Shawn & Bruno
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M - Dachshund .. Bruno puppy ....Newman RIP
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 3, 2019 21:01:20 GMT -7
[Original thread: Newman (No Walk but deep pain sensation) - Conservative] My son Newman is almost 15 years old and has a l ong history of IVDD including 4 major episodes such as dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/2689/shawns-newman-conversative-relapse-liver After learning and installing ramps, we've been able to keep him safe with a few hiccups here and there. He generally sleeps all day but loves to check out the kids (5 and 2) during dinner time to see what scraps he can get. His had a few teeth removed and sleeps quite a lot so he has trouble maintaining weight at 8.8lbs so I cook chicken/rice/veggies for him with some turkey and ham mixed in. We have a sunken living room with cushioned steps and a ramp up and down the couch. He LOVES the couch ad the bed. He does have some spurts of fun time and will RUN outside after I get home from work. On Thursday, Oct 31 evening, Newman started to walk a bit funny. He went up the ramp on the couch and slept for an hour or so and then came down the ramp for potty and started to wobbly walk. We brought him outside and the wobbly walking got worse and within minutes, he could not walk at all. We immediately gave him .25MG (1/2 tablet) of DEX and Methocarbamol, and a bit of pepcid for the tummy and went to the Animal Hospital Friday morning. The doctor whom I've dealt with for years including IVDD treatments said he has deep pain sensation and does not recommend surgery while opting for a conservative approach. They performed xrays and a ton of blood work. The vet commented that he has the vertebrae of a 5 year old and in "remarkable" health especially for the age. Since Newman is a tough dog and has always pulled through in the past, he was hopeful. He got an injectable DEX, pain medication, and gastro meds while receiving daily cold laser treatments and shock wave therapy.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 8.8 lbs Dex injection on 11/1 in clinic Dex as of 10/31: 0.25mgs 1x/day in clinic as of 11/3: 0.25mgs 1x/day for ? days, then test taper to reveal any _pain/ _neuro diminishment methocarbamol ? mgs ?x/day Pepcid AC ? mgs ?x/day ] It's been under 48 hours and while he is able to pick himself up a bit. he still doesn't flip any of his rear paws over. Every single episode, Newman would go back to wobbly walking within 2-4 days and nearly back to 100% after the crate rest so I am a bit concerned at this point. I purchased the Gingerlead from Amazon ( www.amazon.com/dp/B00GPYF8A2/ref=twister_B07PZFHCTX?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 ) due to the reviews and the small pad width so he doesn't have accidents. I am a pessimist by nature but hoping and praying for him.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 4, 2019 5:45:23 GMT -7
I'm sorry to hear that Newman is having a more severe disc episode this time, Shawn. You took immediate action by crating Newman and getting him to the vet so there's every hope that Newman will recover. Recovery depends on how badly the nerves were damaged. Nerves can take a very long time to heal, sometimes months, even a year or more. So hang in there and stick to the very strict crate rest for the full 8 weeks. It will help us work together with you and avoid offering ideas that could cause harm or lead the discussion in the wrong direction delaying help for your dog — please share a bit more detail with us: ❖1 Is there still currently pain? ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. If not in control your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds. Neuropathic pain is not common but you should be aware of it. This kind of pain is abnormal, phantom pain sensations with severe spinal cord damage. Signs are obsessive licking of paw, leg, genitals, tail. Escalates to biting, life-threatening chewing off parts. Immediately put on an e-collar (or lengthwise folded towel around neck and duct taped closed) to prevent access to lower body. Contact vet immediately for Gabapentin or stronger Lyrica (pregabalin) for neuropathic pain. More info: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/neuropathy.pdf❖2 …A Please list the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and times per day given.…B What is the date of steroid taper? ❖3 GI Tract problems? —Eating and drinking OK? No nausea/not eating, no vomit? —Poops OK? Normal firmness & color -no dark black or bright red blood indicating bleeding ulcers? No diarrhea? ❖4 Just as a refresher as to how conservative treatment works:The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc ◼︎At home laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment. ❖5 Can Newman specifically sniff and squat and then release urine which is bladder control – OR- do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted which are indication of an overflowing bladder and loss of bladder control? Overflowing bladders need to be expressed to avoid UTIs. Review video then get a hands-on-top-of-your-hands expressing lesson. