Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Apr 26, 2017 15:29:54 GMT -7
[Original Subject line Al's double laminectomy 4/16]
Al (as in "You can call me Al") is a rescue corgi-beagle mix (corgle) we got 3 years ago.
I'm Sheila, his Mom. We live in the US, in Northern CA.
The day before Easter Al started walking strangely - back legs were a bit wobbly. We kept him on crate rest and took him out to pee but by Easter morning he was doing worse- barely moving the legs at all, then nothing - not even a tail wag. Took him to an emergency Vet (who didn't note deep tendon reflexes) who told us to get him to UC Davis ASAP, where an MRI showed a vertebral disc extrusion between his 11th and 12th thoracic vertebrae - and a spinal cord compression over the 13th thoracic vertebrae and 1st lumbar vertebrae. The specialists there *did* note deep tendon reflexes (the emergency Vet had given him some methadone, and he relaxed- and they were pretty obvious). He had surgery immediately by their Neurology surgeons on Easter- 4/16 [surgery]. His best chance.
We took him home late last evening, 4/25. Besides the occasional tail wag (yay! that started his last day at UC Davis) He's eating, he's drinking water, he's pooing normal looking poo- in the crate, where I can pick it up with a glove. His bladder, though - yikes. Doggie bladder expression isn't something I thought I'd ever be doing! This morning I ended up with a dirty robe (in the wash), slippers (in the trash) and floor (mopped) - trying to get him situated correctly (the stream got me, kneeling behind him- not the pad). Luckily, the 100 ct. pee pads I ordered from Amazon (way thicker than what they gave me to go home with) arrived later this morning.
We bought him a new crate and mattress, along with a nice sheepskin for his recovery period (docs said about 4 weeks crate rest). I've also got an inexpensive sling coming tomorrow and a nicer one that rides over his hips, with a longer leash, that should be here in a couple of weeks. Also one of those 3 packs of belly-bands for incontinence, but that- at least for now- is just wishful thinking.
He doesn't seem to have pain. He's actually- from a recovery standpoint, doing well - his incision looks beautiful and they went ahead and took his staples out before we left yesterday, early, because the incision looked so good.
Al is overweight at 30 lbs. No more treats. The only med he's on is prazosin, 0.5 mg. three times a day, to relax his urethra.
[30 lbs prozosin 0.5mgs 3x/day] Doc was hopeful, after the tail wag, he wouldn't need it for long. No wobbly walk yet. Left leg- I swear, he pushed back with it today while I was watching him. It seems to be better (the foot isn't curled, either, like the right is at times) than the right for now.
Big concern - besides- will he ever walk again? - is his bladder. UC Davis wants him to be seen frequently by his Vet these first few days (we have an app't at 4:30 PM) to make sure we're emptying it completely. Bigger concern is also that both my husband and I work so I called in today - and I've been spending most of it trying to find someone who can express him once in the early afternoon for the next couple of weeks, minimum. I can do the other three. Waiting on one person (a Vet tech) to get back to me, and hoping if that doesn't happen I can pay one of the techs at our Vet office to come over at lunchtime (we're less than 5 minutes from the Vet's office, luckily!)
I guess that's about it. Fingers crossed. I was very impressed with UC Davis' small animal clinic/hospital, their docs - and our senior student, who called me every 12 hours with updates. The best, for sure, was "he wagged his tail!". So grateful to this board for giving me lots of courage and confidence with his bladder expression.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 26, 2017 16:02:57 GMT -7
Hi Sheila, welcome to Dodgerslist. Everyone here has a dog with IVDD so you have come to the right place. I am sorry that Al is having a disk episode. I think the hardest part of taking care of our IVDD dogs is dealing with the bladder. Hands-on lessons from the vet is essential. Learning to express takes practice. I struggled with this after my Frankie's surgery. I thought I would never learn and, then after a short while, I was a pro. When we went back to work after Frankie's surgery we were also concerned about expressing him during the day. Prior to Frankie's disk episode I had a dog walker to walk him when we were at work. He was willing to learn to express and he did learn (faster than I had). These are the typical stages of healing 1. Deep Pain Sensation (Only correctly identified by a specialist.) 2. Tail wagging with joy at seeing you, getting a treat or due to your happy talk. 3. Bladder and bowel control proved by passing the "sniff and pee" test. T Take your dog out to an old pee spot in the grass. Let him sniff and then observe for release of urine. 4. Leg movement, and then ability to move up into a standing position, and then wobbly walking. 5. Being able to walk with more steadiness and properly placed paws. 6. Ability to walk unassisted and perhaps even run. Al is now at Stage 2. The next function to typically return is bladder and bowel control so you may not have to express for too long. You can see if you can do anything else to make Al's crate rest more comfortable with some tips we have here. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm Are you now doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty and the surgeon directed PT? …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No chiro (aka VOM). What did your surgeon direct for PT and for post-op crate rest? Dr. Isaacs, DVM, ACVIM (Neurology) addresses Dodgerslist members' questions on surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/surgery.htm It is very scary when our dogs have IVDD. It becomes less so when we learn all we can about the disease. An excellent page to start with is "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htm Healing thoughts for AL
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Apr 26, 2017 17:46:13 GMT -7
Thank you so much!!!!! He's on strict bedrest except for taking him out to express the bladder - and today, we took him over to the Vet (thankfully very close) to check. Bed in the car, tried to keep him calm. Not easy, he got super anxious when he realized where he was going. I was a little bummed, the Vet was able to express quite a bit more than I had only an hour before. Seems I'm not doing it hard enough. The small orange I feel needs to be expressed down to a plum But good news, I got a response from one of the Vet techs who says they'll be able to come to the house for the early afternoon bladder express!! Thanks for the stages of healing. I hope we make it to #3 soon. . .
