PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 6, 2020 22:01:54 GMT -7
Very good to hear pain meds are working still!!!
Let us know the name of the pill paste, could be helpful to another member sometime.
With the need for a blood draw on 6/9, good to be working with the vet to make sure Ollie is drugged if need be to keep him calm.
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Jun 8, 2020 15:04:57 GMT -7
Oh and the Pill paste we are using is Vetoquinol Care Pill Wrap for dogs and cats. It is an oral paste that smells and tastes like bacon. He loves it and will even eat it if he is not feeling quite right. You use just enough to cover the pill, it doesn't take much. The Vet charged me $15 for the first container and gave me a second one for free. They say it is not something the sell (weird), but because I am a favorite I get what I want...LOL. I did find it on Chewy for $10.15, so I added it to my autoship. BEST thing in the world!! Can't believe how easy pill time is now....
So his follow up appointment has been moved to 6/10/2020. I spoke with the doctor today (6/8/2020) about the Amantadine. She she said she is willing to give this a go. She will calculate out his dosage and find out where she can get it from since he is such a little guy. She said in her experience about 60% of the patients say it works and 40% say the see no change. But said it is most definitely worth trying this out!
Ollie is still managing his pain well. He did wake up this morning shaking , but once he got his meds he felt much better. Seems like it is more abdominal pain than neck pain. Only say this because yesterday I caught him trying to roll on his back in his crate. We will be giving him a full Trasodone dose before we leave for the Vet followup on 6/10/2020. Hopefully, the Vet says he will be more relaxed and not tense up during the car ride. He hates car rides. She said if his liver/gallbladder/pancreatitis levels are not outrageous we may go back to just phone consults. [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 19 lbs / 8.62 kg Dex inj on 4/7 w/famotidine injections in hospital Prednisolone as of 4/7: in hosp ?mgs ?x/day for 1 day as of 4/8 taper dose: 2.5mgs 2x/day to test for ✓4/10 pain/_neuro as of 4/10: 5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then FRI 4/17 retest ✓4/11 pain/_ neuro as of 4/18: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days, then THURS 4/23 retest √5/3 pain/_ neuro as of 5/4: 5mg am 2.5pm for 2 days retest 5/6 as of 6/5: 5mg 2x/day for ? days then retest for _pain/_neuro methocarbamol 250mgs 3x/day tramadol 75mgs 3x/day gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day Amoxicillin 100mgs 2x/day Metronidazole 125mgs 1x/day Cerenia 30mgs 1x/day Trazodone 50mgs 1x/day famotidine 5mgs 2x/day]
Baby steps, but things are going pretty good. Told the Vet the IVDD/Pancreatitis I am not afraid of. Been there done that with more than one dog. But add in the other ailments that I am not familiar with (gallbladder/liver) and then I start to get a bit stressed. But staying upbeat and Ollie seems to be a trooper.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 8, 2020 15:52:20 GMT -7
Dawn, thank for the pill paste name.
Hope the addition of amantadine will provide dose to dose pain relief for Ollie. Worth trying that he will be in the group that benefits from it.
