Kerri's Ollie 8/11 conservative- NECK -Yorkie - UK

Kerry, welcome!  Ollie can be a good candidate to heal under conservative treatment if his pain is being fully managed AND you understand the reason for the VERY STRICT rest.

Is Ollie fully out of pain? Round the clock, dose right up to the next dose of paracetamol?

Seeing any SIGNS OF PAIN?:
◻︎ shivering-trembling                   ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved 
◻︎ slow to move                          ◻︎ tight tense tummy 
◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground. 
◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position 
◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions
◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. 
◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain
◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight 
◻︎ not their normal perky selves
What country are you in?

Normally there are three sources of pain with a neck disc episode. And neck discs tend to be much  more painful than those located in the back.  Only one source is being addressed.

IF you are seeing ANY pain, advocate for the usual of a 3-way combo of the pain meds and to be RX'd 3x/day (every 8 hours).
—Methocarbamol works on the pain of muscle spasms.
— paracetamol (acetaminophen) + codeine 
— Gabapentin works on nerve pain.
There should be no sign of pain from one dose of meds to the next. Have no patience with pain as it does hinder healing. Look for your dog to be acting their normal, perky self when pain is fully under control round the clock.


Please fill us in on the missing medication list information:

Ollie's weight?
meloxidyl started on date?: ?mgs  ?x/day   for ? days, then a test stop for: _pain / _neuro
paracetamol ?mg ?x/day
Pepcid AC?

WHY the must-have STOMACH PROTECTOR WITH Meloxidyl
Let us know when you have Pepcid AC on board, ?mgs  ?x/day
Important article to read and refresh yourself about using Pepcid AC (famotidine)  PLUS  6 Things to know about Meloxidyl (an anti-inflammatory drug) and Pepcid AC  dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/

Let us know you've got his recovery suite all set up nicely and have the tools you need for your job as care giver. Details on setting up the recovery suite, and how to carry out potty time with a sling and tips to make the STRICT rest period go smoother. The essential ROADMAP to tape on your fridge:  dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/?highlight=recovery%20suite

Let us know you are on the same page about crate rest.

The centerpiece of "DISC disease" treatment is the healing of the disc via limited movement of the back via a recovery suite. Crate rest is not your dog in a cage. It's a "recovery suite" with room service!
     100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong disc scar tissue to form.
    
STRICT means:
- no laps - no couches
- no baths - no sleeping with you
- no chiro therapy - no dragging or meandering at potty times.

Carry your dog to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very, very few limited footsteps.
       Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on!

**

We help best when we have all the facts. Could you fill us in on the med list:

Ollie's weight?
meloxidyl started on date?: ?mgs ?x/day for ? days, then a test stop for: _pain / _neuro
paracetamol ?mg ?x/day
Pepcid AC?

For how many days is he to take the Meloxidyl?

what country are you in?


Sounds like he may be in pain with the one pain med only given every 12 hrs and the vet needs your feedback to adjust meds. Pain meds stay at an effective level in the body when they are prescribed for every 8 hrs.

In what manner are the front legs affected? Can he sit up on his butt supported by his front legs. Can front legs move at all, can they move in a walking motion?

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thanks, in the UK Pepcid AC is only by vet's prescription.

See what you can do to get Pepcid AC from the vet. The information you need to present a very good case for Pepcid AC is on our website. Here is that link again:
         WHY the must-have STOMACH PROTECTOR WITH Meloxidyl
Let us know when you have Pepcid AC on board, ?mgs ?x/day
Important article to read and refresh yourself about using Pepcid AC (famotidine) PLUS 6 Things to know about Meloxidyl (an anti-inflammatory drug) and Pepcid AC dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/

You  ought to be able to phone your vet to speak with him on your concerns for a stomach protector.  Adjustment of meds by phone avoid a risk to the early healing disc with a car transport.  Vets who know IVDD, understand the need for STRICT rest.

It is important info about how long the first course of Meloxidyl is to be. Most vets start with a 7 fays course or maybe a 14-day course. Then it stops. This is stop test to find out if all the painful swelling is gone. NO PAIN = no meds at all needed. No one wants a dog to be on Meloxidy one bit past the benefit of no pain. Meloxidyl has serious side effects same as all anti-inflammatory drugs do.

Can you double check the Meloxidyl bottle for how many days? Or ask tomorrow when you present your case for Pepcid AC (famtodine) over the phone?

No dog SHOULD be on meds any time past when all pain has gone away. Meds do nothing to heal the nerves. Meds to nothing to heal the disc. Is there misinformation on social media....YES! Do all vets know IVDD....NO! This is why YOU need to have your own knowledge about IVDD.