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmDOGs with BLADDER CONTROL: Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg  ❖6 Currently can Newman move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you specifically do some happy talk? ❖7 Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist surgeon: ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho?Healing prayers for Newman
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Shawn & Bruno
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M - Dachshund .. Bruno puppy ....Newman RIP
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 4, 2019 7:49:44 GMT -7
Thank you greatly for all your help. This forum has gotten me through very tough times and I am iternally grateful. ❖1 Is there still currently pain? No. He is still at the vet probably until the end of the week for observation and other tests. The vet/myself are very clear on pain management. I get 2x a day updates and it always starts with pain management. ❖2 …A Please list the exact names of meds currently given, [Shawn] - Unknown until I get the instructions when he comes home. The vet started with injectable DEX on Friday and then switched to prednisone (dosage unknown) on Saturday as he prefers the conservative approach. Sat night, I insisted on DEX (instead of prednisone) as Newman has always responded well with DEX. Last night, I found out he is on the 'conservative' .25MG daily DEX and I asked for .5MG DEX as that is the dosage that has always worked for each of Newman's episodes. Does it matter if this is a 15 year old 8.8lbs Newman vs. a 7 year old 10.5lbs Newman? ❖3 GI Tract problems? —Eating and drinking OK?[Shawn] - The vet mentioned meds for GI tract. He is 'comfortable' and eating/drinking very well (I bring deli chicken/ham which he loves) and using the potty without issues. And, we will be doing 8 weeks of crate rest like previous issues. ❖5 Can Newman specifically sniff and squat and then release urine which is bladder control? [Shawn] - Yes, he has complete control of bladder.❖6 Currently can Newman move the legs at all? [Shawn] - The vet said he can pull himself up and walk a foot or so. He doesn't flip his paw to the flat orientation either at this point. He will wag his tail. ❖7 Is the vet a general DVM or a specialist surgeon?[Shawn August] - General DVM but their facilities is state-of-the-art if that means anything - www.wwrvh.com/pet-rehabilitation Westwood location. Newman (when he walks again...) has access to an inground swimming pool and water therapy
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 4, 2019 8:23:17 GMT -7
Shawn, steroids are dosed according to the dog's weight. So the vet will determine the correct dose in mgs.
Do know that Dexamethazone is one of the STRONGEST of steroids and thus is notorious in the medical community for the damage to the stomach lining it can do. "Dexamethose ranked worst, with dogs given dex before surgery experiencing 11 times likelier urinary tract infections and 3.5 times as likely diarrhea" Levine JM, Levine GJ, et al. Adverse effects and outcome associated with dexamethasone administration in dogs with acute thoracolumbar intervertebral disk herniation: 161 cases (2000-2006). J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2008;232:411-417.
While for an initial dose Dex in some cases, the more usual is to use Prednisone at the anti-inflammatory dose range.
Newman's return of neuro function bodes quite well for more nerve self repair to take place!!!!
As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. Already Newman has moved far upwards on the list to be able to take a few wobbly steps!! 1. Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord ▲2. YES !!Wobbly footsteps but back paws still knuckling under 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) ▲7. YES Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. ▲8. YES!! Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy.
Please keep us posted, we are very excited how well Newman is doing.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 4, 2019 9:22:44 GMT -7
I mentioned .5MG DEX because the previous episodes were handled by a neurologist who prescribed .5MG DEX SID. In fact, Newman always responded with .5MG and not .25MG.
And, thank you. Newman bounced back with NOTICEABLE improvement within 3-4 days every-time and I don't see that now so I am very concerned. I do realize he is 15 and on a lower DEX dosage so hopefully we need additional time and/or higher dosage.
