|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 11, 2020 4:42:02 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Post ivdd surgery. When to expect any sign of recovery] 12 days post op from a level 2/3 ivdd diagnosis. Brody still has no movement in back legs. Having a difficult time understanding why he literally walked on his own into surgery but now Almost 2 weeks post surgery, nothing. Bro is an English bulldog. Around 60 lbs. appetite is great He can pee and poop on his own tho we need to hold him up in order for this to happen. [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit Dex as of date?: 0.75mg 2x/day for 7 days, then taper to 1 daily for a week then 1 every other day for a week gabapentin 300mg 2/3x/day needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/Dex! ]
|
|
Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
|
Post by Marjorie on Nov 11, 2020 6:38:35 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Marjorie - what's yours? So glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you. Know more about us and how we team up with veterinarians: dodgerslist.com/about-team-dodgerslist/Disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions? Re-think things: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/hope-quality-life/There can be swelling for a couple of weeks or so following the surgery and sometimes neuro function worsens until that swelling resolves. Hopefully once the swelling is completely gone, you'll see signs of improvement. It will help us work together with you and avoid offering ideas that could cause harm or lead the discussion in the wrong direction delaying help for your dog — please share a bit more detail with us: ❖1 Is there still currently pain? ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. If not in control your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds. Neuropathic pain is not common but is something you should be aware of. This kind of pain is abnormal, phantom pain sensations with severe spinal cord damage. Signs are obsessive licking of paw, leg, genitals, tail. Escalates to biting, life-threatening chewing off parts. Immediately put on an e-collar (or lengthwise folded towel around neck and duct taped closed) to prevent access to lower body. Contact vet immediately for Gabapentin or stronger Lyrica (pregabalin) for neuropathic pain. More info: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/10/neuropathy/?highlight=neuropathic❖2 Medication:How much does your dog weigh? …A Please list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and times per day given. …B If on a steroid….what was the start date & dose? Date of steroid taper? If on a NSAID, for how many days has it been prescribed for? …C PEPCID AC: (If on a steroid or NSAID) Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer,then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). NOTE: Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html i.ibb.co/DCN9611/91x-Aj-s00z-L-SY355.jpg❖3 GI tract problems? -- No nausea/not eating, no vomit? --Poops OK? Normal firmness & color -no dark black or bright red blood indicating bleeding ulcers? No diarrhea? ❖4 Was the date of surgery 10/30?Post-op crate rest is to allow the surgical sites to heal. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/STRICT for a post-op dog means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. Post-op dogs will follow surgeon's directives for PT during post-op rest as the offending disc material was surgically removed. a. How many weeks did your surgeon direct for post-op rest? b. What did your surgeon direct for at home PT?If there is great pain or severe neuro diminishment, acupuncture or laser light therapy can be be started right away as an adjunct to pain meds and to kick start nerve cell energy production. Options: Acupuncture vet who does home visits to avoid back moving during transports. For transport to necessary visits, pad out the recovery suite extra space with a rolled up towel/blanket to prevent body shifts during braking or cornering. CAUTIONS: ~~ Laser light therapy is contra-indicated with tumors which are detected via x-ray. ~~ Why Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/chiropractic/?highlight=chiropracticAlso water therapy can be performed after the stitches/sutures are removed. Some of these exercises can be done right in the bathtub. Many members have found underwater treadmills to be very helpful in regaining their dogs' use of their legs. Please check with the surgeon before starting any of these. dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/?highlight=water%20therapy❖5 DOGs with BLADDER CONTROL: You have more of a challenge than we do with our little dogs we can carry to see best how you can limit his footsteps. If he'll go on a pee pad inside, that might be helpful as you could just place the pee pad right outside of the crate door. Caster wheels can be purchased and put on wire crates so the crate can be wheeled outside. Do what it takes to limit the footsteps to potty. Keep the recovery suite by the exit door. Make a ramp over steps. Allow a very few limited footsteps unless surgeon has directed some walking PT. