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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Oct 17, 2018 13:30:55 GMT -7
Hi all,
My dog Jackson had surgery around June 30, 2017 and made almost a complete recovery (from being paralyzed to walking again!). In June this year he had another flare up which we have been treating with strict crate rest and meds. Let me start by saying I understand that you recommend 8 weeks of strict crate rest, and I am on board. Let me also say that we went to three different vets who did not agree with that approach and suggested 4-6 weeks. As a result, my husband and I were constantly in disagreement, as he wanted to follow the vets' instructions. Unfortunately, it has been a severe point of contention in our house.
Cut to a few nights ago [date?] when Jackson went down (again). We could see immediately that he lost a good amount of neuro function in his back legs and was in great pain. We rushed him to the emergency vet. They got is pain managed right away and monitored him overnight to see if he needed surgery. We signed the paperwork to authorize surgery before we left. The surgeon called the next day to advise AGAINST surgery because his pain was being managed by the oral meds (gabapentin, rimadyl, and methocarbamol) and because his neuro had not gotten worse. (he can wag his tail, control bladder and bowels, move legs, but not really stand or walk too well).
So they discharged him with instructions of strict crate rest and the above medicines (I am traveling for work right now so I don't know the exact doses but I think it is 1.3ml of Gabapentin 3x day, 1/4 pill of methocarbamol 3x a day, and 1/2 a Rimadyl pill 2x/day with food. Yes, I added in Pepcid. He has not exhibited any signs of pain since being back from the hospital. He has wagged his tail and even squeaked his favorite toy a few times.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
17lbs
Rimadyl as of date?: for how many days? then stop as a test for pain/neuro issues
gabapentin ?mgs in one mL?: ?mgs (1.3mL dose) 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) ? mgs ?x/day ]
My husband and I are FINALLY on the same page -- we agree on STRICT crate rest for 8 WEEKS. Being that we really want to do this right, I have a few questions for the group:
1) We found a vet that does at-home laser and acupuncture treatments. (our other dachshund gets acupuncture). Jackson had 2 sessions of laser before his recent setback. Do you think we should hold off on any further treatments during the 8 weeks? The vet is very accommodating and even sat in his pen with him to give the treatment the first time.
2) The surgeon asked us to bring Jackson in for a recheck in 2 weeks (assuming no setbacks before then). Bringing him to the emergency hospital that she works out of is very stressful for him. Also, once they take him in the back, I'm not sure the techs really understand that he shouldn't be walking and/or how they handle him. I know they make him walk as part of the neuro evaluation. Is checking in with a surgeon during crate rest normal? Basically, he has been so on/off since June, that she wants to see if eventually an MRI and surgery will be necessary (I was surprised when she didn't recommend it the other day...but she said he stabilized so well that they didn't want go that route yet)
3) What are your thoughts on letting him chew a nylabone in his pen during crate rest? Or sit in his doggy stroller in the kitchen while we cook if he is calm? He used to love searching the floor for crumbs so now I have been letting him lick the dish towel after dinner to keep him occupied in his crate (it goes in the wash after).