Any concerns with the sling above?
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 4, 2019 10:56:05 GMT -7
The Gingerlead is a good sling product. You’ll have to see how he likes it. Some dogs don’t like anything near the penis during pottytime. In that case you might give the figure 8 sling a try. It is a DYI project.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 4, 2019 12:08:15 GMT -7
I just visited Newman at the vet to drop off some chicken cold cuts and see how he is progressing. I had a good 15 minute conversation with the doctor and Newman is getting the treatment! They increased his ▲ DEX to .25MG 2X per day starting last night and they are starting to give him ✙ methocarbmol. He is also getting gabapentin for pain. I forgot to ask about dosage He is getting daily therapy including cold laser treatment and had shockwave therapy. And, they even cleaned his teeth.[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 8.8 lbs Dex injection on 11/1 in clinic Dex in clinic as of 10/31: 0.25mgs 1x/day as of 11/4: 0.25mgs ▲2x/day for ? days then test taper to reveal any _pain/ _neuro diminishment ✙ methocarbamol ? mgs ?x/day Pepcid AC ? mgs ?x/day ] Newman has improved since last night and I saw it with my own eyes. He is able to flip his left paw correctly and with the help of a sling, slowly moves ALL legs back-n-forth while walking. His legs are weak and his still doesn't put the right paw down properly but he is clearly moving in the right direction. I think we are going to bring him home between wed and fri to start his 8 week crate rest. I overnighted the sling so we am ready to start the healing! I wish we were at the wobbly walking state but this is good news I believe.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 4, 2019 13:03:27 GMT -7
Shawn, very nice neuro improvement.
Do let us know that Newman did not receive an actual dental while at the Clinic. That he was not sedated, xrayed and then a dental procedure preformed.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 5, 2019 7:17:10 GMT -7
X-rays were performed to treat IVDD. They cleaned his teeth without any sedation to fix as much dental disease as they could.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 5, 2019 8:57:03 GMT -7
Shawn, for others reading this post, it is always good to keep in mind some things about dentals. With any procedure that requires anesthesia, you will want to be assured your vet and all vet techs in attendance understand the risk with an IVDD dog. ---Proper pre-medication to ensure a smooth in and out from the anesthesia. People and animals that go to sleep smooth will more often wake up smooth, those who are anxious will wake up with much more difficulty often with a flailing and fighting state of emotion. --- A dog's main defense against further disc damage is dependent upon control over the core trunk muscles – this defense is eliminated during anesthesia. Special care must be taken to ensure the dog's spine is kept in alignment as the body is turned for positioning for pictures and re-positioning during the procedure of dental or other surgery. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/precautions.htmlBehind the scenes, what takes place during a dental and how much movement to the back could take place. During a disc episode one wants to ensure there would be no extra movement of the back to cause the disc to further damage the spinal cord. Thus dentals unless there is an extreme health issue antibiotics can't tide over til the disc has healed are put off til 8 weeks of disc healing has taken place:
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Shawn & Bruno
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M - Dachshund .. Bruno puppy ....Newman RIP
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 6, 2019 11:16:40 GMT -7
Newman will be coming home Friday to start strict crate rest. The doctor are slowly doing 2-3 rehab sessions per day for slow walking and toe touching. They said it's a fine line between getting the dog used to feeling again and working his legs vs. strict crate rest. Should I be pushing for strict crate rest? One of the doctors I think slipped and said window is slightly closing as his right leg still isn't flipping over but doesn't that usually take 1-3 weeks?
