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Post by Linda & Sinbad +Sissy on Feb 9, 2019 8:52:57 GMT -7
SINBAD
my second dachshund [Sinbad] had IVDD episode this morning [2/7] as leaving for vet in Raleigh for dental. They took x-ray but didn't see anything. They are recommending crate rest. We may (probably) will take my male in to see them either Friday or Sat. Thanks for the recommendation.
we went through ER on Friday [2/8?]. Sinbad wasn't walking but he could stand for a bit. He wasn't urinating. NC State Vet Hosp- neurology department recommended surgery but since he wasn't an emergency he would have to wait his turn. Friday night they said no change. Saturday morning the resident called and said he was walking a bit, peeing ok and stable so not recommending surgery at this time but wanted to keep him there for observation till Monday. I feel they are just keeping him there till Monday and when have staff there again on Monday we'll see if they don't recommend surgery again. He is not enough of an emergency to warrant calling in staff to do surgery. It's great if in fact he is improving enough on his own to not need surgery but I'm not getting my hopes up. Visiting hours are between 8-9 am and since no one told us this we can't visit him today. Will go see him on Sunday. Just don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling about this neurology department; feel like we just got the run around due to the week-end (I thought they had full staff 24/7 and that's not the case)
Sinbad is 11 y.o. dachshund weighs 18 lbs. On Thursday the 7th Sinbad fell down the 2 steps from the house to the garage floor. He did not appeared to be in pain with this episode. He didn't show any other signs other than he couldn't walk much and hind end just kept falling to the side. He was dragging his hind feet when trying to walk. Since we were going to the vet with all 3 of my pups for their dentals we just loaded up and went to the vet. The vet examined him and said he had feeling and xray didn't show any damage but he felt it was prob slipped disk and would probably recover with crate rest and meds. He stayed in crate at vets till 3 pm when we picked up at 3 dogs. Brought him home. He ate regular dinner and meds. When took him out he couldn't pee/poop. Called vet and tech said she didn't think he peed there but thinks he pooped. He slept all night. In the morning I fed him a very light meal with his meds and again tried to get him to pee/poop. He did not do anything. By now it was about 24 hours since he went potty so we loaded him up and took him to NC State Univ Vet Hosp. Upon exam they felt his crate rest recovery would be 70% and surgery would be about 90%. We opted for surgery with an MRI. They would do the surgery as soon as possible but they prioritize depending on severity. Friday night they called and no change. Saturday they advised they moved him to neurology area and he had improved. He could walk a few steps (wobbly walk I guess), he could pee and they were now recommending crate rest for recovery; no surgery at this time. They wanted him to stay at hospital till Monday for re-evaluating (come to find out they don't have full staff there on the week-ends and unless it's an emergency they don't do surgeries on the week-end; we had not been told this before) We decided to leave him there for the week-end cause I want to make sure he can urinate and has the best crate rest before we try to transport him home. The original vet [2/7 DVM] had prescribed 2.5 mg Prednisone 2 X day for 4 days then reducing, 50 mg 2 X day Trazdone, and 25 mg 2 X day Tramadol. He is also taking Pepcid 5 mg 2Xday and this was reported to the hospital staff. I don't know what they are giving him at the hospital. I don;t know if they are just keeping him with crate rest till Monday and then will want to do surgery again or if he is really improving enough for just crate rest. Guess time will tell
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 18 lbs Prednisone as of 2/7: 2.5mgs 2x/day for 4 days, then 2/11 test taper for pain/neuro tramadol 25mgs 2x/day trazadone 50 mgs 2x/day Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 9, 2019 9:00:52 GMT -7
SINBAD Linda, The VERY, VERY good news is that if Sinbad CAN WALK, then really a surgeon would be hesitant to try a very invasive surgery that can have risk. In all likelihood, Sinbad, with eight (8) weeks of crate rest (non-invasisve treatment) not only can his disc heal with good secure scar tissue, but he can also self heal his nerves to even get better neuro function in his legs!!!
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Post by Linda & Sinbad +Sissy on Feb 18, 2019 8:26:54 GMT -7
what is your opinion of acupuncture at this point?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 18, 2019 8:47:44 GMT -7
The single most important care is the 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out for a very, very few footsteps at potty time. So all vet visits need to be carefully weighed. It is the transports into the clinic where there is great potential for too much movement. Movement is what causes vertebrae to push on all discs including the one that is in the early healing stages. That discs scar tissue is still weak and can easily re-tear/relapse. A relapse would put Sinbad back at square one...probably pain with the re-tear, starting from day one for 8 weeks of crate rest, more meds, more vet bills.