Thank you all in advance. Jackson has been through so many ups and downs these last 4 months, I am hoping hoping hoping that he is able to recover and heal these next 8 weeks.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Oct 17, 2018 14:27:24 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Ashley. So glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you! The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. Dodgerslist supports a full 8 weeks of crate rest. We don't have studies that confirm how long it takes a disk to heal with crate rest. At Dodgerslist we go by vets who are successful in avoiding a relapse by being more conservative on length of time. We also have multiple of thousands of dogs since 2002 when this group was established. We see a pattern of which dogs relapse with an early release from crate rest and better results with 8 weeks of making sure the body formed good strong disc scar tissue. It cannot hurt a dog to have 8 weeks of crate rest. Any muscle loss will be quickly made up once the dog returns to normal activity. Nerves, when damaged, take a very long time to heal so we support erring on the side of caution. Super tried and true tips for setting up the recovery suite, the mattress and more! —> www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means: ◼︎no laps ◼︎no couches ◼︎no baths ◼︎no sleeping with you ◼︎no chiro therapy whys: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htm ◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times. ◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc Carry to and from the recovery suite to the potty place and then allow a very few limited footsteps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog’s back aligned and butt from tipping over. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. An ex-pen in the grass is an excellent alternative to minimizing footsteps with the physical and visual to indicate there will be no sniff festing going on! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpgMany of our members have successfully used laser treatments. Since the vet is coming to your home for laser treatments there is no risk of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit . I think you can ask your surgeon if you could update by phone rather than transporting Jackson if he has stabilized or improved. This is especially true as you feel it is a chaotic environment. If his neuro functions diminish, of course, call right away. What day did you start the Strict crate rest? How much does Jackson weigh? When you can, please give us the exact dosages of the meds he is taking . How many days has the Rimadyl been prescribed for? How many mgs of gabpentin is in one mL of the liquid? A stroller is fine inside the house during crate rest. It gives the dog a change of scene and you can keep the dog near you. Never leave a dog unattended in a stroller. They can tip the stroller over, or open the zipper in an instance. You might want to secure the zipper handles with a twist tie. It would depend on how Jackson uses the nylabone. If he gets a bit rambunctious or it seems to be causing too much movement, I would suggest something softer. Kongs are always a good choice and can keep them occupied for some time. Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn - excellent video series here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/theater.htm-- PRINT OUT this link and tape to your fridge: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm-- use the printout as your roadmap to avoid dangerous detours in your dog’s care -- make notes/highlight to keep yourself on track Follow all the links in the next days to become the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog needs. Use the “search box” to easily locate topics over at our Main www.Dodgerslist.com website: www.dodgerslist.com/index/searchBOX.jpg |
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 1, 2018 6:07:50 GMT -7
Jackson has not exhibited any pain since we got him home on 10/16 (date we started strict crate rest) and his neuro has steadily improved! Of course, now he is having spurts of energy in his crate where he digs or pushes his bedding around or shakes his head a lot...we immediately try to stop it when we see him doing that.
We called the vet to see if we could do his recheck over the phone-- they [surgeon?] insist that he come in so they can evaluate his neuro function and decide which meds if any he still needs to be on. I pushed the appointment back a week to 11/9. I'm going to try to see if they will at least do the exam in front of me so he doesn't have to go in the back (where I have seen techs hold him wrong or make him walk)
Jackson weighs about 17lbs.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
17lbs
Rimadyl as of date?: for how many days? then stop as a test for pain/neuro issues
gabapentin ?mgs in one mL?: ?mgs (1.3mL dose) 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) ? mgs ?x/day ]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 1, 2018 12:56:27 GMT -7
Great that Jackson is showing no signs of pain. Has there been any change in his meds up to now?
If your vet still wants to see him, pad out the crate with rolled up towels or blanket so that Jackson will not shift in the crate as you turn a corner or brake.
I think it is a good idea to have him evaluated in front of you if the vet will agree. If nothing else, dogs are usually calmer when their owners are present.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 2, 2018 9:43:30 GMT -7
What specifically do you see as neuro improvement?
-- do paws knuckle under when standing?
-- do nails graze the floor, not able to completely pick up the paw properly?
-- do legs cross, appear weak
Neuro improvement would shows a positive path in nerve repair. There are no meds that would aid in healing damaged nerves. Nerve repair is something the body does by itself on its own time line.
The reason to stay on meds would be the observance of pain. Of course with pain meds on pain, there is no way to confirm if there is still painful swelling...it is being masked. Having no stop of Rimadyl with stop of pain meds also does not give a clear picture is meds are still needed to get inflamamtion resolved or if no meds are needed because no signs of pain surface.
If a test for pain were done prior to 11/9 and there is no pain, then there would be no reason for a risky to disc vet visit. Something definatley to approach your vet with this idea.
I have not ever had a neuro or any other vet not allow me to be with my dog for an exam. If, I'm not allowed to be there, observe the exam, then that would not be the vet for my dog's health care team.
Let us know what changes to the med list are made and by what kind of vet (general DVM or a specialist ACVIM or ACVS vet)
17lbs
Rimadyl as of date?: for how many days? then stop as a test for pain/neuro issues
gabapentin ?mgs in one mL?: ?mgs (1.3mL dose) 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) ? mgs ?x/day
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 2, 2018 9:59:51 GMT -7
The vet is a DVM surgical resident at Veterinary Specialists and Emergency Services in Rochester, NY.
