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Post by Allison & PennyLane on May 29, 2018 3:00:40 GMT -7
Ughhhhhh. I'm devastated. As of 5 am this morning, Penny Lane has had a relapse. My husband was leaving for work and went to touch her and she yelped. This immediately woke me up and I came running downstairs. This time it seems to be in her neck as she's holding her head very low and any manipulation makes her shiver terribly. If you try to move her by picking her up, as soon as you put pressure on her front end, she cries.
I am so terribly sad and I'm not sure what to do. No, actually, I know EXACTLY what to do.. The problem is finding a vet to be on board with it. We have switched vets so many times in the last few years (three in the last three or so years), it is driving me bats and I've gotten to where my trust is extremely low. We live in a rural community, so we are already driving an hour to go to our vet. We've exhausted the in town vets. She has been GREAT for the most part. She is an extremely knowledgeable holisitic vet, is on board with Penny not receiving shots (she's TERRIBLY allergic), and they even have an underwater treadmill on site for rehab! Unfortunately, when we were going through the whole crate rest last fall and winter that went on and on, she did *not* support me in crating her for so long. Initially all was fine, but when Penny had the immediate relapse in December, she told me to not keep her in the crate. We were having problems with Penny staying calm in the crate and I had asked for some calmative to help us get her through it and she refused. She basically said we had done so much for her and gotten her this far (Penny is 13, her initial episode was when she was 4), but it was a quality of life issue to keep putting her in the crate. *sighs* I was SO upset by that, especially since we had been really happy with this vet until that point. We’ve continued using her because she is fantastic with everything, BUT that. I finished that episode with Penny on my own basically as I had the meds in house and thankfully found a higher dose herbal calmative that just got us through it. Now I don't know what to do. The emergency vets in this area won't treat because she isn't up to date on her vaccines. I knew I'd run into a vet wall at some point, I just was hoping it wasn't soon. Ughhhhhhh. I don't know what to do vetwise....
I need to figure it out though in the next few hours before clinics open up for the day. Until then, I had meloxicam and tramadol on hand, so I've given her her doses for that as well as the famotidine. Doses are what were listed in the posting above from the winter. I'm out of gabapentin and her other pain med, so I know we need to figure out where to take her asap. :*(
[Moderator's note: please do not modify
10.1bs
Meloxicam 1.5mg/mL: 5/29 for how many days?
Tramadol 12.5mgs 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
I just wanted to mention I DO have her in the crate. No way I won’t crate her at this point. I just don’t know what to do vet-wise.
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on May 29, 2018 4:15:54 GMT -7
I'm so sorry to hear that Penny Lane is having another disc episode, Allison, this time in her neck. Neck injuries can sometimes be much more painful than back injuries so often times it takes all three pain meds to get the pain under control at aggressive dosages - Tramadol, Gabapentin and Methocarbamol. It's unfortunate that you have limited experienced vets available but you've been doing a great job caring for Penny Lane and have learned so much, I know you'll do what you can to get her the best care and now know when you're given incorrect information. You just need to get the proper meds on board and you can do the 8 weeks of crate rest on your own. With a neck injury, most experienced vets will prescribe a steroid such as Prednisone or Dexamethasone, which is a stronger anti-inflammatory than a NSAID such as Meloxicam. There normally needs to be a 4-7 day washout period when switching from a NSAID (Meloxicam) to a steroid. However, should the vet deem it medically necessary to make such a switch, a switch can be made without a washout period by adding TWO stomach protectors, Sucralfate as well as Famotidine. There are additional steps that you'll need to take to help this neck injury heal, such as softening hard kibble, raising food/water dishes so she doesn't have to bend her head - more tips here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/cervical.htmDo keep us up to date on how you make out getting the proper meds on board this morning to get Penny Lane's pain completely under control. Healing prayers for Penny Lane. |
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Post by Allison & PennyLane on May 29, 2018 9:38:03 GMT -7
Our vet wasn't in today, but they did refill her previous meds, So we are on the Meloxicam as mentioned above (she didn't say how long, the bottle doesn't say, but I believe it was initially for two weeks? Then check for pain. Is that correct?), plus the pepcid/tramadol as above and: Gabapentin 50 mg 1 tablet every 8 hours Methocarbamol 500mg, 1/4 tab every 8 hours [Moderator's note: please do not modify