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Jun 14, 2020 5:36:22 GMT -7
So, Ollie’s doctor appointment on 6/10/20 went wonderfully. His abdomen and neck were not tender on palpitation. And gallbladder and pancreatitis is under control. Giving him a dose of Trasodone a couple hours before leaving made him super relaxed on the car ride. There will be no changes in meds yet. We are doing a phone consult on 6/19/20 and the Vet will discuss the step down in meds if he is continuing to do better. He is felling very good with no pain, enough so he is crying to get out of his crate.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 14, 2020 13:00:21 GMT -7
Dawn, what a good report on Ollie's health!!!! CALMERS Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives (ACE, alprazolam or trazodone). Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is: --DOG Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/Use diffusor with one oral calmer from below:Oral calmers: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed www.virbacvet.com/products/detail/anxitane-l-theanine-chewable-tablets/behavioral-health 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. www.vetriscience.com/composure-soft-dogs-MD-LD.php Also consider some of these ideas in helping Ollie to be able to relax in his recovery suite: -- Many members have found a pet stroller to solve the whining problem because the stroller can be wheeled from room to room as you go about your activities. Many dogs really like being up high to survey their home. Pet strollers, however, should only be used when you are directly supervising. More details on strollers: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/strollers.htm-- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate. -- Nan Arthur, CDBC, CPDT, KPACTP: According to the book "Stress in Dogs" by Martina Scholz & Clarissa von Reinhardt, the most well-behaved dogs get 17 or more hours of rest and sleep per day. Teaching self-calming exercises can also help your dog to relax more. You can make something as simple as eye contact a very rewarding behavior that also acts as a way for your dog to “ask permission” when he wants something. When dogs have a focus and an understanding about how to behave to get what they want, they are much calmer overall. To do this, each time your dog looks at you, say, something like, “Yes!” or use a clicker to mark the second he looks at you, and then give your dog a very tiny piece of high-value food reward. OR choose lo-cal small piece of apple, carrot. OR use kibble subtracted from his normal daily portion to prevent gaining weight from too many treats. [NOTE: for crate resting dogs, shift your body a bit] .... wait for your dog to look up at you again, say, “Yes,” and reward again. Do this exercise 10 or so times and then say, “All done,” and put the treats away. Come back later and do it again until you can see that your dog is really starting to make automatic eye contact in hopes you will say, “Yes,” again and give him his reward. -- At night, try placing a wire crate on a sturdy bedside table to sleep next to you. -- During the day try the coffee table or the dinning room table so there will be a view out a window and a better perspective on what is going on in the house from a high if the stroller idea does not work for you. -- Make his recovery suite more cozy by draping a blanket over part of the top. Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows.
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Jun 15, 2020 8:34:31 GMT -7
Ollie's crate is actually on wheels. I wheel him around to whatever room I am in. But he is getting the 5 pm to 9 pm crazies again. Again that is the time of Daddy coming home and dinner time. I have tried the DAP diffusers before but they did not work with him. I will try some of the soft chews you have suggested as I would like to see him off the Trasodone also! Thanks
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 15, 2020 9:06:38 GMT -7
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Jun 17, 2020 5:37:48 GMT -7
So I picked up the Amantadine from the Vet. It is in liquid form. Any tips on how to get him to take it? He flat out refused to let me squirt it in his mouth. I put it in his food but then he only ate half of his meal.
So add this to his list of meds he is currently on: ✙Amantadine Syrup 1.7ml once daily. First dose given on 6/17/2020.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 19 lbs / 8.62 kg Dex inj on 4/7 w/famotidine injections in hospital Prednisolone as of 4/10: 5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, then 4/17 retest ✓4/11 pain/_ neuro as of 4/18: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days, then 4/23 retest √5/3 pain/_ neuro as of 5/4: 5mg am 2.5pm for 2 days retest 5/6 as of 6/5: 5mg 2x/day for TBA? days then retest for _pain/_neuro methocarbamol 250mgs 3x/day tramadol 75mgs 3x/day gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day ✙Amantadine ?mgs/mL: ?mg (1.7mL) 1x/day Amoxicillin 100mgs 2x/day Metronidazole 125mgs 1x/day Cerenia 30mgs 1x/day Trazodone 50mgs 1x/day famotidine 5mgs 2x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 17, 2020 7:36:30 GMT -7
Dawn, is the Amantadine something that was compounded by a veterinary pharmacy where they would use a chicken or other dog approved taste? If the brand name syrup was made for people it may have something distasteful to a dog.
How many mgs of Amantidine are contained in one mL of the liquid. That info should be on the bottle?
IF the dose in mgs prescribed could be the tablet form (100mgs tablet), then perhaps splitting a 100 mgs tablet into 1/4 would be feasible? ?
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Jun 21, 2020 13:34:14 GMT -7
Okay, so we solved the problem of him taking the Amantadine. We mix it with a tablespoon of pumpkin and he eats it up! My bottle does not say how much mg is in a dose.
