|
|
Post by Sue Laing on Jun 23, 2020 20:09:31 GMT -7
Post-myelogram holding left rear leg up
Our 4 year old Doxie had a myelogram [6/18] last Thursday. Vet said it may take 2 days to walk since the test causes spinal pain. It’s been over 5 days and she doesn’t want to walk and her left rear leg just isn’t working much. Wobbly. Saw vet [6/21] on Sunday and he said that she’s ok it is just taking longer than usual to get back to normal. 2 discs were not in great shape but didn’t need surgery according to the vet. Is this all normal?
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 23, 2020 20:25:35 GMT -7
Susan, we can figure out a solution, maybe re-registering with a different email. Here are the steps illustrated so you can be prepared to write things down if needed to kept: www.dodgerslist.com/forumads/RegisterFORUM/register.htmWhat is your dog's name?What are the names of all meds she is on?For each med how many mgs is each dose? How many times a day do you give?What kind of vet did the myelogram: family DVM vet, a DVM ER vet? a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho ACVS surgeon?Vets diagnose by rating the top 3-4 diseases it could be. What did these vets rank as the number one likely disease your dog has currently?
Why did seek a vet visit? What did you observe regarding pain? Regarding neuro diminishment?Anything else you can explain helps us get the big picture in order to make useful comments. GENERAL QUESTIONSany SIGNS OF PAIN ? ◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground. ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ not their normal perky interested in life selves + pain from neck disc: ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ❖2 How much does your dog weigh? ❖3 GI Tract problems? —Eating and drinking OK? No nausea/not eating, no vomit? —Poops OK? Normal firmness & color -no dark black or bright red blood indicating bleeding ulcers? No diarrhea? ❖4 Are you currently doing 100% STRICT rest? The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. --- Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy "whys": __ www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best at home via a mobile vet. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. Does she knuckle under her paws, not able to place them correctly on the ground? |
|
|
|
Post by Susan Laing on Jun 25, 2020 16:32:59 GMT -7
Holly Jolly is 4 years old. Weighs 11 lb. Meds:
Rimadyl & Pednisone DEADLY together.
STOP the RIMADYL!
Rimadyl - 12.5 mg twice a day,
Prednisone - 2.5 mg twice a day since June 20.
Myelogram was June 27 [? today is Je 25]. Vet is Brian Ward, DVM, post doctoral residency training program in small animal surgery. He does orthopedic, IVDD, arthroscopic, joint replacement, dysplasia, cranial cruciate ligament, and soft tissue and oncologic surgeries. He diagnosed thoracic and lumbar bulging from a myelogram. Holly is walking a little better today after refusing to stand or walk much prior to today. She still favors her left rear leg as it appears weak and wobbly when she tries to bear weight on that leg.
Eating, peeing and pooping ok. The vet gave us no pre- op, we thought it was going to be an mri. He gave no post procedure advice or orders or reports other than the two discs were not great. We didn't know she wasn't going to be able to walk for a couple days or anything else. He didn't order crate rest. She is sleeping in a crate now, though, at night. We have an appointment with a MedVet neurologist who operated on Brutus' back in 2018 and he is fine now. We were told to try Ward since it wouldn't be as expensive as MedVet. Should we keep her on strict crate rest for a couple of weeks? What do you know about the aftermath of myelograms? Thank you for all your help.
