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Post by Natalie & Coco on Oct 11, 2020 7:52:20 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Hi. I'm new here. I need advice for my dachshund Coco.
[Natalie, please do not edit this post. It has been marked by the moderators. Any new info, please provide in a new post. Thank you!]
Hi there, My name is Natalie. My boyfriend Glenn and I live in Tampa Florida. We are the proud, happy and loving owners of two amazing dachshunds. We rescued them from a terrible puppy mill breeder in 2017. Their names are Coco and Penny. We believe they are either mother and daughter or sisters. They are inseparable. The reason we are here on this forum is for Coco. Eight days ago we noticed that she wasn't acting herself. At first, we thought it was likely a stomach ache or something similar. I thought it seemed more serious and started researching online and started going down the IVDD rabbit hole. Later that night, my worst fears began to come true. She was walking with a tilt and wobble. Then she stopped using her rear legs.
We were recommended to a new veterinarian as we weren't happy with our current one. They opened at 8am and we were there waiting at 7:45. The doctor diagnosed her with IVDD. We were crushed.
She was admitted and given IV fluids, a steroid [exact name?] and pain meds [exact names?]. They kept her for 2 days and released her to us saying that she had made a little progress and was trying to use her back legs. She was given prescriptions for oral prednisone 5mg (½ pill twice per day) and diazepam (5mg ¼ pill every 8 hours). She began her oral meds on 10/05.. She weighs 15 pounds.
Fast forward to now, and it’s been 8 days and we both are still coming to terms with this new reality. She is as well.
We are devastated and heart broken that our beautiful girl has been dealt this hand. It’s so hard to watch her try to move even a few inches. But, we are resolute and united to do whatever it takes to ease her pain, love her, mend her or just find a new normal. Whatever is best for her we will do. The only thing we will not do is give up on her. Ever.
These “rescue dogs” that were mistreated and unwanted have changed both of our lives in so many ways. They truly are blessings and I don’t use that word often or lightly.
I will go through the questions in the introduction to give all the information I can. Sorry if I’m repeating things…
#1 Coco weighs 15 pounds. She is taking oral Prednisone 5mg (½ pill twice per day) and Diazepam 5mg (¼ pil every eight hours). We were told to titrate the Prednisone down, but we called the vet after seeing she might be getting worse with walking or bladder function and are now staying at this dose until her follow up appt.
[Moderator’s Note. Please do not edit
15 lbs
crated on 10/3 in hospital
10/3 Sat Name of steroid? in hospital
10/3 Sat name of pain meds ? in hospital
Prednisone as of 10/5: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for ? days, then test taper for: √10/10 pain (shakes,tight tummy) / √10/9 neuro (▼dragging back legs)
Diazepam 1.25mgs 3x/day
needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/ Prednisone! ]
#2 Since she was a rescue we have no paperwork, but she is definitely a dachshund. Her name is Coco. She also goes by Koo Koo, Smokie, Smoka Mocha, Taco Belly and Taco Smelly.
We live just outside of Tampa Florida in Zephyrhills. Yes like the bottled water LOL
#3 She was diagnosed with IVDD. The vet said it is a disc problem in her upper back near her shoulder blades. The vet is a GP I believe.
#4 She was diagnosed on 10/03 (saturday morning). We started her crate rest when she came home on 10/05.
#5 She groans sometimes when she is picked up for a potty break outside. Her belly is tight and she shakes occasionally.
#6 She can very rarely walk for a couple of seconds with a wobble and tilt. But it seems to be getting less and less. She can wag her tail. Her toes on her ▼back legs have started to curl under her feet.
#7 She wets her bed but seems to hold her poopy for outside. She will ask/bark to be taken out.
#8 She is eating and drinking. She does seem to be more thirsty than normal. Her poops are normal color but very dry with no blood.
Some more details that I would love advice on...
We are using a pack and play go for her recovery suite. Is this okay? Too big or too small?
We use a fleece strap for rear leg support during bathroom breaks.
