PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 12, 2019 8:02:16 GMT -7
Brian, with a disc relapse just recent on 7/8, a 4 day course of Rovera, was not likely to have already resolved all swelling, so do not be disheartened.
For how many days is the start of today's course of Rovera— a 7-day course a 14-day course?
Both methocarbamol and gabapentin are at 2x/day dosing?
The purpose of laser is an adjunct to hard to control pain not being able to be managed by pain meds. That does not seem to be the case with Gracie
Another purpose of laser is to jump start nerves to begin the healing process. For Gracie you are reporting hardly noticable neuro diminishement.
If you are still wanting laser therapy, look for a mobile vet who can come to your home. Transports into the vet can be a potential for too much movement for the early re-healing disc.
The single most important care you can give is 100% STRICT crate rest 24/7 only out of suite for a very, very few footsteps at potty time. Any vet vists must be only for the things that simply can't be handled via the phone.
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Post by Brian & Gracie on Jul 12, 2019 9:09:13 GMT -7
Thanks Paula. My plan is to do 7 days on the Rovera (25mg 1x/day) with both Methocarbamol (125mg) and Gabapentin (100mg) at 2x/day and monitor as I go for pain as I can increase the frequency of the Methocarbamol and Gabapentin up to every 8 hours if pain isn't being controlled with the 2x/day schedule.
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 15lbs Rovera (carprofen) disc relapse 7/8: 25mgs 1x/day for 4 days, 7/12 STOP test √7/11 pain as of 7/12: 25mgs 1x/day for 7 days, 7/19 STOP test methocarbamol 125 mgs 2x/day gabapentin 100mgs 2x/day Pepcid AC 5mg 2x/day ]
It sounds like the benefit of laser treatment would be minimal at this point so I'll put that option aside for now. I'll try to be more careful at potty breaks and stick with the 100% crate rest which I've been doing all along.
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Post by Brian & Gracie on Jul 16, 2019 9:47:30 GMT -7
Overall Gracie is doing well, but I'm coming to the conclusion that most of what I've been perceiving as pain is really just anxiety and frustration being crate-bound. I can tell because this pattern plays itself out regularly: She seems very anxious like she's in pain (light panting, extra drooling, and whining noises), so I think maybe she needs a potty break. Then when I take her out into the yard and set her down with her leash on she's like a whole new dog - happy tail wag, taking in the breeze, very relaxed head and ear posture, and she wants to walk all over the place and I have to try and gently reign her in a bit. Her walk is as sturdy as its been since she went down, I think perhaps even slightly improved (she's starting to want to pull against my leash which of course I try to prevent, but it just shows she's getting some strength and stability in her core). Then anxiety resumes within a minute or two (if not immediately) after putting her back in the crate.
Having said that, I do think pain is a factor somewhat because I'll notice occasionally a yip that appears to be in direct response to a certain movement she'll make like a bend or stretch trying to grab a piece of food for example (but those instances of yipping are pretty rare).
Sorry that this is kind of a wordy rant, but just wanted to put this out there in case there's any thoughts that may be helpful.
Quick medication update: Since 7/12 I've been doing the ▼Gabapantin and ▼Methocarbamol every 8 hours and I just backed that down to every 10 hours starting today. So far so good, she's been much calmer today so far than previous days. The other medications, Rovera and Pepcid, continue as previously stated (Rovera 1x/day, Pepcid 2x/day)
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit 15lbs Rovera (carprofen) disc relapse 7/8: 25mgs 1x/day for 4 days, 7/12 STOP test √7/11 pain as of 7/12: 25mgs 1x/day for 7 days, 7/19 STOP test _pain _neuro methocarbamol 125 mgs 2x/day gabapentin 100mgs 2x/day Pepcid AC 5mg 2x/day ]
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 16, 2019 10:27:28 GMT -7
Brian, with the test stop of Rovera to be on 7/19, then would be the time to stop pain meds or back them off. Which is your vet's preference- backing off or full stop of pain meds on Fri 7/19?
It may well be anxiety with some yipping pain, the test stop will give you the answer. We'll be watching for your opionion on pain signs as the test stop of Rovera takes place.
