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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 22, 2016 2:58:29 GMT -7
Hi Everybody,
I'm still trying to come to terms with everything, so if I forget anything I apologise. I've not slept much in the last few days.
My dog, Jade, woke up on Fri 11th Nov 2016 and took herself downstairs (she had been sleeping on her cushion at the foot of our bed), I followed shortly after and let her (and her sister Jasmine) out for a wee. As she stepped from the kitchen to the yard I noticed her legs buckled under her but she recovered and carried on. I though this was just stiffness due told age so didn't feel immediately concerned. However, she did the same again stepping back into the kitchen. I took her outside on her lead and walked her along our drive and again, the step up from the yard to the drive her legs gave and as I turned her round to go back they gave again. At this point I picked her up and carried her back into the house and onto our sofa. This was 08:30 in the morning.
I called our vets and they had an appointment at 09:30 so I took her in my car. By the time we got to the surgery she had lost the use of her back legs entirely. The vet (who we had never seen there before) mentioned it could be a spinal cord problem or possibly a blood clot mimicking a spinal cord problem and from the tone of the conversation I got the feeling he thought there was no point in trying anything too expensive as she is nearly 14 years old. He gave her an NSAID injection and asked us to bring her back the next day. The next day there was no improvement with her legs and the (different) vet we saw suggested it could be a herniated disc and that because of her age we should perhaps try conservative treatment. She was then given an antacid shot (because she'd had the NSAID the previous day) and then a steroid shot. We were told to go back Monday.
Monday morning my husband and myself took Jade back to the original vet we saw on the Friday and the whole tone of the conversation was to have her PTS. We said we weren't going to give up on her so easily so he said we should give it a couple more days and come back and see yet another vet on the Weds! In the end we went back Monday eve and insisted she go for an MRI. Tuesday am we had a phone call from a referral centre 35 miles away asking if we could get her in that afternoon.
We took her in and she was seen by a neuro specialist who after checking her DPS and telling us she seemed worse on one side than the other said she thought the problem was most likey an FCE but that the MRI would confirm. They didn't want to do the MRI that day as she had eaten so she was kept in overnight for the scan on Wednesday. After the MRI was done we had a phone call to say that it wasn't an FCE but that she had herniated a disc and that there was bruising of the spinal cord just above the herniation, this reduced her prognosis with surgery from 75% to 70% but that she also had a disc further down that was starting to bulge too so there was the likelihood it could happen again. We decided to risk the surgery (we were now 5 days from symptom onset).
Jade came home on Saturday (3 days post-op). We were given physio to do and Meds for her and all seemed ok except that she didn't want to urinate all day. Eventually she went at half-past midnight Sunday morning when I took her outside - phew!
Relief was short-lived however as she started vomiting on Sunday morning. She still had a hearty appetite (we were feeding dessertspoonfuls of boiled chicken and rice) but within a couple of hours she would vomit it back up. She was still drinking. We were't sure if it was her meds or if it was because she hadn't had a poo since she came back. By Monday morning she was completely off her food and seemed to have lost her 'spark'.
Back to the (regular) vets yesterday eve and he said it was hardly surprising after all she'd been through that she was feeling so down. He took her temperature which was normal so didn't suspect any infection and felt her tummy and said she didn't feel impacted. He gave her an anti-emetic (Cerenia) and another gastric protective shot (Zantac) and told us to keep trying her with bland foods little and often.
This morning she wet the bed (I think it may be my fault because she looked so peaceful sleeping when I checked on her this morning that I didn't take her out to potty). She's still drinking but still off her food, she's turned her nose up at boiled chicken and scrambled egg (things she would never normally refuse). I've given her her meds and she's settled down for the moment.
I thought we did the right thing when we got her home, but seeing her like this right now I'm worried we've made things worse. It's just heartbreaking to see her like this and I'm exhausted from lack of sleep, I don't know if I can carry on and she's only been home 2 days.....
