PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on May 18, 2017 19:14:17 GMT -7
Carolyn, a 5-day course of pred is pretty short. So do not loose hope as it can take 7-30 day on the anti-inflammatory pred dose (5mgs 2x/day) Any taper days do not count toward the 7-30 days it may take to resolve all painful swelling. It was good that the taper was not masked with pain masking pain meds so that you could get a prompt assessment about pain and ability to get back up on pred soonest.
In the morning, let us know you were successful in presenting your observations of pain to obtain an Rx for another course of pred and another test for pain taper + Pepcid AC + all pain meds back on board at dose and frequency that fully controls pain. We encourage working out a plan B before a taper starts with your vet , so you know what to do/have enough meds on hand, if pain surfaces at night or weekends when vet is not open.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on May 19, 2017 9:10:20 GMT -7
Thank you both! I spoke with the vet this morning, and they are fine on getting him back on the anti-inflammatory dose of Prednisone, and all pain meds as well as the Pepcid 30min before the Predisone are back on board. This is scheduled until at least his next vet appointment (May 26th), so they will be re-evaluating then on whether it is time to start another taper, and we will also be working out a plan B with them on what to do if he experiences pain again and they are not available during the next scheduled taper. Currently, we have plenty of pain medicines from his original dosing, but I will double check we have plenty to make it through that appointment. I had them refill the Prednisone just to be on the safe side, since we will be using up the initial prescribed dose more quickly with the return of the 2x per day.
I went ahead and gave him the Prednisone first thing this morning before their office was open, since he was due for at least one today anyway, and I wanted to plan ahead to accommodate both doses if we got approval for that. That way we can get back on his schedule right away.
So this is where we are: Prednisone 5mgs 2x day until May 26th vet appointment, then he will be evaluated to see if it is time to try a taper to 5mg 1 x a day at that time ▲Tramadol 50 mgs 3x day Gabapentin 100mgs 2x day Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x day 30 minutes before Prednisone
[19 lbs Prednisone as of 5/9: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days as of 5/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 7 days, taper 5/26? Pain surfaced on taper on 5/18 Tramadol 50 mgs ▲3x/day Gabapentin 100mgs 2x/day Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
Buckeye is resting comfortably. He ate a good breakfast and hasn't had any of the panting or anxious behavior since about 30minutes after his morning pills.
Thanks for all the support! Buckeye and Carolyn
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 19, 2017 9:41:04 GMT -7
Carolyn, good job on updating vet and getting meds back on board.
If you are continuing to see pain 30 mins after dosing then, pain meds would still need another adjustment. You would then advocate for: ---Gabapentin to be Rx'd 3x/day. This med has a short half life like Tramadol and does not stay level in the body enough when dosed 2x/day. --- Methocarbamol also 3x/day because it is short acting to address a different source of pain: muscle contraction pain.
Curious about May 26 appointment to see if there should be a taper. It is all a guess when to taper. While meds are on board, all pain should be masked, so what will the vet see on May 26 that makes a transport worth the risk to the disc? It may take a short time or several days before the unmasked pain appears. That is why pain meds are stopped on a taper, so that you at home will have be able to give a prompt report to the vet should unmasked pain resurface.
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Post by Julie & Perry on May 19, 2017 9:53:13 GMT -7
Don't get discouraged Carolyn. Buckeye is making progress. It can take time before they don't need the meds. Great job advocating for him and making a plan b.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on May 21, 2017 21:10:53 GMT -7
Thank you! Buckeye had a good weekend and with the return to the 2x per day of prednisone he really seems to be doing well. We have started the calming spray for his crate as well as the oral calmer (he won't eat the oral calmer, he must not like the taste, but I keep trying). He still seems anxious to get out of the crate but we do our best to discourage attention seeking behavior like barking and whining as best we can, although sometimes it's hard! We find that he does best when he is in the same room with us so we have set up a few crate locations around the house to keep him calm. I know it's best not to move him around but he jumps up in his crate and claws and tries to get out if left in another room so this seems like the best compromise for us for now. The vet is adamant about the Friday appointment to continue his treatment and medicines so we have committed to that. We have a vacation scheduled at the beginning of the month so it's very important we get his meds renewed before that, and I don't want to jeopardize them limiting any medicines by not attending the in person appointment. We have an in-home dog sitter that we trust who will be administering his medicines on his schedule and is fully aware of the crate treatment, including physically taking him outside for restroom breaks etc. He seems to be making good progress and we are still very hopeful for a positive outcome.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on May 22, 2017 5:54:40 GMT -7
You can get caster wheels for a wire crate so the crate can be wheeled from room to room. According to your house's layout, that may help so you don't have to keep taking him out of one crate and moving him to another. If Buckeye is jumping up in his crate, it would help to cover the top of the crate with a blanket or towel, bringing it down to his eye level when sitting. That should discourage him from jumping up as he then would not be able to see anything as the blanket/towel would be blocking his vision. Or if he's in a wire crate, you can lower the ceiling by cutting a piece of cardboard the size of the top of the crate, punching holes in the corners and tying the cardboard with string down into the top of the crate, leaving him only enough room to stand up but not jump. During transport to the vet on Friday, be sure to secure his crate in the car and pad it well with blankets and towels to prevent him moving too much as you brake and turn the car. We'll be awaiting word as to what the vet determines at the visit on Friday.