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! A harness designed specifically for mobility impaired larger dogs may also be helpful. The one many members have used is the "Help Em Up" harness. It has a handle that makes lifting easier. There are other harnesses of this type. Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Owner understanding ensures proper conservaitve treatment principals: ▶︎ 4 phases of healing, what it takes to heal each phase: dodgerslist.com/healing-the-disc/ ▶︎ Roadmap for your fridge so the whole family is on board. Stay the course, avoid dangerous detours for the healing disc: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf Healing prayers for Brody.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 11, 2020 10:13:14 GMT -7
Some answers to the questions 1 Brody is in no pain 2 he is 60lbs. Medications are gabapentin 300mg(capsule) 2/3 times daily as needed. Dexamethasone .75mg(capsule) twice daily for one week then 1 daily for a week then 1 every other day for a week 3 no nausea. Eating good. No vomit. Poops are good 4 surgery was October 29th He has check up this Friday November 13th
Orders we crate rest and bicycles 3 times daily 5 Brody can pee and poop on his own. We just need to carry him from his crate to outside where we have to hold him up to do his business Also wanted to add that this morning for the first time as we were feeding him breakfast, he push against the back of the crate to be able to stand on his back legs while eating. Incredible to see Also noticed that his tail is starting to wag slightly when it’s time to eat or we enter the room
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 11, 2020 12:04:27 GMT -7
Hi there! We are a small friendly little group going just by our first names. I'm Paula what's your name? Super good news you are reporting this morning! Brody appears to be healing his nerves very nicely Nerves heal typically in the reverse order of the damage to the spinal cord: 1. √Deep Pain Sensation: the first neuro function to return. DPS is the critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about this very tricky to correctly idenfiy neuro function. 2. √ Tail wagging with joy at seeing you or getting a treat or meal. 3. √ Bladder and bowel control verified with the "sniff and pee" test. 4. √ Leg Movement, and then ✔︎ability to move up into a stand position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly place the paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. More info: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingnerves.htm
Recommend a figure 8 sling for Brody's back legs as support when he pees. A back leg sling can save your own back if you are not already using some sort of sling! A sling is used as back up to catch a wobbly dog's butt and prevent twisting the back. Any sling needs to be accompanied by a front harness and leash to control speed to the very slow footsteps at potty time especially for the duration of the post-op rest period surgeon has directed. DIY Figure 8 sling QUESTIONSDates are our frame of reference to understand things. Has Brody been on Dex 0.75mgs 2x/day as of the date he came home? What date did he come home? What date will Dex go to 0.75mg 1x/day? Do you feel you have the ability to carry 60lbs Brody safely to the potty place? Keeping his back horizontal to the ground as you lift him into your arms and as you take him outdoors to pee? EMAIL ALERTS Thank you for registering. Set up an email alerts as timely interaction/communications is a plus when helping your dog. How to set up: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/7353/register-bookmark-dogs-post-thread Do keep us posted on what your surgeon finds on the 11/13 visit and for how much longer he would like to see Brody on Post-op rest which does include the at home PT he wants for Brody.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 11, 2020 13:34:33 GMT -7
My name is mark. Iill ask my wife when she gets home anout when he’s been on the deF and for how long. He’s only been home since late last Friday nite November 6th. We opted to keep Brody there for an extra 5 days after the original 3 days post surgery. I get the sense the doctor was optimistic and hoping Brody would have been further along than he was when he finally left the vet hospital. We realize every pup heals at diff rates but just can’t wrap my head around him going in as a grade 2 and coming out a grade 4/5...essentially paralyzed. As far as what I described before with him pushing himself to his back feet, he did do this, however I don’t want u to get the wrong idea. It wSnt like he purposely bent his legs and squatted upwards to stand. He pushed of the back of the crate and pushed himself into the standing position. He is deF trying to get up but not a graceful as I might have made it sounds. His rear legs are like limp pieces of spaghetti. No movement at all from them. And yes, I and my two teenage sons have no problem carrying him in the proper position from the crate to outside where he can relieve himself.