On 10/16 it seemed like his back legs had lost about 80% function. When we took him outside to go potty with a sling, he would move them stiffly but couldn't support much weight. He was moving himself in his crate with his front legs. Now when we take him out, he squats all on his own with good posture. It seems easier for him to adjust himself in his crate and if we help him to a stand he can support himself.
He has been on and off these meds for months but the below regimen started on 10/15
Rimadyl: 25mg tablet - 1/2 tab given 2x/day
Gabapentin: 250mg/5mls (1.3mL dose) 3x/day
Methocarbamol 500mg tabs - 1/4 tab given 2x/day
Pepcid AC: 10mg pill - 1/4 of pill given 2x/day
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
17lbs
Rimadyl 12.5mg 2x/day as of 10/15: 18+ days so far!!! for how many days? then stop as a test for pain/neuro issues
gabapentin 250mgs in 5mL: 65mgs (1.3mL dose) 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) 2.5 mgs 2x/day]
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 2, 2018 12:57:49 GMT -7
Being strong enough to support his weight is a good sign. Can he maintain his balance well once he is standing?
I agree with Paula that the pet parent should be present during the exam. I like to see what is going on and I know Frankie wants to see me. You could explain to your vet that you want to be present for the evaluation and he may be fine with it.
The usual dose of the Pepcid AC would be 5mg every 12 hours. You could just break the 10mg pill in half.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 2, 2018 13:01:08 GMT -7
I won't have my dog go to anything I'm not allowed at: grooming, hydrotherapy, or exams.
That way if someone tries to do something that I know could hurt their IVDD I can say no!
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 2, 2018 13:13:25 GMT -7
Thank you all for letting me know that it is totally acceptable to insist that the exam take place in front of me. I’m mad at myself for letting them take him in the back so many times.
Today he got himself to a stand in his crate on his own and took a wobbly step to adjust himself in his bed. He also tried to do a rolly polly (that’s what we call when the dogs roll around on their backs) but didnt really have room in the crate. The next time I take him to go potty I’ll test his ability to correct his back paws.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 2, 2018 14:00:30 GMT -7
It's all a learning curve. I heard a saying, " When you know better, you do better."
I too have been intimidated by "experts" but over time have learned that the best advocate for my dog is me.
You're doing a wonderful job caring for Jackson.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 3, 2018 7:55:05 GMT -7
Ashely, the DVM surgical resident is insisting that Jackson be subjected to a risky transport to the clinic to check on his neuro functions? Neuro repairs - On 10/16 you reported he could move his legs but not able to stand nor walk well. - On 11/2 you report he could move himself up into a stand AND he took a few wobbly steps. - This sounds like an improvement in repair of neuro function to me. - No meds were involved in self repairing nerves-no Rimadyl did that. Jackson in on a tragectory of nerve repaifing!!! - Have you reporting your observations to the DVM surgical resident and expressed your concerns of risky transports? - What benefit(s) would the visit have to offer to Jackson that overides ensuring liminted movement of the back to protect the healing disc? Is there still painful swelling around the spinal cord going on? No one can know with certaintly UNTIL the stop of going on now 18+ days of Rimadyl and all pain meds. Most vets call for a 7 or a 14 day course of the anti-inflammatory and then stop to see where painful inflammation is---that is whether another course is needed. To adjust meds, many times it is done over the phone to avoid risk to the disc of too much movement during a transport into the clinic. If no pain surfaces, then no meds at all are needed. I like what Julie wrote..."when you know better you can do better" in communicating with your vet. Asking good questions and discussing options with your vet is part of doing better as your knowledge of IVDD increases. Questions I would have for my own vet would be.... --- What harm would it to stop Rimadyl to get a quick assessment about pain? Some vets prefer to back off the pain masking pain meds with the stop of Rimadyl while others call for a full stop of them on the day Rimadyl is stopped. What does your vet prefer? --- The stop of Rimadyl may also show signs of worsening neuro function you need to monitor for. Alert your vet asap to get another course of Rimadyl back on board. Often when a stop of Rimadyl will occur on the weekend or nights when they are not open, a Plan B is agreed on ahead of time. One plan might be you have a few pills left and would restart Riimadyl until the vet reopens. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Pain caused by the re-tearing of a healing disc disc & inflammation around the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle under 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm#surgeryVSconservativeAshely, let us know what your thinking is and if your phone communication with the DVM surgical resident produces a plan you are comfortable with. You are Jackson's advocate and protector. |