A few things you've asked for:
Location: UK
Me: Karen
Dog: Jade
Breed: Staffy x Jack Russell
Age: 14
Weight: 19.9kg [44.78 lb]
MRI diagnosis: Severe intervertebral disc protrusion at T13/L1 on the right side with spinal cord oedema/gliosis at T9-T13
Meds: Gabapentin 100mg (2capsules/3xday for 14 days)
Omeprazole 20mg (1capsule/2xday for 14days)
Eating: not for last 24 hours
Drinking: yes
Walking: no
Wagging tail: no, but lifts it to urinate and curls it when stroked
Leg movement: sometimes, especially is she's stretching
Urinating: normally waits until we carry her outside, and if she needs to go will lift her tail and do it herself (but she wet the bed this morning)
Pooping: nothing yet but vet said yesterday she didn't feel impacted and she isn't eating anything to go process currently
Many thanks for reading this,
Karenx
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 22, 2016 6:16:28 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Karen. I'm so very glad that you didn't listen to any of the talk about putting your beloved Jade to sleep. First thing to know is that it IS in the cards for your dog to get back to enjoying life whether immediately walking after surgery or waiting on more nerve repair - IVDD is not a death sentence. Find out why that is true: www.dodgerslist.com/index/SDUNCANquality.htm I do hope the Omeprazole helps her feel better soon. Look forward to learning more about your dog with your answers to these questions: ▷ Is the surgeon a general practice DVM or a specialist (ACVIM neurology or ACVS ortho)? ▷ Are you now doing 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out to potty and for surgeon directed PT? …. No laps, no couch, no sleeping in bed with you, no meandering, scooting or dragging around during potty times. No chiro (aka VOM)? What did your surgeon direct for PT and for number of weeks for post-op crate rest? ▷ Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant to move much or slow to move, can't get comfortable, tight tense tummy? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. Alert your vet about pain! Studies have shown a correlation between less pain and faster recovery from surgery. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16542131If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. www.ahvma.org/find-a-holistic-veterinarian/Why Chiropractic is not recommended for IVDD dogs: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/chiropractic.htmPumpkin can help firm up stools OR it can help to loosen stools. The amount of water in the diet makes all the difference. To loosen the stool, add equal parts water to each kibble meal along with a teaspoon of plain canned pureed pumpkin 1x a day. To firm up the stool, add 1 teaspoon pumpkin to kibble and no extra water 1x a day. Note alternatives for constipation: really ripe mashed fresh pear, just take off the peel; microwaved and mashed peeled sweet potato. With this disease self-education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The goal of our Forum is to support you, to teach you how to look up things at the original source point (a credible and authoritative resource), question everything and read so you become the most important part of your dog's health care team. Good place to start your self-education: www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmI know how distressing this all can be. You've done the correct thing. Jade has come through surgery and now just needs time to heal. Stay strong and stay positive. We're here for you and Jade and will help you through this. Healing prayers for Jade. Try to get some rest. |
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 22, 2016 7:05:14 GMT -7
▷ The vets we took her too initially and who are seeing her now for the vomiting/anorexia are general practice, but the vet at the referral centre who did the surgery is a neurology specialist.
▷ She is on crate rest except for potty and PT, no chiro. There was no mention of number of weeks but myself and my husband expect it to be at least 8 weeks. We go back to the referral centre in 3 weeks so can ask them then. PT is massage to warm her up then PRoM with some stretching, and sitting to standing with a sling (we use a towel) for support. She's finding the sitting upright difficult right now because she's not eating so we're just continuing with the PRoM and stretches.
▷ No signs that you have mentioned. She is happy to be picked up for potty and PT and settles quickly when put back down. She's sleeping most of the time with the gabapentin. I do worry though that with her size I don't find it easy to pick her up as easily as a small dog and that I may do her more harm than good but she doesn't let me know because she can't feel anything.
This is my biggest worry - will I make it worse when I pick her up? My husband finds it easier but he works away from home and although he's working from home as much as he can it isn't always possible so I'm on my own quite a lot of the time.
I'm also worried that she may have a UTI which is why she's vomiting and off her food. She doesn't leak in her crate but when she does go outside it [urine] is very stinky and strong, considering the amount of water she is drinking.
With the cost of the MRI and surgery coming to nearly £6000 (our insurance gives us £4000/month) and we also have to pay 20% towards the cost due to her age, we cannot afford this at the moment.
Unfortunately I looked for canned pumpkin and whilst you can get it from specialist stores it only seems to be at certain times of year and it is exceedingly expensive. Everywhere I've found it is out of stock, so thank you for the alternatives - once we get her eating again we will give it a try.
