PaulaM
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Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 4, 2019 16:06:09 GMT -7
Sam, to add a picture as Romy describes you would not be able to do that in the "Quick Reply" area. Instead choose either of the "REPLY" buttons to create a post with enhancements and the ADD IMAGE TO POST button.
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Post by Donna & Daisy Duke on Jun 5, 2019 18:28:31 GMT -7
I am following Peanut Butters post because our little girl has surgery the same day. I agree with you this is a very stressful situation. I am exhausted and question myself everyday. Am I expressing enough, am I doing too much or not enough? Shew my mind is going s mile a minute. If it helps our Daisy is not showing any signs of walking either. We are optimistic and trying to keep our hopes up. My prayers are with you and peanut.
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jun 6, 2019 5:35:58 GMT -7
So peanut threw up this morning. I feel an idiot because I think its my fault. I didn't realise antacids should be given 2 hours before or after gabapentin.
[Moderator's Note. current meds. 15lbs prednisone 2.5mgs 2x/day for 5 days, then further taperings gabapentin 50 mgs 2x/day tramadol 30 mgs 2x/day Prazosin 2mgs 2x/day Amlodipine for blood pressure Pepcid AC Prilosec 5mg 1x/day ]
Should I be staggering any of his other meds? I don't want to be making him sick.
I gave him 5mg pepcid AC with some chicken and 30 mins later gave him Prednisone. Can I also give him his tramadol? I realise I can't give him gabapentin until 2 hours later. Oh man My nerves are shot to hell.
I can't believe how amazing peanut is he tells me in his way he wants out to pee or poop. He was dry all last night which is good we've got a good routine of expressing etc. I did notice when I expressed he wanted to turn to the side. So I'm guessing the poor guys got tummy ache.
We see our vet tomorrow. Tomorrow will be 2 weeks since his emergency surgery.
Hi Donna and Daisy! Sorry you had surgery too. I am so grateful for the advice on this forum. It's stressful we do worry about our fur babies these little guys aretruly amazing. Every day I'm just grateful he's with us. Im definitely not giving up on this guy!
Wow! this just happened. He stretched front paws out and his back legs stretched out. Is that just a reflex?? I've seen other encouraging things like that but have dismissed it as just reflex. I'm hoping he gains deep feeling .
Thanks for the tip Paula!! Ill post some pics later.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 6, 2019 7:26:38 GMT -7
Sam are you giving both Pepcid AC and Prilosec?
The purpose of giving gabapentin separated in time from acid suppressors might be related to the body's ability to absorb gabapentin. Most Rx's, however, we see on the Forum do not call for it If your surgeon directed the 2hr spacing then, of course, you do it.
Some few dogs have been found to vomit with the use of Pepcid AC. One of the common side effects listed of Prilosec is vomiting. Any concerns, do contact your vet today to discuss. Vomiting signs are abdominal heaves, drooling. Regurgitation passive— kinda of like a burp— no stomach heaving. Regurgitation often takes place quite soon after eating.
The only spaciing is that of acid suppressors (Prilosec, Pepcid AC) to be dosed 30 mins before dosing of Prednisone. Food with prednisone is very good! The other meds, specifically the pain meds, could all be given together. You'll have to read about the blood pressure med: Amlodipine
Glad to hear he stayed dry the entire night!!!
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jun 6, 2019 8:20:48 GMT -7
Thank you so much!! I gave him some baby carrots yesterday so think I'm just going to keep him on plain food for now. Going to fast him a little then give him rice and chicken.
He isn't lethargic in fact he looks.so much better for puking and his breathing seems normal again. He's moving around in his recovery area and drinking water. I can tell he's fed up of being in there.
I really appreciate the information on his medication. Im hoping later when his tummy is settled to give him some food with his pain meds. I was giving Prilosec and forgot to give it to him last couple of days.
So I gave him rice and boiled chicken see if he keeps that down. I don't know how to get his pain meds into him if he throws up again 😕
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 6, 2019 8:32:21 GMT -7
Might want to make a change in the bland diet to things he can best digest.
Rice: Rice, even though it's bland, is very fermentable. Fermenting rice in the colon can cause gassiness.
Choose sweet potato. microwaved and mashed with the defatted chicken.
