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Post by Tara & Luci on May 19, 2020 20:48:25 GMT -7
[Original subject line: Luci Can’t Walk ]
Hello All, I’m new to this group and looking for advice and support. My 4 year old (turning 5 in August) got hurt. She is a mini dachshund, weighs 11lbs. She is very active and I have to admit that i created a monster so to speak. I kept her with me so much as a puppy that she now goes everywhere i go. I cant get up to leave a room without her following me lol. She has steps to our couch and bed BUT she refuses to use them when it comes to getting down. I try to stop her before she jumps and get her down myself but 9 times out of 10 she is quicker than me.
About a year ago she hurt her hip and was x-rayed. The Vet saw nothing and recommend an MRI. I couldn’t afford that so they put her on meds and anti inflammatories. After a week she was back to her normal self.
Last Monday [May 11?] Luci didn’t want to go up any stairs. I didn’t notice any limping and she didn’t show signs of pain so i figured she was sore from jumping down. Wednesday evening [5/13] I let her outside to go potty, everything was fine and she went up the 3 stairs to come back in with no issues. I took my kids on a walk and came home and Luci was dragging her back two legs. She showed all the signs of pain. Called her Vet who sent me to the Emergency vet and of course the only MRI machine within 2 hours of my was down for “maintenance”. So they sent me home with pain meds and an anti-inflammatory. She became worse over night. Took her for a follow up the next morning and discovered she couldn’t urinate on her own. They taught me to express her bladder. Called on the MRI machine a few days later and was told the cost was $2500-$3000. If she needed surgery (which they said was not a guarantee) it would cost another $5000-$8000. With being out of work due to COVID-19 and raising 4 kids I definitely didn’t have that kind of money. (Side note: what comes in the mail the next day....her ramp i ordered!!)
We have been crating her, using a sling at times if needed and tons of rest. Her spirits seem to be lifting. She can wag her tail but her legs still are not working. She is taking medication to help her urinate so i cant tell if she is doing it on her own at all. She will whine and I bring her to a puppy pad and she will have a good size spot. She hates the crate, cries and barks pretty much the whole time.
The vet told me she still has deep pain, which is good but a 50% chance of healing without surgery (also not a guarantee). With no MRI (I started a GoFundMe account to try and get one...not enough yet) I have no idea if it is a disk...spinal cord...
I know rest is the best thing for her. My vet has said nothing about taking Pepcid or any antacids. They kinda make me feel horrible every time i go there. I am asking for advice and support. She said if she does end up paralyzed and doesn’t regain the ability to go potty on her own then she will always be on medication and i would have to think about if that’s the best thing for her or if i should euthanize her. That’s the last thing i want to do but from going from a free dog and how active she is to not walking or going potty on her own makes me think I’m being selfish and that’s not a life for her.
I know this is long but i thank whoever takes the time to read this and any input given. tips on products, diapers etc....
Tara and Luci
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 19, 2020 21:14:25 GMT -7
Welcome, Tara, we are glad you are here. N ame of each med, ?mgs is each dose? how often do you give.
For how may days is she to take the anti inflammatory?If you have the principals down of how to express, then the bedding will stay dry from session to session. Review how to express the bladder, lots of tips and a video to help you. Note you can also express for poop too! Do you feel the bladder each time you express and do you keep pressing until the bladder feels almost flat, like your fingers are almost touching?
How often do you express? While learning start at every 2-3 hrs and increase as you become proficient.LINK on expressing: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmLet us know how you feel you are doing with expressing and where we might help you.No reason to be using a sling with a dog who needs to be expressed. Simply carry her to and from the potty place and express on a pee pad adjacent to her crate. Currently, which signs of pain do you observe? ◉shivering, trembling ◉yelping when picked up or moved ◉Arched back ◉reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ◉head held high or nose to the ground ◉tight tense tummy ◉can’t find a comfortable position ◉Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ◉Not their normal interested in things going on selves? Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging at expressing times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc CALMERsUsing any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives (ACE, alprazolam or trazodone). Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is: --DOG Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/Use diffusor with one oral calmer from below: Oral calmers 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Knowledge lets you know why putting a dog to sleep is bad advice! Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn - excellent video series here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/theater.htm » PRINT OUT these two links and tape to your fridge: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm AND www.dodgerslist.com/literature/FridgeInfo81907.pdf » Use the printouts as your roadmap to avoid dangerous detours in your dog’s care » Make notes/highlight to keep yourself on track » Follow all the links in the next days to become the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog needs. Use the “search box” to easily locate topics over at our Main www.Dodgerslist.com website: *  |
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Post by Tara & Luci on May 20, 2020 13:12:47 GMT -7
Thank you Paula for responding! Here is the answer to your questions:
Name of each med, ?mgs is each dose? how often do you give.
