Robin's Zizi 11/11 surgery5wks- pekingese-Canada GRAD 12/17

Thank you very much for all this advice and the links, Paula. It has been useful looking through previous surgery reports. This website is a godsend. I will certainly keep you posted.


Update: the neurologist called and Zizi moved her legs a little this morning, as well as peed and ate.  This is one day after surgery and sounds quite hopeful compared with the surgeon last night.  I know that it is a long time until she is out of the woods, but it's a certainly more positive!

Thank you, Romy.  Yes, we have decided to leave her until Tuesday.  Not being able to visit because of covid is so hard!  It is tough to judge anything despite the very kind receptionists sending photos and videos.  So, we are studying the link you sent (thanks!) and other stories on these forums, and just trying to be as well set up as possible. 

Our major worry is how to get her out to potty.  We live in an apartment and normally take her downstairs in her carrier, then walk to a park 100 m away.  When her back started hurting, we took her in the carrier.  But now we are uncertain how we will get her in and out of the carrier if we can't use a leash on a harness to lead her in and out.  When she was in pain, we were unable to pick her up, so this is something we will have to learn, I guess.  (And yes, she is only 9 lbs., but something about getting her up was bothering her and now we are scared.)

What wonderful news that Zizi is doing so well so soon after surgery, Robin! We're so happy for her.

Do speak to the hospital this morning about getting a stomach protector on board ASAP. Dexamethasone is the most powerful anti-inflammatory out there and anytime a dog is on an anti-inflammatory, they should also have stomach protection to prevent the side effects of the anti-inflammatory. Ask if Zizi has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer,then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).
Doxie weight dogs: 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) every 12 hours. NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html

How many mgs is in one ml of Methocarbamol?

Is Zizi's pain completely under control from one dose of pain meds to the next? Signs of pain to be aware of: ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. If not in control your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds.

GI tract problems? --Eating and drinking OK? No nausea/not eating, no vomit? --Poops OK? Normal firmness & color -no dark black or bright red blood indicating bleeding ulcers? No diarrhea?

Post-op crate rest is to allow the surgical sites to heal.  The recovery suite should be only large enough for Zizi to stand up, turn around and lie down with legs comfortably extended.  You can fill in extra space next to her bed with rolled up towels/blankets.  

STRICT for a post-op dog means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm
◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times.
Post-op dogs will follow surgeon's directives for PT during post-op rest as the offending disc material was surgically removed.

Now that you have Zizi home, have you observed that she can in fact specifically sniff and squat and then release urine which is bladder control - OR- do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted which are indication of an overflowing bladder and loss of bladder control?

Using a sling at potty time (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!

I'm so glad that Zizi is now at home with her loving family.  Healing prayers for Zizi.

Yes, if Zizi's able to hold her urine until she goes outside and then sniffs and pees, she has bladder control. So glad to hear that your own observations confirm what the hospital had relayed.

So you'll be giving the Pepcid AC (Famotidine)? Give 5mg 30 min before the Dexamethasone and then every 12 hours thereafter for as long as Zizi is on Dexamethasone, even through the taper when that starts. Please confirm with us when that is on board. And you should let the hospital know, too, that you're giving it.

An ex-pen can make a good potty area to help limit walking. Or push-in-the-ground plastic fencing to make a 6' potty area. Or head her directly to potty spot and stand in one spot with 6' leash.

Please continue to keep us updated. Zizi is doing so well!

I think that for now, it would be best to take her out more frequently. When dogs first regain bladder control, it is often not complete control. Zizi may not yet be able to completely empty her bladder and so needs to go again soon after. She does have some bladder control and so will likely object to being expressed.


It is very early after her surgery so what is happening now is no indicator of what will happen when she is healed.
The pottying schedule she needs now now is unlikely to be the schedule she will need as healing progresses.  You may be able to take her out only three times a day without accidents in the future.

I hope you will be able to pick up the famotidine soon.  Our IVDD dogs have enough to deal with without adding stomach problems to the mix. 

Hi all... Bit of an update. We got on a schedule of taking Zizi out every four hours, which was mostly fine, and she was even able to hold it 7-8 hours overnight. Yesterday she [11/24] had stitches out and physio and then she peed four times over the course of the afternoon! We asked the physio for her opinion and she said to ask our usual vet about UTIs, so we took her today. By the time they saw her, she was bursting to go - I had tried to ask them to get the urine sample pretty soon after we arrived, but they preferred to wait a bit - and when they took her in the back, I could hear her shrieking in pain. Is this normal? Apparently they had her on her side when getting the sample as this was supposed to be better for an IVDD dog than on its back as they would normally do??? They say she shrieked because she was so full that the pressure on the bladder hurt her. At any rate, they'll let us know the results later, but I'm pretty unhappy with the vet.

For physio they had her on an underwater treadmill. The vet tech today said that maybe her increased urination was a result of stress, and they might be right... She has never liked water and in the video they sent, she looks like she's attempting to use her front paws to climb out.