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 11, 2020 14:28:20 GMT -7
There is often swelling caused by the surgery itself that can lead to temporary setbacks in neuro function. At the end of 2-4 weeks the true direction of healing becomes more evident. Dr Isaacs ACVIM Neurology talks about healing here: dodgerslist.com/2020/09/02/expectation-for-spinal-cord-healingWhen my dog Frankie went in for surgery he was paralyzed but still had some DPS. After surgery, he had none. This neuro setback was likely due to the surgical swelling. At the one-month follow up with the surgeon Frankie was as paralyzed as when he went in. The surgery did remove the terrible pain. It took months but Frankie eventually regained his ability to walk and bowel and bladder control. Nerve healing takes a long time. I think surgeons are sometimes pessimistic about recovery chances after a certain time period has passed. That is because there is usually no long term follow-up. I am not sure if Frankie's surgeon ever knew that Frankie learned to walk again.
What helped Frankie the most after surgery was water therapy on an underwater treadmill. I do not think he would have recovered nearly as well without it. At his first visit, he came in with a sling supporting is back end. At that time, his back legs were just dead weights. As we continued the therapy, his legs got stronger, and he relearned how to move them and then later could walk on his own. Usually this therapy can be started once the stitches/staples have been removed. If you are considering this, speak to your surgeon about when it can be started. I am not sure if you have yet had a chance to look at the page Marjorie suggested. There is a video that shows how it works:
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 11, 2020 14:56:07 GMT -7
Yep. Our surgeon already has us scheduled for twice a week hydro therapy. Said this will start as soon as brodys sutures are out. Such an incredibly difficult situation to deal with. I was assured by another doctor over the phone while brody was still recovering at the hospital post surgery that he did indeed have “feeling” in his rear legs. However, as I further educate myself, I’m not sure that “feeling” and deep pain sensation are two in the same ..
|
|
|
Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 11, 2020 15:11:44 GMT -7
DPS is an indicator that the brain can communicate through the spinal cord to the rest of the body. When a dog can control his bladder or wag his tail in response to something happy, like Brody, there is no doubt that the dog has DPS. Having DPS bodes well for future healing. The surgeon may have said feeling as a sort of layman's synonym for DPS. Many people are not familiar with the term DPS and what it means.
When my dog had his surgery I had no idea what DPS meant. I learned from Dodgerslist.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 11, 2020 15:24:50 GMT -7
Yep. Truthfully, I had an idea what dps was, but only asked if Brody had “feeling” I. His rear legs... mostly because I was terrified to hear that he had some feeling, but no DPS. But yes, it appears at this point that he does indeed had some degree of DPS. (Full control of his bowels/bladder, his newly slightly wagging of his tail, and now his apparent attempts to push his rear legs upward in an attempt to stand. Thank u for your knowledge and sharing your experiences with us
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 15, 2020 8:30:05 GMT -7
Brody had his check up with the vet who did his surgery. My wife took him. Told her my wife he is not concerned at this point that Brody is not using his rear legs yet. Said he had hoped he would be by now but that all dogs heal at different rates. Was very pleased to see that Brody is able to relieve himself with no issue on his own. Also pleased to see Brodys tail is wagging. And also pleased that he recently is pushing himself up to be able to stand and hold his weight on on his rear legs. The doctor told us that he was very pleased with the surgery and said he was able to remove all the material pressing into the spinal cord. Said the procedure was “routine”. Told my wife if we do not see any further progress within three more weeks, to call and come for a visit. I am still worried he is not moving his rear legs at all. We are doing the gentle exercises with him 3 times daily. Also concerned the doctor did not tell us when to seek out and begin rehabilitation. I also have noticed that because Brody is a very front end muscular bulldog, he has been putting all his weight on his front legs when eating or drinking and literally lifting the back half of his body off the ground. I’m hoping I didn’t see this and mistake it for him attempting to get onto his rear legs. Thank so for listening Forgot to add the because brodys disc issue was “chronic” , it is expected to take longer to see results. However, I am still having a difficult time buying that for the reason Brody was able to walk into the vet for his surgery and now, still, no use of his legs. ....
|
|
|
Post by Ann Brittain on Nov 15, 2020 8:58:00 GMT -7
It is a good sign that Brody is wagging his tail. Peeing on his own is also a big deal. It is true that different dogs heal differently. I don't think the fact that Brody was walking prior to surgery indicates that he should able to walk immediately after surgery.
Concerning whether Brody is standing or just using his upper body to propel him up is hard to say without seeing what he's doing. Although it does seem odd for him to be able to bear weight on his hind legs yet have no movement of them yet.
