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Post by Patti & Casper on Mar 17, 2019 18:26:05 GMT -7
New member looking for advice.  i have two Chiweenies, both two-years-old. My boy Casper has had a few incidents that might be early signs of back issues, but I’m not sure. First, when he was around eight months old, an acquaintance of my brother nearly shut him in the door, against his side. He seemed fine, but I noticed he would skip his back leg a bit during walks. That stopped happening and he had no other symptoms, and the vet said he seemed fine. Last Halloween he was then one year, eight months. While playing with a ball, his leg got caught in a blanket. He yelped, then barked and barked at the ball, and never “forgave” it. This winter, he walked in from the yard with his back arched, then hid behind the bed. He was better later, and I took him to the vet the next day. She felt all down his back and said he moved away a bit at one spot, and she thought he might have a little pain. Gave him pain meds. He took them, then all was fine. Today [3/18], he was jumping after bubbles and yelped, then attacked my brother’s Yorkie (but didn’t hurt him), still, it seemed pretty extreme. He was panting after, but settled down. I’ll watch him closely over the next few days and take him to the vet, maybe anyway - not sure? So, I have plastic steps at my couch and chair in the living room, two sets at my bed. Should I replace these all with ramps? Should I get a ramp built for my front steps where he gets access to the yard? I have back yard access with no steps but can’t use it past 8 p.m. or before 9 a.m. due to complaining neighbor about barking. Her house’s master bedroom is at that end of the yard. I just had a fancy, chip-reading dog door installed at the front door, with a step up to it and one down from it, then there are the three front porch steps, so that might be I’ll advised? Ugh. So am I overreacting, thinking I need to make these changes? Does this sound like early signs of back problems? My other Chiweenie, Pablo, is fine. Last, if Casper seems good tomorrow, do I go ahead with his dog walk? He has gained some extra weight over the winter - not tons, but is a little overweight, about 12 pounds. He gets home cooked food approved by the vet and carefully made. Thanks for any advice, and preventative suggestions. |
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Marjorie
Moderator~ 
Member since 2011. Surgery & Conservative
Posts: 5,724 
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Post by Marjorie on Mar 18, 2019 4:54:10 GMT -7
Welcome to Dodgerslist. My name's Marjorie, what's yours? So glad you’ve joined us all. We’ve got valuable information we’ve gleaned from the vets Dodgerslist consults with and our own experiences with IVDD since 2002 to share with you. Any time you suspect that your dog may be having a disc episode, it's vitally important that you immediately crate them to protect their spine from damage and then take them to a vet ASAP to be examined. It sounds as though Casper had quite a bit of pain exhibited by his yelp and then attacking his brother (unless that's usual for him when he gets excited) and the panting could have been from pain, too. I've always felt that it's better to be over cautious than not cautious enough. How is he doing today? Is he still showing signs of pain? Signs of pain to be aware of: ☐shivering, trembling ☐yelping when picked up or moved ☐reluctant to move much in crate such as shift positions or slow to move ☐tight tense tummy ☐can’t find a comfortable position ☐Arched back ☐ Holding front or back leg flamingo style not wanting to bear weight ☐head held high or nose to the ground ☐Not their normal perky selves? Full pain relief is expected in 1 hour and stays that way dose to dose. If not in control your vet needs to know asap to adjust meds. Should this be a disc episode, you'll need an anti-inflammatory to resolve the swelling pressing on the nerves of the spine, pain meds to mask the pain and a stomach protector to protect against the side effects of the anti-inflammatory. If this is a disc episode, there will need to be 8 full weeks of strict 100% 24/7 crate rest. For any breed of dog that is prone to be born with IVDD such as a Chiweenie, there should be no going up or down steps/stairs. Ramps should be placed over all steps or the dog should be carried up and down stairs/steps. Also no jumping on or off of furniture. Furniture should be blocked with pillows or furniture blockers. More information on how to make your home back friendly: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/protectback.htmPlease let us know what the vet says after the examination. If this is IVDD, please advise as to what meds were prescribed, giving the name, dosage in mgs and frequency given. If you're given a diagnosis of IVDD or even if the vet suspects IVDD, please keep Casper strictly crated for a full 8 weeks and please let us know as we have much more information to share with you about treatment. I hope all is well with Casper. |
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Post by Patti & Casper on Mar 18, 2019 9:47:56 GMT -7
Hi Marjorie. Thanks for the reply. My answers are inline with your questions/comments below.