Learning how conservative treatment work will be a huge relief to you. Not knowing stuff is so scary. And knowledge puts you in position to speak clearly and advocate for what Ollie needs.

There are four phases to healing during conservative treatment. You need a roadmap!

ROADMAP
Avoid dangerous detours with the Conservative Roadmap for your fridge.
      VIEW, DOWNLOAD and print from here: dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Roadmap-for-Fridge.pdf


NOTE: Sample partial preview image of Roadmap is below. Download from link above
**

It will take approximately 7-30 days before the anti-inflammatory Meloxidyl can get rid of all the pain from the swelling in the spinal cord. Every single vet must make a guess as to what the first course of Meloxidyl should be.... maybe a 5-day course maybe a 14-day course. The stop is for YOU and the VET to find out if all pain is really gone. IF not then the vet Rx's another course, then another test stop.
After adding up all the courses it will fall in the range of having been on Meloxidy for 7-30 days..

Please do find time to learn how all anti-inflammatory drugs work during a disc episode. It helps you discuss things with a vet. LINK on anti-inflammatories: 
dodgerslist.com/2020/04/22/healing-swelling-inflammation/

Are you able to view the links to our main Dodgerslist website on your phone? If not then I will copy it over to this Forum for you.

Hi yes I read it, he’s on just soft food at the mo, and I’m hand feeding him, he does have a little lost [loose] stools today, and wind bless him, he’s got feeling in his legs as he tried to scratch his ear today and in the garden when he goes out for a wee he’s trying to stand the. Goes into a crawl, I opened his cage today and he nearly threw himself out gave to a right fright I’m scared of him hiring himself more,

Thank you, I thought that was a good sign he turn right round and lifted his bk leg didn’t quite make it but tried.

What do you think of holistic treatment acupuncture and eventually hydrotherapy


No I Can't   Carnt get on your Facebook page either

Kerrie, with reading the Roadmap to Conservative Treatment above, you'll see the risk to the healing of going in for acupuncture or laser therapy is not worth it. Unless you want to hire a mobile vet to come to your home. Ollie is on a good path of self healing his nerves. You would not want him to have any setback. The single most important care you can give is the 100% STRICT rest in his recovery suite.

Your vet has revealed that she is very uncomfortable in her lack of knowledge of IVDD to tell you to kill your dog if in a week there is no improvement. After reading the Roadmap to Conservative Treatment above, you have the understanding that nerves can take months to heal, not one meager week! Vets who know IVDD understand Disc Disease is not fatal and that most dogs can heal their disc very nicely under conservative treatment. 

It is NOT a good idea to completely change his food to a soft one. You can tell if stomach problems are minor or changing foods or if a VERY SERIOUS issue of meloxidyl and the need to alert your vet for PEPCID AC (famotidine) now. We must to assume the worst that Meloxidyl is the cause. CALL YOUR VET and alert her of loose stool and advocate for Pepcid AC.  Neuro surgeon says it IS warranted to use a stomach protector with a NSAID!  dodgerslist.com/2020/08/14/grunting-a-sign-of-pain/

Please put Ollie back on his regular kibble. Soften his normal kibble by soaking it in water or no-salt meat broth (equal part liquid to equal part kibble). That way you are not changing his diet that can cause the same early signs of Meloxidyl damage:  nausea, not eating, loose stool, moves to vomiting, diarrhea, bleeding ulcers with red or black blood in the poop.

Ollie should eat what you usually feed him ad soften the biscuit as you described.

Nerves heal slowly but trying to stand is also a sign of nerve healing. Ollie is making progress.

Kerrie please clarify:
1. Ollie is NOT licking his front paws.
OR do you observe....

2. Ollie IS licking his front paws a lot?

Neuropathic pain
If Ollie is, indeed, doing a new thing of licking his front paws, be very watchful that it does not mushroom into dangerous biting, or chewing off his front paws.

Everyone has experienced numbness or pins and needles tingling in your legs when sitting in a bad position for too long a time.  Your dog can be feeling abnormal nerve sensations that are mild pins and needles to quite painful burning, on-fire feeling that makes them bite to stop the pain. These are abnormal signals explaining why a dog with nerve damage of knuckling under the paws can feel this neuropathic pain.  

You would need to stay on top of observing for any more signs of chewing on body parts as this can lead to death.  Immediately put a e-collar on or a lengthwise folded towel and secured closed with duct tape so Ollie can't reach his paws.  Get to a vet for a medicine that can help to control these very painful sensations.  The name of the drug is called gabapentin (for nerve pain).