PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Apr 27, 2020 21:20:26 GMT -7
Tiffani, the single most important part of conservative treament is the STRICT crate rest part. Do no let anyone fool you that PT should start now while still on pred. When off pred and all pain is full proved gone, then and only then wouel the lightest, least aggtressive of passive range of motion be used for paralizeds legs. We have information on how to do that when the time comes so that you do not jeopardize the early healing disc nor cause damage to the spinal cord that could become a permanent thing.
When youi can please provide all the detial about prednisone. that helps us tremendously in understaning the Vet’s thinking behind his prescription. how many mgs in one pred tablet, for how many days on 1.5 tab once a day? What had he been on in the hospital l- mgs, ttimes per day? etc.
why is there no Pepcid AC (famotidine) on board to protect again the stomach acids pred causes?
Explain what “screaming his head off” means. In severe pain? not liking crate.
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on Apr 27, 2020 21:35:21 GMT -7
Thank you Paula.
He has separation anxiety and when I adopted him screamed a lot - took a lot of work months and he calmed down. Is he’s in the crate screaming - this his let me in the couch and be right next to you screaming I’m used too. I’m ignoring him.
While medically boarded he was on 5mg of pred x a day. Now he’s on a taper of 5mg/1.5 tab once a day for 3 more days, the 1 tab once a day for 7 more days - then re-Val. I will call tomorrow about the Pepcid- they did not send me home with any and it’s not on his med list on discharge papers.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone 5mg tab as of 4/11: ER Rx TAPER DOSE!!!: 2.5mg 2x/day dog in pain!
? boarded 3 days later on 4/13 or 4/15 for pain control?
? "Today is 4 days since he was admitted" on Sunday 4/12?
as of 4/15: boarding vet Rx ?mgs ?x/day
as of 4/16: brdngVet Rx TAPER DOSE!!!: 2.5mgs 2x/day dog in pain!
as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, then taper to ▼7.5mgs 1x/day
gabapentin 100mg ▲2x/day
✙Diazepam ?mg ?x/day which ? every 6 or 8 hrs?
✙Urecholine (bethanechol). ?mgs 3x/day
✙Prazison ? mgs 2x/day
Trazodone: ▼25mg 3x/day
Pepcid AC not Rx'd on discharge 4/27]
I’m very confused/conflicted because they want him at PT three times a week, a declined because I can’t afford it. I feel extreme guilt that I didn’t do the surgery due to $
They informed me cooper has a very hard time emptying his bladder, hence the 3 meds for that. I tried 3 times tonight and nothing for me. I asked about home catheter and they told me that was not an option.
Overwhelmed but tonight is our first night together - take it one day at a time ♥️
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 28, 2020 5:14:10 GMT -7
I'm so glad to hear that Cooper is now back home with you, Tiffani! Please don't feel badly that you can't afford PT three times a week because that's the last thing that Cooper needs right now. The less movement of the spine, the better until that damaged disc heals. Too much movement and the not-yet-healed disc can tear more or rupture which could result in more nerve damage and the 8 weeks of strict crate rest would have to start over. Please don't do ANY PT at home now while he's still on meds. Once he's off of the Prednisone and Gabapentin, we'll help you with some very light, passive massage and range of motion exercises. But please, not right now. I'd like to share my Jeremy's story with you. 8 ears ago, he showed signs of pain but no signs of nerve damage when I first took him to a local ER and he was walking fine. The ER vet had obviously not seen many cases of IVDD and he walked Jeremy down a long hall to weigh him and then he allowed me to walk Jeremy out of the building through a large parking lot to my car. He told me to rest him when I got home, not go for long walks or up or down stairs but he did say that Jeremy could walk around in a couple of rooms. A day and a half later, Jeremy lost all movement in his hind legs, had no deep pain sensation and required emergency surgery. It took 6 months for him to wobbly walk with a drag of one foot and he unfortunately never regained bladder control. It wasn't until I found Dodgerslist that I learned of the dangerous instructions given to me by the vet. Dodgerslist has seen thousands of dogs come through its forum for over 15 years and has learned what works and what doesn't. Not all vets know how to treat IVDD with conservative treatment. Usually when the Prednisone is tapered, the pain meds (Gabapentin) are also tapered or stopped. Do you know if the dosage of the Gabapentin is now less than what was given in the