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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 9, 2017 20:04:51 GMT -7
I've struggled with guilt over crating also. What helped me is to realize that it's the same as being in the hospital. Nobody wants to be there but sometimes it's necessary.
Having multiple crates so you can still have Waffles be part of everything is good.
If Waffles is pretty calm you can put the crate by a window or screen door so he can look outside.
And anytime you go by or take out potty you can pay and snuggle.
I've finally been able to look at crate rest as a gift I give to my dog because I love her.
It's very hard but often has incredible results.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 10, 2017 11:30:27 GMT -7
Thanks for acknowledging feelings of guilt!
I've lined up a vet tech to watch Waffles when we take my son to college. She will come meet Waffles the week before. It's a huge load off my mind.
Waffles did the circle walk thing and pooped outside!
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Aug 10, 2017 11:54:25 GMT -7
Hi Abby! I am a dog mom going through what you are right now and I just wanted to stop in on your thread to say you aren't alone in having the feelings you are having. When my Jazzy went down several days ago, I had NO IDEA what IVDD was...I started thinking the worst. I approached it as a death sentence like my little girl was 3 years old and at that young of an age she wouldn't walk again? Even 24 hours ago I was a mess. I didn't crate Jazzy immediately like I should have. My vet didn't say to and I was in the mindset, "I'm not going to crate her unless I absolutely have to - I don't want her to think she is being punished". I wish I would have crated her sooner! And she is taking it so well! I am attaching two photos - I don't have a photo of her night time crate but I put her crate where we are. When we are eating breakfast, doing dishes, making dinner, anything that is going to require us to be in the kitchen for more than 10-15 minutes, we bring her crate in there. When we are in the living room, she is in there. If she is being calm and allows me to do this without getting too excited, I will lay in the doorway of her crate and pet her as she drifts off to sleep. She doesn't seem like she feels left out of anything! We are constantly talking to her and petting her It isn't a death sentence and that is important to remember. I have had to come to terms with that myself. Our babies need us now more than ever! I think you and I can both become IVDD momma pros! Hopefully neither of our babies will have anymore episodes but should they happen again, I think you and I will be much more prepared compared to how we were having this happen for the first time. Hang in there. You aren't alone.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 10, 2017 17:32:00 GMT -7
Thanks for sharing Emily. What a cutie!
I feel like her when I pet her, her back feels more bony than it used to. And she is shedding. I guess that's normal?
My kids were out and my husband dragged me out to dinner. We left her alone crated (as opposed to penned) in the house and I guess she survived. Will take a few more times to get used to it.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 11, 2017 9:59:44 GMT -7
Abby, good to hear you are able to enjoy some "you and hubby time out to dinner.. Often dogs just sleep when owners are gone.
Not sure what would cause the shedding... all over shedding? With not getting exercise, perhaps a bit of muscle loss that will quickly come back when it is safe for the disc after 8 weeks of rest.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 11, 2017 11:19:12 GMT -7
Thanks Paula. Today's a little 'ruff' for her. We have to get the oven and a/c fixed and she can't 'protect us' like she would want! I've moved her suite to the outside til they are done. Poor pumpkin!
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Post by Emily & Zeus on Aug 11, 2017 11:43:26 GMT -7
We are getting ready to go through the same thing with a bathroom remodel this next weekend. Has to be done. Everything happens all at once doesn't it? And at the most inopportune times it seems!
Poor Waffles!
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 12, 2017 12:28:02 GMT -7
She has settled down. Good luck with your remodel.
I think she was a little stressed in the crate. There was a drool puddle on the floor. 😕 Will have to try the suggested strategies.
She is doing very well. While out to pee she stood up and walk several steps. I'd cut her food down from 1 cup twice a day to 2/3 cup twice a day and stopped some of her extra snacks, I didn't want her to get overweight being sedentary. Well she lost 4 pounds! No wonder she is looking bony. Back up to 1cup and mid morning pb and banana.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 12, 2017 12:53:21 GMT -7
It is great that Waffles is peeing and able to stand and walk the very few steps necessary.