She had a bladder stone removed 6 months ago. (Her sister Penny did also) It was enormous and spiky. We switched her to Hill’s science diet urinary c/d dry food just a few weeks ago.
She is only on a muscle relaxer. Not a pain med per say. Is this okay?
This is all so fresh and raw. It’s overwhelming. We’re coping, But we feel lost. We’re terrified that we’re doing something incorrectly that could harm her.
We’ve read through a lot of new information on this forum already before posting this introduction. Especially about the importance of being strict during the recovery process. Things such as no lap sitting, no sleeping in bed and minimal walking around during potty time. We changed and adapted to this already as our vet’s advice wasn’t this specific on strictness in our daily regimen.
We welcome and will heed any advice from others that have already been down this path we are just beginning.
Thank you in advance. Sincerely, Natalie, Glenn, Coco and Penny
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Post by Jessica on Oct 11, 2020 10:20:46 GMT -7
Hi Natalie (and Glenn, Coco, and Penny) - Welcome to Dodgerslist. We are glad you’ve joined us on the support Forum! While we are not veterinarians, we have lots to share with you. I'm sorry to hear you are going through this difficult time, but glad you reached out to us. Please let us know when you have questions, or need clarification. I'll start with some basic information here, and other moderators will jump in with further advice (especially concerning medication and bladder function) to help you best care for your Coco. Pain Control:Coco is showing signs of pain, as indicated by a tight belly, groaning when lifted, and intermittent shaking. There should be no sign of pain from one dose of meds to the next. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. Look for your dog to be acting their normal, perky self when pain is fully under control round the clock. Alert your vet immediately when seeing pain is not being managed so pain meds can be adjusted.There are more medications that can be prescribed to help to make Coco more comfortable. Helpful information is found here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/30/pain-medications/?highlight=medication. When is the follow up visit scheduled with your vet?Steroids such as prednisone can increase thirst. This may be contributing to the extra water intake you have observed. Medications can also cause constipation (dry stool): You can 1) Give a teaspoon of plain pureed canned pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight. 2) Alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato. Add a Stomach Protector:Please include the all important stomach protector such as Pepcid AC when taking any anti-inflammatory med (steroid or NSAID). Ask your vet if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine) - (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health issues” answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine).We follow vets who are proactive against not eating, vomit, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers by giving doxie weight dogs 5mg Pepcid (famotidine) 30 minutes before the prednisone. Formula is: lbs x 0.44mgs famotidine 15lbs dog x 0.44mgs famotidine = 6.6 mgs famotidine. Pill are usually 10mgs tabs. So round down to 5mgs every 12 hours. Strict Crate Rest:100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. The size of crate, ex-pen, etc. should only be big enough to stand up, turn around and when lying down to fully stretch out legs. Measurements would be approximately as wide as the dog’s head to tail length by 1.5 times the dog’s length. The suite should be tall enough for the dog to stand on all fours. The dog should be able to easily turn around. When lying down the dog should be able to fully stretch out their legs. If you find the pack and play allows for too much movement, pad out any extra room in the suite with a rolled up blanket as kind of a bolster that deters walking around in the suite area.To help with accidents, layer bedding in this manner: Trash bag enclosed mattress, pee pad*, fleece bottom sheet tucked in all around mattress. *OPTION to disposable pee pads are reusable waterproof absorbent bed pads. Look for children’s disposable bed mats at your grocery store. Cut down the twin size to make several suite size ones.  Potty Time:Am I correct that Coco doesn't specifically sniff and squat and then release urine when out for potty breaks? Did this begin on 10/3 or is this a new development? Wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted which are indication of an overflowing bladder and loss of bladder control. Overflowing bladders need to be expressed to avoid UTIs. More information to come. There is also a helpful page here: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/. Carrying:Always carry your dog to and from the potty area. Carry your dog supporting both ends with each arm. Use a six-foot leash attached to a harness and a sling to stabilize the rear. You stand in one spot to minimize the number of footsteps your dog may take. Make sure the steps are as few as absolutely possible.
