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Post by Areti & Max on Dec 3, 2019 12:59:39 GMT -7
Max started showing signs of neck pain on November 4, 2019. He had had neck issues a couple of times in the last year but I thought they were muscles he pulled from scratching and they always got better with some heat within a day or 2.
This time his condition worsened and he started exhibiting intermittent lameness in his right front leg.
On November 6th, I took him to the ER Vet, who offered a diagnosis of IVDD - Intervertebral Disc Disease. Max has either a herniated or ruptured disc in his neck causing his extreme pain.
Over the course of several days and visits to different ER and standard vets, Max was prescribed pain meds, NSAIDs, and a muscle relaxer. The only medicine that seemed to help with his severe pain was the anti-inflammatory (Novox/Rimadyl/Carpofren) but within 24 hrs, Max was vomiting and had bloody diarrhea. The vet said that because of his Cushing's disease (a hormonal condition he was diagnosed with in 2017) the NSAID may have caused a gastrointestinal issue. We stopped administering the anti-inflammatory and Max was treated for GI problems with Metronidazole, Sucralfate, and probiotics.
His primary vet referred him to a neurologist, and the neuro vet agreed that all of his symptoms point to cervical (neck) IVDD.
After seeing him in such intense pain I was ready to have him get the spinal surgery. I read about the general success rates for IVDD surgery done early.
Unfortunately Max's blood platelet count was low for surgery, which we thought was due to the bloody diarrhea, so we waited a week to retest his blood and to my shock his blood platelet count almost hadn't changed. His cholesterol levels were also low which hadnt changed either.
Vet wanted to put him on a trial of doxycycline, even though he tested negative in a 4dx test, for a tick disease just to rule it out. We also did an ultrasound on his abdomen to see if there was any GI bleeding from the NSAID. They didnt find any signs of ulcer but did see some nodules on his spleen. Vet mentioned trying to get samples from them but also noted the risk of bleeding with his low platelet count. I decided to wait.
During this time, I have been keeping him contained at home.
His signs of pain were the hunched/arched back with the head hanging low. I could see his front right paw was weak when he was sitting up as it would start to fold over before he would straighten it for support.
He would sit up for 30 mins or more with his head low, because he couldn't figure out how to lay down without hurting himself. When the pain is very intense, his breathing gets faster and he takes rapid, shallow breaths.
Initially I was carrying him outside to relieve himself but picking him up risks putting him in a lot of pain. He would cry out in pain often so I decided to let him walk himself outside. My house is ADA compliant so there are no steps, just ramps. He can relieve himself on his own, he just walks very slowly in that hunched position when he's in extreme pain and doesnt lift his leg.
During week 3, (after the 2nd blood test) I started to notice some signs of progress. His bouts of pain were less severe and eventually he could feel quite well (not 100%) after 2 or 3 hours of rest.
Once he starts to feel better he wants to scratch. I think his Cushings has caused these scaly flaky spots on his skin. I apply coconut oil and neosporin to keep them moisturized and not too itchy to keep him from scratching. I'm by his side almost 24/7. I just quit my job!
Unfortunately after 4-5 days of "progress" he regressed and was back in a lot of pain that resting wouldn't help with. Nothing drastic happened - he didnt fall or jump or run. All I had noticed was that he was sitting up randomly from a laying down position and I could tell he was in discomfort. Which led to extreme pain like he had been in during weeks 1 and 2.
He weighs 7.5 lbs. Currently he is on Tramadol 25mg every 8 hrs. Gabapentin (powder from capsule) 50ish mg every 8 hrs. Methocarbomol 125mg every 8 hours, prilosec 5mg twice a day (initially prescribed by vet to be taken 30 mins before Novox once a day but neurologist asked me to keep giving it to him and increasing dose to twice a day). Also hi Vetoryl for Cushings 10mg once a day.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 7.5 lbs date STRICT crate rest started? Novox (carprofen) as of what 11/7 Stopped 11/10ish?? resumed as of date?: ? mgs 1x/day for how many days? methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day tramadol 25mgs 3x/day gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day Vetoryl adrenosuppressant drug for Cushings Prilosec 5mgs 2x/day]
When he is in a lot of pain, he isn't willing to eat so I cant give him his meds on schedule. He has an appetite. He always has. I can tell he wants to eat but it hurts to open his mouth or something.