hospital? During the taper, it will be your job to keep a close eye out for any sign of pain returning. If you see pain again, you'll need to immediately alert the vet so Cooper can be returned to the original dosage of all meds again for a bit longer. Pain means there's still swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine and still a need for the anti-inflammatory dosage of the Pred. Anything less than the anti-inflammatory dosage of Pred will not be effective on getting the swelling down. Having pain meds on board during the taper will make it difficult for you to quickly determine that there is still pain/swelling. When you speak to the vet this morning about Pepcid AC, please also speak to them about tapering or stopping the Gabapentin so a true test for pain/swelling can be made. More info here on the inflammation phase of IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htmWhen Cooper was previously home for a short while, you mentioned that he was able to urinate outside when you took him to potty but they don't believe he can completely empty his bladder. Is he still able to do that? After Cooper has gone on his own, you can try to find his bladder and express to see if there is any urine left in the bladder. It will be smaller since he's emptied some of it and it may be back by the pelvic area. If Cooper has some bladder control, it may be very difficult for you to express him. Dogs with bladder control usually will not allow manual expression of their bladders. Please let us know whether he can sniff an old pee spot and release urine on his own when you carry him out to potty with support of either your hands holding his hips/thighs (not under his belly). You will probably need to take him out more often while he's on Pred since Pred causes increased thirst/urination. Did they perform a urinalysis to determine whether Cooper has a UTI?Cooper is actually on two types of sedatives - Diazepam and Trazodone. The vet may be calling Diazepam an incontinence med since it relaxes muscles and may help urination but it's actually a sedative more commonly called Valium. In the next post, I'll give you some tips on how to help calm Cooper in the crate which may help his anxiety. Please let us know how the sniff and pee test goes and what the vet says after speaking to them this morning about tapering or stopping Gabapentin so a true test for pain/swelling can be done and about the addition of Pepcid AC. Hang in there. We're here for you and Cooper and will help you through his recovery. |
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 28, 2020 5:16:44 GMT -7
Here are some tips to help calm Cooper in the crate. To calm Cooper in the crate, it would be a good idea to cover the top with a towel. That should mellow him. It also creates a den like feeling that dogs love. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Dogs: Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/us/Products/ADAPTIL-Calm-Home-Diffuser with dog pheromones Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. 3) Bach's Rescue Remedy is a liquid 5-herb combo to help with relaxation (Star of Bethlehem – Orithogalum umbellatum, Rock Rose – Helianthemum, Cherry Plum – Prunus cerasifera, Impatiens – Impatiens gladulifera, Clematis – Clematis vitalba) Be aware you might be inadvertently training for unwanted behavior. To dogs rewards are: food, looking at them, talking to them, eye contact, approaching the crate, petting. So anytime you see unwanted behavior ignore it, turn your back, leave the room if you have to. Preferable is to start teaching what you do want before there is too much practice in doing the unwanted behavior. Anytime your dog is sitting or lying down quietly, give a reward. Soon your dog will see they get rewards for four feet on the floor, quietly sitting, etc. Consider some of these ideas: -- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm--Caster wheels can be added to a wire crate so the crate can be wheeled from one room to the next so your dog can stay with you. -- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. -- Nan Arthur, CDBC, CPDT, KPACTP writes: "According to the book, Stress in Dogs, by Martina Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt, the most well-behaved dogs get 17 or more hours of rest and sleep per day. Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. When dogs have a focus and an understanding about how to behave to get what they want, they are much calmer overall. To do this, each time your dog looks at you, say, something like, “Yes!” or use a clicker to mark the second he looks at you, and then give your dog a high-value food reward. Wait for your dog to look up at you again, say, “Yes,” and reward again. Do this exercise 10 or so times and then say, “All done,” and put the treats away. Come back later and do it again until you can see that your dog is really starting to make automatic eye contact in hopes you will say, “Yes,” again and give him his reward. " [NOTE: treats should be subtracted from the normal daily kibble ration so as not to gain weight during crate rest.] -- If your dog won’t get too excited seeing what’s happening outside, during the day try putting the crate on the coffee table or the dining room table so there will be a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the house from on high. -- Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows. -- Fill a Kong with soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the Kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube. Good thick low salt/no fat chicken broth is full of cartilage-building proteins and amino acids. Freeze it up into cubes for easy access as you need it. Fun and keeps the body hydrated: place cubes in a bowl for licking. If a dog is jumping up at the sides of the crate, you can lower the ceiling of the crate. Cut a piece of cardboard the size of the top of the crate, punch holes in the corners and tie the cardboard down into the crate to the level of the top of the dog's head when standing. Or cover the top of the crate with a blanket or towel, bringing the blanket/towel down to the level of the dog's eyes so when he/she jumps up, he won't be able to see anything. That may discourage him/her from jumping up. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htm |
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 2, 2020 19:08:10 GMT -7
Good Evening,
Cooper update. Today marks 3 weeks since his injury. This week was a bad week as Cooper was overly medicated and it was extremely hard to express his bladder, he was unable to hold any weight on his front legs and would collapse. I took him back to vet for suspected UTI (urine smelled horribly like ammonia.) He had a UTI and they started him on antibotics. Today, he actually seems more like his old self than I've seen since his injury.
He went to acupuncture today (he's going every Saturday) as he sees a vet, they help me express his bladder fully (all 5 vets he's seen says he is very very hard to express) and this will be the most challenging part of all. It comforts me to have a vet assess his progress, and check UTI symptoms. Feel very alone in this process especially with COVID-19 restrictions, not allowed to interact with vet. they're my lifeline of support and knowledge with physical assessment (thank goodness I have you guys for everything else.)
Here is his report from vet today [5/2]:
"HIs overall spinal comfort is already a little better than monday. His neck is still very sore and his mid to low back still a good amount of discomfort too, but definitely improving so far. we focused primarily on comfort for his neck and his mid to low back, and we also did some neurostimulation for his kind legs. He allowed me to place needles in his neck and along his mid to low back with no issues as all, and i placed a few in his feet as well to stimulate the nerves"
Current meds as of 05/02/20:
Clavamox: 125mg: 1 tabled every 12 hours
Diazapam: 0.5mg: 3 to 4 pills every 8 hours
Prazosin- 0.5mg: 1 tabled every 12 hours
z-urecholine- 10mg: 1/4 tablet every 8 hours
▼Prednisone: 5mg- 1 tablet a day
▼Trazodone:50mg: 1/2 tab- every 12 hours
✙Tramadol: 50mg: 1/2 tab every 12 hours
▲Gabapentin: 100mg -3 times a day
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days, then taper
as of 5/2: cont'd pain taper test: 5mgs ▼1x/day
✙Tramadol: 25mg 2x/day
gabapentin 100mg ▲3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 3 to 4 pills 3x/day
✙Clavamox: 125mg 2x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Prazison 0.5mg tab: 1 tab 2x/day
Trazodone: 25mg 3▼2x/day
needs GI tract protector, Pepcid AC, on board w/prednisone! ]
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 3, 2020 5:37:26 GMT -7
Tiffani, since Cooper is still showing pain upon exam, he MUST be returned ASAP to the anti-inflammatory dosage of the Prednisone for a bit longer (5mg 2x/day). It is NOT time to taper down. Anything less than the anti-inflammatory dosage will not be effective on reducing the swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine. Pain = swelling = more time on all meds. I see that they have added Tramadol and have increased the dosage of the Gabapentin which is good but they must also immediately return Cooper to the anti-inflammatory dosage of Prednisone. Please speak to them about this ASAP. Please do also speak to them about starting Cooper on a stomach protector, such as Pepci AC (Famotidine), to protect against the side effects of the Prednisone.
