalysis reveals.
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Dec 29, 2020 7:45:54 GMT -7
Was at vet 12/28 with urine sample was negative for infection😊her medication for vulva irritation is panalog [Nystatin-Neomycin Sulfate-Thiostrepton-Triamcinolone Acetonide] (animax) 15 ml twice daily prescribed on 12/26 she hasn’t been licking since 12/27 evening
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Jan 1, 2021 10:51:54 GMT -7
As of December 29, Kaia is on gabapentin 50mg twice a day, ✙trazodone 50mg 1/2 - 1 pill every 8-12 hours, verti disc (vetriscience laboratories) 1 capsule a day, and panalog 15 ml twice a day. She is done with steroids as of December 31. She gets 1/2(25mg) trazodone at 8am, 1 verti disc capsule at 4 pm and then 8 pm we give her 50mg gabapentin and 50mg trazodone.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 10lbs Name of steroid IV as of 12/21: for 2 days, Azium (dex) as of 12/18: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, as of 12/24: 0.5mgs 1x/day for 2 days, EOD for 4 days til 12/31 Crate rest not started til 12/21 NSAID Date to start? TBA: dose in mgs and ?x/day, ✙trazodone 25ngs WHICH? 8 or 12 hrs? gabapentin 50mg 2x/day panalog (Nystatin-Neomycin Sulfate-Thiostrepton-Triamcinolone Acetonide] for ulva, on 12/26 Pepcid AC (famotidine) ] SToPPED?
She seems very comfortable all during the day, but when it’s comes time for bed around 9-10 she gets very restless panting and acts like she wants to go to the main living area( she’s in the bedroom at night).
She is hungry and eating 1/2-3/4 cup of food in the morning then again at 3-4 and if we let her eat when she’s restless in the night then she will calm down and sleep for 2-3 hours. I haven’t been able to exprel [the term is "EXPRESSING"] her bladder for 4 days because she just leaks( or actually pees cause there’s a lot of urine on the pad) all the time. We are constantly changing the pee pad trying to keep her from getting urine scald. She doesn’t really like diapers but will tolerate them during the day but not night.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 1, 2021 11:29:43 GMT -7
Terrina, a bit confused why a pain med gabapentin is still on aboard. Is there going to be a stop of if so you can fully confirm there is not need of any ,anti such as a non-steroidal (NSAID)? At night instead of a third full 1/2-3/4 cup meal, try a lo cal snack of small pieces of apple or carrot, frozen green beens. An broth ice cube to lick on so she has some liquid but not much in a small ice cube. At night try to give the last drink of the night about 8pm if you are going to bed a 10pm. That should give her body time to process the liquid and where you can express her bladder. "Express" is the correct term to use when speaking with a vet or even us here on the Forum....this way we are all on the same page. It is concerning that you are not yet achieving the ability to express the bladder. Expressing means it takes longer for the bladder to refill. Takes longer before the reflexes will allow urine to escape (called overflowing). Overflowing is not good. Bacteria can grow in the urine remaining in the bladder. The bladder can become less functional if bladder muscles loose their tone. Have you been back to the vet for a 2nd hands on top of your hands kind of expressing lesson?
Tell us what you see regarding current neuro functions-- can Kaia do a happy tail wag specifically if you do some happy talk to him? -- do you see any leg movement such as these: attempts to scratch an ear, attempt to reposition in the suite with back legs, attempts to move up into a stand with back legs? It is very good you are changing urine soaked pads frequently, til you are soon able to get help and addition instruction on your expressing skills. HOPe the below tips will be useful to you. HYGIENE Skin- This tip and many other good ones comes including how to set up the mattress system from our supply list at the Main Dodgerslist web site. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/ Use unscented baby wipes for quick clean up on your doxie. Marjorie's tip: Brew up a pot of decafinated green tea. Let it cool, dampen a sponge or cloth with the tea and then gently wipe belly and legs. Tea is mild with acidifying, antibacterial properties to neutralize urine on skin and fur to avoid rashes from urine scald. The teaw eaves a clean earthy fragrance. The remaining tea can then be stored in the refrigerator and warmed before use. BARRIER Creams with no toxic zinc ingredients: Aquaphor Baby or Aquaphor regular Healing Ointment contain same ingredients: Petrolatum (41%) Inactive Ingredients: Mineral Oil, Ceresin, Lanolin Alcohol, Panthenol, Glycerin, Bisabolol aquaphorus.com/categories/ AND Bayer's A+D® Original Ointment Active ingredients: Lanolin 15.5%, Petrolatum 53.4%
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Jan 2, 2021 16:42:32 GMT -7
I have been able to express her bladder since early morning on January 2 finally again, I have seen no signs of trying to scratch her ear or get her back end up to stand or wagging her tail when I talk happy talk, but what I have seen is while I am expressing her bladder she crouches somewhat in a pee position and if I stand her on her back legs she is able to stand for a minute without falling. I am hopeful this is a good sign!