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 7, 2018 12:11:56 GMT -7
I called the vet over the weekend to ask if we could try stopping some meds and see how he did. Per her instructions, we stopped methocarbamol on Saturday and did not see any change in his behavior. We stopped Rimadyl on Tues (his last dose was Mon. at dinner). He has remained on the gab. I think he seems a bit more stiff/slow off the Rimadyl but my husband doesn't think he has changed any behavior so we are still keeping a close watch.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
17lbs
Rimadyl 12.5mg 2x/day as of 10/15: for 23 days then stop 11/6 as a test for pain/neuro issues
gabapentin 250mgs in 5mL: 65mgs (1.3mL dose) 3x/day]
The vet still insisted that we come in on Friday for the recheck. I will do everything to try and get them to do the exam in front of me and not take him in the back. We use a stroller to transport him and keep him in his "help me up" harness with handles on the upper and lower part of his back--it makes it easier to keep him still and secure.
Is there anything I should ask them to do/not do at the appointment? I know they usually feel his back at each disc to see his reaction... should I tell them not to? Or walking?
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 7, 2018 13:55:07 GMT -7
I am happy to hear that Jackson is doing well with only the gabapentin. That is really good news. If he were to stop the gabapentin there would be no pain meds possibly masking any swelling that still remains. If pain returns when no pain meds are on board we know swelling remains and more time on the Rimadyl is needed.
I am sorry that the vet is still insisting you come in, I think you can just tell the vet you feel more comfortable staying in the room during the examination. The vet may want to touch the back lightly and see him walk just a little bit. The goal is still to keep movement limited.
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 9, 2018 11:20:53 GMT -7
Hi all,
We just got back from the vet. She [DVM surgical resident] agreed to do the exam in front of us. Holding onto his harness she had him walk around the exam room. She noticed his back legs still crisscross a bit. When she tested his reflexes (correcting his back paws when she turns them under) she said it seemed noticeably quicker than when he was there on 10/15. We told her we hadn't seen much of a change in his behavior since stopping the rimadyl... and no evidence of pain. She was happy to hear that and said she didn't need to see him again unless anything worsened or he seemed in pain.
She said once our current bottle of gab. is done, to start the next bottle only administering 2x day and then if he does okay with that, lower the dose (I need to call back for written instructions because she didn't provide details).
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
17lbs
Rimadyl 12.5mg 2x/day as of 10/15: for 23 days then stop 11/6 as a test for pain/neuro issues
gabapentin 250mgs in 5mL: 65mgs (1.3mL dose) 3x/day]
She also said we could start controlled walks in a couple of weeks...I've mentioned the strict 8 weeks crate rest before and this vet office just doesn't agree with it.
That being said, my husband and I are still in total agreement to complete 8 weeks. We will taper the gab. as she suggested but keep him crate rested until the full 8 weeks is over.
I will keep you updated if anything changes with his healing.
Thank you,
Ashley
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 9, 2018 12:43:14 GMT -7
Ashley, the question is .... what is the harm to start the gabapentin backing off today rather than continue on in a blind state as to the pain in the spinal cord area? What purpose does continuing gabapentin @ 3x/day serve? There is a purpose to backing gabapentin off to avoid rebound pain and to reveal if all pain is really gone or the need to have an anti-inflammatory back on board.
I'm glad that Jackson's healing disc is now back in the safety of his recovery suite and the vet confirming what you had already been reporting on Nov 2 about self repair of nerves taking place. Good to hear you will stay the course of ensuring the disc heals and begin an introduction back to physical activity when it is safe at graduation day.
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 9, 2018 12:59:31 GMT -7
I understand your point. I will confirm that my husband is on board to start the taper now and see how he does (it's a team effort in our household!)
I also forgot to mention that the DVM surgical resident felt along his back--first with her fingers and then with this metal tweezer like instrument. I thought for sure he would yelp (he is very expressive) but he didn't. There was one spot where his back twitched but overall she said it was a good sign.
