Kayla 's Pax 8/6 Conservative NECK

Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name is Marjorie - what's yours?

With a disc problem, it takes 8 weeks of strict crate rest to let the disc heal. Otherwise the weak scar tissue forming can easily be re-torn and the pain, more vet bills, the cycle of healing has to start all over again. Since your crate rest started on August 6th, Pax will need to be on 100% strict crate rest for a full 8 weeks from that date. You can't count the first week when his movements were being limited, only the time he's on strict crate rest. Strict crate rest means only to be carried in and out to potty with very few steps being taken during potty time. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM).

Can you give us a bit more in essential information about your dog:

-- Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy? There is usually quite a bit of pain involved with IVDD and I don't see any mention of pain medication. If you see any signs of pain, you must speak to your vet about it. Healing can't start until the pain is under control, with no signs of pain between doses of pain medication.

-- Please include the must have stomach protector such as Pepcid AC … 5mg 30 mins prior to the Rimadyl, to protect Pax's tummy. Please ask your vet if there are any health reasons why Pax shouldn't take Pepcid AC. Tell him you want to be proactive about protecting him from the side effects of the Rimadyl.

-- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?

-- Can Pax still wag his tail when spoken to in a happy voice.

-- Eating and drinking OK?

-- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

Owners can be instrumental in helping their dogs recover. It takes being a reader as not all vets know this disease…but you certainly can know just one disease. So that you can have an informed discussion with the vet, please read up on the two pertinent pages:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm

The anti-inflammatory will help to bring the swelling of the disc down. It's the disc pressing into the spine that is causing nerve damage, which you see as Pax's loss of control in his hind legs. The crate acts as a cast for his back. Too much movement will tear the disc more, resulting in more nerve damage. Please read this webpage carefully so you'll understand all the ins and outs of crate rest and how to set up a recovery suite for Pax:
dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm

Try to stay positive. Tell Pax that he's getting better every day. And believe that he will, because with the proper care, he can improve. Nerves take a long time to heal so you may not see any improvement in weeks or months. We know that the disc heals in 8 weeks but there's no way of knowing if or when the nerves will heal. Time will tell. Hang in there. You've done the right thing getting him into that crate. And laser therapy can be very helpful in managing pain and in giving the nerves a jump start in healing.

One last thing - I know I'm throwing a lot of information at you! You mentioned being concerned about him staying calm in the crate while you're away from home. To calm Sam in the crate, it would be a good idea to cover the top with a towel. That should discourage the desire to stand up on his hind legs and should mellow him. It also creates a den like feeling that dogs love.

Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog.

Farnum's Comfort Zone with D.A.P. www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html [pheromone diffuser] with one oral calmer from below:

Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php [Composure] 3) Rescue Remedy is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation www.bachrescueremedypet.com

Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog.

Please keep us updated.

Hi paxmom, I'm sorry to hear Pax is one of the many as is my Fred. Fred just got done with 8 weeks and it was well worth it!

Here are somethings iI found helpful with crate rest...POTTY PEN, POTTY PEN..made an 8 by 8 area with garden fence..this made potty more controlable..a lot more..once Fredwas pain free he thought he was better even though he was limping..

We put crate on a ryder wagon so he would be up higher and we could wheel him from room to room..

At bed time wheeled him next to bed and covered it..he whined..a lot..but he was close enough that I could put my hand in crate.

Finally...Fred used to go EVERYWHERE with me..it stressed him pitied to be in the same room and not next to me..the yapping was non stop..the solution...at first I hid in the bathroom..when he figured this out ..I hid in garage..and finally I would leave sometimes or give him a sedative if he stressed way too much.

Oh and using a scarf to help support him while going potty. Fred never lost movement of his legs but had trouble keeping himself up and wobbly legs.

I can't stress how important STRICT crate rest is no matter how hard it gets.

Hang in there pax man mom!!! You are not alone and can do this!

Hi, Marjorie, Jen, Stacy, and Billy's Mom! I'm Kayla, and I am so thankful for all your kind words of encouragement! I was really upset about how fast this was happening, and it is a difficult adjustment for Pax, his sister Grace, and I--BUT I know we can get through this. All of your advice has been instrumental in helping me make our "new life" easier and more comfortable. 