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 6, 2019 13:41:33 GMT -7
Shawn there just is not any short cut to getting the disc to heal. That takes 8 weeks of limited movement- no walking around, no PT. The time for PT for paralyzed legs waits till off of all meds and no pain shows. Newman as a yellow icon to remind us to tell you how to do some very, very light PT when he is off all meds. When off of all meds and no pain, the little yellow icon (ROM: no med, no pain) under your dog's photo is a reminder to tell you about starting some very, very light least aggressive range of motion (ROM). We have a very good article by a veterinary professional and a video to help you care for paralyzed legs to keep the joints from freezing up and maintain muscle circulation while still keeping to the principles of limited movement to the back during conservative treatment. Keep in mind the very, very lightest least aggressive range of motion and leg massage will be necessary for paralyzed legs during conservative treatment once off all pain meds and no more signs of pain The information highlighted in PINK pertains to a dog who can't walk . www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmNo one will be able to tell you when the next neuro function will return. Only mother nature, time and Newman's body will give the answer as to when being able to right his paw and no longer knuckle under will happen. So there is no closing time when the knuckling will be self repaired!!! Very sorry to hear Newman has not been doing strict rest at the clnic— he should have!! Of course you should do 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out of recovery suite for a very, very few footsteps at potty time. That is how the disc heals.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 8, 2019 13:33:48 GMT -7
I picked up Newman today at noon and I was honestly expecting him to look better. He weighed 8.8lbs when he arrived but I'd guess he is around ▼ 7lbs today. The doctor isn't concerned about the weight loss and commented it is good that he is light. The weight will increase over time. We've done xray and perhaps every blood/urine test possible including negative for tick borne disease. The doctor wants to start taking him off the DEX soon so he can reevaluate. He believes the DEX is a lot for a 15 year old. I am not sure if that means he would put him back on it after the exam. He said he is optimistic and have seen these dogs pull off miracles but did say the ' window is closing especially in the next 3-5 days'. I now feel this is more the reality and they have been very conservative with their words. However, I do read that level 3 IVDD can take 1-3 weeks? It just looks soo bad right now and it's hard to realize. The notes on the discharge papers indicate "hindlimb paresis ▲ right leg improving voluntary ambulation. Left rear leg paresis deep pain present bilaterally". There has been 'slight improvement' on the left leg but I don't see it. With a sling, I did see him slowly moving left/right leg and he flips the right paw but the left looks dead to me. The said cold laser therapy 3 days a week and shockwave therapy once a week. Strict crate rest for 3-4 weeks but I will be doing the full 8. DEX @ .5MG - 1/2 tablet twice a day for 2 days; 1/2 tablet once a day for 4 days; 1/2 tablet every other day for 8 days Famotidine 10MG - 1/2 tablet once a day 30 min before meals (Is this right?) Methocarbomaol 500MG - 1/4 tablet every 8 hours for 5 days [which is during the test taper!]Dasuquin Advanced (Suppliment) - 1 tablet a day until bottle is gone Gabapentin Oral Solution (250MG/5ML) - Waiting for vet to tell me dosage [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit ▼7 lbs Dex injection on 11/1 in clinic Dex in clinic as of 10/31: 0.25mgs 1x/day as of 11/4: 0.25mgs 2x/day for 7 days as of 11/8: 0.25mgs 2x/day for 2 days, then SUN 11/10 a test taper to reveal any: _pain / _neuro methocarbamol 125 mgs 3x/day til Nov 13th! gabapentin 250mg/5mL: 40mgs (0.8mL dose) 3x/day Pepcid AC 5 mgs should be 2x/day ]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 8, 2019 14:59:27 GMT -7
I am glad that Newman is at home. Dogs do better at home. I am not sure what you vet means when he says the window is closing. Nerves take a long time to heal. It may be better to think in terms of months for him to regain function. For a very few dogs function has returned over a year. I think your vet is being overly pessimistic. No window is closing. We know this from the many dogs we have had on Dodgerslist.
DPS is hard to ascertain and sometimes can only be determined by a specialist,t but the fact that your vet says that Shawn has DPS bodes very well for his continued healing.
Dex is a very strong steroid class of medicine. We mostly see prednisone given at home. Neither Dex nor pred nor any medicine can heal nerve damage. Only time can heal that.