These have been an extremely difficult 4 weeks for us. It seems like an eternity for my baby Max to be in such intense pain. Im currently waiting on the results of the 3rd blood test after trying the doxycycline, but if the platelets are still low, I'll be referred to internal medicine for diagnosis, as spinal surgery is not an option right now.
I dont know what issue this could be with his platetels. He had a blood test 9 months ago before a dental cleaning and was perfectly fine.
Also, when I first spoke with the neurologist, she told me that dogs with Cushing's have a higher risk of post-operative complications, which I hadnt heard before. When he was initially diagnosed, his only symptom was the hair loss and maybe the pot belly, but the vet never told me that it could create other complications. Now I'm reading that dogs with Cushings typically only live 2-3 yrs after diagnosis, but no one says anything about what they die from??
IF we are able to treat whatever issue is causing the platelet issue, and IF he does not make progress with his IVDD with conservative treatment, I'm seriously concerned that surgery might be too risky for him. Also wondering if his Cushings is complicating his healing process since I read that it affects the immune system. Though his ACTH is normal now so it seems like it's under control so I'm not sure how it could still be causing issues.
I've been reading about IVDD on many websites but I believe Max's case to be complicated because of this platelet issue that remains to be diagnosed as well as his Cushing's. I will note that before the IVDD he was a perfectly healthy dog. We even did an echocardiogram because his heart looked enlarged on an xray and the cardiologist said his heart function was quite good for an 11 yr old Yorkie. Turns out he may have had some fatty build up around the heart, which they sometimes see in Cushinoid dogs.
Max was adopted from the SPCA so his breed/age is not certain, but the SPCA rescued him from a backyard breeder so he may be purebred.
I really lost a lot of hope after he started to show signs of progress and then suddenly got worse. In the meantime there's nothing I can do besides keep him rested. I've considered trying laser therapy but the process of transporting him really kills me. Taking him to the vet for these blood tests puts too much strain on him and he cries out in pain a lot.
Any advice or success stories from other cervical IVDD cases are appreciated. Thank you!
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Post by Dorthia & Puppy on Dec 3, 2019 14:02:05 GMT -7
I don’t have advice, but Stella could not walk over the summer, but she is up walking, and has returned to her normal life. Stay strong , time is usually your friend during an episode. Mainly keep him from moving around and keep him in a small area confined. One of the forums many vets will be commenting soon with the best information you can find. Relapses happen, it happened to us. Don’t lose hope, and try to take it in stride. It’s hard when our babies hurt.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Dec 3, 2019 14:41:56 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. We are so glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you! It is important to know that disc disease is not a death sentence! Struggling with quality of life questions for your dog? Re-think things:
What is your name? I am Romy
Surgery is not the only treatment for IVDD. Conservative treatment can also be effective. The most important thing you can do for Max right now is to start Very Strict crate rest. The hallmark component of conservative treatment is the very STRICT crate rest part (no PT, little movement). With little blood supply discs are much slower to form good scar tissue than it takes a blood rich broken bone to heal. Those weeks of a cast for a broken arm to heal is similar to the recovery suite being a kind of cast for the disc. 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 for 8 weeks provides limited movement to allow good strong scar tissue to form. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmSTRICT means:
◼︎no laps
◼︎no couches
◼︎no baths
◼︎no sleeping with you
◼︎no dragging or meandering at potty times.
◼︎no PT for conservative dogs during 8 weeks to heal disc
◼︎At home laser or acupuncture for severe neuro damage is best. Transports are always a risk to the disc of too much movement. Vet visits must be weighed risk vs. benefit for dogs with little to mild neuro diminishment.
It is dangerous for Max to walk himself to potty even if there are no steps. You can try a pee pad right outside the crate to avoid as much movement as possible.
