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Post by Sarah & Beau on Jan 6, 2020 11:04:15 GMT -7
he is off the methocarbamol. He has been off since December 31. She said to keep him on it but did not say anything about taking him off on the taper. I want to take him off the medicines to see if there is any pain left since he has been on it for so long. I know since he is worse than before it could be longer to reduce the pain and swelling. But she did tell me to try ROM on him etc I have noticed sometimes in the morning his belly seemed a little distended and when I try to express he cries a different cry but this is SOMETIMES not all. I just want my baby comfortable.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 6, 2020 11:29:29 GMT -7
ROM would wait til off all meds and no signs of pain.
Let us know the date for the last dose of the pred taper and if gabapentin can be stopped today so you can get a good read about pain.
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Post by Sarah & Beau on Jan 15, 2020 13:57:43 GMT -7
Welp! Beau is completely off all of his medications. He does not yelp or cry and doesn't seem in any type of pain. He still has no use of his back end or bladder control. I have been doing range of motion, stretching, scratching etc on his back legs. He has lost some weight but its more muscle mass what the Vet said. I have noticed that tickling his paws he pushes out faster than before sometimes I see a tail wag and he pulls his feet in when I tickle in between the pads. I have put baby sleep sacks on his so he can scoot around and try to be a normal dog. He looks perky again like he usually does not being on any medication. I am still going to work with him and still look into acupuncture/Chinese herbals and maybe chiropractic and/or some wheels but all in all he seems good. I try to keep hope that he will at least get bowl/bladder sensation back. I have pinched his toes and the reaction is quicker than before but not the reaction the Vet's look for.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 15, 2020 14:06:18 GMT -7
Sarah, Beau does NOT graduate until Jan 20. YOu are jumping the gun in not giving him every chance at healing his disc. During conservative treatment until graduation day, ONLY the VERY, very mildest of range of motion and massage can be done. Please take the time to learn exactly how mild and howto do those exercises. When off of all meds and no pain, the little yellow icon (ROM: no med, no pain) under your dog's photo is a reminder to tell you about starting some very, very light least aggressive range of motion (ROM). We have a very good article by a veterinary professional and a video to help you care for paralyzed legs to keep the joints from freezing up and maintain muscle circulation while still keeping to the principles of limited movement to the back during conservative treatment. Keep in mind the very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage will be necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all pain meds and no more signs of pain The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk . www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmNO scooting around. He is still on STRICT crate rest til graduation day!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 15, 2020 14:09:06 GMT -7
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Post by Sarah & Beau on Jan 27, 2020 7:30:47 GMT -7
Thank you for all the information. I truly love this group. It is very informative and helpful. He has been doing pretty well except for not being able to walk he is back to his old self. What exactly is spinal walking? Sometimes I can see him try to push up on his back legs but can't. Also, how do I try to improve muscle strength in his back end? I am going to try acupuncture as I want to see if I can at least get him to use the bathroom on his own. I am trying to think positive about him. I apologize it has taken so long to get back. I finished reading and watching the information is super helpful. thank you
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 27, 2020 10:38:39 GMT -7
Sarah, congratulations on making sure the disc has now healed after 8 weeks of rest. Now Beau has graduated!!! And excellent to hear you have been reading and watching to learn all you can about Beau's disease. Kudos to you! Now, the time has arrived to implement a schedule of to easing him back into more normal activity. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Exercises after graduation of conservative treatment--- for the dog with paralyzed legs: Appropriate physical therapy can help maintain the muscles with lost nerve connection. Therapy keeps muscles in optimal condition while in wait to receive regenerating axon terminals.