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Post by Julie & Perry on Apr 26, 2017 18:52:11 GMT -7
Expressing is definitely a learned skill. Sounds like you're halfway there already. I know at first you worry about hurting them. You are doing great. It just takes practice.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 26, 2017 21:38:08 GMT -7
Hi Sheila! Please read our article on expressing, there are lots of tips and suggestions and a couple of videos that may help you get more out of the lesson you have had.. Don't be afraid to go back and have another lesson, that's what many of us had to do..With a little practice, I am sure you will get the hang of it! dodgerslist.com/literature/Expressing.htmWonderful the Vet tech is going to express Al in the afternoons.. Hopefully soon he will get bladder control back... Best wishes and healing prayers!
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Apr 28, 2017 20:03:53 GMT -7
Today we got a new item in the mail- a harness that sits on his hips more than going around his waist (I got one of the ones that went around his waist, inexpensively online, and it really didn't work) . While he's only a couple of weeks since surgery, my husband and I got him into it and brought him out in the back. His favorite trick before this entire episode was always been to find any place that our other dog has peed- and then pee on top of it, and boy- he sure looked like he was trying. . . Hoping for Stage #3!!!
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Apr 29, 2017 4:02:52 GMT -7
Here's hoping for signs of bladder control right along with you, Sheila. A sniff and pee test like you did is the best way to tell if bladder control is returning. Let him sniff at a spot where another dog has peed and see if he can release urine on his own. If so, then bladder control is returning, although you may need to still express after he's gone on his own until you're sure he can empty his bladder completely on his own. Are you finding wet bedding or does he leak on you when you pick him up? Hang in there with the expressing. It took me quite awhile to get the hang of it but practice makes perfect. Has the surgeon given you any physical therapy to do with Al yet? If so, what has he told you to do? Water therapy can be very helpful in getting those legs to move again and some of the exercises can be done right in the bathtub or a small wading pool. Just be sure to check with the surgeon before starting any therapy. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/watertherapy.htmI found these post-op exercises to be very helpful after my Jeremy's surgery. Again, check with the surgeon before starting any of these. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmAcupuncture and/or laser light therapy are also helpful if within your budget. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingacupuncture.htmHealing prayers for Al.
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Apr 29, 2017 18:59:33 GMT -7
I'm going to call the surgeon this coming week and ask about the PT. I've been doing a little bit gently on my own, when I get him out to express his bladder (which is going much better now). I always make sure his feel aren't curled up (as they sometimes are) but are standing flat. No wet bedding but he does seem to leak a bit when we take him out - especially in the AM, but I'm getting much more urine out than I was, hitting multiple spots now without a problem. Took him out after the other dog went again today, he sniffed, stood over it, but no dice (yet, hopefully). Thanks for the healing prayers. Poor guy. We do have a pet rehab facility in town, I've already set up an app't (early June) with them but I need to check on cost. He's always hated water, not sure if that would be the best- but in a kiddie pool, with me in there with him, he may be okay.
Again, thanks- it's so great to have this resource!!