On 6/21/20 we had a phone follow up with the doctor. Ollie is doing wonderfully! No pain in his neck or abdomen. She has made the following med changes:
Gabapentine 100mg - No change, 3x a day ▼Prednisolone 5mg - CHANGE, 1 1/2 tablets daily (1 tablet am, 1/2 tablet pm ) Famotidine 10mg - No change - 1/2 tablet every 12 hrs Amoxicilin 100mg - No change - 1 tablet every 12 hrs (Until bottle is finished) ▼Tramodol 50mg - CHANGE - 1 1/2 tablets every 12 hrs (previously it was 3x a day) ▼Methocarbomol 500mg - CHANGE - 1/2 tablet every 12 hrs (previously it was 3x a day) Urosdiol 250mg - No change, 1/2 tablet daily (until bottle is finished) Metronidazole 250mg - No change, 1/2 tablet daily (until bottle is finished) Trasodone 50mg - CHANGE - up to 1 tablet daily depending on anxiety level. I have been giving him only 1/2 tablets. Amantadine - No change, (Liquid) 1.7ml once daily
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 19 lbs / 8.62 kg Dex inj on 4/7 w/famotidine injections in hospital Prednisolone 6/4 relapse as of 6/5: 5mg 2x/day for 16 days then 6/21 taper for _pain/_neuro methocarbamol 250mgs ▼2x/day tramadol 75mgs ▼2x/day gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day ✙Amantadine ?mgs/mL: ?mg (1.7mL) 1x/day Amoxicillin 100mgs 2x/day Metronidazole 125mgs 1x/day Trazodone 50mgs 1x/day famotidine 5mgs 2x/day]
Next phone consult is in 10 days...7/1/2020.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 21, 2020 19:31:25 GMT -7
The prednisone taper is starting along with a weaning off of of pain meds.
Your job again, is to monitor for any hint of pain surfacing and report to the vet. Hope this taper will prove to be successful in having got rid of all painful swelling in the spinal cord. Keep us posted! ! !
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Jul 1, 2020 5:38:59 GMT -7
So just had Ollie’s 7/1/2020 phone consult. He is doing wonderfully with no pain or other issues. Starting today 7/1/2020 through 7/7/2020 he will only get his ▼Tramadol and ▼Methocarbamol once daily. Tramadol 50mg dose is 1 1/2 tablets a day. Methocarbamol 500mg 1/2 tablet daily.
If he continues to do well on this step down for 1 week we will step down on the Predisolone. So starting 7/8/2020 he will step down to 1 ▼Predisolone 5mg a day.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 19 lbs / 8.62 kg Dex inj on 4/7 w/famotidine injections in hospital Prednisolone 6/4 relapse as of 6/5: 5mg 2x/day for 33 days then 7/8 test taper for _pain/_neuro methocarbamol 250mgs ▼1x/day tramadol 75mgs ▼1x/day gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day Amantadine ?mgs/mL: ?mg (1.7mL) 1x/day Amoxicillin 100mgs 2x/day Metronidazole 125mgs 1x/day Trazodone 50mgs 1x/day famotidine 5mgs 2x/day]
I am beyond excited about his progress, but not out of the woods yet. I think his neck was probably doing much better a month ago, but was being masked by the other issues. Once the other issues were addressed we have seen a wonderful recovery start. Lesson learned that don’t put your blinders on and always try to think outside of the box. I wish they could talk, we could of found this out much sooner!
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 1, 2020 6:10:41 GMT -7
Good news, Dawn! WTG, Ollie!
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Jul 8, 2020 18:30:03 GMT -7
So Ollie started his next step down today 7/8/20. We have lowered his Predisolone to one 5mg pill a day. He has been doing wonderfully on the last med step down. With they way he is acting (his normal obnoxious self) I do not anticipate any issues with this step down. His next phone follow up is in 7 days (7/15/20).
We stopped the Trasodone on 7/2/20. He still gets a bit reactive early evening/night in crate, but nothing that is too stressful. You can see his personality again coming back!