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 25, 2020 17:21:42 GMT -7
If you are giving Rimadyl with Prednisone STOP the RIMADYL at once. The combo of these two anti-inflammatory drugs IS DEADLY! Susan please use dates with the Rimadyl What date did it begin? It it being used with prednisone now? If Rimadyl had stopped prior to prednisone— WHAT DATE did Rimadyl stop, then? With either pred or Rimadyl (BUT NEVER TOGETHER) one would have Pepcid AC on board at the get with with either of those anti-inflammatory drugs. If you ARE using pred and Rimadyl: 1) Immediatel STOP the RiMADYL 2) Get Pepcid AC on board soonest, ASAP to suppress acid production. 3) Call ER if necessary but soonest, ASAP get another stomach protector a prescription for SUCRALFATE 4) Homework safety is to learn about each med your dog takes. Learn the timing of sucralfate with Pepcid AC, and with food. marvistavet.com/famotidine.pml marvistavet.com/sucralfate.pmlProactive vets don’t wait til there is lip licking of nausea, not eating, vomit, diarrhea leading to serious bleeding ulcers, red or black blood in stool due to the extra stomach acids anti-inflammatory drugs cause. Pepcid AC (famotidine) blocks the production of acid. The usual dose of Pepcid AC (famotidine) with a disc episode is 0.44mg mg per pound every 12 hours. Pepcid AC has a very limited potential for side effects. Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health” issues answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). HEALTH ISSUES: “Mar Vista Vet reports: Pepcid AC has a very limited potential for side effects, the reason of release to over-the-counter status. The dose of famotidine may require reduction in patients with liver or kidney disease as these diseases tend to prolong drug activities. There have been some reports of exacerbating heart rhythm problems in patients who already have heart rhythm problems so it may be prudent to choose another means of stomach acid control in heart patients.” marvistavet.com/famotidine.pml DANGER TO USE a steroid and non-steroid NSAID like Rimadyl together. Rimadyl® is the Brand name (its generic ingredient is carprofen) QUOTES: All NSAID package inserts carry this similar FDA required warning:Rimadyl® (carprofen) package insert sheet: " Concomitant use of Rimadyl with other anti-inflammatory drugs, such as other NSAIDs or corticosteroids, should be avoided because of the potential increase of adverse reactions, including gastrointestinal ulcerations and/or perforations." www.rimadyl.com/content/RIM016007.pdfCarprofen should not be combined with other NSAIDs, including aspirin, or with corticosteroids. Plumb’s Veterinary Drug Handbook, 7th ed. Plumb DC—Stockholm, WI: PharmaVet, 2008. It would serve you and Holly if you could possibly log in light of this very concerning use of drugs. I saw yesterday, I think it was, that you had logged in. Can you do it again? |
|
|
|
Post by Susan Laing on Jun 25, 2020 18:22:50 GMT -7
We took Holly off the Prednisone [WHAT DATE stopped?]
She had been on Rimadyl since Sun [JE 21] and had only been on the pred since yesterday June 24. So she’s not taking the pred anymore. Pepcid will be given tonight. She’s acting fine except for not putting much weight on that left rear leg. Late this afternoon she began walking much better though. Thank you for all your wonderful help. You may have saved her life.
[weight?
Rimadyl STARTED on what date? 12.5 mg 2x/day for how many days to be given?
Pred STOPPED WHEN?
no 5-7 days of washout AND no double stomach protection ! !]
|
|
PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,541
|
Post by PaulaM on Jun 25, 2020 18:34:31 GMT -7
Susan, conflicting information is seemlingly being reported. Please use dates. Again but simplified: Date Rimadyl BEGAIN? June 21? Date Prednisone STOPPED? IF there was not 5-7 days from the Stop of Pred before the START of Rimadyl, two stomach protectors are needed. Any invasive procedure (surgery, myelogram) has risk to it. A myelogram has dye injected into the spinal cord area. When the xray is taken the dye shows where the cord is being squeezed by a disc. A dog who is now improving in leg function, does not seem like there is a need for a surgery. What do you think? IF doing conservative treatment, the single most important care is the 100 STRICT rest. Limiting vet visits only to those where there will be of great benefit that could not be taken care of over the phone. IF conservative treatment can heal the disc, and nerves heal by themselves, then ask yourself if a phone update is safer than a risky car ride into see a vet. MONITORING for nerve diminishment: As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. 6/25 less Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle under 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm#surgeryVSconservative |
|
On behalf of Susan 6/25:
Guest
|
Post by On behalf of Susan 6/25: on Jun 26, 2020 8:58:23 GMT -7
"My daughter who owns the dog says thank you and she [Michelle] will join Dodgerslist. Apparently the vet prescribed the rimadyl. It didn’t seem to do anything so Michelle started giving Holly the left over pred from 2 weeks ago. So the vet doesn’t know Holly has taken the pred. It was Michelle’s fault. She feels so bad. Thank goodness she had only 3 Doses of the pred. "
[moderators's note, do not edit
weight of dog?
Prednisone (left over) self prescribe by owner. STOPPED on what date?
Rimadyl STARTED on what date? 12.5 mg 2x/day for how many days to be given?
no 5-7 days of washout AND no double stomach protection ! !
vet Rx'd no stomach protection for the Rimadyl!]
|
|