Is Max currently taking Novox or was it stopped because of the GI problems? An anti-inflammatory is taken during an IVDD episode to reduce the swelling in the spinal cord that causes the pain and neuro deficits. Unfortunately all anti-inflammatories cause excess stomach acid which can cause damage to the GI tract and subsequent vomiting and bloody diarrhea. To prevent this damage dogs on anti-inflammatories should be taking a stomach protector to help prevent this damage. Prilosec is an effective medicine but it takes a while to become fully efffective. It can take Prilosec 3-5 days to be at peak efficiency. It may be that with two stomach protectors, Max will be able to take an anti-inflammatory. Prilosec is an effective acid suppressor and Sucralfate works as a sort of bandage for damaged tissue. Max is currently on both of those meds. I know that Cushing disease complicates Max's treatment but you can ask the vet for his opinion on this.
Max is in pain. Pain will only slow the healing process. It is hard to tell if his pain meds need to be adjusted or not being able to administer the pain meds on a schedule is causing it. It is easier to prevent pain than to stop it once it has begun. A lot of our members have had success with the three treat method; Prepare three treats, one will have the pill inside. Give the first plain treat with #2 pill treat in view. The idea is a greedy gulp to get the next. With #2 in the mouth have #3 plain treat in view.
Most dogs like sweet banana. The pill will stick inside a little ball. If need be wrap with a thin piece of deli meat to make even more yummy.
The small size marshmallows also make a good pill pocket as the stickiness keeps the pill from falling out. This may work if Max has pain when chewing since the marshmallows are small.
Here is a video on different ways to give medicine:
Pain when opening the mouth and chewing is sometimes seen in dogs with cervical IVDD. If you feed Max kibble, soak it in water to soften it. Raise food and water bowls to head height to avoid bending down to eat and drink. Here are some tips for a neck disc:
Knowledge is the power to fight the IVDD enemy and win!! The very best thing you can do for YOU, the caregiver, and for your dog is to get up to speed on IVDD soonest possible. Begin absorbing the must-have overall sense of meds, care and how the treatment works. Your dog will be depending on your ability to learn - excellent video series here: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/theater.htm PRINT OUT this link and tape to your fridge: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingpage.htm --use the printout as your roadmap to avoid dangerous detours in your dog’s care --make notes/highlight to keep yourself on track --follow all the links in the next days to become the IVDD savvy pet parent your dog needs.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 3, 2019 18:26:35 GMT -7
Areti, if you would fill in the missing med list info, we'd be in best position to offer helpful comment 7.5 lbs date STRICT crate rest started? was it only just today 12/3? Novox (carprofen) initially as of what date? Stopped what date? resumed as of date?: ? mgs 1x/day for how many days? then stop test if pain resolved methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day tramadol 25mgs 3x/day gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day Vetoryl adrenosuppressant drug for Cushings Prilosec 5mgs 2x/day
IF, if still seeing signs of pain, then discuss with the neuro about use of one more drug called Amandadine. Read up on it so you are able to best advocate for its use to provide round the clock dose to dose full comfort from pain. Amantadine is something we are seeing neuros Rx as part of the pain med cocktail as it allows other analgesics to function more effectively . The Mar Vista vets explain the mysteries of amantadine here www.marvistavet.com/amantadine.pml Basically when stressed as our dogs are with a disc episode they may be more susceptible to physical pain. Muscle spasms hurt worse, everything hurts more. Amantadine alone is not an effective analgesic but when combined with the other IVDD pain relievers (methocarbamol for muscle spasms, gabapentin for nerve pain and tramadol as the general analgesic), it adds an extra dimension of pain relief. At this time veterinary experience with Amantadine is rather limited but it seems to be emerging as helpful addition to pain relief regimens for our IVDD dogs. As always be fully knowledgeable about each med by reading the link provided above. Please also tell us what the pain signs currently as of today you see, if any:◻︎ shivering-trembling ◻︎ yelping when picked up or moved ◻︎ slow to move ◻︎ tight tense tummy ◻︎ arched back, ears pinned back ◻︎ head held high or nose to the ground. ◻︎ restless, can't find a comfortable position ◻︎ slow or reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions ◻︎ looks up with just eyes and does not move head and neck easily. ◻︎ not eating due to painful chewing or in too much overall pain ◻︎ holds front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ◻︎ not their normal perky selves Tell us modifications you have made currently as of today to keep potty time to only a very, very few footsteps, no walking to and from potty place. --- put down a pee pad adjacent to the recovery suite. Salt it with piece of paper towel with some old urine from Max or another dog. This will help Max to know it is ok by you for him to pee in the house on the pee pad. --- If you are not able to carry him to and from the potty place, then clearly his meds are not yet right. You can't care properly for a dog who is in pain. Let us know what the vet does to adjust his pain meds. Likely adjustments in mgs for gabapentin and tramadol 3x/day can be made.
