Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 7, 2020 7:42:15 GMT -7
Emily, did the vet explain his reasoning as to why he wants Zeus to have such a long course of Novox? If he believes there may still be swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine (which is the cause of the pain), why did he stop the Tramadol and Robaxin? Did you discuss a test stop of all meds to see if there is still swelling/pressure on the spine/pain?
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Feb 7, 2020 15:09:21 GMT -7
No to all above. The vet techs called me to tell me about wanting to do those two medications for two weeks. When my husband went to go get the meds, the vet was out on lunch.
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Feb 9, 2020 16:18:44 GMT -7
Can gabapentin hinder a dogs ability to walk well? I’ve seen some people talking about this on IVDD Facebook groups and that their dogs walked worse after taking it then before. Zeus has been on it for three weeks and will be on it for close to two more...I’m worried that this might be why we aren’t seeing him walk consistently but I could also be paranoid.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,530
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 9, 2020 16:26:07 GMT -7
Emily, it is best to "vet" the source of information when it comes from Social Media. Often times that means best way to seek information on the meds your dog is on would be from an expert. I have bookmarked the Mar Vista Veterinary Drug index to use for this purpose. Gabapentin direct link: www.marvistavet.com/gabapentin.pml Mar Vista Drug index to bookmark: www.marvistavet.com
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 9, 2020 21:02:37 GMT -7
Emily, my Nala has chronic pain and has been taking gabapentin at a low dose for years.
It's never affected her walking.
My Perry had taken gabapentin during an IVDD episode. No ill effects with walking.
Any drug needs to be treated with respect as to possible side effects and how it should be taken.
That said, gabapentin works well for IVDD.
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Mar 1, 2020 20:29:19 GMT -7
6 week update - Zeus is off all meds. No signs of pain! He is still having diarrhea so we sent his stool to a specialist lab and should hear back tomorrow (3/2). The vet has ruled out stress, food, treats, etc. Zeus is sleeping a lot more now and only freaking out if we leave the room and he notices in between naps. He’s sleeping through the night and we don’t have messes in the kennel any longer. He’s standing up in the kennel, his tail is wagging a lot, he’s turning himself around and he’s trying to use his legs. However, he still needs the sling outside and I’m thinking there’s no way he will be back to walking on his own in two weeks.
I need suggestions for joint supplements that will help keep his back strong, suggestions for helping him build back muscle, and suggestions for how we can care for him as he drags himself along a bit (he will most likely be walking but falling over every so often).
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,530
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 1, 2020 21:03:14 GMT -7
Emily, wonderful to hear off all medsd and no pain. Sounds like will be smooth sailing for the disc to be able to graduate on March 15th. Hope the lab result can pinpoint the cause of diareah. Zeus can get those back legs to move up in to a stand position with out help? Wow! that is nice nerve healing going on. And he is tryng to walk with the back legs at potty time? I think by graduation day when it will be safe for the disc, you can start some important PT for Zeus. You would not be letting Zeus have free reign of the house nor outdoor in the yard. YOu'd be with him and doing some sling walking as PT in the house to start with and other things we can point you to. As well as protection for paws, etc. You will have a lot better idea as graduation day approaches where Zeus will then be neurologically. What keeps the spine supported are the core muscles. It is exercise that you would be able to do after graduation that keeps those muscles strong. You can read about supplements here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Supplements.htm
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Mar 1, 2020 21:13:06 GMT -7
Could you pinpoint more information I can read about exercise, PT, and coming off crate rest? I was under the impression he’d be completely off crate rest at 8 weeks so clearly I need to get on the same page with that.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,530
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 2, 2020 9:50:35 GMT -7
Emily, the reason for a gradual introduction back to physical exercise is Zeus has been a couch potatoe for many weeks. He should not go from no excercise to 50 yard dashes. If he were to be painful from over exercising then you would not be clear if the pain would be due to muscle soreness or possibly a new disc problem. So for example, the first week of graduation would be PT of sling walking him once in his potty area outside where he would be allow many more footsteps to take care of business. Inside the house PT might look like this: 1st week of graduation Mon-Tues- 1 min up and down hallway ( 4-8 yards in total) on carpet 1x back in crate observe, no signs of soreness? then:... Wed 1 min up and down hallway 3x a day Thurs-Sat 1 min up and down hallway 4-5x a day. On graduation day, depending Zeus' neuro improvement we may have other suggestions for you. Foot/paw protection has a discussion over on the graduate board you may want to get some ideas on: dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/1564/footwear-harnesses-scooting-garmentsPaw Protection Caution: avoid too tightly securing booties on paw that would restrict blood circulation. One option is self-adhering bandages wrap tape from the grocery store. Again don't wrap too tightly. Goes by several names, here's one: Barbara Techel's glove bootie idea:
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Mar 7, 2020 8:32:32 GMT -7
Should his back right paw still be knuckling 7 weeks into crate rest? That’s the one he can’t really put weight on still
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,530
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 7, 2020 8:46:48 GMT -7
Emily, your Zeus has really made quite some stride in nerve healng since January!! It will just take allowing his body to see how much more nerve healing and when that might happen.
Knuckling is due to nerve damage in the spinal cord. Crate rest of 8 weeks is how long it takes a disc to heal. Nerve healing is typically the slowest part of the body to heal. So there may or may not be nerve healing or complete nerve healling in the short 8 weeks it takes for the disc to heal.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Mar 7, 2020 9:34:26 GMT -7
When Zeus has graduated from crate rest it might be worth looking into cold laser therapy. It helps promote blood flow and I found it helpful with my older dog, Nala, when recovering from an IVDD episode.
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Mar 18, 2020 6:52:13 GMT -7
Zeus graduated last Sunday and today (3/18) we are starting cold laser therapy. He’s doing great standing but still needs lots of assistance walking on his own despite the days I’ve spent doing the PT listed from a post above. I know it takes time but he’s still crated most of the day due to his inability to walk.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,530
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 18, 2020 8:22:40 GMT -7
Glad you are aware it may take time for walking on his own to happen. Part of the very gradual intro back to physical activity can also include being outside of the crate on his own while you supervise. He will likely scoot, but that will be like freedom and spiritually very good for him! Take a look at our "After Crate Rest Page, Then What" for a sample schedule, what you can do to protect fur/skin for a scooting dog and much more: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmWhen a dog can move their legs, they may not like you doing all the exercises shown in video below. So just do those he is ok with. The massage things shown, most all dog LOVE...who doesn't love a nice muscle stimulating but relaxing hands on massage! Let us which ones Zeus is OK with. Only for Conservative graduates or for Post-op PT for the paralyzed IVDD dog:
If in your budget, underwater treadmill therapy is extremely valuable. Also an option is at home water therapy where you incorporate the principals from the video below. At home water therapy: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htmThe movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again.
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Mar 18, 2020 11:11:08 GMT -7
I allowed him to walk around a little on his own while I supervise but he eventually falls (his back end falls to the side) and I was under the impression this can be more harmful than good - but I also want him to be able to learn to use those muscles again. Is it okay for him to fall like that? He’s not scooting necessarily.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Mar 18, 2020 13:05:28 GMT -7
My dog Frankie went through a period like that when he was recovering. He would walk for a while and then fall over. I had used a figure 8 sling with him earlier, when he had to be sling walked. As his walking improved, I continued to have this on him but held it loosely. I made sure his feet were touching the ground and he was actually doing the walking. This worked out well because if he started to tip over, I was able to keep him upright with the sling.
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