He is generally fine today, although a bit subdued. It's hard to tell if that's normal though, since he has been quieter than usual over the last month or so. I assumed it was the effect of winter inactivity, and he is always pretty quiet while I'm working (I work from home). He perks right up and plays with his "brother" Pablo as soon as I get up for a break.
As far as the attack goes, there was one other time that I described originally, where he got mad at the ball involved when he was hurt, so I think that was his reaction, to take it out on his "cousin" who was there, playing too.
As far as signs of pain, nothing at all except this one thing: When acting like his normal self, like prancing around and getting my attention or playing with Pablo, he will turn and sort of "air bite" at his rear/back a bit.
Wow. That's big, but I'll look everything over and work on it step-by-step.
I'll report back after his appointment. Thank you!
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PaulaM
Moderator. 
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 18, 2019 10:31:38 GMT -7
Hi, my name is Paula, what's yours? Until you get into see your vet with ANY suspicion of a disc problem it is prudent to immediately crate your dog. The crating is to prevent a damaged disc from worsening and then doing severe damage to the spinal cord. Carry Casper to and from the potty place....do all you can to limit neck and back movement. No playing with other dogs....just restricted environment of the recovery suite. www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingdisc.htmwww.dodgerslist.com/literature/CrateRRP.htm |
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Post by Patti & Casper on Mar 21, 2019 8:06:20 GMT -7
Name is Patti. Thanks for this. Will work on it.
Update:
Casper had his vet appointment on Tuesday. The vet said that it was muscular, not spinal. She tested his back legs for responses / recovery when moved in various positions, and said that he would show quite different results if his spine had damage. Whew!
So, his treatment is one month of somewhat limited activity–no steps, no roughhousing with his brother, no tug-of-war, no walks (!!! :/ ), no jumping; then also he has Deramaxx (1/2 of 12 mg tablet, once every 24-hours until gone) for pain and it is also an anti-inflammatory, then Methocarbamol muscle relaxant, which she said wouldn't make him woozy, and it doesn't (500 mg 1/4 tablet every 8 hours until gone).
[Moderator's Note. Please do not edit
12 lbs
Deramaxx as of 3/21: for 14 days stops April 4
methocarbamol 125mgs 3x/day
no GI tract protector Pepcid AC on board! ]
He seems great. Hard to keep him down since he's a feisty little fella, but we're doing well. His brother, Pablo, however, is seriously missing his walks. I think I'll take them for a drive before the end of the day.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 21, 2019 8:34:24 GMT -7
Patti, a dog can have a mild case of a disc episode where there is just pain only and no neuro deficits. Really makes quite a challenge for a vet to diagnose. So your vet saying it was muscular simply because she could not observe any neuro dysfunction may or may not be true. Dachshunds and Chi's are breeds well known they can be born with IVDD (intervertebral disc disease) so the breed immediately creates suspicion the maybe cause of pain. Only a very expensive $1500+ MRI can prove a disc episode. So when not sure, that is the reason especially when meds are on board to crate to protect a possible disc issue just in case this is the beginnings of a disc episode. Just something for you to consider based on what you reported from your vet. If she mentioned other things that helped her to diagnose muscular, we do not know. For a muscular issue she is using some big gun disc episode meds. --- for how many days is the Deramaxx?
