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Post by Sam & Diesel on Jul 20, 2014 1:19:22 GMT -7
Diesel is a Staffordshire bull terrier and weighs 22kg. He had a cruciate ligament operation in 2012 and since then he has seemed a bit unsure on his back legs, we put this down to him recovering from his op. However, on a visit to the hydro therapist about 7 months ago he thought he had a problem in his back. We spoke to the vet who confirmed this was the case and changed his medication from Metacam to Trocoxcil to see if it helped.
On the 16th June 2014 Diesel went into kennels whilst we went on holiday to Turkey. We received a call on Friday 20th June to say that Diesel had lost the use of his back legs and was in pain. Obviously this was so upsetting as we were so far away, but Brian at the kennels was amazing and took Diesel to our vet hospital. He had an MRI scan on the Sunday and was operated on on the Monday. We were told that he had deep pain sensation and that he was not incontinent prior to the operation so the prognosis was good.
We fetched Diesel home on Monday 30th June and he has been on crate rest ever since. He now wags his tail, which he didn't for the first week of being at home, and will bend his legs during our massage and physio sessions. However, is showing no signs of being able to walk, albeit he will stand if we place his legs in the correct position, but he wobbles quite a bit. We saw the vet last week for a check up and he was slightly disappointed that at three weeks post op Diesel was not showing any signs of attempting to walk. This obviously worried us, but the vet followed up this comment by saying that Diesel's spinal cord had been been under quite a substantial amount of pressure from the ruptured disc and it will take time to recover.
It will be four weeks tomorrow since his op and I am now having thoughts that he will never walk again, particularly because his legs are still straight and stiff until we manipulate them and also because of the continued knuckling. Diesel is starting hydrotherapy on Thursday which we are hoping may start to help.
It is heartbreaking to see him like this, however I think he is coping better that I am!
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 20, 2014 5:12:17 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist, Sam. Yes, dogs do cope better with this than we do - far better! Were you given a diagnosis of IVDD? With this disease self education is critical not just so you make sure the right things are being done for the best recovery but for your own emotions. The unknown is simply a scary place. Get ready to fight this disease now and in the future by knowing all things IVDD. There is no better place to start than on our main web page with "Overview: the essentials" and then read all you can as soon as possible. Here's the link www.dodgerslist.com/healingindex.htmCan you give us some detail about your dog? 1. Is there still currently pain - shivering, trembling, yelping when picked up or moved, reluctant/slow to move head or body, tight hard tummy? 2. What are the exact names of meds currently given, their doses in mgs and frequencies? 3. Do you find wet bedding or leaks on you when lifted up? 4. Eating and drinking OK? 5. Poops OK - normal color no dark or bright red blood? 6. What directives did the surgeon give for crate rest and for PT? Dogs with IVDD must be carried with their spines horizontal, carrying both ends. There's a video on this webpage showing how to properly lift and carry: If there is pain or neuro diminishment, dogs can benefit greatly with acupuncture or laser light therapy. These therapies can be started right away to help relieve pain and to also to kick start energy production in nerve cells to sprout. So if this therapy is in your budget, seek out a holistic vet. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingacupuncture.htmHydrotherapy is great, too, so glad to see you're trying that. Here's our page on massage and exercises if you want to run any of them by the surgeon - I found them to be invaluable and did them 3 times a day with my Jeremy - think these did more than anything else to get those legs moving! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmNerves can take a very long time to heal, months, even a year or more. Four weeks, though it seems long to you, is not a long time in nerve healing. You've already seen some improvement, such as now wagging tail and bending legs. It can take 2-4 weeks for the swelling to resolve so often improvements are not seen until then. Don't give up! It took my Jeremy weeks after his surgery before there was any movement at all in his feet and 6 months before he was walking. I was told by the surgeon that I wouldn't see any more improvement three months after the surgery and Jeremy wasn't walking and could hardly move his legs. But I continued to see improvement well after a year following surgery. My Jeremy's legs were straight and stiff, too. Prayers for a full recovery for Diesel. Please keep us updated. We're here for the two of you! |
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Post by Sam & Diesel on Jul 20, 2014 6:36:49 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie, thank you for your reply.
We have not had a definite diagnosis of IVDD for Diesel, but originally when my vet looked at him he said his back pain was in his lower back, however the disc that ruptured was in the middle of his back.
the only medication he is on is
Trocoxcil, One 30mg tablet once a month, he has been on this for about three months.