In response to Marjorie's request:
During the first two weeks, Pax was in a lot of pain. He shivered after going outside to potty and occasionally would shiver for seemingly no reason. He would yelp when being picked up, and I did my best to follow the instructions for how to pick up him with the most support, but it seemed like no matter what I did or how careful, he still yelped. However, since the strict bedrest and laser treatments have begun (so, for about 3 days now), he has not yelped when being picked up, and does not shiver or act scared. Should I ask about adding a pain medicine? My vet spoke of the Rimadyl as though it would help alleviate his pain. Ya know, he pants a good bit, but I feel that its his anxiety about being in the crate-- might this be an indicator of pain?

I purchased this today and began giving him the 5mg Pepcid AC prior to the Rimadyl. It is upsetting that vets aren't more aware of this potential side effect, as he mentioned nothing of it to me. THANK YOU SO MUCH for this advice!!! (Pax says THANK YOU, too!)

Pax can sniff around and use the bathroom. It is apparent it is uncomfortable for him but he usually has no trouble doing his business outside. I also set up the POTTY PEN (THANK YOU, Stacy!!) today and it seems to keep him focused. I created the figure-8 sling out of two leashes, and wrapped the figure-8 in terry cloth for his comfort. I am hopeful potty time will go much smoother now. 

YES! Thank goodness! He still wags that happy little tail pretty often. His strength and positivity are so admirable! 

Oh yes, he is always hungry. I have started mixing in the green beans with his regular food to help cut back on calories given the lack of activity. Any other suggestions? I would like to see him drinking more water, but I do keep it in his cage and encourage it as often as i can. 

Poops OK. Firm, normal color. What does blood in the stool indicate? Is this a side effect of the medicine?

I definitely want to ask about the oral calmers when I see my vet tomorrow morning. I have childrens benadryl on hand (as Pax sometimes has fits with allergies- rarely though), so maybe I can start to give him that. I have created the den like crate for him, and placed his crate on a moving dolly (secured with bungee straps) to move him from room to room- great suggestion. His nickname (well, one of them) is "Shadow," as he is always right beside me. So the crate-on-wheels is awesome! Thank you all!! The literature on the website is so helpful, and I know I will continue to revisit it. Your support means so much to Pax and I!

Kayla, the panting could be caused by the Rimadyl. You can set up a small fan, not directly on him, that might help with that. The side effect is usually temporary.

I've been reading up on some of the medications used in treating IVDD and yes, I did see that Rimadyl is also used for pain. Mostly I see Rimadyl being used as an anti-inflammatory with a pain medication like Tramadol added. If you feel that Pax's pain has resolved, then that's great. But keep an eye out for any shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, tight tense tummy, or head held to the ground or up in the air. If you see any signs of pain like that, please speak to your vet about adding a pain medication.

Anti-inflammatories can cause ulcers, hence the need to be aware of any bowel changes, such as diarrhea or bloody stools. But you're being proactive in helping to prevent this side effect by giving Pax the Pepcid AC.

You've really done your homework and have taken some very positive steps towards Pax's recovery. Pax is a lucky fellow! Please keep us updated.

Thank you all! Your support means more than you know! This morning we were back at the vet for another laser treatment. For the first time in a couple of days, it was apparent to me that Pax was still in pain- he yelped when I picked him up this morning. So, I talked to the vet about it, and we have added Tramadol. He has been doing much better outside--does not seem to struggle as much to keep his legs under him to use the bathroom. One thing I am starting to really get concerned about is his panting. He pants A LOT. almost constantly. I have looked into the side effects, but it seems panting is rarely mentioned. Could this be stress from being crated (i know he HATES being in there, but I've made it comfortable and talk to him in happy voice so he knows he isn't in trouble)? I am worried the panting means something like pain, too much medicine, interactions from the different medicines, etc. I thought the Tramadol would help to calm him a bit and make it easier to be still in his crate, but he still seems to fuss (and pant).

Kayla, how is Pax this morning? How is the panting.

I stand corrected and I appreciate Marjorie pointing out that panting CAN be a side effect of a NSAID. www.1800petmeds.com/Rimadyl-prod10261.html does include panting as an overdose symptom Metabolism rates can be different for each dog in how long it takes the body to process the Rimadyl. If he is still panting, I would seek vet assistance today.