Vet did not tell me to stop any of the meds and has added 25mg ✙vetprofen daily on January 3
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 10lbs Name of steroid IV as of 12/21: for 2 days, Azium (dex) as of 12/18: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, as of 12/24: 0.5mgs 1x/day for 2 days, EOD for 4 days til 12/31 Crate rest not started til 12/21 Vetprofen (carprofen) as of 1/3: 25mgs 1x/day for ? days trazodone 25mgs WHICH? 8 or 12 hrs? gabapentin 50mg 2x/day panalog (Nystatin-Neomycin Sulfate-Thiostrepton-Triamcinolone Acetonide] for ulva, on 12/26 Pepcid AC (famotidine) ] ?mg ?x/day
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 2, 2021 18:23:05 GMT -7
Terrina, did you have conversation with you vet about actually doing a test for pain with the steroid Azium. By that I mean stop the gabapentin to find out if even the non-steroid (NSAID) Vetrprofen ® is actually needed? Steroids and non-steroid (NSAIDs like Vetprofen) do not aid the body in self healing nerve damage. These kinds of anti-inflammatory drugs have the job to get the swelling down. So if pain were to be prooved all gone with the stop of Gabapentin then you could be saving Kaia from the side effects of Vetprofen. Ask your vet what harm is it to stop the gabapentin OR reduce the mgs or give less times a day to see what you can observe about pain BEFORE starting Vetprofen to help with pain. Vetprofen® (carprofen), too, has side effects. Know what signs means to immediately stop this NSAID should you observer. The FDA goes over use of NSAID in a clear manner you will appreciate reading: www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htmWould you fill in the missing info on Kaia's meds so we can follow along: Vetprofen (carprofen) as of 1/3: 25mgs 1x/day for how many days to take?trazodone 25mgs WHICH actually given: every 8 or 12 hrs?Pepcid AC (famotidine) ?mg ?x/day Very pleased, indeed, you have been able to express Kaia's bladder!!! How many times a day are you expressing? And does her bed stay dry til the next time you go to express?Any leg movement during potty times can be due to reflexes. While reflexes have nothing to do with the brain sending a message down to the legs, it is still good. It is good because standing (weight bearing) is good for bone strength. Bending joints (crouching) to pee is keeping those joints moving and flexible.
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Jan 21, 2021 13:05:30 GMT -7
One month update she is staying dry at night and day approximately 80% of the time [staying dry] and is sleeping much better at night. We are moving her rear joints twice daily and she gets a cold laser treatment once daily she is currently done with all daily meds since 1/10/21 although I have given her a gabapentin 25 MG once a day a few days if I felt she was uncomfortable due to us doing therapy. If we stand her up on all fours she can keep her balance for a few minutes and my husband had tears in his eyes after I had her standing when he got home from work on the 18th she was excited and wagging her tail and then again later when our neighbor came with dog treats
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 21, 2021 14:14:31 GMT -7
Wagging her tail in excitement is really excellent news. The ability to give a happy tail wag is the first step in the healing process that can easily be seen by pet parents. It is a sign that the brain can communicate through the spinal cord to other parts of the body and is an indicator that future healing may take place.
Is Kaia able to sniff and pee or are you still expressing her? If she has not been able to sniff and pee, give her frequent opportunities to do so before your regular expressing sessions. Most dogs (but not all) recover in typical stages:
These are the typical stages of healing: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) YES 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. YES 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
If Kaia recovers in this order the next function that would return is bladder control.