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Post by Julie & Perry on May 22, 2017 5:59:46 GMT -7
Have you tried putting the pill in something like a marshmallow or banana bite? Or something like sardines? When you put it in don't let Buckeye see you do it. The 3 treat method I've heard of is have a yummy treat you give to your dog while holding up the next treat that has the pill. They gobble up the pill treat quickly and have the third non-pill treat. If the pill has a bitter taste make sure after you put it in something you wash your hands before you deal up the treat and give it to Buckeye.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on May 28, 2017 9:53:21 GMT -7
Buckeye had a good checkup on Friday, and they say he has improved a lot. They are keeping all his medicines the same until after we return from vacation, then after that we are doing a 24 hour wash out by not giving him any prednisone for 24 hours, then instead of the prednisone he will start taking an NSAID called Rimadyl, 1/2 pill once per day. That is what we are trying next at least. Depending on how he seems on the Rimadyl I believe will determine the next steps, but the vet mentioned he may be on that daily for a couple of months, then eventually he hopefully he won't need it, or if he does it could be 'as needed'. I plan to continue the Pepcid with the switch to Rimadyl after reading a lot of the posts on here. She said we could give him the pain medicine as dosed now on the first day or two of the switch to let him adjust, then less the next day and then I will call to followup with them at that point to see what to do next.
[19 lbs Prednisone as of 5/9: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days as of 5/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 24 days, taper when back on 6/11 Pain surfaced on taper on 5/18 Tramadol 50 mgs 3x/day Gabapentin 100mgs 2x/day Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 28, 2017 10:00:37 GMT -7
Carolyn, what date will you return from vacation? I hope your readings have you concluding the need to most seriously question the ridicuous idea of a 24 hour washout, a switch from the most powerful steroid, pred, to a lessor anti-inflammatory drug Rimady. AND the risk your vet is proposing with a swtich when there is no emergency. How anti-inflammatory drugs are used with a disc episode: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsweling.htm
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on May 28, 2017 10:45:53 GMT -7
We return from vacation Sunday June 11th. I had questioned 2 different vets at the practice about the absence of a taper and the almost immediate switch to the rimadyl, and they both said that was what to do. I had planned to do more research before the switch, but I will admit I thought likely I would choose to taper him off the prednisone first myself once I am home, before doing any kind of a switch to another medicine just to be on the safest side possible. I haven't done any of the research yet for the rimadyl, since he hasn't been on that medicine before. I only remembered seeing posts about the importance of Pepcid with the rimadyl so I had made a note of that. The vet feels that he might always have some inflammation, and she just had mentioned that long term, being on prednisone would not be a solution for him because of long term side effects, therefore that was why they wanted to get him on the rimadyl. I realize I need to do more reading about all of this before we make any changes, but I appreciate your post as now I am much more on alert about the potential danger of how they suggested we do the switch.
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Post by Pauliana on May 28, 2017 22:59:14 GMT -7
Hi Carolyn,
Prednisone ALWAYS has to be tapered. The taper tells the body it is time to produce its own steroid hormone Cortisol once again.
During the taper if pain returns that means the swelling is not gone and that is when they are put on an additional course of Pred until time to taper again... If no pain returns that means the swelling is gone and no further medications are neccessary. Just the continuation of crate rest for the remaining time..
No one wants to keep their dog on Prednisone any longer than needed due to the side effects.. That's why a taper is commonly called for at the 5-7 day point to check to see if swelling is gone.. It can take some dogs from 7-30 days to get the swelling resolved.