Thank you x
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 22, 2016 7:32:00 GMT -7
This is the correct way to lift an IVDD dog. If you can't lift her with her spine horizontal, then don't try to lift her. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/liftcarry.jpg ![]()
Is the surgeon allowing you to sling walk her outside to potty? She'll no longer be allowed to walk up or down steps/stairs so you'll need a ramp over any steps. Using a sling (long winter scarf, ace bandage, belt) will save your back and help to keep a wobbly dog's back aligned and butt from tipping over. Jade should be able to walk with her front legs with you supporting her hind end with a sling. A harness and 6 foot leash is to control speed and keep footsteps to minimum as you stand in one spot. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/slingwalk.jpg
If she's not pee pad trained, try this. Lay down a pee pad right outside the door of the crate WITH the addition of urine from another dog or from Jade on top. Always save a used piece of pee pad in a ziplock bag to use at potty time. Jade can learn it is ok with you to pee on the pee pad, be sure to use the command go potty and when she does give lavish praise.
There are also rear end lift harnesses available, such as Help 'em Up. You should check with your surgeon as to when you would be able to start using something like this. helpemup.com/
You should definitely try to get a urine sample that you can take in to your vet ASAP to have it tested for a UTI. That may be the reason she leaked in the crate, too.
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 22, 2016 12:08:43 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie and thanks for your quick replies.
She was originally being sling walked out to potty but since yesterday she's stopped trying and now just stands still whilst you hold her back half up which is why I'm having to pick her up. I'm doing my very best to keep her spine horizontal and do hold her against myself whilst I'm carrying her. I hope once she is feeling better that she will sling walk again (as the physio recommended).
Jade is still not eating but is drinking plenty of water. I'm going to boil some chicken later and try her on the broth - if she takes it it's better than nothing.
We have an appointment at our regular (general practice) vets tomorrow evening. I've been texting him with updates on her eating/drinking and mentioned the odour and dark colour of her urine and asked if it could be a UTI, he said possibly yes and has asked us to take a sample in with us when we see him.
I'm thankful that she's taking her meds and not being too stubborn and spitting them out. One thing she's always been good at is taking tablets, but capsules are a new experience for her so she's doing remarkably well. We've found that trying to hide them in food wasn't working, it's actually better if we put them straight in her mouth and let her swallow on her own with a good drink of water afterwards to wash it down.
She's sleeping more than usual today but we're putting it down to the combination of gabapentin and the lack of food. I know I'd be feeling mighty rotten too if I'd gone through everything she has in the last week. I'm hoping she'll be less restless tonight which means we can all get a good nights' sleep - but obviously I'd rather it wasn't at the expense of her feeling so poorly.
Throughout all of this, Jades' litter sister, Jasmine, has been wonderfully understanding. If you look at my avatar picture, Jade is the one at the back and Jasmine at the front. Despite being together every day since the day they were born (last week when Jade was in the referral centre for 3 nights was the first time they'd ever spent a night apart) they have totally different personalities. Jasmine has always been giddy, and has a pink, fluffy, sparkly personality whilst Jade is your moody, goth, deep purple velvet kind of girl. I just want to pick her up and give her the biggest cuddle right now - it's so frustrating that I can't even do that right now. Jasmine is getting double rations of them for the time being!
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 22, 2016 14:33:34 GMT -7
A UTI would make Jade feel very uncomfortable and possibly reluctant to sling walk.
After my Frankie's surgery, I could not lift him at all as he is over 60 lbs. I used a harness similar to the Help 'em Up to move him. Having a pee pad right outside the crate, as Marjorie suggested, is a really good idea since you will only have to move her a very short distance. Moving our larger dogs right after surgery can be very hard on us and the less we need to do it the better.
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 22, 2016 14:57:06 GMT -7
I've just googled the Help'em up harness and they look really useful.
Can you leave it on during the day or would you recommend putting it on/taking it off as needed?
We're keeping Jade on her side (is that prone? I'm not sure!) and turn her over when she goes to the toilet - would you lift her manually upright first and get her front feet on the floor before taking the weight? I can't imagine just grasping the handles and picking her up!
Sorry if these are really stupid questions but you never think you'll need these things do you? I'd rather ask stupid questions than get the wrong thing or the right thing and use it incorrectly.