How often do you need to give her gabapentin? If you find you need to give it frequently, and you feel it is related to her therapy consider cutting back on it. Not the frequency but the number of minutes you spend on each session. This may make it easier for Kaia
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Feb 12, 2021 17:46:43 GMT -7
Almost too much good news for one post we made a sling for her 2 weeks ago to take her outside so she could walk and sniff she takes off with the sling with her nose to the ground and finds places where she can relieve herself and then her legs bend and she squats to the ground She is now able to pull her self into a standing position on all four legs and move her hind legs to take a steps she can stand out on her own for minutes at a time. I would say at this time the tail wagging is just about normal for any stimuli although her feet have been curled under although her right leg seems as the foot is almost normal position she is taking no medication at this time whatsoever she’s even making an effort to try to scratch her head with her back legs unsuccessfully at it this time we had a wish that she would be taking steps by her 5th birthday on 2/16 our wishes are coming true at this time we are leaving her in her crate when we are gone and are keeping a close eye on her when we are home out of her crate
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 12, 2021 19:18:11 GMT -7
Terrina, graduation day is Feb 15. Sounds like you have shortened the 8 weeks of strict rest that allows the disc to heal down to 6weeks ? ? ? Sorry to hear you've been jumping the gun. But fortunate to hear Kaia dodged a dangerous bullet and did not suffer another relapse to that still healing disc two weeks ago. The idea is to do a very gradual slow introduction to physical activity on graduation day of Feb 15th. There is a schedule of just how slow that intro should be and the reason for it. GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled slow speed. Not free rein of the house and yard immediately!
Lots more ideas and tips for living with an IVDD dog here: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips=
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Feb 13, 2021 18:11:21 GMT -7
Just to clarify she hasn’t had free reign we just used the sling when we took her outside to potty, we are holding up her backside with sling and letting her walk on front legs it’s below zero here so not long excursions when she squatted outside was with sling support. She has been pulling herself up in her crate and taking steps during therapy times out in the last week will her foot control come with time? We’ve taken her table down that we used to clean her up for weeks as she has her bladder and bowel control back. Our prayers have been answered with her attempting to walk as we were lead to believe that her odds were long of that happening
When we are home she has been only out of her crate when sitting next to me or my husband since the 10th we are not sure if we will ever let her have free reign again when we’re gone We are extremely happy and lucky with her progress thanks for being there will keep you posted 😊
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 13, 2021 20:30:31 GMT -7
Thank you for clarifying about the strict rest.
The 8 weeks it takes for the disc to heal with limited movement is the focus of conservative treatment. Nerve healing may or may not come back in that short of time. Your reporting of bladder control back and being able to move up in to a stand position with back legs and take some footsteps is very excellent! IF you scroll back up to Romy's post of Jan 21 you can see just how far Kaia has come on the usual order nerves self repair. Being able to correctly place the paws where they no longer knuckle under will come with time. No one can tell you the date for nerve healing just the typical order neuro function self repairs in.
Tell us about the "therapy" you have been doing.
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Feb 14, 2021 15:16:59 GMT -7
Basically our therapy has been laying her on her side and keeping her range of motion in her joints on each side it was difficult at first as her legs were stiff. We always rubbed her feet to try to keep the circulation moving. The last three weeks we’ve stood her up on all fours and just try to make her balance while we were holding her front shoulders. We spent $ on a cold laser device that she has gotten daily since the beginning of January. Plus prayers and daily cleanup of her as it was trying at times some long nights and lots of love
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 15, 2021 5:52:36 GMT -7
Very glad to hear of the improvements that you've seen, Terrina. Wonderful news. Do keep Kaia's reintroduction to movement very slow to gradually build up her muscles and strength again. Too much movement too soon and it would be difficult to tell whether any pain that may arise is due to another disc problem or sore muscles. Here is a sample schedule to slowly introduce your dog back to family life and physical activity: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/Make some home modifications so that you can reduce the stress on the spine in the future. No more stairs, ramps to slide down from furniture: Ramps: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/867/rampsFurniture blockers, etc.: dodgerslist.com/2020/07/09/home-protect-ivdd-backs/PT THERAPY AT CLINIC or HOME Water therapy: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapyAt home daily massage and range of motion. Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain the muscles with lost nerve connection. Therapy keeps muscles in optimal condition while in wait to receive regenerating axon terminals. After 8 weeks to heal the disc, now safe to begin daily at home PT. Have some fun with your dog with back-friendly-fun activities! dodgerslist.com/2020/06/16/have-fun-nose-work/You will want to consider how you will prevent rug burns from scooting and protecting bacteria from entering the bladder. Females have a very short path into the bladder and the use of a garment give protection against urinary tract infection (UTI). Here are some sew and no-sew options: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/13/garment-skin-uti-protection/We love it when members have a mind to pay forward and help another. We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team in any way that makes you happy. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal.
