April's Pepper 7/28ish? conservative

I'm so sorry to hear about your Pepper. I know how distressing it is. My name is Marjorie - what's yours?

It doesn't sound as though you've received a diagnosis from a vet yet. She really needs to see a vet who can assess her condition and make a determination if she does in fact have IVDD. If she indeed does have IVDD, she needs to be put on an anti-inflammatory to bring the swelling down. When a disc herniates or ruptures, it presses on the spine and that's what causes nerve damage. The swelling must be brought down and anti-inflammatories are necessary to do it. Once the swelling is gone, Pepper won't have pain. She also needs to be on a pain medication such as Tramadol now because she does have pain. As long as she is in pain, her back can't start to heal. Once she starts the steroid, she'll need to take 5 mg of Pepcid AC one half an hour before taking the steroid to protect her tummy. All of this needs to be gone over with a vet.

She also needs to be on 100% strict crate rest for a full 8 weeks to allow the disc to heal. She should be carried out of the crate to do her business and only allowed to take a few steps to do her business and then carried back into the house and put back in her crate. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM. With a disc problem it takes 8 weeks of strict rest to let the disc heal. Otherwise the weak scar tissue forming can easily be re-torn and the pain, more vet bills, the cycle of healing has to start all over again and more nerve damage can occur.

Since she does still have some movement, she sounds like she would be a good candidate for conservative care (crate rest). But you must severely limit her movements or her condition could worsen.

Can you give us a bit more essential information about your dog:

-- Please give specifics as to Pepper's current movement. Can she wobbly walk? move the legs at all? or wag the tail when you do some happy talk? 

-- Can your dog sniff and squat and then release urine or do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up?

-- Eating and drinking OK?

-- Poops OK - normal color, firmness, no dark or bright red blood?

-- If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet.
ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html

Owners can be instrumental in helping their dogs recover. It takes being a reader as not all vets know this disease…but you certainly can know just one disease. So that you can have an informed discussion with the ortho, please read up on the two pertinent pages:
www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htm
www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm

Please keep us posted and let us know if you have any questions or concerns.

Hi, I'm April and thank you both for your support and advise on this matter it's new to me but I have done a lot of reading up on it. I new that Dachshunds were common for this but I never thought it would happen to my girl.

She can still walk but wobbly and her tail still does wag. She does stiffen up when I pick her up but I'm sure that's from the pain. Everything is still normal besides what I stated. She is being put on some medication to help with the pain and anti-inflammatory to get the swelling down.

Once again thank you

Thank you very much Jen and yes she will be going on some medication for this.

Thank you Pauliana for the videos and support

Don't give up on her!  I have Codie, my baby girl. 8 years old rescue.  She was a fine, independent dachshund and then seemingly overnight she couldn't use her back legs.  In retrospect, I know now that this had been coming on - remember seeing her "scooting" on her back legs a few times and figured I needed to get her into the vet for the anal gland thing.  Not so!  When I did take her in, right away the vet told me she suspected IVDD.  Anyway..long story short.  CRATE REST!! Steroids and pain meds from the vet, along with valium.  I bought a playpen from a consignment baby store and there she spent the next month.  Within a week, she barked and began eating again.  Her personality came back.  As the pain subsided, more and more she normalized.  Although she cannot walk yet (and maybe ever), she CAN bear weight on her rear legs..She's come along.  I have ordered a cart from her from Eddie's Wheels.

I was about to have her euthanized, something I still can't forgive myself for even thinking.  She is happy now!  True, I take her in and out and support her legs for potty purposes, but I am hoping the cart will alleviate some of that aspect.  If not, it's not a big deal.  She barks to let us know when she is in need of going outside or thirsty/hungry.

Overall, get your baby to a veterinarian and on this regime if you cannot afford surgery (as we couldn't).  We were given an estimate of $5000 - $6000 - with no guarantee!  Time does heal wounds.  Just use the meds as per your vet's orders.  Better days are ahead.  This forum is what gave me the inspiration to keep on trying!  So glad. 

April, we are a bit concerned about Pepper, can you tell us more details.

 First thing I want to say is that Pepper is a good candidate to recover with conservative treatment IF you are doing true conservative treatment.   No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering around during potty times. No baths, no chiro (aka VOM). In other words do everything you can to limit the vertebrae in the back from moving and putting pressure on the bad disc.


 These are the most important things to do right away.

1. This is the single most important thing you can do…100% STRICT rest 24/7 only out to potty. The size of the recovery suite needs to be only enough room to stand up, turn around in and when lying down to fully stretch out the legs. The focus is on limited movement to protect the spinal cord and the disc. Are you doing that?