When Newman stops taking an anti-inflammatory, it can be a good time to test for pain by stopping the pain meds; gabapentin and methocarbamol. If no pain is seen, the inflammation that caused the pain and the neuro deficits is gone and no meds are needed. Newman will still need the remainder of his very strict 8 weeks of crate rest. Healing can and does continue to take place after the 8 weeks.
You can speak to your vet about stopping the pain meds when the anti-inflammatory is stopped. If pain is seen when the meds are stopped Newman will need more time on the anti-inflammatory, pain meds and PepcidAC.
Transporting an IVDD dog is always risky. Consider if the benefits of the laser therapy outweigh the risk of too much movement caused by transport.
Please do not be discouraged. There is a lot of healing that can still take place.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 8, 2019 17:34:27 GMT -7
Shawn, I'd also like to chime in along with Romy with some positives to put things better in perspective for you. It is terribly difficult to have a positive outcome until one has had a chance to bone up on IVDD. This is why we highly recommend doing some homework. As soon as you can, do take time to ease your mind over at the main Dodgerslist website www.dodgerslist.com Specifically go to the IVDD 101 page here: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmThings good to know: -- NERVE HEALING There is no such thing as a window of 3-5 days for nerve healing to happen in. Absolute poppycock! People that know nerve healing know this — Nerve growth is one millimeter per day. So a twelve inch nerve span damage requires year or so to grow. How much does Newman need to self heal his nevers NO ONE KNOWS! But in general you ought to be thinking in terms of months rather than days/weeks. -- PEPCID AC Dex is very hard on the GI tract. Be sure you give 5mgs Pepcid AC (famtodine) every 12 hours. Give it 30 mins before Dex. Give the Dex with some food as added protection. -- DEX TAPER TEST The dex taper starting on SUN 11/10 is "the" test to find out if there is still pain, if there is a worsening in neuro function which would tell you and the vet right away another course of a steroid is needed. No one knows how long to use any steroid. The taper tells the answer. Pain= another course of steroid + all pain meds back on board.
No Pain= go to finish of steroid taper... finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal. The full details on how Dex, an anti-inflammatory works with a disc episode. A must read to be able to ask the right questions and discuss treatment: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm--- PLAN B The dex taper starts on Sunday 11/10 when your vet is not open. With any taper, it is always good to have worked out in advance a "PLAN B" should pain re-surface at night or on the weekend when your vet is not open. Could be an emergency RX script you could fill at local 24 hr pharmacy or some extra pills at home til the vet opens again. An ER visit is very expensive, a "Plan B" is free! --- WHICH DOES YOUR VET WANT on the TAPER? Now that you've read the link about using Dex during a disc episode, you know your job during the taper is to monitor for any neuro worsening or pain surfacing. When pain meds (methocarbamol and gabpentin) are on board, sure makes it almost impossible for you to be watching for signs of pain. Which does your vet on regarding pain-masking pain meds on the begin of the taper on Sun 11/10? 1. backing off of both methocarbamol and gabapentin? OR.... 2. full stop of the two pain masking pain meds? -- NERVE IMPROVEMENT NOTED! That is good news to hear the vet observing an improvement about nerve healing. The whole focus on crate rest to is to get the disc to heal in the 8 weeks. Nerve healing may or may not show in that short of time... BUT IT HAS for Newman! Yeah!!! So the question is the risk of transport in for laser and shock wave therapies? Is the benefit going to outweigh the risk of too much movement for the healing disc? If Newman is in pain, then pain pills at would relieve the pain. If he is in pain, then there should not be a taper on Sun 11/10. The Dex test taper is to find out if there is pain still. Make sense. Can you give us a bit more information about Newman's state of pain. These therapies can help to kick start nerve regeneration. Well, Newman IS alreadyimproving in the nerve department. If you want these therapies, then a mobile vet who comes to your home would be the safest idea for Newman's healing disc. Nerve healing just takes time. With the noted nerve function improvement, that really bodes well for more nerve healing to take place!! CLICK TO ENLARGE IMAGE
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 8, 2019 19:30:57 GMT -7
Thank you for the kind words -- It's really appreciated and needed.