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jun 6, 2019 10:34:08 GMT -7
Oh okay yes I thought I read about that. I just don't have potatoes at home and he has been eating his kibble with little pieces of boiled chicken in it. This was the first time I have him Rice. He scoffed it down. I'm just concerned of he's in pain and I can't get those meds in him. Thanks for replying so quickly! My gorgeous Peanut Butter
Love him ❤️ Recovery area with a view 💕 Yay got some pics up thanks Paula! 💕 Jun 8, 2019 at 7:33am Post by Sam & PeanutB:We went to our usual vet yesterday because I was so concerned about peanut throwing up and his BP. Tested his BP with a with a portable quiet blood pressure monitor couldn't get a good reading. As we were talking peanut fell asleep on the vet table and they were able to consistently get 3 readings his BP averages 150. Vet said to continue giving peanut his BP meds. It's likely his BP lowered because of the BP meds but to check with Oradell vet/specialist if his meds need adjusting. He actually said he wasn't too concerned with peanuts blood pressure. The reason for his hypertension is unknown. The vet was very reassuring he read the faxed doctor's notes from Oradell animal hospital all tests came back "unremarkable" which is great. We had everything checked no indication of renal issues etc. The vet pinched peanuts back toes and he pulled back his foot. I don't think he has deep pain sensation yet but the vet seemed very positive. I've noticed when peanut stretches his front legs his back legs also stretch. When expressing him several times he has bounced up on his legs so just hoping he regains deep pain and we can get him walking again. We get peanuts stitches out next week so will ask the specialist about PT etc. We are finally feeling very hopeful it's been such a stressful two weeks and my husband and I are grateful for the support from you all.
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Post by Donna & Daisy Duke on Jun 8, 2019 17:06:20 GMT -7
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Post by Pauliana on Jun 8, 2019 18:43:35 GMT -7
Awww how precious he is! Adorable pictures! I hope he stopped throwing up..
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jun 9, 2019 6:23:02 GMT -7
Donna, Daisy is soo cute!! They look like they could have been from the same litter! Uncanny the similarities. 💕💙
Her Staples and scar look amazing. We really wish you both the very best. It's a comfort to hear how well she is doing. Peanut has his stitches out next Thursday. He is doing so much better no throwing up and back to his little perky self. -----
Yes he just threw up the one day. He's fine now. Back to his usually perky little self I'm so happy to say. He looks a little depressed so we are moving his recovery area to outside on our deck as it's going to be a beautiful cool day. We have plenty of shade from the sun.
Post by Sam & PeanutB on 20 hours ago Can anyone recommend a doggy stroller? I think it would make things much easier for me. And Peanut B.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 9, 2019 14:05:19 GMT -7
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jun 9, 2019 14:47:06 GMT -7
Oh thanks so much I didn't think to use the search feature. I will take a look tha Ms again!
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jun 14, 2019 11:41:10 GMT -7
Hi Donna Thanks for asking about us! I really appreciate that. Peanut had his stitches out yesterday. Both the surgeon and the neurologist think he will walk again they definitely feel he is regaining deep pain sensation. He is also starting to initiate peeing by himself. I am feeling better now that I'm able to get a full nights sleep and Peanut has kept dry for 3 nights in a row. It makes all the difference being able to sleep. Although yesterday when we got back from the Animal hospital we were both exhausted and slept the rest of the afternoon. Right now I'm looking for somewhere near us in NJ for him to have cold laser, acupuncture and hydro-treadmill therapy. I could take him to Oradell but am trying to see if there is anything nearer to where we live. If not, then Oradell it will be. It would just be nice to know if there are places people refer that really know about IVDD. How are you and Daisy Duke doing? I hope you are both doing okay xoxox Just an additional note: Peanuts pain meds were not renewed the surgeon said he shouldn't need them. Yet, yesterday I could see he was uncomfortable. Both neurologist and surgeon said to keep him on the blood pressure medicine for now. They want to see us in 2 weeks time. His BP medicine will run out in 5 days so I will call the animal hospital and see if they will renew the prescription (its likely theyll want us to spend more money and visit the internist to get one) or if the local vet will prescribe - which is unlikely as he didn't seem too concerned about Peanuts BP.