For how may days is she to take the anti inflammatory?
- Diazepam 2mg. 1 tablet every 8 hours
- Prazosin HCI 1mg 1 tablet every 8 hours
- Tramadol 50mg 1/4 tablet every 8 hours
- Gabapentin 250mg/50ml 1.7ml every 8 hours
- Meloxicam 1.5mg/ml 0.2ml every 24 hours with food
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
11 lbs
Meloxicam 1.5mgs/mL as of 5/13: 0.2mL 1x/day for ? days
gabapentin 250mg/50mL: mg (1.7mL) 3x/day
tramadol 12.5mgs 3x/day
diazepam 2mgs 3x/day
Prazosin 1mg 3x/day
needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/Meloxicam!]
- for the most part when i express her bladder my fingers do touch. She releases a lot on her own. Well I’m assuming from the medication. She will whine when she has to go or needs to be expressed now. I put her on the pee pad and with in a few minutes there is a good amount of urine and then i express to make sure its empty. This is done every few hours. I’m okay with expressing. At least once a day i have to try it a few times before anything comes out if i feel like her tummy is hard.
Currently, which signs of pain do you observe?
◉Arched back: Not bad compared to first day 5/14/2020.
◉tight tense tummy: This has also improved tremendously. The only time i see this now is when she has a full bladder.
I will look into the oral calming things as long as it’s safe to take with her meds. She has 1 day left of the anti inflammatory (tomorrow) and we have a follow up vet visit to check her and her deep pain also tomorrow, Thursday May 21.
She wants to move and wants to go outside And play. We obviously try to keep her as calm and still but with 4 kids in and out and how she is with me and not being able to go everywhere i go she just wont relax.
Tara
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 20, 2020 14:29:03 GMT -7
Luci seems to be regaining some bladder control if she can indicate by whining that she needs to go. Is her bedding staying dry? Prazosin relaxes the urinary sphincter and makes it easier to express. She may soon no longer need this.
After the ability to give a happy tail wag bladder control is typically the next neuro function to return.
These are the typical stages of healing: 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) YES2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. YES3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run.
You may want to soon consider the "sniff and pee" test soon. This is how we know when a dog has regained bladder control. Carry Luci out to an old pee spot if she sniffs and then pees a message has been sent from the brain through the spinal cord to the bladder which says this is a good spot to release urine. You should still do a quick express check to make sure the bladder is empty. If she cannot do this yet, try it regularly.
Are you seeing any signs of pain besides the arched back and the tense tummy? Some other signs are; ; -shivering -trembling
-yelping when picked up or moved
-reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move can’t find a comfortable position.
You mention the tense tummy is related to a full bladder. An arched back may sometimes be present without pain. If you are not seeing any of the other signs of pain her pain seems to be in control.
Any kind of transport is a risk for IVDD dogs. It might be possible to update your vet by phone and avoid the transport.
It is critical that Luci remain under Strict crate rest for 8 weeks. When our dogs start to feel better, they think they are fine and want to go out and play. We pet parents know better. We know that 8 weeks of very strict crate rest is what allows the disc to heal and any time out of the crate can be dangerous. If you are having trouble keeping her calm in the crate, consider the calmers that Paula mentioned. Sometimes just placing a blanket covering the top half of crate which creates a den-like feeling can help to calm. These and other ideas can be found here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 20, 2020 16:35:25 GMT -7
Tara, do read the above post from Romy we can get feedback from you on her questions. Meloxicam- For how many days is she to take Meloxicam?
- Which does the vet want on the stop of Meloxicam? full stop or backing off the pain meds?