He needs significant help with the sling to be able to move both of his legs. At the initial visit on 11/1, both paws would not flip over. Since, he puts the one paw down but not the other and is very weak. This is an improvement to be fair. Using the sling, you can guide him as he pulls himself forward. Today, on the wet grass, he dragged both feet but he put down the other foot on the patio a few hours ago. He is soo weak that it is very hard to determine what is really happening especially when he only moves 3-4 steps while using the potty. He does not appear to be in pain. He is semi-curled and sleeping. He will groan a bit when I try to get the sling on him as I move him around a bit but makes no noise at all while laying down or even moving a bit to get upright to drink water or eat food. Remember, this is a 15 year old Dachshund so he is prone to laziness.
I am getting rid of the sling as he just urinates on its pad -- I can't imagine this working for any male dog? I put some gauze and will use that instead (??)
I apologize for being a downer but the improvement is slight on the one leg and nearly zero on the other. Time heals but it's so hard to be optimistic right now.
gabapentin is .8ML liquid every 8 hours.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 9, 2019 6:16:45 GMT -7
Hi, Shawn. Sometimes pain is only seen when the dog moves. If you feel that the groan you hear when putting the sling on Newman is due to his being lazy and not wanting to get up, that's fine as you know your dog best. But do keep in mind that a reluctance to move can also be a sign of pain as movement can cause pain. If you believe there is any possibility that Newman is still in pain, then you should speak to the vet ASAP today so the pain meds can be adjusted to get his pain completely under control and also speak to him about extending the Dex for another course of 7 days. Pain hinders healing and Newman should be able to move without pain. Please confirm the dosage of the Gabapentin. If there are 250 mg in 5 ml and you're giving .8 ml, if I'm figuring it correctly that would only be 4mg. We usually see at least 30-50 mg being prescribed 3x/day. Most male dogs prefer a figure 8 sling that supports their hips and not under the belly.•Here's one you can make from an old sweatshirt www.lyonpuffpetsit.com/htmlslp/sling.html •Kristen's figure 8 sling made from two leashes www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cratesupplies/Figure8.jpgDo try to stay positive. Nerves truly can take a very long time to heal and it's very, very early days in Newman's healing. Many times nerve healing is not seen at all during the 8 weeks of strict crate rest so the fact that you're already seeing nerve healing is wonderful! Tell Newman every day that he's getting better and you believe it, too. Please continue to keep us updated.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 9, 2019 6:59:12 GMT -7
1ML would be 50mg so 80% would be 40mg. No?
He slept well last night for 5 hours or so. He does not want to lay on his side as he has a hard time [PAIN!] getting up to look around or drink. So, he sleeps while standing! [PAIN!] or laying against his pillow. He snores good when I help him on his side.
I need to find a way to help him potty as it just goes all over me and him and I’m constantly cleaning his paws. The gauze works better than the sling but I make the mistake of covering the penis. I think I need to go more towards belly but don’t want to arch his back bad. He goes immediately when he goes out so he holds it nicely. This morning he did place the usual paw down but soo weak still.
One day at a time.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 9, 2019 7:16:04 GMT -7
Thanks for confirming the Gabapentin dosage - you're absolutely correct! Obviously too early in the morning for me to do math. I think the figure 8 sling would work better. You're right that going forward with the sling would arch his back too much. You want to lift his hips so his back is horizontal. If Newman's bladder is overflowing when you pick him up, you may need to take him out more often. His bladder may be too full and when you pick him up, he can't hold it. Yes, one day at a time is the way to go.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 9, 2019 7:31:43 GMT -7
Newman always peed outside within milliseconds. I take him out every 3 hours or less when I’m home. He drinks a ton on dex.