You will want to consider how you will prevent rug burns from scooting. Here are some sew and no-sew options www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htm#garments some dogs scoot like a frog with legs in front:
others scoot like a seal with legs behind: Spinal walking is what some dogs can figure out to do. Those dogs who have lost the last of the neuro functions and no longer able to appreciate any sensations way deep in the middle of the spinal cord— does not have deep pain sesnation (DPS) might be able to learn how to spinal walk with reflexes only. With Beau attempting to move up into a stand with the back legs then CLEARLY he does have deep pain sensation! If underwater treadmill is available in your area and budget is tight for acupuncture/laser AND underwater treadmill, then $$ are best spent with the treadmill therapy. Here is why: The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again. Take the principals learned from the video above and you can apply some of the at home with a $10 child's blow up wading pool. READING reference: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htmBladder control. This neuro function typically returns before leg function has returned. So you might try periodically FIRST taking him outdoors for the sniff and pee test. The only way for humans to know if there is bladder control is with the “sniff and pee test.” Carry outdoors, set them on an old pee spot to sniff. Make sure the sling or your hands are not on the tummy area as that can press on the bladder. See if they will release urine on the old urine area. If urine comes out after sniffing, bladder control is returning. You should continue to do a quick express check to verify there is full voiding until you are certain it is consistently happening. Let us know what you observe.
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Post by Sarah & Beau on Feb 6, 2020 12:34:08 GMT -7
Thank you for everyones support. So I have been doing the ROM exercises and massaging his legs etc and when I do his legs tend to shake like crazy and also when I rub his pads or massage/scratch his legs he hard kicks back at me. But when I put pressure on both of his feet pushing down they go right down with no resistance. He is still incontinent but happy dog. I do allow him to scoot around and I am looking into acupuncture and wheels for him.
also, I cannot find a diaper that he will keep on. I have tried male and female diapers and he manages to get them off....any suggestions>?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 6, 2020 14:41:10 GMT -7
I am glad to hear that Beau is a happy dog. Really he is just moving from place to place in a different way.
Many dogs love their carts. Always start out with his legs down and see what he does. – many dogs use their carts as walkers. If Beau is one of these, make sure that the cart is set at a weight-bearing stance, so he can feel his feet touching the ground and use them for traction.
Sometimes when dogs gets a cart, they re-learn how to walk when they are in it. Then they start getting stronger and began walking when they aren't in the cart
Is he wearing diapers because you are having trouble fully expressing his bladder? Have you had any success with the sniff and pee test?
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Post by Sarah & Beau on Feb 7, 2020 6:49:09 GMT -7
So I have been doing the ROM exercises and massaging his legs etc and when I do his legs tend to shake like crazy and also when I rub his pads or massage/scratch his legs he hard kicks back [reflexes] at me. But when I put pressure on both of his feet pushing down they go right down with no resistance [nerve damage not yet self repaired].. Is any of this a good sign or is this just natural?
I put diapers on him because sometimes he just starts peeing when I pick him up or pees in his cage. I try to express him every 4-5 hours even more so on the weekends when I am home from work. I do put drag bags on him so he can scoot around but I am wondering if it is too much on his upper body so I try to put a sling on his back legs so he can attempt to walk normal even though his legs don't move in the back.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 7, 2020 7:33:12 GMT -7
Hi, Sarah. If you're expressing every 4-5 hours or more and Beau is still leaking when picked up or peeing in his crate, it may be that his bladder is not being completely emptied when expressed. It can take some time to become proficient at expressing, I know it took quite a bit of time for me. What I found was happening with my Jeremy was that his bladder was slipping away from me and he felt flat so I thought his bladder was empty but it had moved. I learned that I could usually find his bladder back near his pelvic area and could then keep expressing until it was empty. After realizing that, I now try to keep his bladder a bit ahead of my fingers and push it from behind so it doesn't slip away. Be sure that you get a couple of good squirts of urine when expressing and keep pressing until there are just dribbles and the bladder feels flat almost like your fingers are touching. Sometimes it helps to pause a 10-20 seconds between each pressing for the bladder to reform and you can get more urine out that way. Don't hesitate to get another hands-on-your-hands demonstration on how to express from your vet. Urine that lies for too long in the bladder can lead to UTIs so you do want to get to the point where you can completely empty the bladder each time you express. More on expressing here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmAs for movement of the legs during exercise, that may be due to reflex. Shaking of the legs is most likely from the nerve damage. What you want to look for is brain to nerve connection, such as moving his legs to re-position himself or to try to stand or to try to scratch his head, where his brain is telling his legs to move. Sling walking Beau is good therapy as are the other ROM and massage exercises. You're doing a great job caring for Beau. It's very early days in his healing process so stay strong and hopeful.
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