When we brought Buster home from his surgery, we were given several pages of exercises and instructions on when to start them and how many repetitions to do. We were also told about other therapies like swim therapy and acupuncture. We don't have swim therapy location near us, but I was able to do "bathtub" therapy and the acupuncture. In my experience, I believe the swim therapy was the most effective at helping Buster regain muscle tone.
I expect that Brody will continue to progress slowly. Each improvement will lead to the next and, fingers crossed, he'll be back to his old self soon.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 15, 2020 9:08:47 GMT -7
Mark the first step in relearning the art of walking is being able to move up in to a stand with back legs. Next step and no one can know what date that will be on is to begin being able to make walking motions. Brady is on the classic textbook order of nerve healing. PATIENCE Please take to heart the nerve healing philosophy of veterinary surgeon Andy Torrington BVMS CertSAO MRCVS: "The first is to try to remain happy with your dog’s current status whilst encouraging improvement and the second is to be patient. This is not always easy as progress can seem relatively slow at the beginning and our only wish is for our dog to be normal again. This can lead to frustration and a feeling that your dog will never get better and this gives rise to obvious distress. If we feel like this our interaction with our dog will be flavoured by disappointment and what can be a unique opportunity to deepen our bond with our pet can turn into a tortuous process. In order to avoid this think about how long it takes a baby to learn to walk and how complicated walking is, think how long a baby spends in nappies and how complex the act of appropriate urination is. Your dog will not take that long and things only seem to be dragging because you are focussing so intently on your dog’s disability rather than their progressive improvement in ability. Remember to keep life normal, do not spend every minute with your dog looking for progress, do not become housebound; go out and meet friends and family as you would normally, in this way ‘the kettle will boil’. When your dog is beginning to walk, keep the sessions very short as tired legs make for reinforcement of negative habits. Standing will be achieved when placed in a standing position although they will not be able to voluntarily get into a standing position. The length of time that they can stand will extend and then a few steps will be taken. After this the progress is defined by gradual improvement in coordination and stamina. The time taken from injury to return of independent function may be up to 3 months although improvement will still continue six months after. In this latter stage the rate of improvement is slower and the process is more subtle, but it will happen." www.torvet.co.uk/clinical-problems/spinal-problems/thoracolumbar-aftercare.htmlDid you ask if Brody when will Brody be off of strict rest where you can begin to re-introduce him back to normal family life (we have tips on doing this when ready)? Usually post op rest is 4 or 6 weeks long. Let us know. Did YOU ask if underwater treadmill can be pursued now?
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 15, 2020 9:10:31 GMT -7
Thank u for the reply. And yes, fingers crossed. So I literally just witnessed Brodys rear legs moving independently while trying to readjust to a more comfortable position on to his side. So I stand corrected. His rear legs do appear to have some sort of intentional movement. We have full intentions on having Brody do hydrotherapy as well as anything else we can do to give him the best chance at recovery. The closest rehab for us is around an hours drive but that is certainly doable.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 15, 2020 9:14:29 GMT -7
Hydrotheraphy includes swimming therapy. Swimming is the practice in swimming. Underwater threadmill therapy is the practice in learning to walk---that is what you want.
Go Brody!!!!!! FAB news on observing leg movement. Gravity is hard to deal with when learning to walk. That is why underwater treadmill using water buoyancy really expedites learning how to walk again if it is in your budget and area.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 15, 2020 9:29:08 GMT -7
Yes. Our surgeon has specifically advocated for hydrotherapy. The facility where Brody had the surgery also has a full rehabilitation unit including hydrotherapy. He however did not specify on when we should/can start this. From everything I have read/researched it seems around one month. Either way, I plan on calling the rehabilitation center and having a conversation tomorrow to better gauge when we should bring him in to start. As far as how long to keep him in strict crate rest, our surgeon said at Friday’s appointment [11/13] that it’s ok to have Brody out of the crate more often to be with the other bulldogs and my children. It really seems to help him emotionally and physically. He is very calm as it’s his nature thankfully but he is still always 100% supervised when he is out of his crate.
|
|
|
Post by Ann Brittain on Nov 15, 2020 10:40:09 GMT -7
Its recommended to have 4 to 6 weeks strict crate rest for dogs who have had surgery. Since Brody is only about 2 weeks out, I'd error on the side of caution and continue with strict crate rest. The last thing you want is for your dog to have a set back because he was allowed to be too active too soon. Other dogs don't understand Brody's limitations. If they start playing and Brody may try to join in. If your children are very young, they too might not understand the importance of being gentle with Brody.