We generally suggest not putting our IVDD dogs on a diet at this time because they need all their strength to heal and a diet at this time may cause unnecessary stress. So putting her back on what she usually eats is a good idea. If you are concerned about her gaining weight you can always cut down on snacks or give something like carrot sticks for a snack.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 12, 2017 13:47:22 GMT -7
I had discussed food with the vet and decided to drop the amount down, but I also dropped usu snacks. Will go back to what we were doing.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 12, 2017 18:38:50 GMT -7
Healing takes a tremendous amount of energy and good nutrition helps. My Nala gained a couple of pounds on crate rest. However, as soon as she got active again it came right off.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 12, 2017 19:50:53 GMT -7
It's so nerve racking. We finally got wheels on the crate and a good pad. We wheeled it into the kitchen when we ate and she still barked up a storm and was panting etc. We ignored her. Hopefully it will get better. I don't think I'm into the pheremone calmers. I need some specific reassurance that when she is alone in the house in the crate if she barks and barks and pants and pants it is okay. I guess I assume that the picture that is painted of the 24/7 calm dog is the ideal but in reality they aren't always that way. I don't feel like I'm living up to it. The fact that she is standing/walking (for pee breaks, short distance, with sling support) more steadily every day means I'm either doing it right or she is healing regardless. Tonight I'm stressing on the weight loss. I have to lighten up. Nite Nite.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 13, 2017 4:14:37 GMT -7
Have you tried covering the top of her crate with a towel or blanket, Abby? That creates a den-like feeling that calms dogs down. If she's looking for attention, she may calm down when alone in the house and just sleep. Remember you still have the option of asking the vet for a mild sedative, which may be what is needed to help her relax. I know she's on a lot of meds but we've seen it sometimes necessary for a mild sedative to be added with good success.
Plain Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) with no additional medications added. Buy at your grocery store or pharmacy. Get the dosage from your vet. The wrong dose can have dangerous side effects, so your vet needs to prescribe the proper amount for your dog.
Consider some of these ideas:
-- Put a garment you have been wearing and have not washed in the crate.
-- Play classical music or one of the wildlife TV shows. Fill a Kong with soft dog food and freeze. Put part of the dog's total daily dinner kibble in the Kong to lengthen time to consume dinner. Good low cal snacks are carrots, apples, or frozen green beans, licking a frozen low sodium broth ice cube. Good thick low salt/no fat chicken broth is full of cartilage-building proteins and amino acids. Freeze it up into cubes for easy access as you need it. Fun and keeps the body hydrated: place cubes in a bowl for licking.
Try not to be so hard on yourself. Caring for an IVDD dog is a learning curve for each of us and we all have had our moments of panic and guilt. You're doing a great job caring for Waffles and it shows! And be sure to take care of yourself as well as you're taking care of Waffles.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 13, 2017 17:39:01 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie. Waffles is off all meds except the 48 hr steroid taper and the pepcid. I'm going to do a trial hour away tomorrow and see how big the drool puddle is when I get back! I will cover the crate. I've got today's shirt all cued up. She seems to like classical guitar...
About the chicken broth-the one I got had onion juice in it, isn't that bad for dogs? I made up a kong and ice cubes but I'm leery of giving it to her. I will have to look for one without.
My husband and I went to the beach to walk the boardwalk and walk in the water. First time this summer and it's mid August already. My 16 year old is with Waffles. I called to check in and he was all flustered. 'She's whining and I keep taking her out and she isn't peeing and my Dominos pizza is here and I want to eat and I don't know what to do'. Welcome to my world buddy but during the week I'm trying to work to pay for your Dominos pizza! Told him now he knows what life with an infant/toddler is like! Luckily she peed just then and chilled out and he got to eat. Phew.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 13, 2017 18:23:39 GMT -7
If you can't readily find one without onion, low fat, lo salt, it is pretty easy to make your own better broth. ~~Boil up a hamburger patty an a cup or so of water. Cool and discard the fat disc at the top. Crumble a bit of the meat into the mixture along with the more nutirious beef broth. ~~ Boil up some pieces of chicken, Cool, discard fat disc at top, de-skin, debone. Dice up to add some of the chicken into mixture along with the better nuturition jellied broth.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 19, 2017 22:57:32 GMT -7
Waffles continues to stand unaided. At potty time, with a sling assist to control her, she wobbly walks/sniffs to pee and poop. I feel like she is more wobbly then last week but that could be because she is moving a little faster. She doesn't need the sling and can squat unassisted but we use the sling instead of the leash. She mostly doesn't knuckle but occasionally does. She tries to jail break from the crate and xpen. Silly little truffle. -In this board's opinion, because she can stand/walk, I should wait until crate rest is over before starting PT, right? -Also I've noticed her gums must be bleeding a bit because I see some blood on her soft toys after she chews on them. She goes to the vet Tues night and I will see what he says. -Have you had members with no mri disc confirmation where the vet feels it is an fce and suggests stopping crate rest earlier than 8 weeks? Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 14, 2017 at 6:19amPaula, thanks for the recipes. Will pass on to my husband. I will do anything for Waffles except cook. Ha.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 20, 2017 4:01:32 GMT -7
Abby, you mentioned that Waffles is walking faster. Please do continue to keep her steps to a very, very few at potty time. Stand in one spot with a 6' leash to prevent her from taking too many steps. If she doesn't need a sling, then a leash would be better to prevent her from pulling away from you.