On a good point, she managed 4 teaspoons of warm chicken broth from a bowl this evening. I wanted to give her more but as the anti-emetic she was given yesterday only lasts 24 hours I don't want to overdo it in case she vomits in the night. I think she's a bit wary of anything solid because she associates it with being sick. She certainly enjoyed it though, it's the most excited she's got about food/water since Sunday morning.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 22, 2016 15:18:21 GMT -7
I took it off when we weren't using it. I was afraid it would irritate his skin. It was a little tricky to get on when he was lying down but I managed.
I used the handle to lift him up so his front feet could bear some of his weight. Of course, trying to keep everything level. The first few times you do this it seems strange, but it becomes routine quickly.
Very good news about the chicken broth. That should her her get some of her energy back.
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 23, 2016 2:46:02 GMT -7
Well, Jade didn't vomit overnight, even though the anti-emetic would have worn off. Nor did she wet the bed.
When I checked on her at 2am she was exactly as I left her at 10pm so I went back to bed to try and get some sleep. I set alarms to wake me up but I find it really difficult to actually get to sleep in the first place, I'm lying there listening for anything coming from downstairs. When I got up again before my alarm went off at 6am I found she must have sat herself up on her front legs and then turned herself around on her bottom. She was lay with her legs scrunched underneath her and her head (complete with big padded blue cone) resting against the pen. She looked like a very big, sad, blue flower.
She still has an incredible thirst and will happily drink water when it's put in front of her so after a drink, I took her to the toilet where she had a wee (still strong and foul smelling) and got her back on her bed on her side. Gave her omeprazole and another little drink of water before massages and PT. This morning she turned her nose up at the chicken broth. It's so sad, she is literally wasting away and you can feel all her shoulders and hips when you pick her up or massage her.
I gave her her gabapentin about an hour after the omeprazole and she has been sleeping soundly since. My husband is driving home this afternoon so we can take her (and a urine sample) to the vets this evening. Please keep everything crossed for her, we know there's still something in there, we're now starting to wonder if she's feeling a little depressed as well.
If we can get her to start eating again I think she will turn a corner pretty quickly.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Nov 23, 2016 3:04:32 GMT -7
Poor baby. I hope she feels better soon. Have you tried feeding her by hand and special things like eggs or meat food? It will get better, hold on!!
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 25, 2016 4:50:44 GMT -7
A little update:
We took Jade to the vet on Weds evening, but he was running late so our poor baby ended up waiting in the car for nearly an hour. We took a urine sample with us and he performed a dipstick test on it which showed protein (evidence of an inflammatory process) and blood (not visible to the naked eye) in it so he gave her an antibiotic (Betamox La [Amoxicillin Trihydrate]) injection and a vitamin B12 injection to try and stimulate her appetite. We were also given some cans of high-calorie, high-carbohydrate food which is almost like baby food in consistency and were told we could rub into her gums if she wouldn't eat it.
Before we put her back in the car we stood her up to see if she wanted a wee. Instead, she started to push and out popped a poop! The 1st one since she's been home and we don't know whether she had one when she was at the referral centre. It was very firm and a bit stringy - the sort she usually has if she eats grass which she hasn't for over a week so we think it's been in there for a while. Me and daddy were ecstatic and ran back into the vets to tell everyone! Hopefully she feels a bit emptier and has some room for food now.
When we got her home we gave her a drink and she was promptly sick. We hoped it was just because of the last hour-or-so of waiting in the car and being prodded and poked about. She was also overdue her gabapentin by now so we gave her that and let her sleep it all off.
Thursday morning we tried her on the babyfood. We thought a teaspoon at a time since she hadn't eaten for a few days and we didn't want to overdo it. We warmed it up in a bowl by putting it in another bowl of warm water, and amazingly she took it!! She won't eat it from the bowl but will happily take it from our fingers, talk about being pampered. At this point we wanted to get the whole can into her but we stuck with a teaspoon every hour and by evening she had almost finished the 1st can.
Friday morning now and she seems much more alert, she keeps lifting her head when we walk into the room and her eyes follow us everywhere. She's just had 2 teaspoons of food and is sleeping like a baby. Her urine is also much less smelly and less dark, but we're giving her more to drink before and after her food. There's also a little bit more movement coming from her back legs when she stretches, something we haven't seen for a couple of days so we're all feeling much more positive.