This is more information from the FDA about NSAIDs and what to observe for:
www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htm

We look to hear from you about Pax today on the panting and if Tramadol is controlling pain.

Pax will get used to the crate. You need to ignore when he is seeking attention while in there and praise when he is quiet. I know its tough. It's all worth it on the end.
I know its an odd question but do you sleep in bed alone? If so if your bed is big enough you could put his crate up there with you. I've done that it may bring him more comfort.

Oh Janet, I am so glad you have found this site! It has been instrumental in helping me learn how to provide the care that Pax needs. And you are so right, he had gotten used to the crate. The past few days he has started playing with his toys in there and is far less fidgety than he was at first. Jochs311, thank you for the tip about the crate on the bed-- love this idea! Having his crate on the bed at night has helped us both sleep better- he doesn't whine and I feel better about him being closer He is doing so much better and seems to have gained full control back of his hind legs. We are still sticking with the strict crate rest for 6-7 more weeks, but I have already seen so much improvement! We have backed off the laser treatments to about once a week, maybe twice. Still on same meds, although he is becoming very stubborn about taking them! I'm having to rethink my tactics, because the peanut butter is not working anymore. Thank you all for the support and advice (Pax says thank you, too!)!

Hi Kayla, I'm Sabrina. So glad to hear that Pax is improving!

If Pax isn't fond of bananas or microwaved sweet potatoes, do you know if he likes sardines? (Packed in water with no salt added). Charley loves sardines, and I squish a bit of sardine around his pills to form little balls - Charley swallows them without knowing there's a pill inside! (I don't know if you have an Aldi grocery store near you, but the one near us has tins of sardines in water (no salt) for a dollar.) I find it very gross to handle sardines - especially squishing bits around pills! - but it's so much easier to get the meds into Charley this way.

Keep up the great work with the crate rest! Pax is so lucky to have you!

))Hugs!((
- Sabrina

Hi Kayla,

Sorry to hear Pax is having such a hard time.  What are his current medications, the dosages and frequencies, please?

I think I would stop with the Laser treatments if they don't seem to be helping.  Consult with Pax's Vet to let him know an adjustment to pain and anti inflammatories, to ease his pain and swelling is necessary.   What he is currently on, Rimadyl is not working to get the swelling down on the disc pressing on the spinal cord. That is why he is having problems walking..   If he is changed to steroids for example be sure he has two stomach protectors on board.. Pepcid AC and Sucralfate because changing between NSAIDS and Steroids quickly is very hard on the stomach and GI tract.. With pain that can't be controlled surgery is usually the next step but check with your vet and see what other alternatives they come up with..






 

Kayla, let us know what meds Pax is now on (dose in mg and frequency). He just needs more time on the anti-inflammatory. The vet stops his meds to test the waters to see how swelling resolution is going. The answer was Pax still needs his anti-inflammatory and pain meds for a bit longer.

Kayla,

Glad to hear Pax is doing better.. The problem with Tramadol is that it is extremely bitter and tastes horrible and that is why Pax is fighting it.  If you can hide in in something very strong but good tasting. A favorite food that he likes to gulp for example so he won't bite into it and get the horrible taste.. Make sure there is no Tramadol traces on your fingers for him to get a taste of...  Hope this will help you.. 

You are right that throwing in the towel is not the right answer for Pax. Treating him is and you are doing so well with him. The fight is not yet over and I agree that finding a vet that is experienced in IVDD is your answer.  Hope this article that has links for searching for a IVDD vet in your area helps:  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm


Best of luck with the yard sale!  Fingers crossed for you and Pax!

Thank you both! I have ordered several brochures to pass out at my vet and local vet offices, as well as business cards for whenever I run into dachshund parents. Pax is getting better everyday, and I truly owe it to the supportive advice and encouragement I have received from you all. We are still taking rimadyl (25mg) twice a day, but alternating the other pain meds only as needed. So, a lot less medicine than he was taking just two weeks ago. More good news! Yesterday and today Pax started running outside trying to get me to play with him. It was precious! I only allowed it because it was his potty time and I was just so happy to see him feel good enough to want to run. I am still keeping him on crate rest, so he doesn't get to run and play like he wants to, but he is starting to get a little more play time. He is feeling noticeably better every day!