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Post by Tina & Bruno on Feb 1, 2019 15:39:33 GMT -7
[Original Subject NEW MEMBER! 5 days Post Op]Hi, my name is Tina. My 7 year old Beagle Cocker Spaniel Bruno is 22 pounds. He is currently on gabapentin 100 mg( started 1/27/19) 2x every 8 hours. He is also on carpaquin 100mg, 1/2 tablet 1x day (started today). He has been diagnosed with IVDD with a ruptured disc. My vet is ACVIM neurology at the Texas A&M Small Animal Hospital in College Station, Texas, but he is also seeing his general vet. He is strictly crate confined for the next 4-6 weeks. He saw his vet to have surgery 1/27/19. He is wobbly walking with help of sling, urinating, eating, and resting fine. [Moderator's note: please do not modify 22 lbs carpaquin (carprofen) as of 2/1: 50 mgs 1x/day gabapentin: 100mgs capsules: 200mgs 3x/day no stomach protector Pepcid AC on board!]Today ( 2/1/19 )during his midday potty break where the encouraged him to walk, he got extremely agrgressivebwith me and thrashed in his cage a little bit. Once he was out, he walked outside and after two minutes he started to yelp in pain and just sat down. He whimpered as I picked him up to bring him inside to his cage and has been restless and panting since. I called the neuro today (2/1/19) who worked with him and she mentioned that he is still in a lot of pain and all of a sudden doesn’t want to be bothered. So we were put on the carpaquin and told to update them how he does after the weekend. Im just wondering if anybody else has has the experience with an overly aggressive dog trashing in his cage not wanting to come out. I’m worried he reinjured himself. Thanks in advance!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 1, 2019 16:33:46 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Tina. I am Romy. We are so glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you! Disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions? Re-think things: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htmCan you give us more detail about thrashing his cage? Did the addition of the carpaquin relieve Bruno's pain? The signs of pain can be subtle and dogs will often try to hide pain. These are the signs of pain we look for: ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way between doses. If pain is not control your vet needs to know right away to adjust meds. Vets have many ways to relieve pain. It is possible that his aggression was caused by pain. He is only 5 days post-surgery and he may be still feeling pain from the surgery. How long has he been home? My Frankie was in the hospital for 5 days after his surgery but some dogs are hospitalized for more or less time. If he has just come home, he may have been receiving different pain meds in the hospital. The pain meds he came home with may not be enough to relieve pain. It is also possible that he re-injured himself or that some hidden disk material was not able to be removed during the surgery. All anti-inflammatories, including carpaquin cause excess stomach acid. This can sometimes cause serious stomach issues. To help prevent these issues Pepcid AC is often used. Ask the vet if Bruno has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn't need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a "no health" issues answer,then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). The usual dose for dogs is 0.44mg per pound, 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours for as long as your dog is on the anti-inflammatory. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.htmlPost-op crate rest is to allow the surgical sites to heal. Take a look at these super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite and see if there is anything more you can do to make Bruno's recovery comfortable. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT for a post-op dog means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. Post-op dogs will follow surgeon's directives for PT during post-op rest as the offending disc material was surgically removed. This is sometimes short walks to potty. Dr Isaacs, DVM, ACVIM (Neurology) answers some questions our members have had about surgery. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htmYou can use the “search box” to easily locate topics over at our Main www.dodgerslist.com website: www.dodgerslist.com/index/searchBOX.jpgHealing thoughts for Bruno.
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Feb 1, 2019 16:45:46 GMT -7
Hi there! Thanks for responding so quickly. So the thrashing is a result of me trying to pick him up to go for his potty break. I went to get him, and he tried attacking my hand while it was near his bottom. It worries me that it was too forceful of a motion.
Just started the Carpaquin about an hour ago(5:00PM) today (2/1/19). He is laying down and resting now.
I’m not a fan of being told to wait it out. He is going to take his last two gabapentin pills tonight. .
He has been home since 1/30/19. He was there 1/27/19-1/30/19.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 1, 2019 17:33:42 GMT -7
It sounds as though Bruno is in a lot of pain, acting so aggressively when you tried to pick him up. He's going to need more of the Gabapentin and I would speak to them about adding Tramadol and/or Methocarbamol. The swelling from the surgery can take about two weeks to subside and until then pain meds are needed. Carpaquin is an anti-inflammatory and will work on the swelling but he still needs pain meds to mask the pain. I wouldn't wait until after the weekend to speak to them about adjusting pain meds. There's no reason why Bruno should be left in pain until Monday. Anyone at the hospital should be able to look at Bruno's records and adjust the meds.
And be sure to speak to them or Bruno's regular vet about starting Pepcid AC to protect Bruno from the side effects of the carpaquin.