We're going to buy her the help'em up harness this weekend and hope to start her back in the sitting to standing exercises when she's got a bit more energy. My husbands' back has almost gone (he suffers from the human equivalent of ivdd and has had his TENS machine on almost permanently this last week) and I have problems with my right knee so we're hoping it will be beneficial and make life easier for all of us.
If she hadn't started to eat she would have gone back to the vets today for blood tests but instead we have to pick up some antibiotic tablets to carry on treating the UTI at home.
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Marjorie
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Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
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Post by Marjorie on Nov 25, 2016 6:08:29 GMT -7
Wonderful to hear that Jade is feeling better and is eating, Karen. The week after surgery can be so very hard. Try to take it one day at a time - it will get better. Please let us know the name and dosage of the oral antibiotic when you get it so we have a complete med list. Stay strong and stay positive!  |
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 25, 2016 12:22:04 GMT -7
Okay, we have another update for you....
Since Jade has started eating again, albeit a very tiny amount, we have found that she is bringing up bile again. She was on Omeprazole (20mg 2xday) so we were giving it to her every 12hours. She seems to be being poorly within the 6hour mark post-admin so we wondered if it just wasn't enough or strong a dose for her. We called the vet today who told us to bring her in (we were due to go in and collect some oral antibiotics for her anyhow) and he would give her another Zantac injection and also some oral Zantac tablets.
So now Jade is on:
Gabapentin (100mg) - 2 capsules, 3xday (due to finish this 7th Dec)
Zitac (Cimetidine) (200mg) - 1 capsule, 3xday (this is to replace the omeprazole)
Kesium (Amoxicillin trihydrate + Clavulanic acid) (250mg) - 1 tablet, 2xday (oral antibiotic for UTI)
Husband says she has eaten since she was sick this afternoon whilst I am at work and that she has kept it down. Fingers crossed that the Zitac works better because we really need to start feeding her more (portion-wise and often).
We also ordered the Help'EmUp harness which is due to arrive tomorrow afternoon.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Nov 25, 2016 14:30:28 GMT -7
Good news that Jade has been able to keep food down.
I think you will find that the harness will save your back and make it easier to handle and move a 44 lb dog.
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 28, 2016 7:55:42 GMT -7
Sorry it's been a few days, but we seem to be on a bit of a rollercoaster right now. It seems like we take one step forward and 2 steps back!
On Saturday 26th, Jade seemed to have a bit of her appetite back so we were feeding her teaspoons of Hills a/d prescription diet every hour, all was going okay until around 2pm when she vomited bile for the 1st time in 24 hours. I had not long since given her her zitac tablet which was an absolute battle, I had to throw 3 away because she kept spitting them out and they were going all mushy. I hope it was the stress of this that caused her to vomit.
Monday 28th: Jade has now gone 48hours without vomiting, and she is eating slightly larger, but less frequent meals of wet food. She literally has become a bag of bones so we're desperate to get her eating and keeping it down. However, our new problem is she has stopped urinating. This is worrying because it was the one thing she still had control over since this started 2 weeks ago. She is currently being treated with
Kesium [as of 11/25 amoxicillin-clavulanic acid] for a UTI so we don't know what's causing it.
She is also leaking throughout the day and night onto her pee pads and towels in her crate. We take her out every hour and you can feel her pushing but there's nothing coming out! Except perhaps a few dribbles into her fur because her bottom feels wet when you pick her up afterwards. I'm currently using baby wipes but will get some plain green teabags this evening to use as a wash for her. We're back at the vets tomorrow am to see what's going on and if we need to to get a hands-on lesson in expressing her.
She doesn't seem to be at all bothered by any of this, but I'm really starting to feel exhausted. I'm now in a loop of 'what next?' thinking. Thank you for being here with all your encouragement and support, it really helps when my husband is away and I'm on my own looking after her. Hopefully the next update will be better news. xx
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PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 28, 2016 10:04:01 GMT -7
Good news is vomiting has subsided and she is able to eat and hold food down.
Just throwing this out to discuss with your vet whether Amoxicillin might be the right match for the bacteria in the bladder. If it is the correct antibiotic, it should clear up bacteria within the first 48 hours... meaning a relief from symptoms of leaking, feeling need to urine quite often, foul odor etc.