The way I look at it is that a few more weeks isn't that long. You'll be so happy if he is healed and able to do his regular routine, but crushed if over-activity has heeded his progress.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 15, 2020 11:30:19 GMT -7
Agreed. Tho so u know, my other 2 English bulldogs are old men. Lol. Not very active at all. And my children are 20,17,16, and 13. Very responsible and aware of the situation. Brodys spend most of the day in the crate but we are seeing emotion and physical benefits of him being able to rest and sleep outside the crate and with the family. Thanks a million for the great insight, advice, and invaluable information you guys give. Means so much
|
|
|
Post by Ann Brittain on Nov 15, 2020 11:39:39 GMT -7
Thanks for explaining your situation. I was imagining younger energetic dogs trying to get your Brody to play and little kids jumping around! Didn't make a real safe situation, for Brody, in my mind!
Shortly after Buster's surgery, he was making progress, but not at all happy being confined. I kept him in his recovery suite, but spent a lot of time on the floor with our other dog nearby so Buster didn't feel so isolated. Mental health is also important during the healing process, too.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 23, 2020 11:56:52 GMT -7
Hey guys, it’s Brodys dad. So we are around 25 days post and the little progress we’ve have is painfully slow and torturous to watch. At this point, I’ve begun to question myself as to whether he is even progressing at all? I keep hearing and reading about other dogs who can walk just a week or two out of surgery and most of these dogs were stage 4 or 5 going in. At nearly a month out, and Brody going into surgery walking on his own as a stage 2/3, I’m still having an issue understanding why he has almost no use of his legs post op. Could there have been major trauma to his spinal cord during surgery trying to remove the material that was compressing it? At a month out and having adhered to the strict crate rest, I’m sure spinal swelling isn’t a factor at this point. Idk..... having a tough time here understanding anything with this. His first therapy session isn’t until December 2. The sides of both his ankles are scabbed and constantly bleeding from him readjustment inside the crate as well. The only progress I see at all is the same progress I saw 2 weeks ago... sorry for the rant. At a loss and just feel so helpless
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 23, 2020 13:15:38 GMT -7
Mark, having patience to wait on nerve connections to form is not the strong point for many of us. The first underwater treadmill therapy will be on Dec 2? That will be a very instrumental therapy in allowing Brody to strengthen muscles and begin to learn the art of walking again. -- Are you still observing that he can push up with back legs into a stand position with all four legs? -- Are you still seeing some purposeful movement of the back legs when repositioning himself in the suite? -- Have you tried some vet wrap to lightly secure a gauze pad at the points on the ankle that get too much friction? -- Do you put an antibiotic cream on the open skin to avoid infection? EMT gel. Might be available at your local Farm supply store if you have one: www.amazon.com/Trophy-Colagen-Wound-Dressing-1-Ounce/dp/B0002B8CPC/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=EMT+gel&qid=1563807221&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-2Neosporin at grocery store: Brand name Vet Wrap® or brand X at grocery store. Be sure to not stretch and wrap too tightly that it will cut off circulation. Self sticking stretchy material to hold the gauze pad in place.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 23, 2020 13:33:20 GMT -7
I will get the vet wrap. Thanks for that advice. December 2nd is the first in person consultation with the rehab people. Not sure what we will be doing. I do wish it was sooner. His tail is definitely wagging with more authority. His back leg muscles are absolutely displaying atrophy at this point, with that said, he is still attempting to push up onto his back legs. But only during feeding times now. And doesn’t seem as strong as the first times we saw him attempting this 2 weeks ago. If we help him stand on all fours while eating, he can still hold himself up for most of the feeding. When we take him out to pee and poop, when we help him with the sling or hold his rear body, he but drags his legs. Zero attempts at any walking motion. Just drags his legs along. When the act of peeing or pooping, we put his legs in the stand position and he purposefully gets into the squatting position. He is happy. Not depressed. Had his check up with neurologist last week to remove sutures. Vet didn’t seem concerned with lack of progression but did admit he had hoped for more progress. Said if no further improvement in 3 weeks, to bring him in. I’m beginning to have doubts about the success of this surgery and honestly becoming more and more suspect of having made the wrong decision for Brody. He was walking prior to. Now he is not. I’m sure I’m forgetting details.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
|
Post by PaulaM on Nov 23, 2020 13:56:18 GMT -7