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Post by Donna & Daisy Duke on Jun 14, 2019 12:30:52 GMT -7
So glad to hear that they think he will walk again!! Our neurologist said the same thing about Daisy. They had their surgery the same day. Daisy just now peed on her own. She peed twice!!! She goes to see the physical therapist on the 21st. I really hope you find one that is closer for you to relieve some stress off of you and him for the drive. I don’t know if you seen my post but Daisy was acting funny with her head tilting so we took her back and he said it was her ear and now they have to sedate her and clean out her ear. Today she had a terrible rash and again I called and we were taking her in at 5:39 but it is gone so I feel your exhaustion. Maybe Peanut Butter is having high blood pressure is due to stress from the surgery it happens in humans so I am sure it could happen in animals Please keep me posted. I think of him everyday
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Jun 14, 2019 13:47:54 GMT -7
Excellent news that Peanut Butter is regaining DPS and initiating peeing. This bodes very well for future healing.
I am concerned that you are reporting discomfort. Most dogs do not need pain meds 3 weeks after surgery, but Peanut may be an exception. I don't think that saying he shouldn't need pain meds is enough if PeanutB is showing signs of pain. Consider speaking to your vet about why Peanut Butter is uncomfortable.
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jun 17, 2019 9:41:43 GMT -7
Thanks for the lovely messages! We hope Daisy head tilting is okay and her ear is better. It's so horrible when our pups go through things like this they can't tell us whats up and it's such a worry. I hope you and Daisy are getting some sleep and resting well. I think about you both often too. 💕🤗
Peanut is doing so much better. He is off all meds except the blood pressure meds. I think it was a huge ordeal for him being back at the animal hospital he was so pooped he just slept the rest of the afternoon. I think his high blood pressure is a result from being in the animal hospital and away from us and of course the huge ordeal of the surgery. I'm so happy he tells me when he needs to pee and poop and he's started initiating peepee time. I still help express him and i can tell he is controlling the peeing. He can't get it all out so I help him there. He's back to eating well and not drinking like a fish anymore.
I've have been keeping up with his daily PT routine and he doesn't like it haha that's a good sign I think. He is definitely getting sensation back in his legs and I'm not giving up on him walking again. He's back to his usual bratty self. Which makes me so happy to see. Im so so grateful for the amazing support here at Dogerslist and I'll be getting some supplies a from raising you awareness of IVDD.
💕💪🤗
I bought a doggy stroller. Now I'm really one of those dog mom's haha 😆😉
June 28th posting from another thread, moved to Peanut's thread here: I feel a bit down today. We took peanut to the surgeon and we were in and out in a flash. I'm going to make an appointment to see the neurologist since I thought he surgeon was the neurologist. Thy are taking forever to get back to me about therapy. I'm doing the exceecis at home. It looks to me as if he doesn't have deep pain. He wags his tail every now and then and yesterday he actually raised his back legs up for 3 seconds I had a treat in my pocket. I think he will walk but it will take time I'm sure. I just want to get on with the hydro treadmill therapy. I guess this is the path of the IVDD dog. Even after they are walking I'm sure we will always be worrying about them!
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jun 28, 2019 7:47:00 GMT -7
Sam, it would be good if you could post on Peanut's thread so that all information about him is in one thread. If Peanut could raise up this back legs in an attempt to move up into a stand then naturally, by definition, he must have deep pain sensation. Nerve functions come back in the classic textbook order of: ___ deep pain sensation first. Typically only a neuro or an ortho have the training and proacticed eye to correctly identify. ___ happy tail wag excuding any tail movements at potty time. Anyone can correctly ID a happy tail wag ___ bladder control returning ___ then leg movements Most post op crate rest time is for 4-6 weeks. Now that Peanut is in the 5th week, I'm wondering if he has graduated? For how many weeks did your surgeon direct for crate rest, which includes the at home PT he directed?
What are the credential acronyms of the surgeon who did the operation, since you mentioned on another thread hyou did not think the surgeon to be a specialist? General DVM, a specialist neuro (ACVIM) or an ortho (ACVS_)?
At home water therapy can be based on the same principals of water level height used in underwater treadmill therapy
The movement of the hip joints and muscles and the changes in pressure on the paws from the underwater treadmill triggers spinal cord communication with the brain. Water bouyancy makes it easier than leg movements against gravity. There is not only the potential to regrow damaged neuronal pathyways but also for neuron to muscle re-education to learn the art of walking again.
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jul 8, 2019 13:36:19 GMT -7
Thank you so much Paula I really appreciate you moving my post. I've had a lot going on and yesterday our cat died. I'm burnt out emotionally.