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Post by Areti & Max on Dec 5, 2019 23:03:32 GMT -7
Hello everyone, Thank you for your quick responses. To answer the questions: Novox (with prilosec/omeprazole) was started on Nov 7th and stopped within a couple of days. I dont remember the dose. After I took him to the ER for the bloody diarrhea, that vet told me she tries her hardest never to give NSAIDs to a dog with Cushing's. Max is not currently on any NSAID.Strict confinement/rest began on November 11th. Pain signs: I have seen him trembling a few times in the last few days. I gently pet him to calm him down which helps. Definitely cries out when being moved (I dont do this anymore) and oftentimes on his own too, when switching positions. Today I tried to wipe him very gently as I always do after he pees, and he cried out in pain and collapsed on his front legs. I tried to hold him up and he cried out more and seemed to want to bite me. he got up fairly quickly and went back to his area [??] where he struggled to sit for a while. This is new and I think a progression of his pain/neurological issues, which is worrying. He's slow moving, walks with his back arched and head low. Takes a long time to sit and then to lay down and then hardly moves once he's laying down. Even as he's laying I dont think he's comfortable. He has his nose pressed into the ground because he cant tilt his head or lay on his side. I've noticed his eyes are red and I think it's because he's exhausted but not sleeping. I also see spasms in his neck/shoulder area. He tries to avoid using his head and neck to look around. There are times ( when he's in a lot of pain) when he wont eat, which is why I struggle to give him meds on time. Originally he was holding his front right paw up only but I have recently seen him hold up the left one as well. Max didnt use the puppy pads I put in the. bathroom. I eventually took him outside because I didnt want him to hold it for too long, but I kept it very short. He hadn't had a bowel movement in 3 days because of the pain I believe and he finally went. He isn't comfortable going indoors but I'll keep trying that first before taking him outside. Vet said I can do the ▲ pain meds every 6 hours instead of 8. I was able to do 2 doses on time today. Will see if he's in the mood in 2 more hours. I'm going to pick up an Rx for ✙Amantadine tomorrow. [Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 7.5 lbs date STRICT crate rest started? Novox (carprofen) as of 11/7: for 2 days Stopped 11/10ish?? methocarbamol 125mgs ▲4x/day tramadol 25mgs ▲4x/day gabapentin 50mgs ▲4x/day ✙Amantadine ? mgs ?x/day Vetoryl adrenosuppressant drug for Cushings Prilosec 5mgs 2x/day] Him falling on his front legs during a pain rpisode today really scared me. I'm worried about any permanent damage and progression of neurological deficits so I've scheduled him for surgery (he's been cleared for surgery as his platelet count was increased) next Thursday (Neuro is out until next Wednesday). Of course, surgery worries me as well. Mostly because of his Cushing's. The Neurologist says Cushionoid dogs can have difficulty healing and are more prone to infection so Max would be prescribed antibiotics.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 6, 2019 6:23:42 GMT -7
Any worsening of neuro function that you're seeing (collapsing on his front legs) may well be due to too much movement of the spine being allowed. Too much movement of the spine can cause the damaged disc to tear more, causing more pain and possibly more nerve damage. Getting Max's pain completely under control is key to caring for him conservatively. Once his pain is under control, you'll be able to lift and carry him out to potty with only a few steps allowed at potty time. If the vet can get Max's pain under control, then he could continue with conservative care. Hopefully with the addition of Amantadine ASAP this morning and giving the pain meds every 6 hours will get Max's pain completely under control today. Pain should be completely under control within one hour of giving the new course of meds and should remain completely under control from one does of pain meds to the next. If pain is not completely under control within one hour of giving the new meds, then you'll need to alert your vet again. Possibly he can prescribe a Fentanyl patch. Max cannot be allowed to continue in pain until the surgery on