Bruno looks so much like my Jeremy.
Healing prayers for Bruno.
Also I'm not sure what you mean by gabapentin 100 mg( started 1/27/19) 2x every 8 hours. Two times a day is every 12 hours. Has the Gabapentin been prescribed every 8 or every 12 hours? Gabapentin doesn't stay long in the system and works best when prescribed every 8 hours so if Bruno isn't receiving the Gabapentin every 8 hours, speak to the vet about adjusting that med to 3x/day.
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Feb 1, 2019 18:04:20 GMT -7
Hi there. I meant to put that he is taking the gabapentin 3x a day, 2 at each time. (6 total). He just started whining in his cage again which he hasn’t done since before his surgery.
I’m extremely nervous to take him out for his last potty break and have him be in pain. I’m also very worried he reinjured himself.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 22 lbs carpaquin (carprofen) as of 2/1: 50 mgs 1x/day gabapentin: 200mgs 3x/day no stomach protector Pepcid AC on board!]
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Feb 1, 2019 18:10:07 GMT -7
The hospital where the surgery was done is open 24 hours a day. Give them a call and tell them that he's acting like he's in pain and you don't want to wait until Monday to speak to the neuro. Tell them he's taking the last of the Gabapentin tonight and therefore has no pain meds for the weekend. Ask them to look at his records and prescribe pain meds for the weekend and you'll call the neuro on Monday.
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Post by Pauliana on Feb 1, 2019 18:11:05 GMT -7
Tina, please speak to his surgeon about the pain Bruno is in and I believe he is acting aggressive because he is in pain.. The surgeon should be informed about this.. You are the eyes and ears for the Vet.. They don't know unless you tell them that Bruno is having problems! You are his advocate.. Don't wait! Call them NOW!!!
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Feb 1, 2019 19:16:44 GMT -7
Update on Bruno. He hasn’t defecated since we brought him back ...until just a few hours ago! Could the feces build up make him whine? The whining has stopped and he walked around pretty good afterwards and let me pick him up with no wimpering like before. He took his gabapentin and is now ready for bed.
I already talked with neuro yesterday and today (1/31& 2/1) and they told me to give the carpaquin a try and then call them back with updates at any time. I am going to call his local vet in the morning and talk about the Pepcid y’all recommended.
You guys are great and I will keep you updated as much as possible. This whole process is overwhelming, but I’m glad I found these boards.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 1, 2019 20:02:19 GMT -7
Was the poop too hard (constipated)?
Plain pureed canned pumpkin is a magical fruit - its high fiber can firm up stools and help with diarrhea or loosen the stool to help with constipation. NOTE: alternatives are really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel off; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potatoe. --To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal and soak overnight. At mealtime add one teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. -- To firm up the stool add 1 teaspoon plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day to kibble.
Give a teaspoon of pumpkin for every 10 pounds of body weight
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Feb 2, 2019 12:14:54 GMT -7
Hi again all. So I called my vet and she went ahead and prescribed him ✚ tramadol.
Here is his updated list: Gabapentin: 2 pills 3x a day- every 8 hours 100 mg Carpaquin: 1x a day 100mg Tramadol: 1 pill 2 x a day 50mg
[Moderator's note: please do not modify 22 lbs carpaquin (carprofen) as of 2/1: 50 mgs 1x/day gabapentin 200mgs 3x/day ✚ tramadol 50 mgs 2x/day no stomach protector Pepcid AC on board!]
Could someone give me an example of what times to give each when? Thanks all for the recommendations.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 2, 2019 12:46:06 GMT -7
have no patience with pain. Tramadol 50 mgs 2x/day may not do the trick as it has a short half life and may not provided dose to dose, round the clock pain relief. The usual is for the vet to Rx at 3x/day. So keep in mind to advocate IF you would see pain. Monitor for any hint of pan surfacing before next doses or when having to move. When you get tramadol in your hands, give it to get pain relief started ASAP. To line it up better with other med dosings you can maneuver by a couple of hours til it is in time with say carpaquin or the gabapentin. What about the must have Pepcid AC (famotidine) to suppress stomach acids caused by the carpaquin and changes in routine? Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. Ask if your dog has any health issues to prevent use of Pepcid AC (famotidine)? (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!) If you get a “no health issues” answer, then go to the grocery store to purchase over the counter Pepcid AC containing one single active ingredient (famotidine). Mar Vista Vet reports: Pepcid AC has a very limited potential for side effects, the reason of release to over-the-counter status. The dose of famotidine may require reduction in patients with liver or kidney disease as these diseases tend to prolong drug activities. There have been some reports of exacerbating heart rhythm problems in patients who already have heart rhythm problems so it may be prudent to choose another means of stomach acid control in heart patients. marvistavet.com/famotidine.pml The usual dose during a disc episode is Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. Give the anti-inflammatory with a meal as added protection. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html Using a med chart will be very useful in noting cause and effect with meds, etc. D/l and print from here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/crateRRP/medchart.pdfIs he or was he constipated?