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Post by Brian & Gracie on Jul 23, 2019 19:00:01 GMT -7
Thanks Paula, the plan is for a full stop of meds on 7/19.
Quick update. Gracie is doing great. No pain, plenty of rest, and walking normal. In hindsight, I don't think there was a relapse. I think she got to a point where she was just going crazy being in the crate and was whining, yipping, drooling and doing all sorts of things that mirror pain symptoms. That, and also, even before she got hurt she's so skiddish that she would regularly yip just at anything that was remotely startling to her. I've moved her crate and adjusted my schedule so that I'm home more of the day and she's keeping calm and happy.
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Post by Brian & Gracie on Aug 8, 2019 18:27:20 GMT -7
Well its been 8 weeks since Gracie went down and she's back to normal now. In hindsight I feel confident that there was no relapse or reinjury along the way - just some difficulty adjusting to the crate long-term. I'll be keeping a close eye on her and keeping her inside in the laundry room as much as possible, especially the next few weeks. Gracie is finally back to enjoying a bit more freedom, so thanks everyone for your help!!
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724
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Post by Marjorie on Aug 9, 2019 5:19:54 GMT -7
Brian, please don't be too anxious to allow Gracie freedom just yet. You believed she was in pain on 7/9 and you said you could tell she didn't feel well and in fact the vet restarted all meds based on the pain that Gracie was showing. If in fact she was in pain on 7/9, that means the disc tore more and that means another 8 weeks of strict crate rest needs to be done from that date to allow the re-torn disc to heal and form secure scar tissue.
You have two choices:
1. Assume that the yipping and not feeling well that you saw on 7/9 was due to unhappiness with crate rest and allow Gracie more movement of the spine. If you're wrong and the yipping was in fact due to pain from a re-torn disc and too much movement is allowed before the disc has fully healed, Gracie's not-yet-healed disc could tear once again and she'd be back to square one, once again in pain, once again on meds and once again starting the 8 weeks of strict crate rest. Even worse, she can sustain more nerve damage - even paralysis.
2. Be cautious and continue with the strict crate rest until 9/2. Even if you were incorrect when you thought she was again in pain and not feeling well on 7/9 and it was only due to unhappiness with crate rest, NO HARM will come of continuing strict crate rest for another few weeks. You can then rest assured that you are giving the damage disc sufficient time to heal and form secure scar tissue so movement can once again be gradually reintroduced.
Please take the cautious, safe route by continuing strict crate rest until 9/2. It would be a terrible shame to see Gracie have a relapse and her condition worsen.
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Post by Brian & Gracie on Aug 13, 2019 11:30:54 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie for taking time to articulate a cautious approach. Posts like yours remind me of what a valuable resource this forum provides. I have kept in communication with my vet up to and including just this past week, speaking in detail about Gracie's environment. The vet advised keeping Gracie in a location where her movement can be monitored and minimized for a couple more weeks, so I am keeping Gracie in an enclosed area about 3x3 where she can be watched and monitored (I even have a baby cam for when I'm away). She lays there sleeping most of the day and when she moves its just to drink some water or reposition herself. In terms of spinal movement, it is indeed minimal. In the crate, she tends to "work" at getting attention and trying to convince me she needs yet another potty break, or food, or attention, etc... in her 3x3 baby gate area she just sleeps all day, which is perhaps for the best.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Aug 13, 2019 13:37:24 GMT -7
A baby gate confining Gracie to a very small area is fine. The goal is just to keep footsteps to a minimum and you have. Many of our members have used ex-pens or pack and plays also. For some dogs this works better because they feel less confined. If the space is to big rolled up towels around the perimeter will work to make it smaller.
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Post by Brian & Gracie on Sept 4, 2019 12:12:31 GMT -7
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Sept 4, 2019 13:10:48 GMT -7
Congratulations on graduation day! Since Gracie is coming off weeks of crate rest she will need to gradually build up muscles and stamina. We have some info on ways to do that here:
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Post by Julie & Perry on Sept 4, 2019 16:19:28 GMT -7
Woohoo!!! Congratulations, you did it!!
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