That is important information for you and us. In case the Meloxicam stop date is approaching before the Memorial day weekend, you'd best learn what it entails, what to ask and monitor for. Here is the link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm Lets talk about anything there you are still curious aboutBenefit vs. riskLimited movement of the back is number one priority that carries the most weight. Every thing else must be weighed against the benefit of limited movement getting the disc to heal. Local vets often get deep pain sensation (DPS) wrong. It is because they are not like the neurons who do this difficult test everyday. Weight goes to staying in the recovery suite over doubtful info vet visit on DPS.Also there is nothing the vet or you can do to bring back DPS. This is something Luci will do with time to the extent possible. Have you specifically done some happy talk and then Luci attempted to wag her tail Tail movement at expressing time is more likely a reflex movement. If she can do a happy wag, then she has deep pain sensation. Vets who understand the need for limited movement take care of things over the phone to prevent risk to the disc in a vehicle transport. --- phone updates on your observations of all pain in control, any happy tail wag, etc. -- phone updates IF, if there is pain surfacing nearing next dose of pain meds and your advocating about methocarbamol for the often muscle contraction pain. -- What is the reason for the visit that bears more weight more benefit than staying in her recovery suite and avoiding a vehicle transport? -- Are you suspicious of a urinary tract infection? Smelly urine, change in color, red blood in the urine. Then the fact that UTI can move up to the kidneys where it can be life threatening if not treated bears a heck of a lot more weight than staying at home in the suite. Getting to the vet for a urinalysis to proove infection and the need for an antibiotic weighs supreme. Expressing and diapersDid you ask about diapers because she is leaking in her bedding? Do you feel you need another hands on lesson. The goal in learning to express is that you can fully void the bladder. That means longer times before she needs expressing again. How many hrs apart do you express? With increased profiency you may be able to move up to every 3-4 hours, then every 4-6 hours. Let us know the details of your expressing. |
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Post by Tara & Luci on May 24, 2020 20:57:16 GMT -7
Response for Romy:
Thank you Romy. This is great feed back!
This morning she woke me up whining and when I placed her on her pee pad she went potty! She eat her breakfast and then stood up for a few seconds before one of her legs went wobbly.
Are you seeing any signs of pain?-NO -trembling -NO -yelping when picked up or moved -NO -reluctant to move much. -NO
Meloxicam? She didn’t give me an end date. SEE RESPONSE BELOW.
I took Luci to the vet for her follow up on Thursday, May 21. They said that she still has deep pain and she held her own weight on her own for a few seconds, longer on the left. They upped her dose of the ▲Meloicam. The dose i was giving her was only the half and now i can either give her the full dose at once or split it in half and do it twice a day. The syringe goes by weight so i go to 13lbs (that’s what she weighed in at that day) but when I asked her about giving Luci an antacid she asked if she was vomiting and i told her no, she said not to give her anything now but if she shows signs of stomach issues that we can inter grade something into her regimen.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
▲13 lbs
Meloxicam as of 5/13: 10lb dose 1x/day
as of 5/21: ▲13lbs dose 1x/day for ? days then test stop for _pain/_neuro gabapentin 250mg/50mL: mg (1.7mL) 3x/day
diazepam 2mgs ▼2x/day
Prazosin 1mg ▼2x/day
✙trazodone 50mg
Pepcid AC 10mgs 1x/day]
So that I went home after and gave her the 2nd half of the full dose and that night was HORRIBLE!!!!! She didn’t fall asleep peacefully until 4am. She kept licking her lips and i could her what sounded like hiccups and she would lay still and then a minute later pop up and move like she was so uncomfortable. You could here the indigestion in her chest and tummy. I went that morning and bought the 10mg ✙Pepcid AC and gave it to her a half hour before the anti inflammatory and she has had no issues since!!
The vet kept her on All her meds but didn’t want to continue the ➖Tramadol. So she is done with that. I told her how Luci is very hard to calm down and doesn’t react good when she is in her crate. She prescribed her ✙Tramadole [sp? trazodone?] 50mg. The bottle says 1/2 tablet every 8 to 12 hours as needed but not to over do it because it could lower her blood pressure. I’ve given it to her twice and it seems to help.