Apparently peanut had emergency surgery by a DVM that does IVDD surgeries. I was specifically told a neurologist would be doing the surgery and was so upset to find that was not the case. I wasnt really given any direction as to crate rest I feel just left in the air. I made an appointment right away to see neurologist and have to wait until the end of this month I'm not happy about that. I want to get on with peanuts therapy. I will definitely try the pool. He tries to stand when there's a treat in front of him and when we potty he can stand up and then he kind of stoops down to pee. I have to hold him for balance but he is getting there. He pees initially but not all. Because my back is out hubby took him out. He gets vocal when he needs to pee or poop and hubby took him out several times and peanut peed by himself. hubby said he peed like a man..whatever that means. I'm guessing he peed a lot
I have been trying other leg exercises with peanut and I'm noticing him responding to deep massage. I keep him in his recovery area when I go out. When I'm home he just wants to crawl all over the place. I don't want that so I keep him contained. I really don't know if I'm doing the right thing.
I just bought a foldable dog pool on Amazon.
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Marjorie
Moderator~
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,722
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Post by Marjorie on Jul 8, 2019 15:53:13 GMT -7
I'm so very sorry to hear about the loss of your cat, Sam. My condolences. We usually see surgeons prescribe crate rest for 4-6 weeks and it's been that now. We have a page with post-op exercises that I can give you the link to but we do recommend that the exercises be run past the surgeon prior to starting them. I would call the hospital where the surgery was performed and insist that someone go over what PT can be started at this time. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/massagepassiveexercises.htmYou can use a sling to support his hind end when taking out to potty. You can use a tie, a long scarf or an ace bandage. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/IVDDcourse/slingwalk.jpg
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jul 22, 2019 8:19:46 GMT -7
Thank you Marjorie I really appreciate the information and comfort. It's been a trying time but we seem to be doing well. We see the therapist on Wednesday and Neurologist next week.Just recently...well the past week...after peanuts excersises he starts kicking. I'm sure this is just a reflex. But it made me happy to see. When I take him out to pee his back legs stretch and he also been able to stand up a little better on his own without me holding him. It's not for long he flops over. Every now and then he lifts his back legs up by himself and stands up briefly. I'm taking this as good news I'll take anything. I got his pool and filled it up to the point where his back feet touch the bottom of the pool. He looks so happy that he can move around without dragging. I use a treat and we walk circles in the pool. He isn't really using his legs but I feel like at least his muscles are getting a workout. Here is a little video of his legs moving after excersises
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 22, 2019 10:01:35 GMT -7
Sam, is Peanut sleeping when doing those leg movements. If dreaming and moving his leg that would be an excellent sign of the body self repairing nerve so that brain messages can travel to the legs.. Underwater treadmill can be a most excellent means of helping a dog to learn to walk again. The bouyancy of the water PLUS the floor moving underneath triggers the legs to move if they have that ability. Dogs who can't yet walk on land can in the water! Let us know what the rehab vet says.
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jul 22, 2019 12:12:23 GMT -7
Hi Paula,
Yes peanut is asleep when his legs are moving. He dreams and we can tell he is running in his sleep, they are not quite like the other dogs yet but they do move. Will definitely let you know what happens Wednesday! Thanks for moving us to the graduate forum! So don't have a clue to all that stuff.
Hope you all stay well and safe there are massive thunderstorms coming on the east coast with winds of 70mph. Stay safe! Xoxo
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,493
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Post by PaulaM on Jul 22, 2019 16:11:01 GMT -7
Sam, nice to hear his dreaming brain is sending leg movement directives to his limbs!! Now is a good time to be determining how you are going to ease back into more normal activity at graduation. The idea is to gradually give more freedom under controlled conditions. Not free reign of the house and yard immediately! LOL Take a look at our information and then come up with a plan to gradually increase activity over about a month's time following the end of crate rest. Also check out how to teach four paws on the floor! www.dodgerslist.com/literature/AfterCrateRest.htmNow is the perfect time if you haven't already to make those home modifications so that you can reduce the stress on the spine in the future. No more stairs, ramps up to furniture, or blocking furniture all together. All those ideas and more are in this link: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htm
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jul 23, 2019 6:36:43 GMT -7
Oh that's absolutely fantastic thank you Paula! We have very low furniture inside the house but we will need to block off the patio furniture. Hubby has made ramps and we have the stairs gated off. He made 2 ramps for them to get to their potty area and in the yard. We got rid of our platform bed and have the mattress on the floor. I think we are going Japanese style lol.