Is Cooper showing any sign of pain at this time? Please explain more about his being "over medicated" and that he was unable to stand on his front legs and was collapsing. UTIs can make it difficult to express so hopefully you'll be better able to express his bladder once the UTI starts to clear up. Please keep trying to express Cooper. Can he still release urine on his own when you carry him out to potty? I'm not sure what they mean by "neuro stimulation". Are they only do acupuncture treatments? Please do not allow any chiro adjustments to be made. Here's why: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htmHealing prayers for Cooper. |
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 3, 2020 17:34:29 GMT -7
Thank you.
I have a call Into his vet for increased Prednisone and Pepcid. I’ve asked a few times about the Pepcid, and this doesn’t feel that their standard protocol, given the lack of, ill keep nudging.
No, he’s only receiving accupuncture and TENS stimulation , no chiro whatsoever.
Regarding over medicated his tongue would hang out and he Couldn’t keep his eyes open, he would not help standing his front paws to help me with his body weight for expressing. Yes, he still has control over his bladder, which makes it very hard to express. He’s on three meds to help relax and help with this process.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 3, 2020 18:31:14 GMT -7
Tiffani, does Cooper now have ability in any way to move his front legs by himself? Such as when trying re-position himself in his suite? Or is it he can only support his body with front legs if you put the front legs in a standing position for him?
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 3, 2020 18:35:33 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Cooper has always had ability to sit up and film use of front legs. With the UTI and extra pain meds he was not able too. Today, he’s looking much better and supports his weight on front legs while I prop his hind legs to stand - he immediately constantly turns to the right to look back at me and I loose grip and he collapses. I’ve tried expressing him on his side while he’s laying down(watched so many YouTube vids) and that does not work
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 4, 2020 5:02:18 GMT -7
Having partial bladder control and a UTI would both make it hard to express. I do hope that when the UTI heals, you will have an easier time. Try carrying him out to potty more often during the day so at least he can release as much urine as he can on his own. And then after he's gone on his own, see if you can express. As for Pepcid AC, ask in this way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" If your vet says your dog has no health issues such as liver, heart, etc to keep her from taking Pepcid AC, then do get it on board. Here's info on the inflammatory phase of IVDD that you can use in your discussion with the vet about getting Cooper back on the anti-inflammatory dosage of Prednisone: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm |
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 9, 2020 22:11:51 GMT -7
Good Evening-
Today marks one month when Cooper went down.
Current meds:
Current meds as of 05/02/20:
Clavamox: 125mg: 1 tabled every 12 hours - just completed
Diazapam: 0.5mg: 3 to 4 pills every 8 hours
Prazosin- 0.5mg: 1 tabled every 12 hours
z-urecholine- 10mg: 1/4 tablet every 8 hours
▲Prednisone: 5mg- 1.5 tab BID- (increases per your guidance)
Trazodone:50mg: 1/2 tab- every 12 hours
Tramadol: 50mg: 1/2 tab every 12 hours
Gabapentin: 100mg -3 times a day
✙Pepcid [How many mg how many times/day??]
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days
as of 5/2: ▲ 7.5mgs 2x/day for ? days, then taper test
Tramadol: 25mg 2x/day
gabapentin 100mg 3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 3 to 4 pills 3x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Prazison 0.5mg tab: 1 tab 2x/day
Trazodone: 25mg 2x/day
✙Pepcid AC 10mg 1x/day ]
His personality has come back this week. Wants to jump up (stands in his crate and repeatedly makes a jumping motion, making his old playing growls as he rolls around and plays with his blanket, he is harder to manage for sure as soon as I set him down to potty he takes off and tries to scoot around.
I’m assuming this means he is feeling better and it becomes more challenging to keep him still for the next 4 weeks of crate rest.