10.1bs / 4.58 kilograms
Meloxicam as of 5/29 1.5mg/mL: ?x/day for how many days? then taper to test for pain/neuro loss
tramadol 12.5mgs 3x/day
gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
Pepcid AC (famotidine) 5mgs 2x/day]
I also gave her a half chewable of Composure Pro to hopefully get her to calm down a bit in her crate. Gosh, this is gut wrenching, I haven't experienced her scream so much before. She has screamed in the past with episodes, but not this much. Then again, she's not had tons of neck issues in the past-it's always been lower. Just carrying her outside is extremely difficult. Should I see pain resolved soon (like today with the meds)? She's shivering in her crate right now with her head low. It seems like her neck has some swelling as well. Is swelling a normal thing? Again, we've mostly dealt with lower back/shoulder areas for her before, so this is slightly new. Ughhhhhh. I'm SO thankful that this board exists. You all have gotten me through this for years with her! You keep me calm and in turn I can keep her and my husband calm!  Yes, I wish pred would be our main medication, but with our vet out, I can't even discuss it with her until she's back in the office. I didn't want to make Penny wait a day or more, so we're on the NSAID from her previous episode. I hope it does the trick. |
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on May 29, 2018 17:59:07 GMT -7
Allison, you would expect pain to be fully in control dose to dose within 60 mins or less IF the pain meds have been correctly prescribed.
If she is not out of pain, advocate for:
--- Tramadol to be given at the MAX ANALGESIC dose for a 10.1 lbs/4.58 kg dog every 8 hrs.
Plumb's is considered the "drug bible" of the veterinary world.
Let us know how Penny is doing with the gabapentin and methocarbamol on board now.
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Post by Allison & PennyLane on May 30, 2018 9:43:03 GMT -7
As of this morning, she is feeling GREAT! Too great in fact. She's already started spastically digging on the crate door. This became an issue during her last crate rest around the five week mark, but this is only day two! *sighs* I'm hoping she'll calm down a bit. I gave her a dosage of Composure Pro, but I'm worried that may not be enough.
BUT, the happy news is she is seemingly pain free now! She had really bad swelling around her neck yesterday too. Is that normal? . That has completely resolved today
I did have a question about PT for her hind quarters. We were only just finally making progress on getting a little bit built back up after her winter crate rest. Is it possible for me to still do some light PT on her hind legs right now since her current issue is higher up? Something like light massage and bending of her hind legs? I'm worried she'll lose so much more tone this go around since she was already VERY light back there from the last bout.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on May 30, 2018 10:21:59 GMT -7
Allison, that is wonderful she had gotten full relief via the meds! Using any oral calmer like Composure Pro in combination with a Pheromone diffuser seems to work best if possible to avoid the more heavy duty prescription drugs. It takes several days for these calmers to start working - it isn't immediate. Of course always keep your vet in the loop on all things you give your dog. Other product brands may be available in your area or on-line… just shop by the active ingredient(s) on the label and the quantity for best price. Place a DAP pheromone diffusor at floor level where the recovery suite is. Two brands: --Comfort Zone (DAP) wall plug-in diffuser 48ml www.petcomfortzone.com/dogs.html --Adaptil (DAP) wall plug in diffuser 48ml www.adaptil.com/Good to hear swelling is gone, don't know what that would have been. Since it is her neck, if you see some very, very light least aggressive ROM does not make her move her neck you might be able to give it a try. However, usually just the normal potty breaks and the very fewest of footsteps then is enough PT to keep those joints moving and muscles working in the back legs. Most dogs who can walk, will not like you doing the PT. You wlll find a video and tips for that very, very light least aggressive ROM movement for the back legs here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htm |
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Post by Allison & PennyLane on May 31, 2018 17:19:43 GMT -7
Ok, now I have another question...
I was out of town for the day and just got home. Penny is extremely bright, alert, and BOSSY! She is barking full power and during the day, my husband gave her a cheese chew. She’s happily knawing away at that.
Here is the kicker. I asked my husband about her noon pain meds (we’ve been giving them at noon, 8pm, and 4 am) and he got pale in the face then tells me he forgot. It’s now 8:15 pm, she has not had her pain meds since 4 am. Should she be completely pain free this soon?!