The vet also wants me to spread out giving her the Diazepam and Prazosin HCI. I have been saying to her “Let’s go potty” and she perks up and will go pee on the pee pad so i tried the sniff pee test and she pooped twice and peed A LOT outside today!!!!!! I placed her in front of the water bowl this evening and on her own she lifted her bottom up and was holding her weight while drinking. The vet said these were all good signs. Her happy tail wagging is happening more and more. I know we are not out of the water yet but I’m hopeful. No more diapers either. She isn’t leaking and has been consistent on going pee or whining to me and then peeing when i place her on the pee pad....hopefully will start outside (I use a sling to help support her back end when she is in the grass). No accidents at night and i am still expressing her bladder after she pees on her own to make sure it is empty, which has become much easier. The vet also said that her bladder was small which is good news and she hasn’t stretched it out.
Thank you for your time!
Tara
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on May 25, 2020 4:49:01 GMT -7
Hi, Tara. Wonderful news on the bladder control! As I am sure you will do, keep a close eye on Luci to observe for any sign of pain since Tramadol has now been stopped. Should you see any sign of pain return, the vet will need to immediately be notified so the Tramadol can be resumed. What is the current dosage of Meloxicam? Did the vet give you any reason why she has increased the dosage at this time? Usually a vet will try a course of anti-inflammatory for a week or two and then stop it to test for pain/swelling. At that time, they will also stop or at least taper the pain meds. If no pain returns, then no meds are needed. If pain returns, then meds are needed for a bit longer. It's very unusual to see a vet increase the dosage of the anti-inflammatory after being on it for almost two weeks. You don't want Luci on any meds for any longer than absolutely necessary. Please speak to the vet and discuss her reasoning for increasing the Meloxicam. More info on the inflammation phase of IVDD here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmPlease also advise the vet of the signs of GI distress that you saw when increasing the Meloxicam. Good job on getting Pepcid AC on board (dosage should be 5mg 30 min. before the anti-inflammatory and then every 12 hours thereafter) but since you've already seen signs of GI distress, you should speak to the vet about adding Sucralfate as a second stomach protector. Sucralfate works in a different way to bandaid the damaged mucus lining and also promotes a healing environment. Sucralfate will require timing with other meds…so do your homework so you can discuss things with the vet: www.marvistavet.com/sucralfate.pmlYou mentioned that Tramadol was stopped and Tramadole was started. Did you mean to say Trazodone which is a sedative? What is the dosage and frequency given? What is the frequency/dosing now being given of the Diazepam and Prazosin? Rather than bringing Luci out of the crate to drink water (any time out of the crate is a dangerous time for a dog on strict crate rest), please give her water and food inside of the crate. Here's how to make a water bowl holder: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/bowlHLDR.jpgHealing prayers for Tara. |
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Post by Tara & Luci on May 25, 2020 12:15:15 GMT -7
Thank you so much for your feed back. Please see responses below.
Meloxicam? The Vet upped her does because she said the amount the emergency vet gave her was half of what she should have been taking since she became hurt. So she said to double the dose and get to the weight of 13lbs. On the syringe. She has a follow up this Friday. Since then she has improved more. Her back legs are getting stronger. She keeps standing up on all 4 legs in her crate and holding the weight.
Okay i will talk to her about that because. The Pepcid AC is working but she did vomit the on Saturday May 23 during the night. No signs since though.
Yes, you are correct. She is on Trazodone because she wont relax when she is in her crate. The tablets are 50mg and she is to take 1/2 every 8-12 hours as needed.
Diazepam 2mg. 1 tablet every 8 hours
Prazosin HCI 1mg 1 tablet every 8 hours
The vet advised me to start doing every 12 hours instead of 8.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 25, 2020 13:41:14 GMT -7
Tara, love hearing that nerve repair is already taking place for Luci!
The vet needs to learn and be aware of what Luci is sensitive to should Luci in the future need to use a NSAID, it will be in her file. Pepcid AC should be used at the same time any NSAID is started.
The "Quick Reply" area at the bottom of the page is preferable in helping us and making things easier for you when posting. There is no need for colors when you post. etc. The moderators have eagle eyes to recognize and enhance the special clues we are looking for with use of certain colors and bolding words.
Quick reply area allows you to quickly to scroll up and down to a previous post and then back down to the "Quick Reply" typing area to continue your own post. Thank you so much for helping us, too!
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