Sinbad has a mild case, he can walk. His pain in in control full round the clock, dose to dose.
Acupuncture is very good at being an adjunct to pain control when an already aggressive pain med approach is on board. ---While Sinbad's pain meds are not at an aggressive level, you report he is in no pain. -- all procedures that are invasive, can be a risk. Any form of skin piercing carries an inherent risk that the needle will cause physical damage such as puncturing a blood vessel or coming too near a nerve. All risks should be weighed against the benefit to be gained. Also qualify any potential acupuncture vet for their training, years of experience, etc.
So what benefit do you see that Sinbad would gain that makes you want to consider acupuncture. Is that benefit large enough to override risks of transport or the procedure itself?
I recommend you follow the link below to read the full article by Dr. Schoen from "Veterinary Acupuncture for Neurologic Conditions" his presentation at the World Small Animal Veterinary Association World Congress Proceedings, 2011.
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Post by Linda & Sinbad +Sissy on Feb 18, 2019 9:41:45 GMT -7
the acupuncture vet is a mobile vet that comes to our house. reading the report you referred to seems to be of benefit to Sinbad. thank you
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Post by Linda & Sinbad +Sissy on May 21, 2020 16:23:52 GMT -7
I didn't realize that I never completed this tale. Will do so now even if it is very late.
Sinbad did 8 weeks crate rest. He continued meds for a few weeks and then was weaned off. He did several rounds of acupuncture (4-5) and laser therapy. We monitored his activity level for several months. We have a fenced yard but kept him leashed until he was walking almost normal then we let him travel in the fence on his own. It is now over a year.......Sinbad healed very well. He can run just fine and do his "zoomies". We cut all the dogs (we have 3 doxies) off of couch and beds (the oldest sleeps with my husband cause both of them are too old to get up much LOL) The 16 yr old will not jump off the bed. They have a ramp to go in/out of garage (where Sinbad fell before)
The crate rest was the deciding factor in his healing. It is hard to make them stay in the crate cause they want to be a part of the family. Since I had 2 in crate rest side by side, that seemed to help even though Sissy was only in crate for 4 weeks since she didn't go all the way down. Crate rest, meds, acupuncture, laser therapy all played their role in his recovery. --------------------
regarding SHONTIE My oldest pup, Shontie will be 16 in November. He has not had an IVDD injury but the vet feels his disks have just disintegrated over time. And he has quite a bit of arthritis in both rear legs. He can walk but it's very difficult for him. He can take a couple steps but then has to sit down. He cannot pee/poop on his own at his own will. He wears a belly band and the urine just kinda leaks out of his penis. He does not do the dachshund scrunch up to poop. Little balls kind of randomly fall out of his butt. Sometimes I can squeeze gently and help him. He is on gabepentin (100 mg 2Xday) and a new med was added recently Galliprant (10 mg a day). He also takes Cosequin and CBD oil. He does not seem to be in pain although the vet says he is somewhat uncomfortable at times. My husband is very attached to him and does not want to discuss putting him down. He carries Shontie around and takes him outside with the other dogs even though he doesn't do much outside other than sit and look around. My question is this: what is your opinion about a cart? I am torn thinking he is too old to start on a cart but part of me thinks he would enjoy being able to get around a little more. He tries to get around but just can't walk much and I hate to see him struggle to get around. Are there any carts on the website for sale or loan? I know this subject is probably somewhere on here but I couldn't find it.
Thanks so much for your assistance and if you can direct me to the proper location I would be happy to digest there. Linda
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on May 21, 2020 18:48:22 GMT -7
Linda, wonderful to hear about Sinbad and Sissy doing well. Regarding SHONTIArthritis is, no doubt about it, a painful thing. Glad to hear your vet is using the anti inflammatory that was specifically designed to target the pain from arthritis (Galliprant). With its addition have you noticed that Shontie since using will walk more and not having to sit down in between so much? The best thing for arthritis is moving. So a cart that would restrict mobility is not a good idea. If you are observing he is still painful such as reluctant to move much, not wanting to walk, etc. here are some options to discuss with your vet. -- Amantadine - read how this unusual med helps with pain www.marvistavet.com/amantadine.pml -- Gabapentin Do you observe more reluctance to move nearing next dose of gabapentin? Then ask your vet about 3x/day dosing -- Assisi Loop (Pulsed electromagnetic fields) $279 with Rx from vet www.assisianimalhealth.com/product/loop/-- Adequan® injections at home or at the clinic. Adequan has numerous beneficial effects for the arthritis including the inhibition of harmful enzymes involving joint cartilage destruction, stimulation of cartilage repair, and increasing joint lubrication. one of many Adequan® sources:
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