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Feb 2, 2019 13:51:54 GMT -7
Thank you. He is/was not constipated. He also walked and went to the bathroom without his sling today (2/2) so that’s good news. He is not crate trained , so he is not liking the crate right now.
I also asked about the Pepcid and the vet said not to. He does not have any health issues, so I think I still might go and buy some.
Also, I haven’t been at work for the last week, but I work a part time job and will need to leave him in his crate 3-5 hours at a time. Is that ok ?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Feb 2, 2019 14:36:06 GMT -7
God news that Bruno is walking more steadily without a sling. When I first asked my vet about Pepcid AC for Frankie he said it was not needed. But I had been reading Dodgerslist and I later asked if there was any health reason for Frankie to not take Pepcid. He said no and I bought the Pepcid and gave it to Frankie. I felt better knowing that Frankie's stomach was protected. If Bruno is calm in his crate you don't need to be concerned about leaving him while you are at work. When you say he is not liking his crate, how is he showing that? If he is restless in the crate try draping a blanket over the top of the crate. This will make it feel more denlike and may keep him calmer. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/EmergencyCrate%20Training.htmThere are some natural ways you can try to keep Bruno calmer in his crate. Using any oral calmer in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best. It takes several days for these to start working - it isn't immediate but they are a much better option if you can avoid heavy duty prescription sedatives such as Acepromazine, Trazodone, etc. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffuser at floor level where the recovery suite is. Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/us/Products/ADAPTIL-Calm-Home-Diffuser -with dog pheromones Use a diffuser with one oral calmer from below: 1) ANXITANE® S chewable tabs contain 50 mg L-Theanine, an amino acid that acts neurologically to help keep dogs calm, relaxed 2) Composure Soft Chews are colostrum based like calming mother's milk and contain 21 mg of L-Theanine. Bach's Rescue Remedy Pets is a liquid herb combo to help with relaxation. I used this with my Frankie when he was on crate rest. www.bachflower.com/rescue-remedy-pet/
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Feb 2, 2019 19:38:08 GMT -7
Thank you for the suggestions. I will look into those. Bruno is not crate trained, so he hates being in a crate. He whines, bites it, scratches at it, barks at us, and pants.
I was worries last night (2/1) that it was pain, but once the crate was opened, he stops all of that. He’s at it again already tonight (2/2), so wish me luck.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 2, 2019 20:27:01 GMT -7
My dogs hate crates but are OK in a pack and play.
It's a baby playpen.
Or some people use x-pens.
Or if the natural calmers aren't helping you may need to get a mild sedative from the vet.
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Mar 11, 2019 8:02:24 GMT -7
Hi all! Quick update and some questions. As of yesterday 3/10, Bruno is 6 weeks post op. He is walking, wants to be playful and does not seem in any sort of pain. We had our 6 week neuro checkup with his vet today 3/11 and she said all is looking good! She told us no jumping or stairs, which I figured, but when I asked about running, she said he will build up to it. ( When someone comes home he tries to run to the door). He hates his cage. I’m going to give him two more weeks of sleeping in the cage at night (for my sake) and then I think I’ll put his doggy bed that he slept on before surgery back out. He can’t jump on the bed, and doesn’t try to either, so that’ll be good. Questions: 1. Does anyone have any sort of schedule for when he can go on walks again? I don’t want to rush him into anything too quick. 2. What type of harness should I buy him? He’s a puller on walks. 3. We have a sectional in our living room. Before his surgery, he would fly on and off of it. He tried doing it the other day and my heart stopped with the thought of him getting reinjured. Any way we can block off the sectional? I know I’ll think of more questions eventually. Thanks again!
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Post by Julie & Perry on Mar 11, 2019 8:12:37 GMT -7
I block off my sofa with folding fireplace screens.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 11, 2019 14:36:40 GMT -7
Tina, wonderful to hear the neuro is pleased and now he is off of post-op crate rest. It is always a good idea to gradually reintroduce physical activity so he does not overdo and get sore muscles! You have asked some very excellent questions. I think you will find answers to those and many more you have not yet though of in our "After Crate Rest, Then What?" It includes: -- A sample schedule for the gradual introduction back to family life -- The features to look for in a harness -- Video on how to retrain not to pull on the harness during walks -- inexpensive ideas for furniture blockers Try this avenue to teach him how to GREET with CALM.