You are very wise to taper the Prednisone once you are back from vacation.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on May 29, 2017 5:20:42 GMT -7
Thank you. I will definitely plan to taper the prednisone. The more I am reading about it, the proposed abrupt stop (especially after 30 days!), the more worried I am with what they proposed. I'm trying to figure out now how to do it correctly with what pills we will have left.
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Marjorie
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Post by Marjorie on May 29, 2017 6:38:55 GMT -7
I'm so sorry to hear that your vets aren't working with you on the taper of the Prednisone, Carolyn. Any tapering really should be done under the direction of a vet. Please keep in mind that the tapering can take weeks and you may not have enough pills to taper off gradually enough. Also until the tapering has been completed with no pain returning and Buckeye is off of all meds, he should remain on crate rest. Once he's off of all meds with no pain returning, then you would have proof that the swelling is gone and he can gradually be reintroduced to movement again once the 8 weeks are finished.
I also don't understand why your vets are telling you that he may need to be on an anti-inflammatory for months more or indefinitely. The only time a long-term low dose anti-inflammatory would be considered is if a taper off of an anti-inflammatory on numerous occasions fails and pain keeps returning. That is not the case with Buckeye at this point. With most dogs, the swelling resolves within 7-30 days and they can be taken off the anti-inflammatory completely.
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on May 29, 2017 16:04:51 GMT -7
Carolyn, can you present and make the case successfully with your vet to start the tqper now before you leave. Since the 2nd course of Pred on 5/19 it will be a 24-day course of pred. That is highly untypical to not try a taper. All anti-inflammatory drugs carry some very adverse side effects. No vet who uses medicines in a safe way would want a dog on pred, if there was no more work for it to do.
The ONLY way you know if pred has resolved all swelling is the test for pain pred taper. IF on the taper there would be pain, then it makes sense to call for another course. Usually those courses are 5-7 day maybe 14 days. I have never seen a 24-day course by any vet!
If there is no pain on the taper then it goes to conclusion and no meds at all are needed. no pred, no NSAIDs.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on Jun 1, 2017 8:26:50 GMT -7
Thank you all so much for the support and information. This has been a constant series of battles with the vet, and it had been very overwhelming as I am learning as I go, and researching as I can, all the while worried and anxious about Buckeye and getting what is apparently a lot of misinformation from the vet.
Just wanted to update, we started his Prednisone taper on Tuesday (May 30). We reduced his ▼pain medicines exactly the same as the last taper. So far, he is doing great with no apparent signs of pain, and this has gone nothing at all like the last time we tried to taper.
So this is currently where we are: Pepcid 1 x per day 30 minutes before Prednisone Prednisone 1 x a day through May 11, then switch to every other day through June 30. Tramadol 2 x a day Gabapentin 1 x a day 24/7 crate rest
[19 lbs Prednisone as of 5/9: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days as of 5/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 11 days as of 5/30 taper: 5mgs 1x/day for 10 days 5mgs every other day for 10 days til Je 20 Pain surfaced on taper on 5/18 Tramadol 50 mgs ▼1x/day Gabapentin 100mgs ▼1x/day Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
We have another appointment in the beginning of July, and I do not plan to give him any Rimadyl whatsoever, certainly not until speaking thoroughly with them at that time to better understand this suggestion.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jun 1, 2017 9:13:04 GMT -7
Good for you Carolyn for advocating so well for Buckeye!! A really good book you can get is called "Speaking for Spot.". Also, I'd be looking for a vet who understands IVDD and can support you. Hang in there. Your doing a great job.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 1, 2017 11:29:02 GMT -7
Glad to hear the pred taper has started... good job on advcocating for it!! When is the next reduction of pain meds? And for how many days is the very other day dose? Do look over the med list below that it is what you are doing for this taper. 19 lbsPrednisone as of 5/9: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days as of 5/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 11 days as of 5/30 taper: 5mgs 1x/day for 10 days 5mgs every other day for ? days Pain surfaced on taper on 5/18Tramadol 50 mgs ▼2x/dayGabapentin 100mgs ▼1x/day Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day
I agree what a wonderful book "Speaking for Spot" is. It deals with many health issues and how to advocate. However if you are to have only one reference book in your home on IVDD it needs to be this very comprehensive book on IVDD for owners: Honey have you squeezed the Dachshund? By Kristin Leydig Bryant and Adam Christmas, DVM, MBA. Jam packed with all the must-have info in a very readable style all IVDD dogs owners will need to refer to. FYI: I have no financial relationship to the book.