When he goes potty he now is trying to posture when he poops. His left leg trembles randomly (this is new)
Thanks
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 10, 2020 4:57:48 GMT -7
I'm glad to hear that Cooper is feeling so much better, Tiffani. Yes, when they feel better, it can be a challenge to keep them still but continue to do all that you can to limit movement of his spine. That's very good news that he trying to get into posture when he poops! On what date was the increase of Prednisone to 5mg 2x/day given? On what date will a taper start? What is the dosage of the Pepcid AC and how many times a day is it given? So glad to see that is now on board! Use a harness, a 6' leash and a sling when you take him out to potty to limit his ability to "take off". Or make a 6' potty area using push-in-the-ground plastic fencing or an ex-pen to limit movement. i.ibb.co/K7HNj10/slingwalk.jpgIs he now better able to completely empty his bladder when you take him out to potty? If not, how are you doing expressing him? Or are you taking him out more often to help prevent another UTI? If you feel that Cooper is moving too much in the crate, do speak to the vet about the Trazodone dosage or trying another type of mild sedative. Or try some of the tips previously given to help calm him. It would be terrible for him to have a set back at this point where crate rest would have to start over. He's doing very well indeed! |
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 10, 2020 8:31:43 GMT -7
Good Morning,
The Pepcid AC I went and bought myself OTC, as the vet did not give guidance or instructions on that, and I’ve inquired a few days- I am giving him one 10mg tab in morning with his first prednisone dos.
The ▲prednisone dosage was increased on 05/04 and tomorrow 05/11 the dosage decreases to 1.5 pills once a day for 7 days (5mg a tab)
We are going to assess his pain in one week for a taper dosage per vet
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days
as of 5/4: ▲7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then taper test 5/11 for _pain/_neuro
Tramadol: 25mg 2x/day
gabapentin 100mg 3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 3 to 4 pills 3x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Prazison 0.5mg tab: 1 tab 2x/day
Trazodone: 25mg 2x/day
Pepcid AC 10mg 1x/day ]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 10, 2020 13:09:30 GMT -7
With the pred taper, watch Cooper carefully for signs of pain. Often when the pred taper begins, pain meds are stopped or cut back. Since pain is a very strong indicator of inflammation, it will take longer to discover if inflammation still exists, but is being masked by the pain meds. Taper doses do not work on inflammation, so Cooper may be without the needed dose of pred for a period of time. If you see any signs of pain, let the vet know as soon as you can so that Cooper can go back to the full dose of pred and pain meds.
The usual dose of Pepcid AC in dogs is .44mgs per lb every 12 hours. So Cooper should be getting 10mgs 2x per day. 30 minutes before the pred when pred is taken two times a day. Once the pred is given only once a day give the second dose of Pepcid 12 hours after the first. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 10, 2020 13:48:49 GMT -7
Tiffani, Pepcid AC lasts for 12 hours and the reason 10mgs Pepcid AC would be given twice a day. Let us us know Cooper's GI tract is being protected round the clock now. The decrease of prednisone on Monday May 11 is "the" important test to find out if there is existing pain. So you can see Romy's point. How will you be able to assess properly for pain starting Monday, if blindfolding pain-masking pain meds are on board (gabapentin and tramadol)? Delaying in getting your proof of no pain OR pain existing and need to get back up to the pred anti-inflammatory dose level is not a good thing. Nerves do not like being surround by inflamed swollen tissue. Ready your self to be able to advocate on behalf of Cooper "How anti-inflammatory drugs are used during a disc episode" how long to use these drugs, to know what your job at home is during a taper AND to work out a back up Plan B with your vet. READING LINK: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm On Monday, May 11 with the begin of the Prednisone taper test for pain, let us know what your vet prefers: --- to back off all the pain meds on at the same time the pred taper starts? OR.... -- to to do a full stop of all the pain meds on the same day the pred taper starts? |
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 15, 2020 14:30:15 GMT -7
Good afternoon,
Cooper update:
5 weeks Down tomorrow 05/16
Only med change is ▼prednisone 1.5mg daily once a day
Trazadone as needed
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days
as of 5/4: ▲7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then taper test 5/11 for _pain/_neuro
Tramadol: 25mg 2x/day
gabapentin 100mg 3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 3 to 4 pills 3x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Prazison 0.5mg tab: 1 tab 2x/day
Trazodone: 25mg 2x/day
Pepcid AC 10mg 1x/day ]
Last night Cooper ▲wagged his tail first time since going down.
This Morning I fed him his breakfast and he ▲stood up to eat.
A few hours ago he ▲started to crawl, not drag, and kick his legs on ground to scoot. Almost like a ▲wobbly walk. When I pet his thigh his toes curl and he bends his legs towards himself.