Cleaning:Marjorie’s tip: boil and cool decaf green tea to dampen a washcloth, neutralizes urine on skin and fur to avoid rashes from urine scald + leaves a clean fragrance.  Important Info for your Fridge: Emergency signs your whole family needs to know about: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/emergency-fridge-flyer2.pdfRoadmap: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 11, 2020 10:59:02 GMT -7
Natalie, do make sure to read and take in the excellent points Jessica makes in her post above. For a 15 lbs dog, the prednisone RX is at the low end of the anti-inflammatory dose. The more typical is that vets are using the upper end of the anti-inflammatory dose especially since you are reporting NEW as of 10/10ish (please use exact dates help us to avoid bad assumptions) diminishing neuro functions of now paws knuckle under, legs more wobbly. And you are reporting there is still pain of shaking and a tight tummy. ASAP today if at all possible or 1st thing in the am phone your vet to report observations and very STRONGLY advocate for these things. --- Prednisone to be dose at the higher end. Expect the RX to be 5mgs every 12 hrs for a 5-7 days course, then a test for pain/neuro tapering of pred. Depending on the dosage, steroids can be replacement ( xxx) steroid hormone in dog not able to make suffiennt hormone, can function as anti-inflammatory drug during a disc episode or provide immunosuppressive (prednisone 1 mg/kg every 12 hours) effects for other diseases. FYI: Pred is one med owners should never self prescribe. The vet's job is to Rx and yours is to report observations and advocate. Excellent reading about use of anti-inflammatories during a disc epidode.--- Learn why PREDNISONE is not a pain reliever, how long it could take to rid the body of all painfully inflamed and swollen tissue around the spinal cord. dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/steroids-vs-nsaids/ --- Advocate for the typical 3-way combo of pain meds. And that each pain med be given 3x/day (every 8 hours). —Methocarbamol works on the pain of muscle spasms. It often is noted to work better than diazepam.
Reading reference:
— Tramadol is the general pain reliever. — Gabapentin works on nerve pain. There should be no sign of pain from one dose of meds to the next. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. Look for your dog to be acting their normal, perky self when pain is fully under control round the clock.
Let us know if you currently see any of these signs:
◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground.
◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ◻︎ not their normal perky selves
--- Let us know when you have 5mgs of Pepcid AC (famotidine) 2x/day on board with your vet's acknowledgement Coco has no kidney, Liver or heart murmurs. |
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Post by Natalie & Coco on Oct 11, 2020 14:06:57 GMT -7
Hi Jessica- Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to us about our girl Coco. The answer to your first question. Her f ollow up is scheduled on 10/19. But, after reading all the helpful information you have provided, I'll be calling first thing in the morning to discuss her pain level and other medications she needs. I actually called early yesterday morning on 10/10. I was panicking, because the night before while taking her outside to go potty, I noticed the small progress she made from being admitted to the vet hospital [10/9]was rapidly declining. She was no longer able take a few wobbly steps. Now all she could do, is drag herself with her front paws, her butt was on the ground and her toes were curled under her back feet. (she pooped while doing this) Her urine also had a very toxic smell. I was suppose start titrating Coco's prednisone down the that same day on 10/10. I explained all this to the nurse over the phone. The Dr told me not to follow the titrating scale. Keep giving her 1/2 of a 5mg prednisone pill twice daily.Second question. Coco mainly used pee pads with no problem, she would also pee outside fine. sniff, squat, pee. She has only peed like normal once, the night she came home from hospital. That's it. I don't have the names of the IV medications they gave her while in the hospital. I will get them when I call tomorrow. Thank you again! I really appreciate you taking the time to help our sweet baby. Natalie  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Oct 11, 2020 15:39:15 GMT -7
Natalie,with the reveal that on 10/9, Cocoa lost use of legs, THAT IS A REAL EMERGENCY your vet should have attended to on the phone on 10/10 ASAP!!! Hours matter upon observing severe loss of nerve function to dragging the legs to get help As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord
2. Wobbly walking, legs cross
3. Nails/toes scuffing floor
4. Paws knuckle under
5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand
6. 10/9 Coco! Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down)
7. _likely_ Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors.