--- You've been there, and are doing it....if you see another member on the Forum needing support or information share what you know to be true or point them to one of our many IVDD articles. The "search box" on each page makes quick work to find the right helpful link: www.dodgerslist.com/-- "Share" our FB/twitter/ posts to widen the reach of IVDD knowledge www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist twitter.com/DodgersList-- Hand carry our literature and introduce us to your vet. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) to give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you our free packet: dodgerslist.com/free-literature-2-- Check out our dog collar tag shop! Our earnings go to paying for our webpage and literature to hand out. dodgerslist.com/2020/08/08/collar-tag-shop-- Don't forget to add a photo to the gallery and 1-2 sentences. Give inspiration to others just starting a scary IVDD journey. Directions to u/l here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2262/put-dodgerslist-photo-gallery-calendarPlease keep in touch with updates to let us know how Kaia progresses. Prayers for many healthy years ahead for you and Kaia.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 17, 2021 9:01:02 GMT -7
video published to Youtube on behalf of Terrina: A Google account is used to sign in at YouTube (see below if you do not have one)
Upload your video to YouTube.com —At the top of your browser when viewing your uploaded video you will see a "share" button below your video window. — Pressing it will expand to reveal the URL (it starts with <http...> ) you can paste into a Forum post. —How to details for mobile devices and computers: support.google.com/youtube/answer/57407?hl=enHow to get a Google Account: —Use an existing email address —Go to the Google Account creation page: accounts.google.com/signup/v2/webcreateaccount?flowName=GlifWebSignIn&flowEntry=SignUp —Enter your name. —Choose to use 1) current email address OR 2) Create a new Gmall address. —Enter your current email address. —Click Next. —Verify your email address with the code sent to your existing email.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 17, 2021 9:17:21 GMT -7
Happy birthday Kaia! She is looking great in the video above. With time it is very likely you will be seeing more self healing of neuro function. Don't be a stranger. Would LOVE to hear how your active at home PT is going and how Kaia's steadiness in walking and properly placed paws progresses. In addition to the valuable information Marjorie shared above, here are ideas for at-home PT now that Kaia now has the ability to take some footsteps. --- Buy cheap cut of meat or chicken when on sale as really high value treats. Cook, cut into tiny treats and freeze to use as needed each day. --- Do all PT where there are no other distractions of kids or other dogs. --- Do PT slowly so that steps are deliberate: helps to re-train the nerves and muscles to work together in a more normal gait pattern. --- Surface with good traction such as carpet or use of a Yoga mat or rug runners --- reward always for walking and never ever when dragging. --- Do therapy at meal times. Feed dinner a few kibbles at a time, for stands, sits. Scatter some kibbles on a non-slippery floor and use sling if wobbly walking to get her food. --- Reward for pushing up from a sit to a stand. --- Use sticks, broom, pvc pipes spaced out on good traction carpet. Dog then will learn to lift paws as they walk SLOWLY over each one. --- Single leg balance for the weaker leg. While standing, lift the stronger leg off the ground for a few seconds-this will force bearing weight on the weaker leg. Lower and repeat with the opposite side leg. --- Outdoors on leash/harness and if needed a sling. Walk across a gentle slope, walk up and down the slope. Walk on different textures...low grass, higher grass, on sand. ---At home water therapy: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/
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Post by Terrina & Kaia on Mar 4, 2021 16:09:23 GMT -7
hopefully this picture uploaded Kaia is a rambunctious mini dachshund again is gaining strength back that is noticeable weekly now,it’s hard to slow her down sometimes 🤗 Her hind quarters were completely atrophied from being paralyzed for 7 weeks her foot position is near normal and is able to navigate her ramps up and down. Her 3yr old male companion,Diesel who is also a miniature Dachshund and is completely blind is so thankful to have her to follow around again as he missed that aspect when she was down We give both wieners a disc supplement called Verti Disc by Verti science labs an all natural capsule which we sprinkle on their food
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 4, 2021 17:38:49 GMT -7
Terrina, thank you for sharing such a wonderful report about Kaia improved strength as well as nerve healing. So sweet that Diesel has Kaia back in the lead again!
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