If I go behind penis, it impedes his walk. If that’s ok I’m fine with it
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 9, 2019 8:22:25 GMT -7
Shawn, preferring to sleep in a stand indicates to me he is still in pain. It hurts him to lie down and it hurt when he has to try to get up....that is not right. Call the vet and report your observations of pain. --- Sunday, Nov 10, is not the time to be doing the test for pain Dex taper! Clearly you observe he is painful. Discuss with the vet about another course of Dex. Actually since Dex is so very strong and well known in a bad way for the damage it can do to the GI tract, discuss moving to the more typical steroid called prednisone. Ask about another course of a steroid, but using prednisone. -- Ask about adjusting his pain meds so that Newman is able with comfort to lie down and get himself up. Gabapentin has plenty of room to move up in mgs from 40mgs to a higher dose at 3x/day. Ask about adding in a 3rd pain med as the general analgesic: tramadol at 3xday. As always we highly encourage reading about every med your dog is or will be on. An educated owner can do the best job of advocating, discussing and understanding treatments. I LOVE the Mar Vista Vet website for their drug directory. You'll want to book mark it too! Directory: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pml Direct link to tramadol Direct link to gabapentin Direct link to methocarbamol Direct link to Pepcid AC (famotidine) Direct link to prednisone Direct link to DexSLING I believe Newman would best be served by moving to a figure 8 sling. He is one of the males who just does not like anything touching his penis at potty time! You do not want to be impeding his walk motion either at potty time. See if you can find an old twin sheet or old sweat shirt at the thrift store for a couple of dollars OR use vet wrap tape to secure two leash handles together to form a nice figure 8 sling. The directions are in a photo image several posts back. Let us know how that works for Newman. USING YOUR MOBILE DEVICE Here is an easier to reply when you use your mobile device. Avoid pressing the "quote" button. Instead, the Forum is best viewed on a mobile phone via the "desk top view" of your browser app (Safari, Chrome, Foxfire) As shown in picture below, you would scroll down to the bottom of the screen to click on "Desktop". click image below to view full graphic of where "desktop" button is located I recommend you reply to a post by going to the "Quick reply" typing area and NOT clicking the "Reply" link. Quick reply allows you to scroll up and down to a previous post and then back down to the "Quick Reply" typing area to continue your own post. A laptop, a tablet are, of course, much easier to deal with typing etc. if you have access to one.
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Shawn & Bruno
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M - Dachshund .. Bruno puppy ....Newman RIP
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 10, 2019 13:54:36 GMT -7
I don't think he is in pain as he doesn't show any other signs. In fact, he spent most of yesterday laying on his side or slightly curled in his bed. He goes crazy when he lays down and can't get up as he tries to move all around to get up. It's sad He is eating well and still goes wild for chicken so this is positive but no improvement with his legs. I ordered a figure 8 sling on Amazon as the current gauze setup doesn't work. Either the penis is covered and he pees into it or the sling pulls the penis up and he pees like a rocket and usually all on his side.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 11, 2019 5:27:09 GMT -7
Glad to hear that Newman has been resting comfortably. Did you start the taper of the Dex yesterday? Is the vet also tapering or stopping the Methocarbamol and Gabapentin? Having pain meds on board during a taper make it difficult to determine whether there is still pain or not as they will mask the signs of pain you need to see.
As mentioned previously, if tapering off of Dex, be very careful to look for any sign of pain. Pain means there is still swelling and still a need for all meds. The reason it's so important is that swelling compresses the nerves of the spine and it's that pressure that causes nerve to be damaged or even die. So if there's still swelling pressing on the nerves, there's still a need for the original dosages of all meds. It can take 7-30 days for that swelling to resolve so it's common for the first taper off of the anti-inflammatory to show signs of pain returning.
