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Post by Jona & Frank on Aug 9, 2020 10:56:36 GMT -7
Frank (dachshund) ☆ 1pain? no
[signs of pain!] Yes he is reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow, ginger movements Yes yelping when picked up or moved Yes he can find a comfortable position Yes Arched back. Yes head held high or nose to the ground He is his normal self.
☆ 2 20 pounds A.. Prednisone 5mg 2x daily, Tramadol half of a 50 mg tablet every 8 hours. B.. August 8,2020 1 steroid shot.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 20 lbs Name of steroid shot on 8/8 Prednisone as of 8/8: 5mgs 2x/day for 14 days, then 8/22 test taper for _pain/_neuro Tramadol 25mgs 3x/day needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/ pred]
C.. PEPCID AC: My dog has no health issues other than a fatty lump on his chest, should I get Pepcid.
☆ 3 -- Yes eating and drinking like normal -- Has not had a bowel movement since injury august 8 ☆ 4 What breed? What is your dog’s name? Your name, too? Dachshund, Frank, Jona. ☆ 5 Did you specifically get a diagnosis of IVDD, aka: a disc problem, a disc herniation, a bulging disc, slipped disc? No diagnosis --general DVM
☆ 6 CONSERVATIVE TREATMENT august 8,2020 ☆ 7 no wet bedding but we have not noticed him pee ☆ 8 He can move both legs, wag tail but if very reluctant to stand with back legs. He favors his right leg mid leg joint and when we apply pressure to that point he shows some signs of pain. He will sit up but not stand on his back legs.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 9, 2020 12:23:24 GMT -7
Welcome, Jona! We are glad you have joined us on the forum. Just to be sure let us know if currently Frank has all pain fully controlled dose to dose every 8 hrs when tramadol is given. That means he does not yelp when picked up. That means he does not yelp when picked up and he is not reluctant to move. You are reporting signs of pain but yet right he is in no pain. Know the signs of pain and have no patience at all with pain.If he is suffering with any pain, then that means the pain meds are not yet correct. Be knowledgeable to report pain at once and know what to expect with prescriptions. Briefly: There are three sources of pain with disc episodes -- tramadol for the general analgesic -- methocarbamol for muscle contraction pain -- gabapentin for nerve pain. Be fully up to speed on the role of pain meds used with a disc episode: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/30/pain-medications/AVOID pressing on on any part of Frank — toes, hips, joints. You can observe pain w/o touching. SIGNS OF PAIN: ◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground. ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ◻︎ not their normal perky selves Pepcid AC is a "yes" whenever on Prednisone and has no health issues confirmed by your vet. Know the three reasons for stomach protection and keep your vet in the loop if giving Pepcid. The full information: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/06/stomach-protection/Bookmark a thread to receive an email alert when someone has replied Go to the CONSERVATIVE Board 1. Look for your dog's thread and checkmark it. 2. Look for the white ACTIONS button towards top. 3. Select “Notification Options" from the pull down menu — check mark “NEW POST” change from never to INSTANT email — press the SAVE button. Click the “x” to close the window 4. Next choose the “Bookmark” See the tiny book symbol now! **
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Post by Jona & Frank on Aug 9, 2020 12:40:12 GMT -7
He is on the 5mg prednisone 2x/daily for 14 days. I will call 8/10/2020 to ask the name of steroid. Since Frank was injured later in the day we had to go to a vetIQ to get pain relief/ treatment. We have made an appointment with our regular vet 8/11/2020 and will pick us Pepcid ac. Thank you for the reply
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 9, 2020 14:57:42 GMT -7
Jona, important question:
Is Frank free of pain currently round the clock, dose right up to the next dose? You've written contradictory sentences so we are very confused about Frank's pain
Pain in control means he does not yelp when picked up. He is not reluctant to move.
If he is suffering with any pain, then that means the pain meds are not yet correct.
Do not wait for Tues 8/11 to get Frank help if he is suffering with pain!