Available at: How2Conquer: how2conquer.com/titles/honey-have-you-squeezed-the-dachshund/
Amazon: www.amazon.com/Honey-Have-You-Squeezed-Dachshund/dp/1945783001/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1477078471&sr=1-1&keywords=honey+have+you+squeezed+the+dachshund%3F
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on Jun 1, 2017 16:44:55 GMT -7
Thank you both! I will check out those recommendations. The meds listed are correct, and I am supposed to call back with a progress update when we return to determine the next reduction of pain meds. The 1 x a day every other day of prednisone is currently scheduled through June 30, but I believe that could be subject to change depending on how he is doing when we return and we discuss the pain medicines. Does that seem reasonable?
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 1, 2017 17:44:43 GMT -7
Carolyn, the taper of prednisone is simply to test for pain when used for a disc problem. Prednisone can be used for other many diseases where it IS the right course of treatment to extend a low dose for long term, to drop down to the lowest possible dose at an every other day dose to treat those diseases. Disc disease is NOT those other diseases!
Pred is simply used up at the anti-inflammatory dose (5mgs 2x/day) until the pain is guessed it might be gone. A taper is for two reasons. ~~ The pred taper is a perfect window to see how painful inflammation is being resolved or if not yet, then another course. ~~ There is also a medical necessity to taper ending in a final every other day dose. The body gets the signal to start making its own steroid hormone with that every other day dose. I have NEVER seen an IVDD knowledgeable vet prescribe an every other day dose for 30 days during a test for pain taper.
Because the use of prednisone absolutely requires the supervision of an IVDD knowledgeable vet to give the right taper as signal to the body, is there any way possible at all to get Buckeye in to see a different hopefully more IVDD knowledgeable vet and get the correct taper for him?
The use of prednisone when it is not warranted can be harmful to the body and subjecting the dog to needless potential adverse side effects. When there is a disease that demands 1x/day for 10 days, then one month of every other day taper, then the benefit outweighs the risk.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on Jun 1, 2017 20:31:42 GMT -7
I must have misunderstood them, because I thought the purpose of having him do 1x a day for 10 days, and then every other day for 2 weeks was to get his body back to knowing to produce what he needed on his own rather than stopping all the sudden. That is why I was so worried about them having us stop the prednisone suddenly, and that is why I called again to get the ok for another adjustment. I had read about the possibility of things like Addison's disease, or him not being able to signal to produce the correct hormones to replace the prednisone if he just stopped taking it (which is what they suggested after our last visit, then the switch to rimadyl). They basically said yes we could do it that way (gradually decrease the medicine, 1x per day then to 1x every other day) about 1.5- 2 weeks for each change, and then what they suggested this time didn't seem very different from what they originally had proposed the first time around, before he had pain the first time we tried to reduce. I would love to find an IVDD knowledgeable vet, but as I have called around to many, the closest are more than an hour drive, and they would not help us without seeing him first. I don't want to subject him to an hour plus car ride at this point, it seems like a big risk. We are living out in a rural area and everyone here is general DVM or farm vets.
And I just realized I made a mistake, the end date for the 1x every other day is supposed to be the 20th of June, not the 30th.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on Jun 12, 2017 21:06:28 GMT -7
An update: we are back from vacation and Buckeye is doing well. He is currently on the every other day of prednisone and after a call with the vet, this is what is scheduled: we complete the every other day of prednisone June 20. At that time, we are to reduce his pain medicines to 1 time per day and then followup. If all seems well, he is to not have any prednisone for a week, and then we are to followup once again. At that time, we are to start him on the rimadyl and stop on the pain medicines as long as he is comfortable. I believe this means we can give them if needed during an adjustment period of time where we can monitor his progress on the rimadyl. They do seem more receptive to my suggestions at this time, but are still definitely wanting him to try out the rimadyl, as he still does have some weakness (only very occasionally) in his back legs and we are uncertain if this is due to a low level of inflammation, or related to his nerves trying to heal. The reason they gave for doing the rimadyl is because it acts not only as an inflammation reduction, but also can provide pain relief and would therefore allow him to be on less medicine overall while he continues to heal. (This would mean rimadyl with Pepcid only for him once he is off the prednisone completely). We are still continuing his crate rest, and the only thing we have observed is a slight reduction of appetite from recently (he seemed to be much hungrier when taking more prednisone), but as he has always been a light and picky eater, the vet does not believe this alone is cause for concern. He has another in person vet appointment in early July. Basically at this point I just keep calling them any time I have a concern or question about the medicine or his progress. I'm doing my best to share what I have learned as well as any changes in his behavior. Our dogssitter actually kept very detailed notes of his eating, bathroom habits, and overall demeanor when we were away so that was very helpful. I am hoping for the best on his continued recovery, and we have also been taking steps to make his transition out of the crate easier when the time comes-we have a ramp for going outside, and we lowered our bed to just above floor level, and have steps for our living room couch.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 13, 2017 7:12:11 GMT -7
Carolyn, good to hear that Buckeye had good care by the sitter while you were gone and is doing well.