As long as she can move around in the crate, which she is able to do, then there should be no PT during the 8 weeks of crate rest. The less movement of the spine, the better. The disc has not healed yet and too much movement can cause the disc to tear more.
What is the purpose of the vet visit on Tuesday? Is that due to the bleeding of the gums? Vet visits should be reserved for only essential visits, such as worsening of neuro function, during conservative care. Transport to the vet is risky and may cause too much movement of the spine. Dental issues should wait until after crate rest.
As long as there is any suspicion that this is a disc episode, then strict crate rest for a full 8 weeks must be done. The priority is to protect the spine from further damage. Waffles has enough evidence of a disc episode that it makes protection of the spine a vital priority.
You've seen improvement in Waffles just this short period of time on crate rest so you know that it's working. Please continue the good work that you've done and keep up with the strict crate rest.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 20, 2017 4:26:03 GMT -7
Hmmm. Our vet didn't think it was a disc issue. The purpose of the visit is for him to assess her progress. Do you suggest a harness or collar with the leash? We used to use the harness just for serious walks. We need the sling to heft her 40 pounds out of the house. Might not be possible to use both sling and harness. In the end, we have to make our decision based on info we receive from various sources and our vet. If we decide not to do the full 8 weeks I will stop posting. Thanks.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 20, 2017 4:54:55 GMT -7
Abby, you have to decide what's best for Waffles but I'll just weigh in with my experience.
Last year my gut told me my dog was having an episode start. I didn't want to believe it.
So when my vet said arthritis I didn't do crate rest.
It got worse and it was an IVDD episode.
My vet's great but she doesn't know my dog like I do.
I believe because I waited to crate rest this episode was worse and six weeks later I had to crate rest again.
Best wishes for you and Waffles.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 20, 2017 6:28:26 GMT -7
Julie-you could only make the best decision you could at the time. Don't be too hard on yourself. Altho this is a fear, that at some point I will make the 'wrong' decision. Who came up with this free will nonsense anyway? I still can't understand her barks. It was my turn to sleep in the living room with her last night. 12:15 am Barking. Took her out, no pee. 1:15 am. Barking. Took her out, success, pee! Waited a few moments then took her back in. Sporadic whining/wimpering throughout the rest of the night. 6:30am. Barking. Got up and looked and stone cold poop in the bed. Poor thing. Mean Negligent Mom.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 20, 2017 9:37:29 GMT -7
Abby, what then did your vet "think" caused all the damage to the spinal cord if it was not a disc doing the damage? Find out what are her other possible diagnosis for the cause of nerve damage? The treatment of meds fully resolved the swollen spinal cord with 6 days of steroids (Dex and prednisone) With such shorter time than it takes a disc to heal, you have observed enough nerve healing to bring back a more stable gait and less paw knuckling.
Back on Aug 2 pain and nerve damage status 1. √Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. √Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. √Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. √Paws knuckle 5. √Weak/little leg movement, √can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after conservative treatment.