I’m asking as she did have major neck swelling the first day. It had gotten so bad, I had to remove her collar. I’m starting to wonder if maybe something bit her and she had a reaction which caused the pain? I’m not sure. I haven’t removed her from the crate. I just don’t know what to do. Should I give her more pain meds or not? I am perplexed! Thoughts?
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Post by Pauliana on May 31, 2018 21:24:32 GMT -7
Allison, I would give her the pain meds and treat this as if it is a neck disc episode until you know it isn't IVDD related. Does she have any bite marks or any signs of having been bitten by something? If she is having a neck disc episode, be careful of giving her anything to chew on as it could cause her to move her neck too much.. The dose or doses of Meloxicam could have eased the swelling so she is beginning to feel better.. Perhaps a Medication chart would help to remind your husband to give the doses on time. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/crateRRP/medchart.pdf |
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Post by Allison & PennyLane on Feb 11, 2020 21:49:03 GMT -7
Back after quite some time. Miss Penny Lane will be turning 15 in a few months with almost 11 years of managing IVDD. She is still as sassy as ever and continues to boss her younger, “brother,” around on a daily basis.
We are struggling with a new problem currently. We have been dealing with CONSTANT, and I do mean constant, UTI’s for close to six months now. She has had UTI’s off and on through the years, but usually we have lots of time between them. Literally she has had UTI’s of differing bacteria for six months. She goes on one antibiotic for one bug, finishes that and immediately gets another UTI that cultures with a diff cause. We express her frequently-usually every hour and a half or so. Occasionally longer if one of us can’t be home, but generally it’s every hour and a half.
She has been on several supplements. She takes cranberry extract... we’ve added methenamime (so?) to try to help... we clean her bottom, etc.
She has been on all kinds of antibiotics and we just can’t kick this cluster at all. She has lost some strength in her hind legs over the last year (she’s been a spinal walker since her first IVDD episode at age 4) and her mobility isn’t what it used to be. She still does well on carpet most of the time, but if she goes into our kitchen, she just scoots along. I quickly noticed that her lady bits/etc get smooshed when she does that and I suspect that is part of the equation with these UTI’s. We now have the kitchen gated off so she can’t get in there beyond just mealtime. We dont want to use a scoot bag yet if we don’t have to as she does still run and walk in the rest of the house. I’m afraid if we commit to a scoot bag, she’ll lose more of her hind end strength.
Is there anything else we can try? I’m so frustrated for her. We’ve managed her so well over the years, but I don’t know what else I can do to help her and I feel like we’re just stuck in this constant state of UTI’s. I also worry about her being on so many antibiotics now. One of the strains she had two months ago was resistant to everything except two meds and the only med we could get semi affordably had to be specially ordered. It’s also becoming a significant financial strain to be in a constant pattern of $150 per culture (usually two cultures or more per UTI) and antibiotic rounds that can cost over $100 as well. I’m hoping someone might have some other suggestions as to things we could try for her.
I will add she does not seem bothered by any of it. There was only one infection where we noticed she was off (that resistant one), but all of the other times, she’s her jolly self. We only know because I’ve become far too precise in identifying diff urine smells. It’s gotten to where I can identify specific UTI bacteria solely by the smell differences!
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Post by Julie & Perry on Feb 12, 2020 0:22:48 GMT -7
My Nala had problems with recurring UTI's in the past and my vet did pulse therapy with antibiotics.
There's an article at speakingforspot.com titled "canine bladder infections part 3" that talks about this and other treatments by Dr. Nancy Kay.
She wrote a really good book called "Speaking for Spot.'
Hope this helps.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,540
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Post by PaulaM on Feb 12, 2020 9:01:53 GMT -7
Allison, your update on PennyLane feeling good and her normal sassy is good to hear since Summer of 2018 disc episode!! Recurrent UTIs are a challenge. Dodgerlist went to Dr. Olby to help us understand this issue. I hope you will find something that you have not considered that you you might to see if that works. Here is the article to read over: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/uti.htm Would love to have another update on the progress of the UTI. What worked what did not. Fingers crossed in finding the right therapy to combate this UTI issue. |
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