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Post by Brett & Chester on Jul 15, 2020 13:45:06 GMT -7
[Original Subject Chester 8lb Male Chihuahua IVDD Surgery was peeing now can't]
On 7/9 @ 11am I (Brett) heard Chester (best friend) let out a yelp in pain as he was napping. He then couldn't get comfortable, was shaking, had an arched back like a rainbow, couldn't use hind legs, & wouldn't move at all when placed on the grass to go potty.
Took to vet at 4:30pm & recommended Univ of Kansas Vet Hospital as was not getting a pain response in hind legs. Was given 4mg Dexamethasone NaPhos Injection. Drove there & was admitted 8:00pm 7/9/20.
7/10 Surgeon called & considered either a stroke or IVDD cause. Completed 3 hr MRI & confirmed compressed discs T3-L3 & surgery completed by 3pm.
Little food eaten while staying there. IV fluids given & urinary catheter. Was having normal bowel movements.
Arrived home 7/12 8pm & prescribed 7.5mg codeine pills 1 every 8 hrs for 7 days. Strict crate rest since. He has urinated & defecated twice daily around 4am & 4pm 7/13 & 7/14. On 7/15 4am he signals me he wants to potty & we go outside to his 6'x6' pen & he tries to potty many times while in a sling or me holding his hindquarters, but no urine or defection.
I call ER Vet at 5:30am & proceed there. On the way there he pants for 10 min & then urinates in his crate uncontrollably & defecates about 10% of his usual. He has shown no interest in food or water since 5:30am. They direct me to contact my usual vet once they open. I call them & he recommends giving him several opportunities to potty. He defecates at 145pm his usual 100% amount, but no urine. Said to brown hamburger & boil rice & feed in 1 burger: 2 rice ratio if shows no food interest. Agreed to see him at 5pm if still not urinating or drinking.
KSU said contact Vet if has not urinated for 16 hrs & Vet said give it another 24 hrs before bringing him in. I think something is needed like bladder expression, UTI, or unknown. I do not want him in pain like he was early this AM.
Should I contact a diff vet in town? Should I wait 24 hrs? I've watched tons of Youtube vids on male bladder expression, but see no difference in belly size & cannot feel bladder. I feel he is so small, that it is difficult.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 15, 2020 14:16:21 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Brett. We are so glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you. It is important to know that disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions for your dog? Re-think things: dodgerslist.com/2020/04/18/hope-quality-life/Usually when dogs becomes paralyzed they also loose bladder control. This seems to be the case with Chester. We know that a dog has bladder control when they can sniff and pee. Take Chester to a previous potty spot like you have been doing. If he can sniff and then release urine he has bladder control. A message has traveled from the brain to the bladder signaling the bladder to release urine. Anything else, like wet bedding in the crate is usually overflow. This will happen by reflex when the bladder gets overly stretched. Dogs without bladder control must be expressed. Learning to express is tricky but necessary for the health of Chester's bladder. Stale urine in the bladder can lead to UTIs. You will need a hands-on lesson from your vet on how to do this. Then just practice. You will know that you have it right when you get a steady stream and there is no wet bedding. We have information on how to express the bladder on the page below. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmDo not be discouraged if you do not get it right at first. It is a skill and must be practiced.
Chester is showing signs of pain and the vet should be notified as soon as possible. His pain meds must be adjusted. I would not want Chester to be in pain for 24 hours. For him that would seem a lifetime. Chester should be pain free while recovering. Vets have many ways to address pain. Codeine might not be the best choice. We have seen tramadol provide relief to dogs on this site but there other pain relievers as well.
"It should be noted that both morphine and codeine appear to have poor oral bioavailability in dogs and cats, which makes their efficacy questionable. Anecdotal reports of pain relief exist, but the results tend to be inconsistent."
Post-op crate rest is to allow the surgical sites to heal. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT for a post-op dog means: ◼︎no laps
◼︎no couches
◼︎no baths
◼︎no sleeping with you
◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. Post-op dogs will follow surgeon's directives for PT during post-op rest as the offending disc material was surgically removed How many weeks did your surgeon direct for post-op rest? What instructions were given for PT?