He is not trembling or shaking or showing any signs of being in pain. He is eating fine and going to the toilet ok, albeit not as frequent as he used to and as i write this post he has not had a poo for over 24 hours so I am keeping my eye on this.
We were told to crate rest him for 6-8 weeks and give him physio three times a day. This consists of warming up his muscles on both hind legs, pinching and tickling his toes, stretching and bending his legs and sitting and standing exercises whilst being supported. We have also been given some magnets for his back to encourage the blood flow.
Thank you so much for the links, I will have a look at these. It is reassuring to know that I am not on my own with how I am feeling and that having read a lot of positive posts it gives me hope.
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 20, 2014 10:44:11 GMT -7
Sam, it is important to speak with the surgeon to verify this is intervertebral disc disease as being the cause of the disc tear. Breeds prone to being born with disc disease are the short legged small breeds. The gene that causes the legs to be dwarfed also cause the discs to prematurely age. Usually it is not til the dog is typically 3-7 years old that the vet and the owner first find out with signs of pain that the dog was born with IVDD. Some dogs have only one disc episode while others may have several during their lifetime. IVDD is a disease that can be lived with by being aware of the signs, getting prompt vet help and encouraging back friendly activities after treatment of conservative or surgery. As Marjorie pointed out self education is how we put ourselves in a good position to protect our dogs. If your dog does have IVDD, then you will want to learn all you can. All things IVDD: www.dodgerslist.com/literature.htmOne area to learn about is medications, what adverse side effects to watch for and what meds are contra-indicated. Trocoxcil® (mavacoxib) is one you will definitely want to learn more about. It is a NSAID for the European market and not available in the USA. NSAIDs such as metacam should not be switched to another brand NSAID such as Trocoxcil without a 4-7 days washout. And if there a need for a different class of anti-inflammatory, steroid, Trocoxcil presents a real problem as this is a timed release med that stays in the system for over 30 days and would require more than 30 days washout. If you were to see any adverse signs (liver problems, nausea, bleeding ulcers, life threatening perforated stomach lining there is nothing you can do right away even though you stop it as Trocoxcil lasts for 30 some days!! There is no specific antidote for mavacoxib overdosage, but general supportive therapy, as applied to clinical overdosage with NSAID’s, should be given. www.noahcompendium.co.uk/Pfizer_Limited/Trocoxil_chewable_tablets_for_dogs/-50802.html What is the benefit of Trocoxcil other than a convenience benefit for the owner to not have to deal with a daily dose compared to some of the other canine NSAIDs is the moral question I would have for myself and my vet. You may find this little card to carry with you at vet visits helps to keep all the meds straight as you discuss things with the vet. D/l here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/MedCard.pdf  All these potent meds carry with them side effects. Once the benefit of the med has been achieved, then continued use of them merely subjects the dog to all the adverse effects. Post op pain usually subsides in 2 weeks. Diesel is on Trocoxcil, so how will you know when he has no more surgical caused pain? It is quite likely all the post op painful surgical swelling is indeed now gone. He likely does not need ANY medication. Until Diesel can get Trocoxcil fully out of his system by stopping this med, he really needs his GI tract protected. Awareness of the serious side effects to monitor for are listed in this Food and Drug Administration (FDA) resource: www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/ResourcesforYou/AnimalHealthLiteracy/ucm196295.htm
The FDA and manufacturer pkg insert indicate gastrointestinal problems are side effects of using NSAIDs. The natural defenses of the stomach to shield against stomach acid is hindered when taking NSAIDs. Serious gastrointestinal toxicity such as bleeding, ulceration, and perforation, can occur at any time, with or without warning symptoms. Phrase the question to your vet this particular way:" Is there a medical/health reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC (famotidine)?" If there is no reason, we follow vets who are proactive in stomach protection by giving doxies (famotidine) 2x day. Pepcid AC, only a available via prescription in the UK, is generally considered a suppressor of stomach acid production for a healthy dog and good insurance. Dogs don't speak up at first signs of trouble like a person would. By the time we notice black or red blood in the stools, things can quickly go from bleeding ulcers to a life threatening perforated stomach. We ask that all members read about each med their dog is on or may take as a safety measure. This directory very good for learning about each of your dog's meds: www.marvistavet.com/html/pharmacy_center.htm |
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Post by Sam & Diesel on Jul 23, 2014 13:02:58 GMT -7
Thank you for your very detailed reply Paula. We are seeing the surgeon who operated on Diesel next week and will be asking the question regarding the diagnosis of IVDD. The surgeon has said that Diesel does not need to be on any medication at all for his back, but like you quite rightly said Trocoxcil stays in the system for 30 days.