He’s a wild man today wanting to move and go, so I spoke to vet and we put trazadone back on 1/2 tab as needed to chill him out. I realize the importance of 3 more weeks of crate rest
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 15, 2020 14:43:10 GMT -7
Wagging his tail and standing is very good news!
When our dogs start to feel better they want to get going. They think they are fine. We pet parents know better. We know that it is 8 weeks of strict crate rest that will allow the disc to heal.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 15, 2020 19:02:42 GMT -7
Tiffanie, when will the meds (tramadol and gabapentin) that blind fold you to pain (mask pain) be stopped? How can you monitor for pain with a blind fold on?
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 15, 2020 19:06:18 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Good question. Neither vets have mentioned when those meds will be reduced or eliminated. Is it safe to assume I’d have that assessed in 3 weeks when the 8 weeks rest period is up?
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on May 16, 2020 5:25:02 GMT -7
Tiffani will need to be off of all meds for several days before graduation day in order for you to be able to start to gradually reintroduce movement again at the end of the 8 weeks. The pain meds need to be stopped or at least gradually tapered off of NOW so you can determine if there is still pain/swelling. It's that swelling pressing on the nerves that causes pain/neuro loss. You need to determine that quickly so if there is still swelling pressing on the nerves, you can get Cooper back quickly on the anti-inflammatory dosage of the Predisone. Anything less than the anti-inflammatory dosage is not effective on reducing swelling. If no pain returns, there is no swelling and all meds can be tapered off of. All meds have side effects and if there is no reason for the pain meds, there would be no reason to take them. Please speak to the vet ASAP about stopping or at least tapering off of the pain meds. If they feel Cooper still needs them, then he also still needs the anti-inflammatory dosage of the Prednisone. No way to tell without getting off the pain-masking meds. More on the inflammation stage of IVDD here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm |
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 20, 2020 21:42:26 GMT -7
Good evening-
Cooper went for acupuncture yesterday [5/19] and the doctor said she suspected Cooper has another UTI. They asked me if I’m expressing his bladder, which I am [expressing] every two hours. He’s constantly overflowing Urine as well. They did a culture and will her resumes back tomorrow.
Dr also stated Cooper is still in significant pain upon examination. I am not seeing signs of pain at home at all. He’s a wild man and wanting to get out of his crate and has started bunny hoping like on front legs repeatedly - I had to introduce trazadone back to calm him down. When taking into to potty he starts to scoot all over the place.
Dr wants to start him on ✙Methocarbamol for the pain and reduce prednisone and start metcam as he’s gained 2 lbs in 2 weeks and she thinks the weight gain is contributing to his pain. I have cut his food back. His anxiety is really bad and he’s whining non stop- the trazadone is helping calm him.
He’s currently on one 5 mg tab once a day of prednisone and Monday I am to reduce to 0.5.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days
as of 5/4: ▲7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then taper test 5/11 for _pain/_neuro
✙Metacam as of date?: 5-7 days prednisone washout before starting?