2. Supplements such you mentioned are NOT going to be helpful and may be contraindicated with Rx meds.  Spend limited resources on what is known to help during a disc  episode. Pain meds (such as tramadol, robaxin, gabapentin) an anti-inflammatory (such as a steroid or a NSAID but not both) and a stomach protector such as Pepcid AC.  Please let us know she has seen a vet and what the exact names of the meds are, the dose in mg's and how often you give them

3. Pain will be under control within an hour of the right combo, dose and mix of an Rx medication. Pain then should be fully controlled dose to dose of meds.  Please let us know Pepper is not suffering from any pain when moved or nearing the next dose of meds.

We anxiously await hearing news from you.

April, I understand your situation. Please do not be embarrassed at all.  There is not one of us who have not encountered financial situations during our lifetime.  The sole purpose of Dodgerslist is helping dogs.  We do that via the owner…so please stay with us.

Pepper has mild symptoms and is very likely to recover with conservative treatment alone… the 100% STRICT rest 24/7 for 8 weeks.

Truthfully green tea and keishi, glucosamine and chondroitin are not going to help with inflammation and the pain that usually causes.  We want you to spend limited funds on things that will actually help Pepper.

If you were to do only 100% STRICT crate rest, Pepper can heal as the disc heals itself with limited movement…that is the only way the disc heals…no meds help with that.  The Rx items are to give her comfort from pain and help expedite getting swelling in the spinal cord down as soon as possible.

So if she if she is in pain get in touch with a vet.  Tell them of your financial situation, so they know from the start your abilities.  Really all you need is IF this is indeed a disc problem:
1. an anti-inflammatory either a steroid or a NSAID to aid in getting  spinal cord swelling down asap.
2. You need a stomach protector… brand name is Pepcid AC. But you can get Brand X with active ingredient of famotidine for a whole lot less. This is over the counter no prescription needed.
3. If she has signs of pain, a pain reliever will give her comfort.

Walmart, Target, and many grocery store pharmacies now offer the $4 per each generic med prescription.  As your vet to help you financially by writing an Rx to the one nearest your home.  The two anti-inflammatories offered in this generic program are a steroid (prednisone) and a NSAID (Meloxicam)  Only one can be used, never two together.  Tramadol and famotidine are also on the generic list.  So an Rx for 30 tabs each of three meds  comes to $12.  The vet visit is really a necessity when using an anti-inflamamtory….Pepper does need the knowledge and supervision of a vet..so a vet visit is highly recommended. There are other diseases that mimic a disc problem….a vet will be able with a hands on exam, and speaking with you be able to give a pretty good diagnosis IF this is disc disease or something else.  More details on the $4 Generics programs  www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/medications_used.html

Can you give us an up date today if you are seeing any  signs of pain from Pepper?  Is she her normal perky self, interested in life, no shivering, trembling, yelping.  Her tummy is not tense like a drum and she will reposition herself in her crate …not reluctant to  move some?

So do you now have her in a recovery suite that only gives room to stand up, turn around in and when she lies down to fully stretch out her legs?  That kind of area is what is going to provide the right conditions for the disc to self heal.

Hang in there with your determination and Pepper's mild symptoms she is going to be just fine.  Our only concern is that she in not in pain as disc episodes can be very painful and that she is being treated for the right disease.

Until you have a diagnosis it is prudent to assume you might be dealing with disc disease in order to protect the spinal cord and a suspected disc.

Look forward to hearing back and how Pepper is doing today.



 

Thank you so much for your understanding. I have been on other forums and they always talked so negative to others about there animals and I didn't want that because I am a very responsible pet owner. Anyway pepper is naturally quiet but seems a little more so, she is confined in a small area enough to turn around and stretch etc. She does stiffen up her front legs and tightens her belly when I pick her up to take her out to potty. As soon as I put her down she is happy and wants to wonder around. I have her on a harness and leash which is something she don't like lol. Pepper is still real wobbly on the backs legs but can still walk. She want's to get out real bad though my poor girl.

Do you know of any vets here in Birmingham, Alabama that deal with IVDD? I'll try calling tomorrow for one and give them my situation but I'm not able to take her in I have no money at all. I am house/dog sitting for my mom for 2 weeks. I'll see what they'll cost for the exam and meds. Will they have to do x rays or can they tell just with the physical because when they start doing all that I can't do it. I had a dog that got stepped on by a horse and they took 3 x rays and it cost us over $400 to find out his muscle was only bruised but that was before I came the states.