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Apr 30, 2017 19:57:13 GMT -7
This morning was pretty rough - he didn't seem to be bending the legs, when I expressed his bladder his feet just curled under. But- the day got better. We took him out of the crate this evening, after dinner to the yard- just a little while ago with a long towel as a sling and he sniffed and sniffed and - he peed!!!! Small amounts- but then he moved a couple of feet, and did it again. I said to my husband afterwards "You have no idea how happy those little streams of doggie pee made me!" (he still had quite a bit in his bladder when I expressed him - dog, not husband but it seems like a start, for sure). Also, earlier in the day I was moving his toes around and I swear, on his left foot- I sort of pushed in the middle of them all and I felt the toes close around my finger. All in all, and excellent day.
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Post by Pauliana on Apr 30, 2017 20:24:35 GMT -7
Great news Sheila! Proof of bladder control with the sniff and pee test. Be sure to do a quick express check each time he pees to make sure he is empty for a bit longer until you are sure he has that under control. Excellent sign of more nerve healing to come!!!
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on May 2, 2017 18:24:55 GMT -7
It's hot here today- low 90's- and I'm not sure if he's just not been too keen on doing much, but the "sniff and pee" test has only been repeated once, for a very small amount, since Sunday. Seems, though, even when his bladder is no where near full, when I take him out of the crate he expels a little bit (never inside the crate, only when I grab his tummy gently to move him). He's on prazosin 0.5 three times daily from the surgeon, I called my Vet to get it renewed (they only gave me enough for 10 days) . . . but I'm not sure if twice a day would be better, to decrease that initial incontinence when we take him out and maybe help him get better control?
Anyhow- just hard to watch him in this "static" state. He is definitely getting sick of the crate (only halfway through his sentence). Poor pup.
I keep telling myself this is the pup who took weeks to figure out the dog door. . .
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on May 7, 2017 9:39:05 GMT -7
Sheila, sounds like there could possibly be some degree of bladder control since it is your hand pressing on his tummy that is the cause of release of some urine drops, but otherwise no leaking in his suite. A full tummy, your hand pressing to take him out of the crate then the prazosin which decreases his ability to hold urine in all contribute to a little leaking.
You might discuss with your vet about doing a test stop or reduction of Prazosin to see how AJ does. Then observe.. can he then hold his urine while you lift him out of the crate? When you give the sniff and pee test periodically, would you still then be able to do a quick express check if he has released urine? The The Prazosin makes expressing easier for you. With decreased sphincter tone, you don't have to work as hard to build up pressure by squeezing with your hands to overcome the strength of the sphincter muscle.
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on May 7, 2017 12:40:20 GMT -7
Paula- thanks so much. I had decreased (the Prazosin) it down to twice a day, and we're still pretty "static"- he is absolutely fine in his crate, there is never a bit of urine in there. As soon as I get him out, though, he'll go on the pee pad next to it (and then I express the rest). The regular Vet re-ordered the Prazosin, told me I could either use it two times or three times a day, so we've been doing two now. I'll talk to the Vet again this week- I think I may see if we can hold the prazosin starting Friday afternoon and see what happens over the weekend. Maybe a Mother's Day present.
He did defecate outside the other day, with the harness on, which was a first. Back legs seem to have a little strength (not that he's moving them or anything) but when I plant them to express his bladder- he can stay upright for 15 seconds or more at a time now, if I'm right behind him he leans into me a bit and does very well, over a minute. As soon as I press on his tummy his knees give way though.
One more week of house arrest (what we've come to call his crate rest!)
Thanks for this board. It's been so helpful!
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Jul 17, 2017 20:33:46 GMT -7
Three months past Al's surgery- He is going to therapy (water treadmill and laser) weekly. We tried acupuncture, too, but after the woman doing it had all the needles placed, he immediately shook really hard - and the needles went flying- so we decided to maybe wait a bit. He can't walk much on his own, but he tries- 3, 4 steps at a time - and he does occasionally stands long enough to even finish a meal, using the right leg much more than the left. We still use the harness I got from Amazon (we have a couple now) to take him out for short walks multiple times daily. His bladder (did I mention I am an EXPERT at bladder expression now?) is at about 80% function, so long as we take him out to the yard regularly. We've had him tested, and luckily, he has yet to have a UTI.I'm not sure how much function he'll be able to regain. Fingers are crossed that he'll be able to get outside on his own again one day. He's back to his old crazy self, though. Able to slowly get to all the sunny spots in the house that he's loved so well; sitting 4 feet away from anyone who may be cooking in the kitchen, with a sad little "I'm starving" look; sitting at the floor length window, staring out at whatever happens to be outside. The Vet techs at the rehab facility treat him like gold, and he loves heading over there. We're going to give it until the fall, with rehab, etc.- and then maybe decide, if there isn't much more progress, to get him a set of wheels. I'll try and update every so often.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 17, 2017 21:11:12 GMT -7
Sheila, thank you for an update. We always wonder how they are doing.