Prayers for a pain-free taper off of all meds.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 11, 2019 7:25:48 GMT -7
Good morning. Newman slept well yesterday mostly laying down on his side or slightly curled. Based on the original dosage, he is SUPPOSED to come off the ▲Dex today. I prefer to have an additional day just to be sure but will call the doctor today to see if we should taper or stop all pain meds to check for pain.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit ▼7 lbs Dex injection on 11/1 in clinic Dex in clinic as of 10/31: 0.25mgs 1x/day as of 11/4: 0.25mgs 2x/day for 7 days as of 11/8: 0.25mgs 2x/day for ▲3 days, then MON 11/11 a test taper to reveal any: _pain / _neuro methocarbamol 125 mgs 3x/day til Nov 13th! gabapentin 250mg/5mL: 40mgs (0.8mL dose) 3x/day Pepcid AC 5 mgs should be 2x/day ]
Thanks for prayers.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 11, 2019 13:30:06 GMT -7
Shawn, let us know which your vet prefers at the begin of the Dex taper -- start the dex taper AND at same time stop pain-masking pain meds OR.... -- start the dex taper AND back off of the pain-masking pain meds.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 11, 2019 13:52:38 GMT -7
I just spoke with the doctor and he said it is time to taper off the dex along and stop methocarbamol and the pain related meds. It is time to see if the compression is gone and if he is pain free. He said we can always put him back on the pain meds immediately if there is pain. Tonight is .25MG tablet and then every day for 4 days and then .125MG o(1/4 .5MG tablet) every other day for 8 days.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit ▼7 lbs Dex injection on 11/1 in clinic Dex in clinic as of 10/31: 0.25mgs 1x/day as of 11/4: 0.25mgs 2x/day for 7 days as of 11/8: 0.25mgs 2x/day for 3 days, then MON 11/11 a test taper to reveal any: _pain / _neuro methocarbamol 125 mgs 3x/day til Nov 13th!- STOPPED gabapentin 250mg/5mL: 40mgs (0.8mL dose) 3x/day- STOPPED Pepcid AC 5 mgs should be 2x/day ]
He said "Is he happy? How is the quality of life?". I had to think hard because he isn't the same dog. He 'changed' around 10-12 (2-3 years ago) after my first child. He got older and wanted to sleep more. We would certainly have his fetch fun but he aged. He still looked like a puppy. My little one is 2 years old and he has slept more and more. He would still come off the couch to grab a toy or play with the ball but it was certainly more rare. He always ate well just less due to him sleeping more. When I get home from work, he would run outside and be very affectionate and then, back to the couch. I believe this is very normal given his age but it is hard to say how happy he is given he loves to be lazy and sleep...
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 11, 2019 16:00:28 GMT -7
In answer to Newman's quality of life you mentioned he eats well, still enjoys toys, and is affectionate.
Sounds like a happy dog to me. Sleeping more and being less active is a part of aging.
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Shawn & Bruno
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 11, 2019 19:07:17 GMT -7
Today was a better day for Newman. He is barking to get out of his crate which I haven't heard since he came from the vet on Friday. He is wobbling his front paws back-n-forth in his crate to move forward. More importantly, he seems to be putting his right paw down [not knuckling under].
He still drags both paws every few steps but the left paw he would be able to put down properly [not knuckling under] every few steps. But, today, I notice the right one going down maybe 3 or 4 out of the 10 steps or so he used for potty. It might be just the way the foot went down after he moves his leg but this was the first time I noticed it going flat.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 12, 2019 6:23:02 GMT -7
Great news on the signs of nerve healing that you're seeing, Shawn! Do be sure to keep those steps at potty time to a very, very few. Use a harness and 6' leash and stand in one place to minimize Newman's steps. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg Please keep us updated on Newman's status and the taper off of Dex.
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Shawn & Bruno
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M - Dachshund .. Bruno puppy ....Newman RIP
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Post by Shawn & Bruno on Nov 12, 2019 7:01:19 GMT -7
It's been 10 1/2 hours since any meds including DEX and he is exactly as he was before. It's raining outside today so he made quick potty and was back inside. I am working from home today so I am watching him curl in his bed resting. No heavy breathing. No panting. No noises.
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