✙Methocarbamol: ?mg ?x/day
Tramadol: 25mg 2x/day
gabapentin 100mg 3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 3 to 4 pills 3x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Prazison 0.5mg tab: 1 tab 2x/day
Trazodone: 25mg 2x/day
Pepcid AC 10mg 1x/day ]
Dr also noted he has much improvement in his hind legs and now happy wags his tail.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on May 21, 2020 6:37:49 GMT -7
Tiffani, the way your vet is choosing to handle a disc episode is just not something we can understand. At this point it seems as though we ought to back off being a broken record repeating things. You have to take the info we've presented, along with what you are hearing from your vet. Do your own research and decide how to proceed for the best interest of your Cooper. I would highly suggest to get a 2nd opinion vet on board. A neuro is not just for reasons of a surgery, but can help with bladder meds, and can sort out about spinal cord inflammation and which meds might be now dropped. If you want, refresh yourself on topics to increase your ability react to what a vet discusses and respond with good questions of this vet or your new hire vet. ▪️Why and how to properly assess the need for using any anti inflammatory drug. Includes the serious safety issue of the proposed switching from pred to Metacam, the number of days to stop one drug before the start of another. LINK: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm Print out the page. Highlight things and write your notes and questions in the margin. Anything you want to talk more about, we'll be glad to chat ...just ask. ▪️Strategies for locating and hiring a vet to be on Cooper's IVDD health care team: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/VetchkList.htm▪️ Gaining two pounds in two weeks is rather strange. Is their scale correct. Did you re-weigh him yourself to confirm? ▪️ Cooper has an upper motor neuron (UMN) bladder. The bladder is resistant to releasing urine despite a full bladder which normally signals the bladder to contract, forcing urine to exit through the bladder neck. DISCUSS with vet if possibly these two meds need some adjusting, since you report Cooper is constantly overflowing and you are needing to express every 2 hrs. —Prazosin- decreases the tightness of the muscle surrounding the neck of the bladder (internal urethral sphincter tone). A tight bladder neck keeps urine from escaping. —Urecholine® (Bethanechol), enhances the bladder wall muscle to contract. The bladder wall contracting is how urine is pushed out. Good news on a happy tail wag. This bodes quite well for more nerve repair to take place with time. On graduation day JUNE 6, there should have been proof all spinal cord swelling is gone at least a week prior to graduation. That would mean off all pain meds & anti inflammatory PLUS no pain related specifically to spinal cord swelling. With proof, then it would be safe to gradually resume physical activity. Hoping to hear continued better days ahead for Cooper. |
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on May 21, 2020 9:05:02 GMT -7
Thank you very much Paula. I need to express that beyond Cooper's injury and all that entails, I am constantly in a state of confusion with multiple conflicting guidance from doctors. coupled with the covid fact that I cannot go into the vet office and ask these questions, and there's often a 48 hour delay in response time for my questions, I feel like im never clear and never getting anywhere. He has a team of doctors at his vet, two that handle his case, and two doctors at his rehab team. Being that this is all new to me and i'm truly at the mercy of these doctors. due to location convenience and stay at home orders its certainly limited my options to care. I will look at the link you provided for reference and do my due diligence for a specialist in IVDD.
At home, Cooper is not displaying signs of "significant" pain as presented by doctor this week. He is exhibiting frustration and wanting to move around constantly. I'm not a doctor, but in the past when cooper was in pain, he did not want to move at all. Spending over 6,000 and feeling frustrated beyond, but at the end of the day whatever is best for cooper will be done.
thank you all for your guidance. Extreme gratitude.
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on Jun 2, 2020 16:51:59 GMT -7
Good afternoon-
Update on Cooper:
I am proud to update that Cooper starting walking, standing and peeing on his own one week ago. I am over the moon happy and bursted out in Tears when I carried him out to potty and he got up and walked. He now wants to walk and trot all over the place but I’m keeping him confined per vets orders for 2 more weeks [Je ▲16] as his neck is sore from overcompensating. His spinal pain has resolved. Vet added metrocarbonal (sp) 3 times a day.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days
as of 5/4: ▲7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then taper test 5/11 for _pain/_neuro
Metacam as of date?: 5-7 days prednisone washout before starting?
Methocarbamol: ?mg 3x/day
Tramadol: 25mg 2x/day
gabapentin 100mg 3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 3 to 4 pills 3x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Prazison 0.5mg tab: 1 tab 2x/day
Trazodone: 25mg 2x/day
Clavamox 125mg 2x/day
Pepcid AC 10mg 1x/day
GRAD was Je 6; Je ▲16]
This Saturday Cooper started peeing blood and a lot of it. Rushed him to vet and they did tests. He has a horrible UTI and is on ✙clavamox 125my twice a day. The blood is slowing resolving but it was terrifying. He’s in good spirits.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 2, 2020 20:27:48 GMT -7
Tiffany, sorry to hear another UTI. Glad to hear the Clavamox is already doing a good job of killing the bacteria.
Is Cooper still on the long list of meds. Anything stopped or reduced?
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on Jun 3, 2020 15:09:47 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Changes to Cooper’s meds below:
Metacam as of date?: 5-7 days prednisone washout before starting? Haven’t started yet. Dr wants a washout period and for the bleeding in the urine/UTI to calm down. Most likely start next week. Will update.