Your vet has a very peculiar idea of how to treat a disc episode. I say peculiar, because after reading many 1000s of owner reports with their list of meds and how they are used with a successful outcome of treating spinal cord inflammation and not hurting the dog's body, there is no match with how your dog is being treated. On the other hand we have on this forum too many of examples of dogs being subjected to marked in bold red flag inappropriate use of medications putting a dog in danger by vets who are uncomfortable in their knowledge of IVDD. So the ball is in your court to do all you can to protect Buckeye, sort out what makes sense and what does not in suggested treatments.
~ Neither prednisone nor Rimadyl will help nerves heal. ~ Spinal cord inflammation is a painful thing ~ The reason to stop back off pain meds during the pred taper is to get quick confirmation of pain still existing and the need to promptly get pred back on board. If there are no confirming signs of pain on the pred taper, then absolutlely NO medications at all are needed. ~ Giving anti-inflammatory drugs (Pred or Rimadyl) when there is no job for them to do is subjecting Buckeye to all their serious side effects. The safety in use of all meds is a vet who prescribes drugs in a safe manner (that is when there is a known specific reason to use them), blood tests to verify health of organs to be taking when there is a real need for the drugs. The second safety factor is the owner knows about the drugs, their side effects and what to watch for. ~ So if on the pred taper with pain meds stopped there would be signs of pain, then you and the vet would have the answer...pred would need to be back on board, pain meds back on board right now getting back to work on the inflammation. Right now you and the vet have blindfolds on, not knowing if Buckeye needs prompt help with painful spinal cord inflammation.
~~ Some weakness only very occasionally in his back legs could be due to several things -- muscle weakness from the need to not be physically active for 8 weeks. Muscles will bulk up again when it is safe after 8 week to begin a gradual program of increased activity. -- There could be possibly some nerve damage caused by the disc. There are no meds (no Rimadyl, no pred) which can heal nerves. Buckeye's body would be doing that.
Having Buckeye take a NSAID when there is no job to be done by them subjects Buckeye to some potential life threatening adverse side effects. Manufacturers tout how safe their drugs are with use of percentages. But when something happens to your dog believe me it feels like 100%. Keep up the good work of standing up for Buckeye and protecting him.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on Jun 13, 2017 8:23:46 GMT -7
Thank you very much Paula. I am not certain why they are pushing for the rimadyl, but the explanation they gave me made sense at the time-really I think that shows I still have a lot to learn. I guess I want to believe what a doctor is telling me is the best for Buckeyes continued healing, and when they gave me a suggestion of 1 medicine that was milder than what he has been taking (strong steroid and 2 different pain meds) to help with lighter inflammation control as well as pain from healing nerves, it sounded like a good idea. I didn't realize it was so unusual (the example they gave was to a person taking ibuprofen for back pain) or so dangerous. When I next followup with them, I will bring up those concerns and advocate against using the rimadyl.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 13, 2017 8:30:27 GMT -7
Yes, hopefully you will find out no meds at all are needed IF at the completion of the pred taper no pain meds are on board AND there are no signs of pain.
The simple rule of thumb is: Pain = another course of anti-inflammatory + all pain meds back on board. No Pain = no need of any meds...just finish out the 8 weeks of crate rest for the disc to heal.
If pain were to be revealed, it would not make sense to be switching to the other class of less powerful anti-inflammatory drugs, the NSAIDs such as Rimadyl. A switch would require a 5-7 day washout. If there were pain still existing, time matters and 5-7 day washout would not make sense to a dog who needs help right away. This is why the dragging out of the taper is not making sense and the waiting/dragging out to stop pain masking pain meds til the end of the pred taper is not making sense either.