Thanks again for everything. Looking forward to tomorrows therapy consultation.
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Post by Donna & Daisy Duke on Jul 23, 2019 8:19:50 GMT -7
So glad to hear and see Peanut is making progress. Such great accomplishments so far!! He will be up and walking soon. Daisy is walking at times and is still wobbly but they say that comes in time. She gets tired easy so will drag herself when she does. We still work with her at home and she goes to therapy once a week!! She still goes to work with me every day I don’t keep her In the crate she lays on a blanket in the office when I have to see patients and she is happy.
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jul 24, 2019 13:06:52 GMT -7
That's fantastic news Donna!! I'm so happy to hear about Daisy. We start therapy next week 2 times a week for a month and then a review. I have a list of exercises from the therapist to do at home. He is so pooped from today he did so well and was responsive but she still couldn't tell if peanut has deep pain. I think it's more.of.a reflex although once done with therapy today we tickled his back feet (he fell asleep on his side on the floor) and he groaned he wasn't happy lol Here is the list....
He will be having water treadmill therapy next week and I'll send video 😊 For now it looks like we've got a lot of work ahead of us! Thanks for the support and advise. 🤗🐾💕
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Post by Donna & Daisy Duke on Jul 25, 2019 17:31:39 GMT -7
I have not figured out how to upload a video of Daisy!!! Have you seen the neurologist yet? He should be able to tell you if he has deep pain sensation. I didn’t think Daisy did but our neurologist said she did. I did ROM with Daisy a lot. They told me to tickle her toes all over and in between and she would jerk which was a good sign and to do it whenever I could. Also crazy but they told me to hold the tail where it attaches and pull on it for 30 seconds and let it go it stimulates the nerves to the brain. There are so many exercises I can’t explain them all. They have me sitting her on my leg and my husband holds a treat and she lifts up to get it. Her next visit we will discuss her progress and if we want to continue or not. That is going to be a hard decision as she does walk but wobbly. So glad the hard part is over though it was so stressful and a lot of work not to mention the cost!!!
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Jul 25, 2019 20:28:54 GMT -7
Thanks so much Donna. The excersises we have are a lot I think. When I roll the tip of his tail amazing things happen. The very end of the boney part of his tail. He's actually been standing up! I think it's all reflex I keep hoping the neurons make new pathways so that he can walk. He had stage 5 IVDD and I really don't think he has deep pain sensation. Although, it will be interesting to see what the neurologist says. My vet says he will get it back I just hope he can walk some even if it's wobbly. I am really happy that my therapist knows all about Dodgerslist and was adamant I did not let peanut drag himself all over the house. She is happy I don't let him drag himself all over and crate him or put him in the stroller when we are not exercising. I do sit on the floor with him and pet/ full body massage him ( man is he spoiled!! Lol). Anyway she did not advocate using a cart until a certain time has passed for therapy where she will collaborate with the neurologist. I'm so grateful my husband told.me to get pet insurance we have healthypaws and they have paid out for nearly everything. Otherwise I don't know how we could have afforded anything.
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Post by Sam & PeanutB on Aug 26, 2019 9:58:45 GMT -7
He is doing well. Still no deep pain sensation that I can see but every now and then he wags his tail (and it's not because he's pooping!! I've made that mistake a few times) he lifts his back legs up occasionally especially after therapy sessions. I think the most he will able to do is spinal walking but I'm not giving up on the little guy. I've got a little therapy room in the basement at home for hi and I roll him on an inflatable yoga ball it's easier for me to do some of the exercises on his back legs. I'll post a pic of it later.
We are coming to the end of the 5 week PT and see the therapist Wednesday. She will be able to give more of a comprehensive assessment and I'm sure we will continue with PT. The therapy techs noticed that he does lift himself up and every week I notice him moving his own legs voluntarily. I keep up hope maybe the nerves will heal in time and who knows one day he might be able to walk by himself.
How is sweet Daisy doing? 💕🤗
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Post by Julie & Perry on Aug 26, 2019 14:38:07 GMT -7
If Peanut butter wags his tail for happy talk or a treat, he has deep pain sensation.
He sounds like he's making good progress. Don't be discouraged.
It could take months or even up to a year to see how well he'll heal.
My Nala took about 6 months after surgery to walk well.
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