Mark, we all give it a try to second guess decision if it was the right one. At the time you made the decision, you based it on the information at hand and made the best decision on behalf of Brody. There are absolutely no guarantees with conservative medical treatment just the same as there are no guarentees with doing a surgery. Not easy, but give it a try to focus on the good things. -- still attempting to use those back legs to push up in to a stand. That means no backward steps of having lost that function. VERY GOOD!!! -- not depressed, definitely authoritative happy tail wags. Having good spirits is what we all wish for patients. Make sure when you are around Brody to put on a happy face and talk only positive things around him. Dogs pick up on our every emotion with the way our face looks, how we hold our body and the tone of our voice. You have a good situation with Brody being a happy boy. That means he can get back to family life and enjoying every moment life has to offer while waiting on more nerve healing to happen. That's how dogs roll. They are not like us wishing for what was, rethinking if they made the right choice. They love life and treasure each of its moments. Life is a journey. No matter where you are in the travels, live in the now. Each moment has a gift to be enjoyed no matter how cloudy the day might seem to be. Dogs live in the moment, we can learn a lot from them! Never give up hope, stay strong, stay positive!
-- Walking on land, fighting gravity is a difficult thing after an operation. This is why getting into underwater treadmill therapy eases the ability to relearn how to walk. With sutures now out, give it a try in your bathtub with a nice rubber traction mat to allow Brody some ability to move the back legs with water buoyancy. That is if 60lb Brody will have room to move the legs bit in your size tub. Follow the principals explained in the video below for some bathtub work. Safety tips: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy/Do what Brody will allow to give those back legs some PT and keep the muscles firing, the joints flexing with tickling the paws pads, massage back limbs, range of motion, etc.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 23, 2020 18:27:03 GMT -7
Thank u for your detailed reply. Sorry for the delay as I was called into work. December 2 he begins his therapy so I’m really hoping to see some improvement then. I will keep this board posted on any changes Brody makes. Thank u
|
|
|
Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 23, 2020 19:48:00 GMT -7
Mark, my Nala took about 3 months after her surgery to begin walking.
I found underwater treadmill therapy and laser therapy to be very helpful.
Try not to "should" on yourself! You love Brody and made the best decision for him at the time that you could.
Brody is still his same lovable self inside.
Try writing down anything positive you notice in his recovery. Even small things add up.
It's still very early in the healing process. Hang in there.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Nov 24, 2020 0:47:29 GMT -7
Thank u for your helpful response. Slow and steady I suppose.. Brody graduated on Nov 26
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Dec 6, 2020 7:05:28 GMT -7
Just an update on our big boy. Around the 6 week post surgery date. 6 days ago, my wife caught him standing on his own in his cage. He obviously was able to get into this position in his own. From that Monday, 6 days ago, he has been attempting to take steps on his own. Not very far. Maybe around 5 feet or so but walking nevertheless. His legs are extremely wobbly and often crossed a bit while making these attempts. He only try’s this a few times a day. The rest of the time, when he wants to move he will try to drag himself and we will have to help him up to move him to where he wants to be. The past 3 days I have noticed that when rubbing/petting/massaging around his hind quarters, up on his upper thighs towards his butt and back, he kind of hunches up. Almost like it’s uncomfortable for him. I’m hoping this is just his nerves starting to fire or maybe sore muscles as he has lost an incredible amount of muscle mass in his rear. He had his first therapy session this past Wednesday which was only 1/2 hour and consisted of massage/ stretching/ cold laser treatment/ and an exercise with a ball under his belly. We got a price list for packages of rehabilitation. 1/2 sessions or 1 hour sessions. How ever many times a week we decide. We haven’t made a decision yet on to how often per week or how long per session. We were not able to do hydrotherapy because of the wounds on his legs which we are still working on healing. The PT vet also at the end of the appointment said she didn’t see much movement from Brody but we no this to not be the case as he has been standing on his own for several minutes for at least 2 weeks and now recently able to get up on his own and actually walk... I’m sure I’m forgetting a bunch. Happy holidays to everyone and thank u for listening Mark
|
|
|
Post by Ann Brittain on Dec 6, 2020 7:48:50 GMT -7
It's great to hear that Brody is trying to walk on his own. We, too, were told that Buster didn't show signs of improvement by his neurologist. This was even after he'd started wobbly walking. The vet discounted it as 'spinal walking' but, in the end, he was able to learn how to walk again. The technical term for it didn't matter to us he was walking and that was the goal.