8. Tail wagging with joy is lost
9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: dodgerslist.com/2020/02/10/surgery-vs-conservative/Can you call the ER (in Zhills or if need be Tampa) today/tonight and get prednisone up on the more typical dose that works on a disc episode caused inflamed spinal cord for a 15lbs dog. Do not self prescribe for Coco, but know to expect that the high end of the range for prednisone would be Prednisone 5mgs each dose every 12 hrs.Coca may very likely have lost bladder control and needs to be manually expressed and antibiotic on board to fight the urinary bladder tract infection before it moves up into the kidneys. You will need a hands-on-top-of-your-hands type of expressing lesson if she no longer can sniff outside on an old urine spot and decide to release urine there. Also if she leaks on you when lifted another sign of lost bladder control. Foul urine smell is also one of the signs of lost control. First reading and viewing the video at this page to get more out of that ER lesson this afternoon ASAP: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/05/bladder-bowel-care/ |
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Post by Natalie & Coco on Oct 19, 2020 20:22:08 GMT -7
Hi Paula-
I appreciate your help and concern last week with Coco. It’s nice to have a place to go to for support where everyone truly knows what I’m going through.
This is my first time getting back on the site sine my original message. This is all so new, painful and overwhelming.
Coco returned to the vet that next morning [10/12?]. I had all the great information, that learned on your site with me.
Increased ▲prednisone [?mg ?x/day] and▲tramadol [?mg ?x/day]. Added more medicine for her care, ✙robaxin [?mg ?x/day], ✙gabapentin [?mg ?x/day] and ✙Pepcid [?mg ?x/day] . She also was given an ✙antibiotic [?mg ?x/day] for a UTI. She is on crate rest and will start laser therapy next week.
[Moderator’s Note. Please do not edit
15 lbs
crated on 10/3 in hospital
10/3 Sat Name of steroid? in hospital
10/3 Sat name of pain meds ? in hospital
Prednisone as of 10/5: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for ? days, then test taper for: √10/10 pain (shakes,tight tummy) / √10/9 neuro (dragging back legs)
as of 10/12: ?mg ?x/day for ? days, then test taper for pain/neuro
Diazepam 1.25mgs 3x/day
▲Tramadol ??mg ??x/day
✙Robaxin (Methocarbamol) ??mg ??x/day
✙Gabapentin ??mg ??x/day
✙Antibiotic (Name?) ??mg ??x/day
✙Pepcid AC ??mg ??x/day]
Thanks again for all you do!
Natalie & Coco
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Oct 20, 2020 5:30:51 GMT -7
Great job on getting Coco the meds that she needs, Natalie! Is her pain completely under control now? No sign of pain from one dose of pain meds to the next?
Please fill in the med list with the exact mg of each med given and the frequency given. For how many days has the increased dosage of the Prednisone been given before tapering? What is the name of the antibiotic?
Prednisone as of 10/5: 2.5 mgs 2x/day for ? days, then test taper for: √10/10 pain (shakes,tight tummy) / √10/9 neuro (▼dragging back legs)
as of 10/11: ??mg ??x/day for ?? days, then test taper for pain/neuro
Diazepam 1.25mgs 3x/day
Tramadol ??mg ??x/day
Robaxin (Methocarbamol) ??mg ??x/day
Gabapentin ??mg ??x/day
Antibiotic (Name?) ??mg ??x/day
Pepcid AC ??mg ??x/day]
Have you been expressing Coco's bladder? How are you doing with that? Does she leak on you when lifted or are you finding wet bedding? Every now and then, try a sniff and pee test to see if bladder control is returning. Carry Coco to a spot where she's peed before, support her hind end by the hips, not under the belly, let her sniff and see if she can release urine on her own. If so, then bladder control is returning. You may need to express after she's gone on her own until you're sure she can completely empty her bladder on her own.
Healing prayers for Coco.
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