Methocarbamol: 125mg 3x/day
Tramadol: 25mg 2x/day: discontinued
gabapentin 100mg 3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 1 pills 3x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Prazison 0.5mg tab: 1 tab 2x/day: discontinued
Trazodone: 25mg 2x/day: discontinued
Clavamox 125mg 2x/day
Pepcid AC 10mg 1x/day : discontinued
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days
as of 5/4: 7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then taper test 5/11 for _pain/_neuro
Methocarbamol: 125mg 3x/day
gabapentin 100mg 3x/day
Diazepam 0.5mg tab: 1x/day 3x/day
Urecholine (bethanechol). 2.5mgs 3x/day
Clavamox 125mg 2x/day
GRAD was Je 6; Je ▲16]
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Post by Tiffani & Cooper on Jun 20, 2020 16:30:04 GMT -7
 ![]() Cooper update: - UTI resolved-Cooper had a follow up appointment with his neurologist today [6/20] at animal surgery center. Dr couldn’t believe his progress from 04/11 and said “it’s a miracle.” He is out of pain, can stand, walk and urinate on his own. He is still healing and I’m very mindful to not let him jump and we take 3 quick walks outside a day so he can relieve himself. He still has issues with his right leg (torn acl) but is able to flip his paws over on right left (slight delay on right foot) he can now feel his toes per her exam today (previously he could not.) He is off all meds with the exception of ▼ gabapentin twice a day and ▼ metrocarbonal (sp?) 1/4 tab once a day. [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
21 lbs/ 9.53 kg -obese
Prednisone as of 4/17: 5mgs 2x/day, for 14 days
as of 5/4: 7.5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then taper test 5/11 for _pain/_neuro
Methocarbamol: 125mg ▼1x/day
gabapentin 100mg ▼2x/day
GRAD was Je 6; now Je 16]Cooper is happy and again living his best life. We are still working on his weight which will take pressure off the spine. His gait is not perfect and I am not letting him run as he’d like, baby steps. I would like to express my absolute gratitude for the quick response, hand holding, support and guidance of the moderators. I was in absolute trauma and exhibited confusion by multiple doctors opinions, pandemic and not being able to see the dr exams and to go inside facilities as usual, delayed dr’s callling back and from under medication, to over medicated to under over and all in between - a pharmaceutical dance. I knew that no matter the time day or night I could log in and research, read others experiences and not feel alone. I’ve learned more about IVDD than I ever imagined . Extreme gratitude for this forum and all dedication, kindness and support offered for our fur babies and , us the parents! Cooper and I thank you! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 20, 2020 18:36:58 GMT -7
Tiffani, thank you so much for letting us know how Cooper is doing. We are over the moon to hear yet again the miracle of how the body can self heal with time to bring back neuro functions and that conservative treatment can allow the disc to self heal. Thank you also for letting us know you found good value in the Forum and the moderators who helped and supported you. A wonderful group of volunteers passionate about helping IVDD dogs and their owners. AFTER REST, then what Now is a good time to be determining how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Also check out how to teach four paws on the floor! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmNow is the perfect time if you haven't already to make those home modifications so that you can reduce the stress on the spine in the future. No more stairs, ramps up to furniture, or blocking furniture all together. All those ideas and more are in this link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm**  Train your dog to use a ramp includes a "the" tip to keep them from taking a shortcut off the end of ramp:
AN INVITATION We invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. There are only less than a handful of us who regularly volunteer every day helping dogs and their owners. We could really use a helping hand from other Forum members in educating. -- Hand carry our literature and introduce us to your vet. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) to give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you our free packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm
--- Become a "Helpful Member" see more about that here: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/3277/helpful-member You did conservative treatment correctly and learned how to advocate for Cooper. If you see another member on the Forum needing support or information share what you know to be true or point them to one of our many IVDD articles over on the MAIN website. The "search box" on each website page makes quick work to find the right helpful link: www.dodgerslist.com/Please do update us periodically, we are always interested to know how things are going with Cooper. New members just starting the journey also find great inspiration to know there is life after a disc episode. |
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