You have good news to report. Taking footsteps on his own!
Good work on expressing that no UTI has developed. So he can sniff an old pee spot in the grass and the make the decision to mark/release urine? At this point you are still needing to do a quick express check because you are not finding he fully voids each time?
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Jul 17, 2017 21:55:35 GMT -7
Exactly. He's doing like he always used to do, before the surgery- walking around in the harness, now, though- and doing a little here, a little there - and sometimes (though much rarer than, say, 6 weeks ago!) there's still quite a bit left. He has so many cheerleaders, between home, work, and the neighborhood. His weight is now a perfect 24 lbs., and we'll see how he does! Latest buy is a set of 36 of those interlocking 12" foam interlocking tiles to create a better walkway outside and over to the grass, where (hopefully) he'll be able to manage on his own. . .
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 18, 2017 7:46:48 GMT -7
Sheila, nice idea you have shared with those interlocking tiles for better traction. Please keep us posted how Al progresses..he really is going in a good direction of nerve healing. Hope to hear on one of your posts that you are finding he can fully void on his own. However, we do know that male does always reserve some urine perchance they might find just one more spot to mark!
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Jan 7, 2018 13:59:59 GMT -7
Al's surgery was back on 4/16/17 - Easter Sunday, no less, when neurosurgeons at UC Davis Small Animal Division operated on two of his disks (in a way, we were lucky with that- none of the Vets in the area were available to do the surgery because of the holiday, so it probably cost us half the price of a local Vet doing it!) After a couple of months of crate rest, he began weekly rehab - walking in the water treadmill and laser treatments. He kept shaking the acupuncture needles out so we gave up on that. Rehab went on for 4 months, with him still mostly dragging his back end in the house (we had placed yoga matting all through the halls and into rooms). The first week of November we bought him a K9 Cart. I had been a bit torn with that, thought he'd rely on the wheels instead of trying to strengthen his leg muscles, but I was so wrong! It's been slow, but steady since. Al is now walking in the house about 70% of the time. We take him out for walks in the cart (and he loves to hit all his old favorite places to urinate - which was another of his problems!) and he'll play in the yard with our other dog. Once inside, he's gotten pretty good, a sloppy walk/run that he's even managing to do off of the yoga mats, on flooring and tiles. I'll try to add a pic later
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 7, 2018 20:13:44 GMT -7
Al sounds like he's doing wonderfully!! Isn't it great to see them get back to normal? Congratulations 😀
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 8, 2018 8:39:08 GMT -7
Sheila, thank you for sharing about Al and a photo for our Gallery below. Nerve healing can be a slow thing where we need patience to let the body do its thing. Al is great inspiration to those owners just starting the IVDD journey!
PHOTO GALLERY LOGIN /gallery/thumbnails.php?album=5 username: Dachsie password: dodgerslist14
Or you can email (owner's name, email addy, dog's name + photo caption) to : photogallery@dodgerslist.com
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Sheila & Al
New Member
MALE -corgi-beagle mix
Posts: 13
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Post by Sheila & Al on Sept 14, 2019 22:10:58 GMT -7
Almost 2 1/2 years later, and Al is back!
He loves walks (regular leash, just shorter now) and fighting with his sister (though we don't let it get too out of hand- no jumping). We gave away the K9 cart about 4 months after he started using it, and pulled up all the yoga mats and foam tiles about 2 months after that. He maneuvers well, no slipping on the tile (which covers most of the main rooms in the house) at all. It's not exactly a straight walk (both back legs tend to bend a little) but it works fine, and when he sees a squirrel outside the run he breaks into is pretty indistinguishable from the old Al.
His bladder control came back 100%. He'll go out, bend the back legs together (his male dog one-legged pee just wouldn't work, he'd fall over) and squats a bit like our female dog. He's never been able to defecate normally though- he *quickly* (like he has no idea it's about to happen) sits on one hip and will even now still have the occasional accident in the house. Walks early AM and evening, after his 2 small meals each day are usually enough but - not always. Not a biggie though. With tile all over the house the clean up is quick, and we have a little clean-up kit always at the ready. I feel like we've been super lucky with him - from the excellent care he got at Davis, to finding this incredibly helpful board, to the kindness of everyone who helped us with him. Dogs are the best!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Sept 15, 2019 5:11:52 GMT -7
Wow, what a wonderful update, Sheila! Al is doing amazing and hearing that delights our hearts! I know that those going through similar experiences will find your update very encouraging indeed. Thank you for sharing this update and please do continue to keep in touch. Blessings to you both.
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