Is Chester taking any meds besides the codeine? If so please let us know the dose and frequency. How much does he weigh?
Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn. ﹆1 Remove yourself from the dark scary unknown. Be in command of the 4 phases of healing, what to expect with pain, with swelling, disc and nerve healing. Get up to speed ﹆2 Two FRIDGE FLYERs to print out a) Help all of your family recognize emergency signs and action to take. dodgerslist.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/emergency-fridge-flyer2.pdf﹆3 Excellent IVDD video playlist: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGTcmjenJIkUNy9ke7IvPlFIMKFfjBSen ﹆4 At the MAIN WEBSITE, use the orange SEARCH bar feature to easily access the treasure trove of more IVDD information. You will feel empowered to help your dog! |
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Post by Brett & Chester on Jul 15, 2020 14:49:42 GMT -7
Chester is 8lb. He is on 8 weeks strict crating. No PT during or after. I inquired about this before surgery & they said there has been no difference between receiving PT & NOT receiving PT. Only time recovers. He does not appear to be in any pain, EXCEPT when he had the urge to potty, but couldn't. He is only on 7.5mg codeine every 8 hrs. Due to covid you can't be seen indoors or go inside or be taught bladder expression.
I am going to feed him the rice/burger IF he refused to eat his regular Purina One chicken/rice dry food as it seems the rice will help hydrate him.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jul 15, 2020 15:09:15 GMT -7
I am glad to hear that Chester is only in pain when he tries to potty. Sometimes a UTI causes pain when urinating. Dogs that cannot empty their bladders sometimes develop UTIs
Have you been able to get a hands-on less on expressing? That may make all the difference in learning to express. I needed more than one lesson before I was able to express my dog after his surgery.
To encourage him to drink try some tasty lo-cal, no-salt meat broth.
Making broth yourself is better nutrition than the store bought which very likely contains onion. Onions and Dogs: A Lethal Combination
---Simply boil up a hamburger patty or a bone with meat on it in about a cup of water, cool & toss the fat disc, trash all cooked bones.
--- Boil some chicken parts. cool, de-skin/de-bone and toss the fat disc at the top.
--- Add 1-2 teaspoons of the meat on top of his kibble as added tastiness and nutrition without getting the kibble formula out of balance (such as calcium to phosphorus ratios, etc.)
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Post by Brett & Chester on Jul 15, 2020 17:04:44 GMT -7
I took him to the Vet & he expressed his bladder. He said his bladder is smaller than a golf ball. Due to covid they will not approach customers. You have to leave the dog at the door and enter your car. I fed him watery rice & drained hamburger. He loved it. I only gave half as rice in my stomach feels like it expands, so will give him other half in a couple hours after we try to potty again. |
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Post by Brett & Chester on Jul 18, 2020 18:32:43 GMT -7
He ate his usual food & drank water, but indicated wanted to potty, but couldn't at 11pm 7/15.
Took him out 8am 7/16 & he urinated!!! 2pm defecation.
He indicated at 8am 7/17 & defecated. Urination 15 min later. He really didn't want to go back in his crate after defecation & no urination. Kept walking away with help, so he must feel the urge. I'm learning there is a lot of patience.
7/18 poop & pee 230am & peed 830am. He started moving his hindquarters like riding a bicycle. He walked 6 feet in his own! He can crawl into his box from his fenced in yard & then from it into his kennel. Both are lined with a polyester blanket & towels around with food & water bowls.