Only an expensive $1500+ MRI can prove a disc problem and if not a disc then likely can show what other disease that mimics a disc episode. So since the medicine approach, the strict rest has brought so much good improvement, it seems a very prudent idea to finishing out the 8 weeks of rest until you have proof you had not been dealing with a disc episode on Aug 2. If it ain't broke (the treatment), then don't fix it! Stay the course with conservative treatment and let the disc fully heal.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Sept 9, 2017 3:58:04 GMT -7
Post by Abby & Waffles on Aug 30, 2017 at 8:47am Week 4 done. Yawn. Cannot wait til this is over. -----
Well into week 6. My husband had her in the sling and put her on the floor so he could open the xpen so he wouldn't have to lift her so high and she took off up the stairs. Guess we now know she can do that. Sigh. It's like having a toddler again. We move at a glacial pace around here. With only 2.5 weeks to go, where can I get info on therapy I can do at home to strengthen her rear legs and how to set up the house if she can't grip the hardwood floor? Also, to be conservative, Ive been treating this as a disc issue as opposed to an FCEM for the first 8 weeks. Any opinions of whether I should do that forever? I don't think FCEM dogs have the same prohibitions on jumping on couches, stairs etc. Also opinions on whether I will ever be able to just let her do whatever she wants to? Wrestle with other dogs? Run around real fast? When can I just let her in the fenced in yard and not have to sit with her? Can I ever take her to the dog park? Can I ever use my usual 'in their house' dog sitter who has several dogs of her own?
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 9, 2017 7:43:39 GMT -7
Please let us know that Waffles dodged a bullet with that escape and stairs. Any signs of pain surfacing? A harness and leash is in order from now with your Waffles then sling...oh boy, yup like a toddler having to watch and be one step ahead of them. Sling walking would be likely the PT---- a slow an incremental introduction beginning on graduation day Sep 27. We'll have more detail for you then. Here are some home modification ideas you may want to consider so that you can reduce the stress on the spine in the future. No more stairs, ramps up to furniture, or blocking furniture all together. All those ideas and more are in this link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmWithout a firm diagnosis of whether a spinal cord stroke (FCE) or a damaged disc (IVDD), the best course is to consider it a disc episode do things that can possibly protect the disc from another episode....all of course within reason. This is a very good essay on "Living with the Fear of IVDD" dodgerslist.boards.net/thread/410/living-fear-ivdd
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Sept 9, 2017 8:16:15 GMT -7
No pain at all! And we do use a leash and a sling. But he had taken the leash off as she was in the house. Even on the leash she runs to the limit of the leash to chase whatever she thinks she sees while outside pondering about peeing or pooping. She sees things way before we do. She didn't read the memo that she should do her business quickly and go back inside. I will take a look at the links. Tx.
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Sept 9, 2017 8:29:14 GMT -7
I read the living with ivdd link. I think I will just need to get over the guilt if something happens. I can see us sling her up and down stairs but I can't see how we keep her from jumping up and down from the couch or bed. Time will tell I guess. One thing at a time.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Sept 9, 2017 13:54:13 GMT -7
Going up and down stairs on her own, whether with the help of a sling or not, causes too much strain on the spine. Ideally, IVDD dogs are carried up stairs but I know Waffles is too large a dog for you to do that. You should probably block off the stairs completely and re-train Waffles to stay downstairs at night. Ramps can be used to get up and down onto furniture but you have to train Waffles to use them and not jump off the side of the ramp. Here's how to train: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/ramptrain.htmIt's best to keep Waffles on the floor. Block off furniture with furniture blockers. The floor can be made into a comfy, cozy place. Take as many egg-crate mattress toppers as you think will be comfy (3 work well) or a 4-inch memory foam mattress topper and cover it with a quilt, comforter, or blanket. Throw lots of pillows and blankets on top and you've created a comfy spot. Join her on the floor! More tips here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm
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Post by Abby & Waffles on Sept 28, 2017 5:00:07 GMT -7
So what's the PT? She's actually able to walk with no knuckling.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Sept 28, 2017 6:26:22 GMT -7
Abby, congratulations for follow through on all 8 weeks of rest. Her disc has had a chance to heal enough to now begin several weeks of slow and incremental introduction back to family life and activities. She's been a couch potato and needs time to strengthen her muscles. Too much activity can cause sore muscles. Pain can be difficult if you see it to distinguish between another disc problem or just sore muscles. So taking it easy and gradual in increasing activity is a good thing to do. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions by use of a leash and harness. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Also check out how to teach four paws on the floor! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmKeep us posted as Waffles increases the length of her controlled walks.
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