Vets use the broad spectrum antibiotics and this shot gun approach often will target the existing bacteria. If the guess is wrong, the bacteria continue to breed because they've not been killed. A urine culture is different than a screening test (urinalysis with a dip stick). The culture takes several days to actually grow the bacteria in order to know the precise bacteria and Rx the correct antibiotic.
Which kind of vet are you seeing now about this? The surgeon or your local DVM vet? Let us know what the vet says, if there is bladder control or the need to express. What about poop control? Can she wait and poop outdoors or do poops plop out in the recovery suite?
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 28, 2016 14:45:23 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
I'll mention the possibility of the antibiotic being a bit too broad spectrum - within a couple of days of her taking it her urine did become less smelly and less frequent but she never had a problem with leakage at all, this is the first time we've experienced it. That's what's so frustrating, she didn't have it before the treatment?? I was surprised he didn't send the urine sample for a more detailed analysis whilst treating her with the amoxicillin in the meantime, but when the treatment seemed to be working we soon forgot about it. If it does need more detailed analysis then it's more time wasted- aaarrrggghhh!!
Pooping hasn't happened since last Wednesday, but then she hasn't had much going through other than very sloppy prescription food - when she's managed to keep it down that is. Now we seem to be winning on that score I'm going to try some microwaved sweet potato to add a bit more fibre. Her appetite has returned with a vengeance, and our main problem now is trying to stop her gulping it down too quickly. When she did poop it was very controlled and not in her crate - no surprises for anyone there!
The vet who's treating her is just our local DVM vet, but Jade is due to go back to the referral centre next week for a 3 week follow-up.
I'll report back after we've seen the vet in the morning.
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 30, 2016 10:00:15 GMT -7
We took Jade to our [general DVM] vets yesterday mornning and he gave her a thorough check over. He said that her bladder didn't feel distended (possibly due to the constant leaking) so he wasn't as worried as he thought he was going to be. He gave us suggestions on how to help her pee and told us to bring her back on Thursday am and mentioned the possibility of a catheter if there was still no change. He thinks it might be a lack of muscle tone - in all honesty we have been negecting the physio - mainly because of the state she's been in with the vomiting and not eating - so we made decided that a much more concerted effort was needed on our part and have resolved to be more conscientious about it from now on.
The vet also performed the DPS test on her and boy, did she not like it! She gave a really good kick when he did it, a much more pronounced reaction than before the surgery so we're really positive about that.
We got her home at about 09:30 and immediately started her physio (sitting to standing and PRoM), then we took her outside to see if she would pee. One of the things the vet suggested was to try wiping her 'girlie bits' with a warm, wet cloth to simulate the mothers' licking of her pups to induce urination. Unfortunately it didn't work this time so we took her back in and put her on her pee pad.
About half an hour later the pee pad was absolutely soaked, more than we had seen from the dribbling, so we took Jade outside again and tried wiping her bits - this time it worked!! Up went the tail and out came the biggest stream of pee we'd seen, I bet Jade was sooooo relieved....
That was about 11am. By 10pm she hadn't gone again despite being taken outside several times with a combination of warm, wet cloth and 'sniff-and-pee'. However, he pee pad had stayed dry so she no longer seemed to be leaking. It wasn't until 11pm when my husband carried her down to the end of the garden (over our pond - not easy when it's frosty) that she finally went again.
It's now 5pm Weds (so about 18 hours later) and she still hasn't been. Her pad is still dry, so no leaking, and we're giving her plenty of water. So our relief has been short-lived. Yes, she still has bladder control but with gaps of 12+ hours in-between we're still worried about her.
We're keeping up with the physio and she's back at the vets in the morning....
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PaulaM
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Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Nov 30, 2016 13:20:40 GMT -7
Karen, when you write about a vet, could you give his credentials. Is the vet a general DVM vet OR a specialist, a Neuro surgeon?
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Post by Karen & Jade on Nov 30, 2016 14:19:57 GMT -7
Sorry Paula, I thought I'd said in an earlier post that the vet she was seeing yesterday was a general DVM.Generally speaking, if I say 'vets' than it's the DVM but if I say 'referral centre' it will be the neurosurgeon but I will try to be more specific in future! I'm at work at the moment but about an hour ago hubby took Jade for a sling walk down the drive, at the end of which is a large ivy bush that many of the local doggies use to wee in - it worked - apparently Jade could have been mistaken for a horse judging from the amount that came out. We've been giving it some thought and in their nearly 14 years, neither Jasmine or Jade have ever been to the toilet on a lead (in fact, they're very rarely on leads at all) so it's an absolutely alien experience for her to have somebody holding on to her when she wants to go. We think there is a large psychological element to it so she's teaching us what we need to do, and if it gets her to go, then by golly we'll do it! They say you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but it seems an old dog can teach her even older owners a thing or two  |
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 1, 2016 10:09:30 GMT -7
Karen, well it sounds like you have cracked the case of Jake's reluctance to pee! Should be smooth sailing now at potty time.