People pop NSAIDs maybe too much not realizing what the New England Journal of Medicine addresses:
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jun 13, 2017 11:43:51 GMT -7
It can be hard to go against what your vet says. But knowledge is power. I know steroid use for IVDD can be controversial for some vets. However, I've tried nsaids in the past and didn't see the results I've seen with steroids. Obviously they're a powerful drug and shouldn't be used any longer than necessary. But my dog is still able to walk today because steroids reduced the swelling so her nerves could heal. Keep reading under IVDD 101 at www.dodgerslist.com. That way you can be Buckeye's best advocate and work together with your vet for the best treatment plan.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on Jun 14, 2017 11:08:09 GMT -7
Thank you both. I called them again and expressed my concerns about not being able to tell his pain level accurately as well as the concern about Rimadyl. Paula, I actually pulled up your message and specifically told them it almost just as how you had told me, and they seemed to understand that I was concerned and why. They said we can stop the Tramadol all the way starting today (he did already have a morning dose), but they do want us to keep him on the Gabapentin at 1 x per day for this week, because they don't want him drastically off so much at once, especially with the reduction of Prednisone we are doing already and with stopping the Tramadol. They also said Gabapentin shouldn't be stopped suddenly (?) so I believe that will go to a tapering type dosage depending on how he does off the Tramadol and off this remaining every other day dosing of Prednisone. I am supposed to call again to followup if I notice any changes. I know this is not officially "off all pain meds", but to me, it seems like it should be enough to accurately assess for pain without causing withdrawal or side effects unintentionally. After our call, I tried researching a bit more online, and I read Gapapentin can cause withdrawal symptoms if stopped suddenly so that did seem like an accurate statement.
[19 lbs Prednisone as of 5/9: 5mgs 2x/day for 5 days as of 5/19: 5mgs 2x/day for 11 days as of 5/30 taper: 5mgs 1x/day for 10 days 5mgs every other day for ? days Pain surfaced on taper on 5/18 Tramadol 50 mgs 2x/day STOPPED 6/14 Gabapentin 100mgs 1x/day Pepcid AC 5mgs 2x/day]
The other good news is I think I stated my case strongly enough to not just jump into doing the Rimadyl, and it looks like for now they are fine with not incorporating that into his treatment. I told them if he shows pain with this change, I'd rather discuss going back to the inflammatory dose of Pred without having to wait through a washout period to incorporate Rimadyl, and they said that I would just need to call them at that time, but we could certainly discuss it then. They did seem receptive to that as an option.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 14, 2017 12:59:08 GMT -7
I am very glad that you will not be starting the Rimadyl at this point. If there is no pain with the taper and cutting back of the pain meds, no anti-inflammatory at all is needed. If there is pain, going back to the full dose of pred seems the best choice
Some vets prefer to cut back the pain meds during the taper and not completely stop, although it will not be as easy to determine if the swelling is gone.
Fingers crossed that the taper will show Buckeye being pain free.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 14, 2017 16:28:06 GMT -7
Carolyn, again must give you kudos for the excellent way you presented information in a way the vet can understand your concerns!
I too have my fingers crossed that no pain will surface and that when gabapentin is backed off you will have even a better idea of existence of pain or not.
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Post by Carolyn & Buckeye on Jun 25, 2017 14:05:21 GMT -7
Just wanted to update: Buckeye is now off all meds (his last day was last Tuesday) and he is doing great. He is still in the crate for now, but he seems to be doing really well and is anxious to get out of the crate! He still has about another week and we are sticking to that, but he seems much back to his normal self, and of course now really wants to get out of the crate. However, I think he has adjusted so much to the routine of the crate treatment that it will be no problem for another week.
For anyone following along and reading this thread, I just want you to know that even if you have a high energy dog like Buckeye, please stick with it if you find yourself in a situation like ours needing crate treatment. He adjusted within the first couple of weeks. If you have a vet that is giving you uncertain information, please do your best to do your own research and work with the vet as best you can, and advocate for your dog. If we can do it, you can too!
Thanks for all the support, Carolyn and Buckeye
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 26, 2017 9:55:44 GMT -7
Carolyn, sweet music to our ears to hear how well Buckeye is doing off all meds. We ADORE you for you tenacity to learn about Buckeye's disease and the courage it takes to bring to the table what you've learned and advocate in a clear manner for the treatments to help Buckeye! You are a super mom! July just around the corner is Dodgerslist IVDD Awareness month. IF you have the inclination join us! Order a packet of business sized cards to hand out whereever you see an IVDD prone breed (waiting in line at the P.O., at the grocery store, in the dentist office, at the beach, etc.) Order our free literature from Linda, the Forum owner here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/litorder.htm Help your vet with our Crate Rest Recovery Process brochure for his medicine bag.
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