Thursday. Please speak to the vet about giving Max Turmeric as a natural anti-inflammatory. It's really important to get the swelling that's pressing on the nerves of the spine down as quickly as possible as that's what causes the pain and damages the nerves. A bit of black pepper should be given with Turmeric to help with its absorption. Not wanting to put weight on a leg could be a sign of nerve root signature pain. Something is irritating the nerve root as it exits the spinal cord to travel down the leg. Severe leg pain is one of the main symptoms. Here's some info to read as a background for discussion with your vet. www.dodgerslist.com/neurocorner2/rootsignature.htmDr. Bagley. Lateral and Foraminal Disk Extrusion in Dogs [Root Signature Pain] www.scribd.com/doc/23748101/CANINE-Lateral-and-Foraminal-Disk-Extrusion-in-Dogs or tinyurl.com/76ypu4o You mentioned that after he peed and was in such horrible pain, he "went back to his area". Do you have Max in a recovery suite to limit his movement? His recovery suite should only be large enough for him to stand up, turn around and lie down with his legs comfortably extended. Hopefully his pain will be brought under control today and then he may want to move around more so he needs to be confined. Tips on setting up a recovery suite if Max is not in one already: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htmAny pee pad should be placed right outside his recovery suite. You can add some dirt with Max's pee or another dog's pee on the pee pad to encourage Max to use the pad. Prayers that Max's pain will be brought completely under control so he can rest and heal in comfort.
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Post by Areti & Max on Dec 10, 2019 12:13:44 GMT -7
Hi everyone,
Max was getting worse over the weekend. He was very weak in both front paws and was falling on them every time he relieved himself. Yesterday he was having difficult walking and fell on his front legs twice.
I got in contact with an orthopedic surgeon who has a lot of experience with disc and spinal decompression surgeries and he was able to take Max in today. (Found him under vet recommendations on Dodgers list for a successful cervical IVDD surgery)
He is going to do a myelogram (im worried about this) to find the disc rupture and hopefully will do surgery today.
I would have preferred to have the neurologist do the surgery but it seemed like Max was getting worse rather quickly and I didn't want to wait until Thursday and risk further loss of function.
In terms of pain, I think the increase in dosage and frequency of meds helped somewhat but there was never a 24 hr period where he didnt cry out. And he was always holding his head low and moving slowly. I dont think his pain was ever under control:( I think not having an antiinflammatory didnt allow for proper pain management.
The surgeon said he wont put him on any NSAID after surgery, given Max's Cushings and his history with the Novox. They will administer and injection of Convenia, an antibiotic, that will last 14 days. On the estimate they also show Buprenorphine which I believe is the post op heavy pain medicine. The vet said its possible Max could come home same day?? Its not a 24 hr hospital so he said it's also possible that Max could go home with a technician who can monitor him. At the specialty hospital with the neurologist they said they usually keep dogs 3 days on average.
They also did another blood panel and found his platelets were still below normal range, but the vet wasnt concerned about it. His main concern was getting Max out of pain. His white blood cell count was also low which I dont think was the case in his last blood test last week.
I'm a mess and very worried about my baby Max.
Actually the vet just called and said it's definitely a rupture in c2-c3 and "it's a bad one." He said it was very compressed but Max did have deep pain sensation. They're going to start surgery now..
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 10, 2019 13:36:52 GMT -7
Areti, one of the criteria for surgery is pain is not in control... the reason in Max' case is he could not take any anti-inflammatory drug to work on the swelling. So the ortho surgeon going in to remove an pieces of disc material not where they are supposed to be (inside of the disc) but invading the spinal cord canal will be immediately removed. That should bring great pain relieve to Max.