Lastly, there were TWO other dachshund owners in the waiting room of the vet. Both IVDD survivors. I wish there weren't so many of us in this club, but it's nice to have support.
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 16, 2018 13:38:41 GMT -7
Hello all, We started the taper (from 3x/day to 2x/day) on 11/12 I believe it was. No sign of pain. No further improvement of neuro... he can walk and stand but it is very wobbly and unsteady. There is a part of me that thinks he would recover more neuro function if he were back on Rimadyl...it seemed to work so well and I just not sure it had stopped working. Any thoughts on whether I should ask the surgical DVM resident about that? The issue we have been dealing with this week is an inflamed cyst on his ear that has been bleeding and pussing and causing him to shake his head.  We sent our regular vet a photos and she prescribed antibiotics. He takes it 1x/day and started last night so we are hoping it works swiftly. It already looked a bit better this morning. |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 16, 2018 13:52:56 GMT -7
Ashley, there are no meds that will heal nerves. Nerves can be the slowest part of the body to self heal. Thinking in terms of months rather than days/weeks is the better idea.
-- Rimadyl, again will not heal nerves.
-- Rimadyl's job is to reduce inflamed tissue near the spinal cord area.
-- Inflammation causes pressure on the nerve bundle.
-- Pressure causes pain and could also cause diminishment to neuro functions. Nerves in the cord that receive too much pressure react by dying. We see that death as increased or new neuro diminishment
Your job at home is to monitor for pain surfacing and new neuro diminishment as the Rimadyl's anti-inflammatory properties are lessening each day after its stop on Nov 12.
What is the name of the antibiotic on board now?
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Nov 20, 2018 15:45:41 GMT -7
✚Cefpodoxime Prox is the name of the antibiotic (50mg/day).
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
17lbs
Rimadyl 12.5mg 2x/day as of 10/15: for 23 days then stop 11/6 as a test for surfacing pain/neuro issues
gabapentin 250mgs in 5mL: 65mgs (1.3mL dose) ▼2x/day
✚Cefpodoxime Prox 50mgs 1x/day]
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Dec 9, 2018 7:12:56 GMT -7
Hi all,
We've been slow to wean Jackson totally off ▼Gabapentin. A few days ago we went from .5ml 2x/day to .25/ml 2x/day.
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
17lbs
Rimadyl 12.5mg 2x/day as of 10/15: for 23 days then stop 11/6 as a test for surfacing pain/neuro issues
gabapentin 250mgs in 5mL: ▼0.25mL dose 2x/day
Cefpodoxime Prox 50mgs 1x/day]
As a reminder, he started at 1.3ml 3x/day so this is a significant reduction. We are undecided if he seems uncomfortable. No yelping or crying. Still takes good steps and has good posture when we let him out for potty....but I feel like when he is in his crate he is moving slower and slightly hesitant. Should we continue to try to reduce the gab to 0 or should we call the vet?
It's also almost the 8th week of crate rest and very cold and snowy where we live... so it's really hard to tell if this change in behavior is pain related or due to other factors.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 9, 2018 8:27:14 GMT -7
Ashely, it could be weather related, could be stiffness of not moving much. Can you stop the gabapentin now as the 0.25mgs twice a day is pretty much like not giving any. You want a true test. Normally all meds are stopped at min of a week prior to being able to graduate.
Let us know what you observe the remainder of the day.
It is coldest at floor level unless you have in-floor heating. Is Jackson warm enough, maybe a light sweater or warmed from the dryer blanket?
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Post by Ann Brittain on Dec 9, 2018 8:49:41 GMT -7
We had a dog named Charlie who did not have IVDD, but he was bitten by a large dog about mid back. The vet ex-rayed his spine and found two discs had fused together. After the swelling went down, Charlie returned to normal, but I made the mistake of letting him out to play one day when it was snowy and cold. The next day he was moaning in pain. From then on, we avoided letting him go outside, for more than potty breaks, when the temp dropped below 40 degrees.
Any human with back trouble or arthritis knows cold can make it worse, so it's not surprising that dogs would have the same reaction.