Anyway, she's basically doing fine and the neurologist will see her Friday. Maybe they'll talk about reducing the medication. In the meantime, we're doing the exercises at home, taking her out pretty often to pee using the sling and enjoying seeing her tail almost up over her back. It was just horrible hearing her shriek today. It made me appreciate the surgery because she's not doing that anymore otherwise.

Sorry for the slow reply.  They called the day they took the urine sample and said that they hadn't detected any bacteria, but that they would culture it for longer and check in a couple of days, because the urine was very dilute.  Yesterday they confirmed no infection.  Presumably the four-pee-in-one-afternoon on Wednesday was a fluke (or related to having to do underwater treadmill in the morning).

Yes, I guess that they used a needle to extract the urine.  I just didn't realize that that was how it was normally done.

Yesterday she also had her neurologist follow-up (16 days post-surgery).  The neurologist was pleased with her progress, confirmed that her right back leg is less good than her left, and encouraged us to keep working with the physio, which we will do.

We are to cut down on her medication: we don't give her methocarbamol any more, and in a few days or a week (I am not sure but will email them if they don't email us), we will reduce gabapentin [shortly] to twice per day (still 50 mg each time).  At some point after that, the dexamethasone will be cut down to half doses daily (0.25 mg instead of 0.5 mg) and then stopped.

[9 lbs.
dexamethasone as of 11/17: 0.5mg 1x per day for how many days?? then taper to test for pain
gabapentin 50mg 3x per day to be reduced on date?? to 50 mg 2x/day
methocarbamol 100mgs/mL: 70mg 3x per day- STOPPED
needs stomach protector on board with Dex!]

Just under three more weeks of crate rest!  She's getting a bit restless already, so we've penned off an area just in front of the crate and put a blanket down, and we sit there with her when possible.

Always let the surgeon know of anything given, even natural products.

Try to keep a happy voice and face around your dog. Dogs are very sensitive and pick up on our feelings very easily. Tell her everything's OK and that she's getting better every day. And you believe it, too!

Here are some tips to help calm your dog in the crate. If these do not help, it may be necessary to have the vet prescribe a mild sedative.

To calm your dog in the crate, it would be a good idea to cover the top with a towel. That should mellow her. It also creates a den like feeling that dogs love.

Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price.

Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is.
Dogs: Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/us/Products/ADAPTIL-Calm-Home-Diffuser with dog pheromones

Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below:
1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed
2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine.
3) Bach's Rescue Remedy is a liquid 5-herb combo to help with relaxation (Star of Bethlehem – Orithogalum umbellatum, Rock Rose – Helianthemum, Cherry Plum – Prunus cerasifera, Impatiens – Impatiens gladulifera, Clematis – Clematis vitalba)

Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Preferable is to start teaching what you do want before there is too much practice in doing the unwanted behavior. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will see they get rewards for four feet on the floor, quietly sitting, etc.

Consider some of these ideas:
-- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising.  Check with surgeon before starting use and only for inside use.  More details on strollers: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm

--Caster wheels can be added to a wire crate so the crate can be wheeled from one room to the next so your dog can stay with you.

-- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate.

-- Nan Arthur, CDBC, CPDT, KPACTP writes:
"According to the book, Stress in Dogs, by Martina Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt, the most well-behaved dogs get 17 or more hours of rest and sleep per day.
Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. When dogs have a focus and an understanding about how to behave to get what they want, they are much calmer overall. To do this, each time your dog looks at you, say, something like, “Yes!” or use a clicker to mark the second he looks at you, and then give your dog a high-value food reward. Wait for your dog to look up at you again, say, “Yes,” and reward again. Do this exercise 10 or so times and then say, “All done,” and put the treats away. Come back later and do it again until you can see that your dog is really starting to make automatic eye contact in hopes you will say, “Yes,” again and give him his reward. " [NOTE: treats should be subtracted from the normal daily kibble ration so as not to gain weight during crate rest.]

-- If your dog won’t get too excited seeing what’s happening outside, during the day try putting the crate on the coffee table or the dining room table so there will be a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the house from on high.

-- Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows.

-- Fill a Kong with soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the Kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube. Good thick low salt/no fat chicken broth is full of cartilage-building proteins and amino acids. Freeze it up into cubes for easy access as you need it. Fun and keeps the body hydrated: place cubes in a bowl for licking.

If a dog is jumping up at the sides of the crate, you can lower the ceiling of the crate. Cut a piece of cardboard the size of the top of the crate, punch holes in the corners and tie the cardboard down into the crate to the level of the top of the dog's head when standing. Or cover the top of the crate with a blanket or towel, bringing the blanket/towel down to the level of the dog's eyes so when he/she jumps up, he won't be able to see anything. That may discourage him/her from jumping up.

dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/

dodgerslist.com/2020/02/24/tips-to-help-with-recovery-suite/

Robin with 4wks post op it appears Zizi may be graduated and to begin a slow incremental approach to getting back to family life over a couple of months time. Can you confirm if this correct?

What will be the date of the Dex stop and the gabapentin stop?

I will change the graduation day to Dec 17.

It is ok to roll on her back as she is doing it gently. Any other more rambunctious behavior such as humping see if you can distract her to a different focus. Have ready some lo-cal small pieces of apple, carrot to distract her if need be.