Our own vet put Diesel on Trocoxcil after his cruciate ligament operation as he suffered quite considerably with his recovery and thought he would improve better on this rather than the metacam. We were told all about Trocoxcil at the time, the side effects, the implications of any future medications, the need for Diesel to be tested every three months, but we agreed with our vet to try it for a while to help Diesel cope with his cruciate and certainly not for our own convenience.
Unfortunately, despite the surgeon knowing Diesel was on Trocoxcil, he prescribed Rimadyl straight after the disc surgery and it was myself that pointed out this should not have been prescribed and he immediately removed these tablets.
We are also having a meeting with our vet next week to discuss Diesel's future medication and indeed if he should now be on anything at all.
At present Diesel is still not able to walk, but is standing for a bit longer albeit still very wobbly. I am still very worried that Diesel will not be able to walk again, but I know it is still quite early after his op.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 24, 2014 9:13:24 GMT -7
Sam, delighted to hear you already were fully informed about Trocoxcil and due to your knowledge you could discuss your concern about using another NSAID while Trocoxcil was still in his system!! Way to go.
Is the hydrotherapy swimming or underwater treadmill? How did the session go?
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Post by Sam & Diesel on Jul 24, 2014 14:32:27 GMT -7
Paula, Diesel had his first session in the pool today and he did really well. I was not present as my husband took him but he said he actually swam with all four legs. The physio was really pleased with him and has booked him in for two sessions next week x
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 25, 2014 8:20:47 GMT -7
Hi Sam's wife! Delightful info...water bouyancy makes it possible for legs to move more easily than gravity out of the water does.
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Post by Sam & Diesel on Aug 6, 2014 13:57:35 GMT -7
Diesel went to see the Mike the surgeon last Friday 1st august, nearly six weeks after surgery. Mike was concerned that Diesel was showing no signs of using his back legs and recommended a further MRI scan. This was completed later in the afternoon and it showed that the top of Diesel's spinal cord, where the disc had ruptured, was badly damaged and the fibres had died. Mike stated that this should not prevent Diesel from walking in the future, but it was going to be a much slower recovery and lots of hard work was required during physio sessions by both ourselves and Diesel. The aim is to teach the signals from Diesel's brain to find a different route around the damaged part of the cord to get to his legs.
Yesterday Diesel had his first session on a treadmill with Mel the physio behind him working moving his back legs for him. This proved much harder than anyone thought it would be as Diesel was very reluctant to move forward on the treadmill.
Has anyone got any exercises we can do with Diesel to try and get him to bend his legs when standing, currently they are completely still like poles, or to help us encourage him to take a step with his leg. We are doing all the basic exercises i.e. Sit to stand, standing with our support, trying to move his legs forward one at a time whilst standing.
We feel we are at a cross roads with Diesel and feel this is make or break for him, so any advice or new ideas would be most grateful.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Aug 15, 2014 8:41:56 GMT -7
Sam the ability to purposefully bend his legs at the knee joint is all about the nerves having regenerated enough to allow the brain to send a message down the spinal cord. Same with taking steps, until his brain can successfully send messages to the legs they will not be able to take steps.
Now if Diesel has the ability to move his legs but is just not strong enough to do so, that is where the water therapy is most excellent. Takes little effort to move in the water than deal with all the gravity on land. On July 24 your report was he was moving all four legs in the water. Maybe a little carrot dangled in front of him will encourage him to be more accustomed to the underwater treadmill?
Until then if you mean Diesel's knee joint does not easily bend with your gently trying... then here is what I do. My dog is paralyzed and can't bend his knee for me to do the necessary squats. So I just gently push on the back of the knee and that releases the lock so that we can do the leg bends, squats, etc.
Be reminded there is no make or break for Diesel. Mother nature and time will tell how much nerve healing can take place. This regrowing of nerves can take more like a year out from injury for some dogs.
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