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Dec 10, 2018 5:43:55 GMT -7
We keep the house at 68 and even before Jackson's injury, I would put a "hot" (warm) water bottle or heating pad in his bed because, like me, he hates the cold.
We stopped the gabapentin last night (his last .25 dose was yesterday morning). Usually the biggest sign that he is uncomfortable or in pain is when he poops...he pooped this morning with no issue so we are being cautiously optimistic. I think I will hold off on calling the vet. My husband and I talked about extending the crate rest another week while we really get a feel for how he is doing off meds. Any issue with that you think?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 10, 2018 8:01:25 GMT -7
Ashely, he's had gabapentin at practically no effective dose for a week and last night you fully stopped it. I think you could observe him for a few more days and then graduate if no signs of disc episode pain surfaces.
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Dec 10, 2018 8:05:34 GMT -7
Thank you for your input! We will do that. Fingers crossed.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 10, 2018 8:09:32 GMT -7
Ashley, keep us posted on how it goes. If confirmed no meds/no pain, we can share with you tips how to handle graduation.
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Dec 10, 2018 17:18:53 GMT -7
Perplexing development...
Jackson wears the full body Help Em Up harness so that we can support/control his body and back legs when he is going potty. Last night I was gently sliding my fingers under the straps that are on his back legs/hip area (not his spine) and he let out a loud yelp. I wasn't applying any pressure but he's never been a fan of being touched on his side. My husband was watching and thought maybe it was because I startled him. Since he was acting normal otherwise (eating normally, peeing/pooping normally, not acting painful) we thought it was a one-off. Tonight, my husband was gently petting him and ran his hands across his hip/side and he let out the same loud yelp.
It's so strange because other than those two brief yelps, he seems okay. I let him sit on his favorite rug today and he scratched his ears on it and flopped on his side and wiggled to scratch his whole body. No sign of pain.
We called the surgeon and they said we could do a few days of gab and rimadyl and then see how he does after that. We're thinking of trying 3-4 days of those meds, and then seeing how he does if we take him off.
We haven't ended his crate rest yet-- just let him sit on the carpet yesterday and today but we held him both times so he couldn't walk anywhere.
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Post by Pauliana on Dec 10, 2018 19:00:12 GMT -7
Hi Ashley!
Sorry to hear Jackson is yelping at times... Does he wear this full body help em up all the time? Have you taken it off to check the areas he is sensitive about?
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Post by Ashley & Jackson on Dec 10, 2018 19:24:31 GMT -7
We only put the harness on him when we have to lift him out of the crate to take him to go potty or to stroll around the house in the dog stroller. We don't leave him in it because he tries to chew it off or wiggle out of it and gets tangled. I'm wondering if 8 weeks of lifting him in the harness has made the hip area tender. I feel torn because if that is the case, letting him walk out of his crate and outside for potty would be a good thing, but if it's his back, we should keep using the harness. I wish dogs could talk!!! |
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 11, 2018 8:03:53 GMT -7
Ashely, do continue to crate while on those few extra days of Rimady/gabapentin. Instead of the Help 'em up harness, do you have another harness to attach the leash to? How is his wobbly walk, more steady or still the need to use a rear end sling? If still too wobbly, use a long scarf or a figure-8 sling as kind of backup should his butt start to fall over? See how the change from no more Full Body Help 'em Up to just a front harness and a sling work out as far as eliciting yelps.  If you see no abraison, or bruising caused by the Help 'em Up, discuss with the vet about the possibility of arthritis beginning in the pelvic joint? As you mention otherwise he seems to act normal with no painfulness. Rimadyl (carprofen) and other canine NSAIDS are stronger being more of a "broad spectrum" anti-inflammatory med and can help with the inflammation during a disc episode. A new NSAID, Galliprant, was designed very SPECIFICALLY for the EP4 receptor that is shown (by research) to be the main cause of pain and inflammation associated with ARTHRITIS. NOTE: same as with switching from any NSAID to another NSAID there needs to be 4-7 days of washout before the begin of Galliprant should be used. Take a look at this Galliprant pkg insert sheet for the full information. |
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We sent our regular vet a photos and she prescribed antibiotics. He takes it 1x/day and started last night so we are hoping it works swiftly. It already looked a bit better this morning.