--- do you have Pepcid AC on board for the extra stomach acids Deramaxx will cause?--- long as there are big gun meds on board that would hide pain, even hide pain due to a supposed disc issue, it is VERY, VERY prudent to act like this maybe, might be a disc episode — a mild one of pain only. The crating would be to prevent a mild disc problem from exploding into a serious situation where the spinal cord would then be involved. Dr Larry Carpenter DVM MS (Ortho surgeon) ACVS explains and cautions veterinarians about conservative treatment during a disc episode. In Casper's case there is no real proof one way or the other. Deramaxx is a non-steroid anti-inflammatory (NSAID). Steroids are also often used with a disc episode, because, they too are anti-inflammatory drugs. As long as Deramaxx and methocarbamol are on board, if it were my dog, I'd be conscientious about STRICT crate rest. Carrying to and from the potty place till off of all meds. Monitoring that no neuro dysfunction starts to arise. As damage to the spinal cord increases, there is a predictable stepwise deterioration of functions that happens with a disc episode. When nerve healing begins, often it follows the reverse order. 1. Casper: Pain caused by the tearing disc & inflammation in the spinal cord 2. Wobbly walking, legs cross 3. Nails/toes scuffing floor 4. Paws knuckle under 5. Weak/little leg movement, can't move up into a stand 6. Legs do not work at all (paralysis, dog is down) 7. Bladder control is lost. Leaks on you when lifted. Can no longer sniff and then pee on that old urine spot outdoors. 8. Tail wagging with joy is lost 9. Deep pain sensation, the last neuro function, a critical indicator for nerves to be able to self heal after surgery or with conservative treatment. If surgery is not an option (for whatever reason) then the best option is conservative therapy. Surgery can still be successful in the window of 12-24 hours after loss of deep pain sensation. Even after that window of time, there can still be a good outcome. Each hour that passes decreases that chance. Precious hours can be lost with a vet that gets DPS wrong. Trust only the word of a neuro (ACVIM) or ortho (ACVS) surgeon about DPS. So if surgery is an option for your family get to a neuro or ortho asap. A quick overview of conservative treatment vs. a surgery: www.dodgerslist.com/literature/healingsurgery.htm#surgeryVSconservativePlease keep us updated that Casper's pain is being managed by methocarbamol UNTIL Deramaxx over the course of a number of days would be able to get swelling in tissue resolved. Here are the things you would know when off of all meds and there is no pain: --- wherever the swollen tissue was (in the spinal cord area OR muscle tissue somewhere) that swelling is gone as there is no more pain. --- you would still not know if a very, very mild disc episode or if some pulled muscle --- you would know that is simply a judgement call to decide if to continuing crating in case there is suspicion it is a disc problem OR to do a very, very gradual introduction back to physical activity. Monitoring closely for any hint of pain surfacing or dreaded beginnings of neuro diminishment that would likely be due to a disc problem. Please let us know how Casper is doing with his meds. |
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Post by Patti & Casper on Mar 21, 2019 9:41:44 GMT -7
Thank you!
Deramaxx - Two weeks.
What is dosage / usage of Pepcid AC?
I'll consider all of this. I'm also already considering getting an MRI the next time he is sedated – perhaps when he gets his teeth cleaned, then, I'd know the status of his spine. I have pet insurance, but not sure if it would reimburse, which would be great – will have to do a little investigating.
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PaulaM
Moderator.
Member since 2007: surgery, conservative . Montana, USA
Posts: 19,528
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Post by PaulaM on Mar 21, 2019 11:20:17 GMT -7
The risk of an MRI is ONLY to rule out other disease, prior to a surgery in order to plan the procedures. MRI's are not a thing just to know at that point in time. Read your pet insurance with a magnifying glass so you know what you have purchased. Any suggestion of a possible disc episode and they likely will not cover a "pre-existing" condition. The usual with a diagnosis is and order of 1, 2 3 diseases it "might" be. #1 is the one they target and approach in their treatment til they determine is may be another disease. Did your vet give the oK to use Pepcid ? All anti-inflammatories (steroids or NSAIDs like Deramaxx) are involved with stimulating gastric acid secretion causing GI upset of not eating, vomit, red or black bloody diarrhea which can quickly lead to bleeding ulcers or life threatening holes in the stomach or intestine. Pepcid AC (famotidine) suppresses stomach acid production. Phrase the question to your vet in this particular way: "Is there any medical reason my dog may not take Pepcid AC?" (doesn’t need it, we wait til there is problem…are NOT answers to your question!)