The criteria to be discharged from a hospital is: --- IV pain meds have be transitioned to pill form that can be used and home AND that the pill pain relievers are fully controlling pain. --- That the dog's system is stable after surgery and safe to continue healing at home
I'd be leary of coming home the same day as the surgery. How will you contact anyone in the middle of the night should pain pills not be doing the job? At least a tech will have access to the surgeon, would be knowledgeable to communicate well with the surgeon in ensuring Max does have full round the clock pain control if pain reliever shots are warranted, etc.
As you know more post op, please do keep us posted on how Max is doing.
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Post by Julie & Perry on Dec 10, 2019 13:58:37 GMT -7
Prayers for you and Max.
I'm hoping you'll see a big improvement in pain control once that material isn't pressing on his spinal cord.
Same day discharge doesn't sound good to me. I concur with Paula. If Max should have any complications or pain issues it would be much better to have a vet tech with him.
God bless.
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Post by Michelle & Keira on Dec 11, 2019 13:39:21 GMT -7
Hi Areti,
Wishing Max the very best for his surgery. Please keep us all updated.
Take care, Michelle
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Post by Areti & Max on Dec 11, 2019 14:39:03 GMT -7
Max ended up spending the night with a tech. The surgeon texted me at night letting me know Max was up and moving around some and had not cried out in pain.
I went to the hospital 10:30am and they told me they were very pleased with his progress. He was moving his head to look around. He peed and pooped (in his kennel) and was eating and drinking water. Right before they were going to bring him to me, the doc came in the room and told me Max had just had a coughing/honking episode (he has had collapsing trachea issues) and had thrown up. They were giving him oxygen because his tongue color was not as pink as they would have liked and they wanted to watch him for a few hours. They wanted to make sure his airway was clear. So I waited.
Not 10 minutes later they told me he was doing fine, but they were going to still keep an eye on him. Maybe an hour and a half later they told me they wanted to take me to him to see if he got excited and might recreate what happened earlier.
Nothing happened. I saw Max in his kennel and he picked up his head but seemed generally lethargic. And he still had the lameness and knuckling over in his paws. Mostly the right one. Honestly he didnt seem to be doing as well as I thought or wouldve hoped but the vet and tech assured me that he was doing well, given the major surgery he just had 24 hours prior.
Doc asked me to pick him up out of the kennel, I slowly did and Max cried out a little. When I tried again he didnt cry but as I had him in my arms he was making this gurgling noise as he breathed. Before this whole IVDD episode Max would always whine juuuust a little whenever I would carry him. So I think that's what he was trying to do. The vet told me it was just from his upper airway but theres no fluid in his lungs.
I brought him home (in a plastic travel crate) and when I was picking him up out of the top of the crate, he cried out. Again just one yelp, not several like he did before surgery. I put him into his recovery pen.
His bed is right next to mine - its between the wall and my bed. Since he was in so much pain before, I tried to remain almost frozen in bed next to him so as not to wake him up and risk him trying to move.
He was laying there for about 10 minutes and I moved a little and he reacted and I guess tried to move and cried out a little again. It's less than he was doing pre-op but im not sure if this is phantom pain from the disc or surgery pain.
The vet told me they gave him a dose of bupenophrine last night but they felt they didnt need to give anymore so they only gave him gabapentin and tramadol this morning. And that's all I need to give him going forward.
50mg gabapentin every 8 hours 50mg tramadol every 8 hours
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 7.5 lbs tramadol 50mgs 3x/day gabapentin 50mgs 3x/day Vetoryl adrenosuppressant drug for Cushings]
He'll be due for the meds in an hour and a half.
Again, he's not on any antiinflammatory so I hope the gabapentin and tramadol can help with the post-op pain. I'll take him out after I feed him and will see if he shows any pain when I pick him up.