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Post by Karen & Jade on Dec 1, 2016 13:35:48 GMT -7
We certainly have, she's been out a few times today and every time performed like a trooper! It it also made us think again that when we used to take her for a quick walk before work to empty her out, a few yards further down (around a corner and where it's a bit more grassy) is where she would always stop for a poop. So we let her carry on a bit more and as soon as she got round the corner she put the brakes on and promptly squatted and out came the longest poop we've ever seen  she must be a so relieved. It's tired her out a bit too and she's much more settled. We were told by the physio that we could sling walk her for potty breaks but no more than 5 mins each time so she's not doing anything against the advice we've been given. We know she had bowel and bladder control and we'd rather she did it herself than express her unnecessarily. As soon as she's finished she comes back indoors to her crate. Tomorrow we go back to see the neurosurgeon for a check-up and we hope she'll be pleased with the progress she's made. It's probably going to be less than she expects but I think given all the setbacks we've had with the vomiting, not eating, not urinating and not pooping that she will understand why. Personally, we're over the moon with her and hope she's turned a corner. Onwards and upwards...... Edited to add: The neurosurgeon who performed her surgery is Alexandra Ferreira at Chestergates Veterinary Specialists, just outside Chester in the North West of England. |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Dec 1, 2016 13:44:50 GMT -7
Good news that Jade is now peeing and pooping on her own. That is a big step forward.
I think she has made good progress. It has been less than three weeks since the surgery and she has bowel and bladder control. Lots of healing will still take place.
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PaulaM
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 2, 2016 9:49:09 GMT -7
Karen, would you consider helping another trying to make decisions… We have a directory where you can share surgical info at this link: dodgerslist.boards.net/board/10/guidelines-posting State: Hospital: Address: Cost: Date of surgery: What was included in cost (MRI?, days stay, ER? PT? meds for home, sling, etc.) Comments: Let us know what the surgeon says with your visit today. |
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Post by Karen & Jade on Dec 2, 2016 12:03:32 GMT -7
Well, we saw the neurosurgeon today and ended up staying for an hour and a half! Still, it made the 70-mile round trip worth it. She says that she isn't showing signs of any neuropathic pain after feeling and pinching up and down her spine over where the surgery was and thinks she doesn't need any more gabapentin (although our regular DVM has scripted it just in case we need some). There is a little bit of tightening of the muscles in the rear leg on her right hand side (this is her weaker side) so she managed to get us in to see the rehabilitation nurse who has given us plenty more excercises to do with her. They say though that she does have plenty of and very good muscle tone everywhere except in the right hind quarter but that it will come back with use. The neurosurgeon was also pleased that she had good reflexes and pain sensation and although she doesn't have proprioception yet it should come back with time. She told us she certainly has the ability in her to walk again from a neurological point of view, but that we need to make her put the effort in before she becomes too lazy - hence the unscheduled visit from the rehab nurse. Jade managed a poop and a pee whilst we were there which we all agreed was a positive sign and we go back on Monday evening for more physio and to try her on the water treadmill (only for a few minutes to see how she gets on). I'm quite excited to see how this goes, Jade loves being in the water but they've said that it's a bit too soon for full-on hydrotherapy at the moment. I think once she gets the hang of it though she'll not want to get off! After nearly an hour of standy-up-sitty-down, stretching, turning sideways for treats, walking with a harness (to slow her down) and sling, and peeing and pooping, she slept peacefully in the car all the way home. We all came away feeling much more hopeful for her x Edited to add: I've had to split my working day today to accommodate the trip to the referral centre, so 14 hours after I started work I came home and was greeted by the biggest 'happy talk' wagging tail!! The first one in 3 weeks. Now she's started she can't stop - I'm soooo happy |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Dec 2, 2016 14:23:31 GMT -7
It is a wonderful thing to see that first tail wag. Jade is on her way!