Let us know your city in Alabama. Depending on your location it could open up an option for nearby vet across state lines.

At any vet visit it is best to be up front about your financial abilities. That way the vet can choose options that fit your budget. We know that most every vet wants to use the very best to help them get a good diagnosis. But they can be realistic and more down to earth too if you have been open at the beginning about what you can spend.  

I'm so delighted that you have her in a limited environment where there's only enough room to stretch out and turn around…that is the very best thing you could have done!!! Something is causing her to wobbly walk  so that is the next thing to address finding out a diagnosis and then the right treatment to go with it.

In case this might be disc disease, prepare ahead of time by looking at the store nearest you that does $4 generics. Print out the med list and highlight the meds that go with IVDD. This way your vet will be able to quickly see which he would prescribe. You want to make things as easy and quick for the vet if you expect him to do you a favor …. as normally, the way a vet stays in business is via many avenues to pay his overhead…. one of them is dispensing meds from his clinic. So you are asking him to forsake that source of income to pay his bills for rent, employees, utilities, etc. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/medications_used.html

I know how hard crate rest can be and I truly sympathize with you. Jeremy has been in his crate for five weeks and it seems like an eternity. All I want to do is take him for a nice hike in the woods or down to the beach for a swim. And I know he's craving that, too. But time does pass and it is what's best. It's too bad that they can't understand that it's not forever. Glad she's feeling better.

Hi April, I'm Sabrina. My dachshund Charley is in the midst of his first disc episode and I know it is hard to see them in their "recovery suites" when they are used to having the run of the house. But hang in there - it really is best for them!

My husband made me a "dolly" for Charley's crate out of a sturdy piece of wood and four "caster" wheels (that he got for under $3 each at Walmart). If you or someone you know is good with projects, maybe you could make something so that you can move Pepper's recovery suite around the house easily so that she can be near you? I know for Charley it is really helping him to know that I'll wheel him to the room I'm in so that he doesn't get left behind.

Hang in there!
-Sabrina

(Edit: should add - be sure to make Pepper's recovery suite "escape proof" before putting it on anything like a "dolly".)

Ya she is great no extra pain from jumping out she seems to be better then the last couple days for pain that is. I believe that's why she tempted the escape. She's got the attitude "I feel good let's get rollin" even though I have wobbly legs..lol

Anyway..

I have small boxes in there to confine her more and she thinks that putting her front paws on them to jump out will help to get my attention and well it does. I haven't come up with a top yet but I'll let you know when I do. As for moving the play pen around I would like to take it in with me when I go to bed but it's an old style so it's kinda heavy, awkward and slightly falling apart. When I can I'll get a proper crate for her so I can take her where ever I go.

Thanks for the names of the vets I'll look into where there located, etc. You know I don't feel comfortable with these meds that they prescribe there seems to be more side affects then what there meant to do. I don't like the idea of putting her at such risks. I know I wouldn't like it. That's just my opinion though.
What's your thought's on it?

Thanks everyone

My two cents - I'm not a doctor, scientist, researcher, or expert in any way! But I myself have been on prednisone many times when it was imperative that the inflammation from my Crohn's disease be combated ASAP. Because I know first hand the very real side-effects of prednisone, I'm sad that my Charley-dog has to be on it. He has a diagnosis of IVDD and I know he needs the steroid to get rid of the inflammation. Also, many of the "worst" side effects are from long-term use.

So, if Pepper actually has IVDD and there is inflammation, I don't know of any treatment that will deal with the inflammation as quickly/thoroughly as a steriod or NSAID. A vet who's worth paying will be able to honestly discuss pros/cons and address your concerns.


Hang in there!
-Sabrina

Pepper's legs seem to be a bit more wobbly from her 2 escapes. Oh yes she got out again but I fixed that problem now and no more. Anyway she doesn't seem to be in any serious pain because she bounces around when she needs to go out that is when she got out. I did calm her down, I keep reminding her she needs to stay calm and that it is for her own good. Wish she understood. Her tummy does tighten a bit when I pick her up but other then that she is fine. Moves around all right and still tries to climb up against the bars to get to me when I'm standing there.

The only problem I am having is she does not go potty all day, but by morning she is bursting and well then goes. If I don't get to her soon enough she pees in her bed and then tries to bury it in the blankets because she knows that's bad, but what can I do she won't go. She just stands there looking around.

Thanks for the encouragements I have been a bit down over this situation.