If there are no medical issues, we follow vets who are proactive in protecting the stomach Knowledge about each med your dog takes is the added layer of protection. Good link to bookmark and read about Pepcid AC: www.marvistavet.com/pharmacy-center.pml
The usual dose during a disc episode is Pepcid AC (famotidine) for dogs is 0.44mg per pound 30 mins before the anti-inflammatory and thereafter every 12 hours. Give the anti-inflammatory with a meal as added protection. www.1800petmeds.com/Famotidine-prod11171.html
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Post by Patti & Casper on Apr 13, 2019 12:49:21 GMT -7
UPDATE: He has been off of his medication and appears to be fine. However, he has had x-rays. Long story, the x-rays were not for his back. I thought he might have eaten a sharp piece of plastic, and took him to the emergency vet. No plastic found and no problems, except they thought his heart looked globular. So, he went to his regular vet for follow up x-rays of his heart, which showed the globular appearance as positional, and his heart size is within normal range; a bit of edema but the vet believes it is because of very, very high pollen currently. BUT, when measuring his heart, she used his vertebrae as a reference, and saw that he has hemivertebrae – right side, just past his shoulder. She said it was likely a birth defect. There is a traveling specialist in both heart and spine that comes to the office sporadically. She will ask him to review the x-rays. I asked if that means that I definitely have to restrict his jumping after his brother, etc., and she said no. He's only 2-years-old, so is real playful. What do you all think? Is this something that's common to either dachshunds or chihuahuas? I don't see it here at all but this is the set from the er vet. the new ones look different.  ----------------- Mar 22, 2019 Post by Patti & Casper at 6:19amThe vet said okay to the ✙ Pepcid, and I started giving it to him yesterday afternoon. She said 10mg, but I gave him 5. Thank you for that information – I would hate for him to have unnecessary stomach upset, etc., so am very glad to know this. He is doing absolutely great. No sign of pain that I can see at all, even if I very gently feel all down his spine. |
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 13, 2019 13:48:06 GMT -7
I am very glad that the vet found that Casper had not eaten plastic.
Hemivertebrae is a birth defect more commonly seen in short-nosed dogs with corkscrew tails. Pugs, French and English bulldogs and Boxers are dogs in which hemivertebrae is more commonly found. Does your vet think that his symptoms are caused by the Hemivertebrae and not IVDD?
Here at Dodgerslist, the disease we know well is IVDD so I am reluctant to give advice on treatment for hemivertebrae. With IVDD the disc material might be reabsorbed over time so that it is not pressuring the spinal cord, but the skeletal deformity of hemivertebrae will be permanent without surgery. However, I know mild case can sometimes be treated conservatively with exercise restrictions and anti-inflammatories to help reduce the inflammation that contributes to the pressure on the spinal cord.
I am not sure about the insurance question you just posted.
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Post by Patti & Casper on Apr 13, 2019 13:54:00 GMT -7
I’m not sure how that got in there. I just thought I’d post the X-ray which actually appears pretty good. I didn’t add anything about insurance.
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Post by Romy & Frankie on Apr 13, 2019 14:32:08 GMT -7
I don't really see it either. Do you have the latest one to compare it to?
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Post by Patti & Casper on Apr 14, 2019 9:19:07 GMT -7
I don't have the latest x-rays. Thanks for the support – great site and much appreciated!
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