I have the vet's cell phone so I can reach him if i have any questions.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Dec 11, 2019 15:08:55 GMT -7
I am happy to hear that Max's surgery is now over. The pain you are sensing may very well be from the surgery itself and have little to do with the disk. After all, this was major surgery.
Is he breathing normally now with no coughing? Keep a close eye on that and let the vet know right away if you become concerned.
Any more vomiting?
Many dogs do not recover function immediately after surgery so the lameness and knuckling may take some time to heal. The swelling of the surgery itself can cause this. By two weeks the surgical swelling will be gone and you will get a better idea of how Max is recovering.
Please do not hesitate to call your vet if you feel Max is in any pain at all. Pain only slows the healing process.
I am concerned that his bed on top of your mattress may cause too much movement. Is your carrier small enough that you could put him in that on your bed? These are usually quite stable. That way you could keep him safely on the bed with you.
What did your surgeon say about crate rest and PT? Most surgeons want 4 weeks of crate rest, but some want more and some a little less. The post-op crate rest is to allow the surgical site to heal.
Please keep us up to date as Max continues to recover.
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Post by Areti & Max on Dec 11, 2019 18:17:26 GMT -7
The gurgling has subsided but he's doing the honking - almost sounds like snoring - on and off, mostly off. I gave him his meds and fed him with no problem. He didn't sit up for the feeding. I fed him by hand as he laid there. He sat up to drink water from his bowl. Afterwards I wanted to take him outside so he could pee. When I picked him up he yelped and then started to make the loud honking noise as he breathed. I saw his reflection in the mirror and could see his mouth was open. I was trying not to hold him from his wound so I had one hand under his chest/lungs and I could feel them expanding deeply as he was making the sounds. I put him back in his bed and called the vet. He thinks it's just fluid in his nasal passage that he needs to clear out on his own. I'm so nervous about trying to take him out. Also worried that he'll fall again like he was doing pre-op except this time he'll be falling on his wound. I could try the puppy pad although he never used it. And either way I have to pick him up to take him out of the bed. I got him an orthopedic bed but it has walls so I dont want him to get out on his own. Romy- no more vomiting and I dont have him on my bed I have him next to mine. His space is between my bed and the wall but he's on the floor His instructions were strict crate rest until the end of the month at least. Then he can gradually increase activity. Should I be concerned if his breathing rate is rapid? I think he was in REM because I could see his eyelashes/eyes, cheeks and ears twitching but he was breathing quite rapidly, and then it would slow down for a bit then randomly speed back up.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Dec 12, 2019 5:34:14 GMT -7
Yelping when picked up means his pain meds are not quite right, Areti. Please advocate strongly with the vet for an adjustment in pain meds so Max can rest and heal in comfort. We usually see surgeons prescribe post-op crate rest for 4-6 weeks. We also usually see some type of physical therapy being prescribed during that time period. Did the surgeon prescribe any type of physical therapy to be done before the end of the month, such as range of motion exercise or massage? Here's our page on post-op exercises that you can go over with the surgeon for his approval as to which would be helpful for Max and when they can be started. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmTo train a dog to use a pee pad, it's helpful to add some urine from another dog or from Max or dirt from where they've peed outside on top. Always save a used piece of pee pad in a ziplock bag to use at potty time. Max can learn it is ok with you to pee on the pee pad, be sure to use the command go potty and when he does give lavish praise. I do hope that Max is feeling better today. The first few days following surgery can be difficult ones so hang in there. If you have any concerns such as pain or rapid breathing or anything else, don't hesitate to contact the surgeon. Healing prayers for Max.