Tina,, we invite you to hop on to our educational bandwagon team. Education about disc disease is our number one mission! We wish we did not have to hear of another dog that was put to sleep because of disc disease nor one denied the correct principles of crate rest to help them heal. We would like all of our members to pay forward for the help they have received with their dog by helping us educate!
We depend on you. Here are two ways to help... -- "Share" our FB posts www.facebook.com/Dodgerslist-- Hand carry our literature to your vets. When in conversation at the grocery store line or wherever you may meet breeds most prone to IVDD (Dachshunds, Beagles, Poodles, Spaniels, Shih Tzus, Pekingese, and Chihuahuas) give out our little cards. Ask Linda to send you a free packet: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm-- Would you consider helping another trying to make decisions… We have a directory where you can share surgical info. Here is where you can share your dog's info: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-postingState: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: Don't be a stranger. We'd LOVE to get periodic updates on Bruno.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 11, 2019 18:29:29 GMT -7
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Apr 4, 2019 11:12:04 GMT -7
Update.
Bruno is 10 weeks post op. We are going on nice and slow walks. He is loving it! He does not seem to be in any pain and is being his fun and perky self !
When he walks slow, his legs seem to cross each other just like they did when he first got out of surgery. This is only like 15% of the time. Im assuming he is probably sore from getting more exercise than he’s used to. I know his legs will never be 100% again, but I’m just wondering if this is normal.
What are your guys thoughts ?
Thanks in advance !
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 4, 2019 14:28:30 GMT -7
Great news that Bruno is now his fun, perky self!
The legs crossing over is a sign of nerve damage. Does it seem that when he gets tired this is more likely to occur?
Ten weeks after surgery means that a lot of healing can still take place. His walking may improve over time.
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Apr 4, 2019 17:20:11 GMT -7
Thanks for responding. I notice it more in the morning after he wakes up and then again during/ after walks. He doesn't seem to be in any pain and gives me his leash to go on walks (LOL). I am not rushing him and taking things super slow and cautious. I just get super nervous with everything.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 5, 2019 5:07:01 GMT -7
Easy and slow is the way to go, Tina. It sounds like Bruno is doing very well. Nerves can take months, even a year or more to heal. Try to take it one day at a time and enjoy each moment that you have with him. So glad to hear how well he's doing!
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Post by Tina & Bruno on May 30, 2019 13:14:01 GMT -7
Update 5/30
Bruno is a little over 4 months post-op. (yay!!) His legs are still crossing, but only when he is walking really slow inside and outside. Everything he does still makes me nervous, but he is full of energy, going on walks daily, and not in any pain. Besides his legs crossing, he looks just like he did before surgery.
One thing I am concerned about is boarding him. My husband and I will be gone for a week coming up for our honeymoon. He will be boarding with his vet, but I can't help but worry. He is in the best hands possible while we are gone, but does anyone have some good and positive advice to give me?
Thanks in advance!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on May 30, 2019 13:28:09 GMT -7
Bruno is doing great. There is still a lot of time for additional healing to take place so the leg crossing may improve over time.
We pet parents do worry a lot about our dogs. Is he boarding with his regular vet? If so they already know about Bruno's medical history and things should go fine.
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Post by Tina & Bruno on May 30, 2019 14:41:24 GMT -7
Thank you. This is his regular vet, they do know about him and his condition. I’ve just never left him at boarding for this long since before his surgery.
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Aug 20, 2019 10:07:59 GMT -7
Update 8/20/19: Bruno is almost 7 months post-op! His legs still cross and shake every now and then when he's walking really slow or is tired, but he is showing no signs of pain, which is AWESOME. He is going on walks everyday and is literally playing with every toy he owns. It makes me emotional thinking it could happen to him again, but for now, I have to let him be a dog and I'll look for the signs in the mean time. Thanks all!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 22, 2019 7:45:24 GMT -7
Thanks for the great update, Tina. So glad Bruno is happy and doing well. Love the pic! He looks so much like my Jeremy.
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Post by Tina & Bruno on Jan 15, 2020 20:09:54 GMT -7
Hey all. Bruno is almost a year post op (yay)! One thing that just started today is that he keeps biting his left hind leg in the same spot. With that, it’s randomly twitching. Everything else with him seems normal (walk, activity level, eating, etc.) is this something to worry about? Thanks!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 16, 2020 6:11:36 GMT -7
Tina, Bruno could be feeling abnormal nerve sensations that start off as mild pins and needles but which could progress to painful burning, on-fire feeling that makes them bite to stop the pain. These are abnormal signals… neuropathic pain. Dogs have tragically chewed off body parts to stop the pain. An e-collar on or in a pinch a lengthwise folded towel, secured closed with duct tape can keep them from reaching their legs till you get vet help. Gabapentin helps with this kind of pain. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/neuropathy.pdfPlease keep us updated on this.
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