"had to go to a vetIQ" Whatever IQ stands for (ER?) make a phone call into them. Frank has a file there and any vet can read the file and has authority to prescribe and adjust those pain meds over the phone ---- tramadol 25mgs 3x/day for a 20 lbs dog is under mediated. You'd be looking for an adjustment more approaching 50mgs 3x/day. The vet is responsibile for prescribing, your job is to report and advocate for pain relief.....not to self prescribe for your dog. --- gabapentin for nerve pain also 3x/day --- methocarbamol for the pain of muscle contraction also 3x/day
VEHICLE TRANSPORTS Any time out of the crate is a dangerous time for a dog going through an IVDD disc episode. Transport to a vet is risky as there is a chance of too much movement. Most vets who understand how strict the crate rest must be will understand that it's too much of a risk to bring the dog in to the office for things like med adjustments that can be done over the phone.
Vet visits during a disc episode should be kept to the only urgently needed ones. Such as the first time a vet is on this case of a disc episode, they must examine before prescribing.
With urgent vet visits, secure the crate in your vehicle. Transport carefully using a crate padded out with rolled up towels on either side of the dog to prevent movement or jarring the spine when braking or turning corners.
MONITOR & report PAIN ◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground. ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ◻︎ not their normal perky selves
MONITOR and report NEURO FUNCTION diminishment As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment.
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Post by Jona & Frank on Aug 9, 2020 16:14:56 GMT -7
Yes he does have pain and yelps when trying to move but only when his right leg is bothered or touched. It seems to be the main thing causing him pain (right hind leg).
I’m not sure if this is ivdd or a broken leg. so I should call the doctor and adjust pain medicine to tramadol 50mg 3x/day? I will also get him to a doctor first thing 8/10. We live in a small town so we have no vets and all the ones close are closed on Sunday 8/9.
He will try to stand up and will kick his legs but does not want his right leg to touch anything. I also catch him trying to roll over. He is on strict crate rest 24/7 but do I need to worry about him moving around often in his crate? When he’s in his crate he tries to roll on his back and he gets up and rotates himself.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 9, 2020 17:08:17 GMT -7
What makes you think he has a broken leg? Has he fallen off a bed, jumped down from the couch and landed wrong?
If this is a disc episode, then the pain is up in the spinal cord where a bad disc is pressing on the spinal cord. Pressure to nerves causes pain at that location. Pain can also extend down those nerves going to the limb so that the dog is painful in his legs.
What did the vet explain about the symptoms he saw on 8/8 and the reason for the steroid shot and steroid pills to take at home? Did he mention any terms such as pinched nerve, compressed nerves?
If your vet gave you a tramadol range for mgs or for frequency, then you may adjust as per that Rx. Otherwise your job is be the eyes and ears for the vet and report things you observe and advocate for adjusting meds to ensure no pain surfaces dose to dose, round the clock.
Let us know what the vet says over the phone to get those meds right for Frank's needs. Avoid unneccesary vehicle transports that can cause too much movement if there is something that can typcially be handled over the phone (such as adjusting meds).
What does IQ stand for? "had to go to a vetIQ"
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Post by Jona & Frank on Aug 9, 2020 17:52:20 GMT -7
Yes he fell of a seat.
the vet did not say anything diagnosis wise. He just gave us medication, said “this will help” and sent us on our way. Vet IQ stands for ‘‘vet intelligence” It is a clinic.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 9, 2020 19:38:01 GMT -7
Can you call your own regular vet's office to see if you can reschedule an appt for Monday 8/10. Tell them Frank fell and is in pain. It is quite possible for a fall to kinda be the last straw for a prematurely aging disc. As discs age abnormally early at the age of 1 year old with dogs born with IVDD, the discs become less and less flexible. Not only can a fall, but other activities like running zig zag, turning too fast, can cause the boney back to press on a disc that is no longer able to bounce back into a normal shape. Instead, the disc can tear, bulge out of shape. It is quite a painful thing when anything presses on the spinal cord So you and here on the Forum really need to know what is going on with Frank, so he can receive proper care. Being in pain is not proper care. He needs to get check out if he has broken a leg. He needs better prescribing of pain medications. We will be anxiously awaiting to hear if you have gotten him into see his vet and gotten the right help on Monday morning.
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