There are quite a few physical therapy exercises you can do at home. My opinion, especially with our Buster, is that he was more comfortable doing them with us than a therapist he didn't know in an office where he felt uncomfortable. That said, physical therapy is important where ever it is done. It's too bad he can't do aqua therapy now, but hopefully that will be something he can do when his wounds heal.
We did get Buster a 'wheel chair' and our experience was that the stability of being upright helped Buster learn to use his legs again. Plus he was very happy with the extra freedom it gave him to move around. The cart prevented him from rubbing off fur and creating raw or sore spots on his legs and paws.
We also noticed that Buster's hind end was more sensitive to touch as his nerves healed. Sometimes his hind legs would twitch as if the nerves were trying to regenerate. If it becomes clear Brody is in pain or if you're concerned, please discuss it with your vet.
Good luck with your boy and happy holidays.
|
|
|
Post by Mark & Brody on Dec 6, 2020 8:19:41 GMT -7
How can we tell the difference between “spinal walking” and whatever the term for “real walking” might be??
I should note that it was confirmed that he does indeed have DPS. With that said , I believe I know the answer to my previous question...
How can we tell the difference between “spinal walking” and whatever the term for “real walking” might be??
|
|
|
Post by Ann Brittain on Dec 6, 2020 8:29:54 GMT -7
Not all paralyzed dogs will spinal walk and I've never read anything that indicates why some are able to spinal walk and others don't. I believe our Buster was spinal walking because he never regained DPS in his hind legs.
I'm glad Brody has DPS as it indicates his nerves are healing and his chances of walking again are improved.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
|
Post by PaulaM on Dec 6, 2020 14:24:57 GMT -7
Mark, you are reporting some VERY wonderful news on return of purposeful leg movements. Brody is NOT doing any spinal walking cause he has DPS. Some dogs can possibly learn spinal walking when they have no DPS and some never do. As soon as Brody can get into underwater treadmill, the better it will be for him. With weak muscles and new found nerve connections, he will still find it a challenge to fight against gravity in re-learning the art of walking. Water buoyancy and the treadmill moving underfoot is an accelerator to learning to walk again. Do you have a Help 'em up harness so that you can give him supportive sling walking opportunities at home. That first time therapy lasting 30mins does not seem long, but it is for a dog who's been a couch potato for 6 weeks. And that might be the reason to be sore. See the sample PT schedule you can do at home with sling walking in your hallway since now Brady has graduated from strict post-op rest. If you find two separate things of a harness and a sling cumbersome to use with sling walking PT the GingerLead or your own DIY workaround could help. For IVDD dogs always attach leash to a chest harness. No more collars for IVDD dogs.---- GingerLead with integrated leash to attach to your own chest harness (use no collars for IVDD dogs.) Mention Dodgerslist sent you...maybe there is luck to get a deal? www.gingerlead.com/dog-slings/dog-support-rehabilitation-harnesses.htm GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free riegn of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Here is a sample schedule to slowly introduce your dog back to family life and physical activity: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/?highlight=sample%20scheduleLots more ideas and tips about life with an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tipsPT THERAPY AT CLINIC or HOME - Water therapy at home: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/28/surgery-dog-water-therapy. How is are the abraisions healing?.... Is any ointment helping. Did the VetWrap® provide some degree of protection?
|
|