I know he still needs 8 weeks strict crate rest, but should I let him walk around in his 6*6 pen in the sling? He is wagging his tail & drank some water finally as he hadn't prior for 2 days which was why he was on watery rice & hamburger diet.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 18, 2020 20:38:30 GMT -7
Brett, was it the KSU surgeon who said the post-op rest period would be for 8 weeks? Would you tell us more about the ability to walk 6 feet on 7/18. Was he walking, wobbly walking with all four legs? Did you use a sling as back up to prevent his butt from falling over? As long as you are keeping his back end from twisting, falling over, Chester's surgical sites will be safe for him to walk as needed to take care of potty business. Tell us more about the box he crawls into from the fenced in yard. - What is the box used for? - Is the fenced in yard the 6x6 pen? -Do you carry him in your arms to the potty place? Supporting both ends and keeping his back horizontal to the ground?  Very glad to hear Chester is back to eating his normal food! Are his poops a bit hard, constipated why he us having trouble pooping? The the better idea than rice (low nutrient, fermentable in the colon is nutrient rich plain pureed canned pumpkin to counteract the constipation codeine can cause. NOTE: alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potatoe. --To loosen the stool, add equal parts of nutritious homage broth to kibble meal and soak overnight. At mealtime add one teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin for every 10 lbs of body weight ONCE a day. |
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Post by Brett & Chester on Jul 18, 2020 21:00:16 GMT -7
Yes, the KSU surgeon said the post-op rest period would be for 8 weeks.
Would you tell us more about the ability to walk 6 feet on 7/18.
It is sometimes in a sling, sometimes both my hands holding his rear up. Sometimes he is moving his legs in the air like bicycling as I'm holding them up. Sometimes wobbly walking and I just have a hand on each side of his butt to prevent falling.
Is the fenced in yard the 6x6 pen?
Yes.
Tell us more about the box he crawls into.
It is a 24*24" cardboard box with one side cut out lined with a blanket, towels, with water/food in order to transport him to my car or inside/outside to his 6*6 potty pen.
-Do you carry him in your arms to the potty place?
I use the box to transport him.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 19, 2020 4:42:33 GMT -7
Fabulous to hear how well Chester is doing so soon after surgery, Brett! And that he has bladder control. All wonderful signs for more healing ahead. Rather than a box that has an opening on the side, the best way to transport Chester to and from the potty area and the car is to carry him, keeping his back horizontal to the ground. More info on that with photos and video to show how to securely hold him on this page: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/20/back-support/Use a sling to help him walk during potty until you're sure he's healed enough that his butt won't fall to the side. Chester should not be dragging himself while on post-op crate rest. Carry him or sling walk him.  The kennel that he's in should only be large enough for him to stand up, turn around and lie with his legs comfortably extended, only out of the crate for potty and/or PT. Here's more on how to set up a recovery suite that might have some helpful tips for you: dodgerslist.com/2020/05/14/strict-rest-recovery-process/Usually a dog that can wobbly walk or walk with a sling is allowed some walking as PT following surgery. Walking is a very good PT and will help strengthen Chester's legs. It would be a good idea to check with the surgeon as to how much walking is allowed at this time. Please do continue to keep us updated. Healing prayers for Chester. |
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Post by Brett & Chester on Jul 20, 2020 1:21:43 GMT -7
I feel like I'm going backwards now. 7/18 he pooped/peed 230am & peed 830am, but then still has no interest in drinking any water or his usual dog food since being put on watery rice & burger. He also developed a cough/like he's going to puke that he does several times a day.
He hadn't peed so I took to a different vet 7/19 & they expressed bladder 1pm. Got little pee expressed. No smell or blood. They don't seem interested in checking for UTI just like my normal vet.
Took outside multiple times & no potty. No poop. No pee.
He has been licking his penis for about 6 hours straight. I took pics of it. He was panting. No erection. Lethargic all day.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 20, 2020 5:07:18 GMT -7
UTIs do not always show symptoms, such as smelly or bloody urine. I would insist on a urinalysis.
I do hope that a vet can get to the bottom of what's troubling Chester today. Please keep us updated.
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Post by Brett & Chester on Jul 20, 2020 15:47:35 GMT -7
Took Chester to usual vet 430pm. I asked if he needed to be tested for UTI. He expressed bowels (62 hrs worth) & urine (28 hrs). Said got a moderate amount of urine & after expressing bowels then more came out on its own.