The underwater treadmill helped my Frankie a lot. That kind of therapy is usually started after the crate rest period.
Jade will regain her muscle tone when crate rest is over and she starts moving around more.
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Post by Karen & Jade on Dec 6, 2016 23:53:39 GMT -7
It seems treatment here in the UK is a little different from the US.
Jade had her first go on the water treadmill on Monday (we're just shy of 3 weeks post-surgery) but she was a real superstar. She didn't freak out when the water came in and not even when the floor started to move. She was being given a bit of help to begin with from the rehabilitation nurse to get the legs going but very soon she started to make a walking motion with her back left leg. She wasn't putting weight on it but the motion was there all by itself. Her right leg, which is the weaker, would do the same every now and again. The water was almost up to her her chin (but still below the surgery scar) so there was no weight-bearing at all and the treadmill was going incredibly slowly. I think it was more a case of getting her moving because she'd been so ill recently and this was the gentlest way to do it.
She was only in there for about 10 minutes with the treadmill going a couple of times for about 2 minutes. We have also got to do more bottom-lifts and stretches with her at home and walk her on grass for 5 minutes a day using a harness to keep her front end more upright and to stop her pulling, with the sling supporting her back end. When we do this we have been told to let her paws drag lightly on the grass to help stimulate her feet. Every now and again we get what they call a 'bunny-hop' which is a good sign apparently. This is also when she does her poop (every day now for a week - yaay!!).
Another thing we have told might be good is to get an old electric toothbrush and use it on her pads for no more than 30 seconds but to stop if it makes her uncomfotable. I think the purpose of all this is to get the nerves firing again and speed up their plasticity and regeneration.
Since we've started doing all of this she has really come on both physically and mentally. Not only is she more alert but the tail wagging is now a daily occurence and the muscle tone in her legs (the left one especially) is much better. We're seeing much more movement in both hind legs and feet, particularly when she's stretching, and she's almost able to get herself up from a sitting to standing position on her own (with just a little help from us). We're confident the walking will come with time.
She has 3 more water treadmill sessions before New Year and we hope to remember to video the next one!
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 7, 2016 10:19:52 GMT -7
Karen what a wonderful report. There really is something about the underwater treadmill moving floor and buoyancy of water that allows a dog to move where with on land and gravity they can't move their legs. Super good report to hear...keep the updates coming!
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Post by Karen & Jade on Dec 12, 2016 12:02:09 GMT -7
Just a quick update on Jade since she didn't have any vet/surgeon/physio appointments last week:
She is eating well and has gained back a lot of the weight she lost in her first week after surgery. She is taking no medications at all and our DVM asked us to take a urine sample in at the end of last week just to check she hadn't got another UTI - the results came back all clear.
Yesterday, when we took her out on the grass (when we drag her paws) every now and again there was a definite attempt at a walking motion with both legs. It wasn't constant, but she would do it for a few seconds then relax her legs but then maybe 20 or 30 seconds later she would do it again. She has her poop during these sessions.
She still knuckles, but when her feet are placed flat on the floor she will hold herself up (we do this when she's feeding) and we make sure she isn't leaning forwards and putting all her weight on the front! She has also started moving her feet, almost like she's shifting weight or position but we think at the moment it's coming more from her hips than her feet themselves.
When she has a wee or a poop she squats herself down and we take the weight off the sling and she pushes herself back up again, the sling comes back into play when she tries to walk off but the back legs don't follow (yet).
Her next underwater treadmill session is on Saturday, but as I'm working a friend is going with my husband to keep Jade company in the back of the car - and he has strict instructions to video her on the treadmill too!!
All positive news to report, hopefully I'll have a video to attach to the next one...
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 12, 2016 12:10:31 GMT -7
Karen, some very, very exciting observation on nerves healing. No doubt at all that in time, Jade will be able to take walks with you again. Keep the patience that it may take for more nerve healing... it will come. Look forward to seeing the video too!
For how many weeks did the surgeon want for crate rest plus the PT he has directed? Some surgeons want 4 or 6 weeks while other longer before gradually letting them out of the recovery suite to join in family activity. We like to track the post op crate rest time in the subject line to know when graduation day has arrived.
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she must be a so relieved. It's tired her out a bit too and she's much more settled.