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Post by Areti & Max on Dec 12, 2019 20:04:19 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie, He did not yelp in pain at all during the night nor today. what a welcome change! I was too afraid to pick him up and trigger another coughing/breathing issue like he had yesterday so I took his whole bed outside and removed the padding with Max on it and put it on the grass so he could walk off of it himself. In the morning, he fell a few times when his front leg gave out. He tried to l ift his leg to pee and fell over so he switched to a squat. The 2nd time I took him out he stuck to squatting and was able to stay up. I'm keeping the puppy pad near his bed with his own urine on it, as well as the neighbor's dog's, but Max is not using it and I dont think he wll. I think this bed-carrying method will work until I feel like he's feeling well enough to be carried again. The surgeon didn't say anything about PT but I can ask. And I think I'll definitely leave Max on bed rest for longer than the 3 weeks. It shouldn't be hard because Max loves to sleep all day anyway. I might let him start walking himself to the yard after a month so he can work on building back any lost muscle mass. He hasn't had the rapid breathing since yesterday's episode. Just some snoring noises. He would snore quite often before all of this but it's a different sound now. Im wondering if it's just irritation from the endotracheal tube. I'm now noticing the sedative effects of the medication, even though the doses were lowered. That awful pain wasn't letting any of that through before 😞 I do feel like he's walking just a little bit better than he was pre-op. I'd like to think it's the nerves regenerating but it could also be that he's just not in pain anymore and can move more easily and keep himself more stable.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Dec 12, 2019 21:04:25 GMT -7
Areti, sounds like Max is on a good path of healing and being able to do that without discomfort of post op pain! Try using a front end sling or harness to prevent him from tipping over or falling and twisting anything. DIY sweatshirt sling...can be used for front or the back legs. Use same concept with cut out leg holes in a long strip of towel: www.lyonpuffpetsit.com/htmlslp/sling.htmlWhen a dog is able to walk, often the slow and controlled PT is the walk to and from the potty place or to walk some in the house over carpet areas where their is good traction for their legs. So that could be something you could discuss with the surgeon. Controlled PT means you have a harness (no more collars) and leash to not only help with balance but to keep them from darting off and over doing things
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Post by Areti & Max on Jan 3, 2020 9:59:34 GMT -7
I wasnt sure I would come back and update but I think it's best to give all possible information.
I have been heartbroken since Dec 14.
The surgery exacerbated Max's collapsing trachea. If he had previously been at a level 2 he was at a 9 post op. The honking noises I mentioned continued intermittently and he had a couple of serious episodes of severe honking where he was clearly struggling to breathe. The morning of the 13th we rushed him to the nearest vet and he had to be intubated. He was turning blue. He spent 24 hours at the ER in an oxygen chamber. We were terrified about taking him home, because if he were to have an episode in the middle of the night there wouldnt be time to rush him to a 24 hr vet. He could suffocate to death. He had another severe episode when we went to pick him up from ER. My baby was struggling to breathe. Turning blue. He was weakened by these episodes and terrified at the ER. We made the extremely difficult decision to put him to sleep. He suffered so much. IVDD was a death sentence for Max.
Thank you all for your help
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jan 3, 2020 14:06:58 GMT -7
I am so sorry to hear of your loss of sweet Max. You did everything you could for him. My most sincere condolences to you.
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Post by Michelle & Keira on Jan 3, 2020 20:37:27 GMT -7
Areti, I am so sorry for you loss. You did your absolute best for Max. My thoughts are with you. Michelle
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Post by Julie & Perry on Jan 4, 2020 1:31:49 GMT -7
You fought so hard for your baby and did everything possible.
When you saw he was suffering you were strong enough to let him go in peace.
God bless you.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jan 4, 2020 10:15:00 GMT -7
Areti, my very sincerest of condolences to you and your family. It is hard to loose a loved one and hard to make such a kind decision in Max' situation.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Jan 5, 2020 5:29:03 GMT -7
My sincerest condolences on your loss, Areti. I'm so very sorry to hear this.
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Post by Ann Brittain on Jan 5, 2020 8:09:41 GMT -7
Making the decision to say good-bye is so hard, but doing what's best for our pets is always foremost in our minds. Please accept my condolences for the loss of your beloved Max. I know you will miss your sweet boy, Time and good memories will help cope with the pain.
Your Max was lucky to have someone who cared and did the right things for him.
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Post by Chris & Taco on Jul 25, 2020 2:15:25 GMT -7
I am so sorry to hear of your loss! I have a Chi with a collapsing trachea who needs surgery. I am very concerned and pray I make the right decision for my dog.🙁
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