Once I got him home he ate his normal solid food. The 2nd vet called & recommended laxatives while I was waiting on vet #1, but hasn't called back with a Rx or pickup time. I'll give it 24 hrs to decide what to do.
Vet #1 said when I was driving him to ER Vet perhaps his bladder & colon stretched then released once full & therefore he has less control over them temporarily until they return to normal size.
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Post by Brett & Chester on Aug 8, 2020 17:26:12 GMT -7
A lot has happened. Day 9 stood up. Day 11 post surgery he moved his right rear leg to scratch behind his ear. Later that day he moved his rear legs to get belly rubs. I took him to the vet 14 days straight on day 9-22 post surgery to get his bladder expressed & twice for bowels.
Day 15 I started giving him 1/2 teaspoon of pumpkin puree each day as his stools were definitely harder/drier than before IVDD. Day 16 the vet prescribed Prozasin 2mg twice a day for 7 days. I saw no difference as Chester would always indicate needing to potty, but we could be outside for 1-5 hours before he could start.
Day 18 he did start urinating twice a day, but again it would take hours to start.
Day 28 he finally went outside & went #1 & #2 right away. 3x a day pee & poop twice a day which is his usual schedule. I still need to lift his rear so it isn't touching the ground, but he had finally been going the last 48 hours on his own & in control. This is such a relief. It's been very frustrating with many long nights & frequent trips unfruitful trips outside.
He has finally been walking on his paws not folded over too, playing more, being affectionate, grooming, napping, etc like he used to. He was so proud he could potty when he wanted to. His appetite has returned from eating about 1/2 his usual to 3/4 his normal all in the last 48 hrs.
I write this more to give others hope. It's a long journey, but worth it. I hope the next post has more good news.
I highly encourage others to use Google calendar or something to document their potty times as my sleep deprived memory wouldn't have been able to keep track.
I also gathered materials for building a 8' wood ramp lined with rubber grip shelf liner from Dollar tree to the backyard & used wire shelving covered in carpet secured by zip ties for a couch ramp. Furniture blockers are taped flat cardboard boxes in front & sides of couch and in front of lazyboy chairs.
I also recommend you always have their kennel with a polyester blanket & towel for napping/darkness & a minimum of another clean set of bedding ready to go. Several times he soiled one set & I moved him into his box for him to soil that too. Luckily I have a dozen towels ready with no scent wet wipes.
Not all of these suggestions will work for all size dogs, but may help with others. Also I should now be able to look over his surgery bill from 7/9/20. It was 72 hrs there & possibly 4 calendar days of billing. I'll note which vertebrae later. Manhattan, KS @ the Vet School. Totaled $2950.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 8, 2020 18:35:59 GMT -7
Brett, it is very good to hear from you. What a wonderful update about now not knuckling under of his paws and regular potty habits of peeing on his own in a timely manner! Wow! Nice tips on how you are managing his recovery suite and ramps and furniture blockers. Did the neuro change his 8 weeks of post op rest to a shorter time? Or is Chester still on wait til a 9/4 graduation day to begin a slow integration back to family life? We have a directory where you can share surgical info and costs to help other pet parents.. Here is where you can post your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/13/member-reported-surgery-costs-recommendationsState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: |
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Post by Brett & Chester on Sept 9, 2020 14:26:02 GMT -7
No issues so far. Plays fetch. Four 25 min walks a day. I don't let him jump. Has trouble finding his feet on tile or slick flooring, but that's to be expected. Installed rugs. Will keep the fetch light/moderate through end of year.  |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 9, 2020 16:09:28 GMT -7
Brett, good to hear Chester continues on a good path of neuro healing. With time the nerve damage has a good chance to self repair so that smooth flooring is will not be a problem. Wishing many happy years ahead with Chester by your side. Take a look at our after graduation page. Much good information in living and having fun with your IVDD Chester. Check it out: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips/ |
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