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 19 lbs / 8.62 kg Dex inj on 4/7 w/famotidine injections in hospital Prednisolone 6/4 relapse as of 6/5: 5mg 2x/day for 33 days then 7/8 test taper for _pain/_neuro methocarbamol 250mgs 1x/day tramadol 75mgs 1x/day gabapentin 100mgs 3x/day Amantadine ?mgs/mL: ?mg (1.7mL) 1x/day Amoxicillin 100mgs 2x/day Metronidazole 125mgs 1x/day famotidine 5mgs 2x/day]
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 9, 2020 9:38:10 GMT -7
Fingers crossed for a successful taper off of pred. At the point when the pain meds have been fully stopped, you will have the answer as to if all painful swelling is actually gone. Let us know when the gabapentin is to be also backed off.
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Post by Dawn & Ollie on Aug 6, 2020 12:29:20 GMT -7
So on 7/11/2020 we had to up his pred to 7mg a day (5mg in the am/2.5mg in the pm). He was showing signs of abdominal discomfort. The Doctor believes what is going on now is all his gallbladder issues as he has not pain in neck or spine. She feels all the meds he has been on had been masking other issues that had come up. So as we stepped down off certain meds those issues began to show themselves. [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 19 lbs / 8.62 kg Dex inj on 4/7 w/famotidine injections in hospital Prednisolone 6/4 relapse as of 6/5: 5mg 2x/day for 33 days then 7/8 test taper for _pain/_neuro as of 7/11: 7mgs 1x/day for abdominal discomfort as of 7/27: 5mgs 1x/day STOPPED crate rest on 7/16 as relapse was thought to be gallbladder pain not disc related tramadol 75mgs 1x/day gabapentin 100mgs ▼2x/day Amantadine ?mgs/mL: ?mg (1.7mL) 1x/day Amoxicillin 100mgs 2x/day Metronidazole 125mgs 1x/day famotidine 5mgs 2x/day]So fast forward to 7/27/2020...The Doctor stepped down on the Methocarbamol and Tramadol to once a day and the Pred to 5mgs once a day. He has been doing wonderfully so on 8/6/2020 we have done another step down. He is now off the Methorcarbamol completely and his ▼ Gabapentin is down to twice a day. If he does well with this step down on 8/11/2020 we will step down the Pred to 2.5mg a day for 10 days. So I will be calling the doctor back on 8/12/2020 to discuss the next steps. He has had no signs of pain in the neck and no knuckling. He has been off crate rest for about 3 weeks. He still spends time in a crate throughout the day due to the fact we have other dogs he does not get along with, (they take turns being out). He has gone out leashed in the yard to walk around but that has been very limited. She does not want him going on long walks, but is okay with short controlled walks to get him out and stimulated. She does feel she may keep him on the Gabapentin for while even after the rest of the meds are stopped just due to his history. How do you feel about that?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 6, 2020 13:19:36 GMT -7
I am very happy to hear how well Ollie is doing. You are right to keep him crated if the other dogs might play too enthusiastically. Controlled walks are an excellent form of physical therapy when the dog has finished crate rest.
There are some dogs that must stay on medication long term. However, gabapentin is a medication that kicks in quickly. If the gabapentin were to be stopped, you would be able to watch for signs of pain and then start the gabapentin again immediately if pain emerges. All meds have side effects and no one wants a dog on meds that are not really needed. This way you would know.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 6, 2020 16:46:37 GMT -7
Dawn, with several issues going on, it can be difficult to zero in on the real culprit for pain, the right diagnosis. Now that he has graduated, you may find some good ideas for living with Ollie many happy years ahead: GRADUATION, A SLOW RE-INTRODUCTION Determine how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free riegn of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan with your vet to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Here is a sample schedule to slowly introduce your dog back to family life and physical activity: dodgerslist.com/2020/06/15/back-friendly/ ♥️Make your home back friendly to reduce stress on the spine, no more steps -- Furniture Blockers- dodgerslist.com/2020/07/09/home-protect-ivdd-backs/ **  ♥️Have some fun with Ollie too! dodgerslist.com/2020/06/16/have-fun-nose-work/♥️plus many more gems of living with an IVDD dog: dodgerslist.com/living-with-ivdd-tips/
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